Topic: Liverpool's ticket office still woefully behind

[Redman0151]

The club has spent the last few years making HUGE strides forward both on and off the pitch. I don't think anybody can deny the transformation across the club has been incredible, but 1 area of the club has continued to have an embarrassing string of cock ups and delays.

Whether it's the woefully inadequete ticket system that routinely kicks people out for no reason, falters during the bulk sales, or the club simply taking the absolute piss releasing details for aways despite telling people not to book travel until they have a ticket, with absolutely 0 transparency or communication on ticket/credit breakdowns, where tickets are going, or why they take so long to release them. To this day i'm still waiting for Ludogorets and West Ham tickets that never showed up and the club had no idea where they went.


Earlier in the season, they released info for PSG away TWO WEEKS before the game took place (well 15 days to be precise), as usual they give the generic "We give out the info as soon as we have it, it's the other clubs fault" they always do. We know it's bollocks when they say this, because time after time after time we are given the information last minute, the sales are ridiculously late, whilst other clubs don't have this problem.

United, who have a top class ticket office, are playing PSG in the last 16. Here's a link to their away details: https://www.manutd.com/europeanaway

They released their information weeks ago, over 2 months before the game was due to take place, and have already boxed off all the sales. How were their ticket office able to get that info so early? I have no doubt we will be waiting a while for our Bayern details.

Not only that, but they give a FULL breakdown of how many fans are on each credit, complete transparancy. Why won't our club do that? Scared of the fans realising how many tickets are funneled off to sponsors, "mates" etc...? I see zero reason otherwise to keep this information hidden. Not only that, but United have in the past went to bat for their fans when they get ripped off around Europe, they fight back and subsidise their own fans tickets at the expense of the other teams' fans. Sometimes our club will grumble about how it isn't acceptable, but ultimately they do fuck all, the ticket office don't care.

People have brought this up to the club time and time and time again, but for whatever reason nothing ever changes, there's no accountability. People have mentioned it to Tony Barrett and he's pointed out it's not his job, there's no direct line of communication between the ticket office and the fans.

The better and better the club gets as it moves forward, the more and more the Ticket Office continues to stand out as an embarrassment and reminder of how far we used to be behind the scenes compared to the other top clubs.

I wish the Echo or somebody would draw some attention to it, because right now it feels like we're just shouting at a brick wall. Those of us who go to European aways in particular are a tiny minority, and it feels like we're at the mercy of this shite office time and time again hearing the same excuses and generic responses with 0 change.

[carl123uk]

Why do you think the club don't do this?

[ABJ]

Why do you think the club don't do this?

So that corporates/sponsors have as much time as possible to decide if they want tickets or not. Then around 2 weeks before the match, however many are left will go on sale to the ‘normal’ supporters.

If they ever did play the numbers game, it would be blatantly obvious to everyone that tickets are being siphoned off in large numbers so therefore they do not release the breakdown as to where the tickets go.

[Redman0151]

Why do you think the club don't do this?

I'd suggest the club don't want us knowing just how many tickets go to their friends and partners. Wouldn't be surprised if some get skimmed off for people in the ticket office and their mates too. As far as I know they've never given a reason why they keep these things so secret, and I doubt we ever will, so i'll assume the worst.

As for why it takes them so long, I think they just can't be arsed, it doesn't bother them, and they know we will buy them within seconds of release anyway.

I would love to be so routinely lazy and poor at my job, yet never face any scrutiny or consequences. Sadly they know we all love the club, and there's nothing we can do about it

[Always_A_Red]

Feel your pain mate - the ticket office are an absolute joke and the lack of transparency for a club of our size is unacceptable
 

[davidsteventon]

I'm right with you, but I'll add some balance.

Fans travel regardless -  a lot go just to be there and some with no intention of going the game.
Fans book in advance to get the best prices - hardly any book after announcements - and the cost is massive then if they do.
Fans buy tickets and tout them. Massive fact.
Fans buy tickets and give to friends and family. (For another thread if you think this is touting or not - a long and complicated one).
Fans buy tickets and don't even turn up. (See Napoli, Beşiktaş etc).
It will sell out anyway.
If it does not sell out - the club doesn't really win or lose does it - it's not a money maker.
Not that many people actually want to commit to Euro Aways - the market is small - it's actually more 'local' people in each country that wish to attend.

The club do put effort in. They send people over to check it all out and give us the safety notice. That's not easy to arrange. They arrange coaches where they think they are necessary. They go out of their way to ensure our safety. That's maybe less anything to do with the ticket office, but I wanted to add some balance to it all. Sometimes than can cause delays.


I do agree though - on my way to getting full European credits, having to book flights, accommodation, time off work etc in a 2 week period is beyond difficult and more frustrating when you see other clubs have the info out before us. It still is now. It frustrates me a lot.

I think as well you've got to remember that when these clubs pay LFC it's always different than Spurs or Utd. Often history can play a part any maybe the local police want to reduce allocation and our ticket office is asking for more on our behalf. Sometimes LFC are the biggest attraction in town, so the opposition might sell out their stadium, leaving us with a small allocation - smaller than say Spurs might get. They might also look at past history and see for certain countries, we rarely have 100% going.

I think the European away ticket details should be easy, but also think you've got to factor other things which we do not see.

I still get more frustrated than most though.

What would help most people is a breakdown of credits. 100 have 10 credits, 200 have 9, 500 have 8 etc etc. You can then do your own maths as to your chances of a ticket. But to be honest - most who go - will go anyway.

They could post the tickets out earlier as well. That's always a mega stress days before you leave.

[davidsteventon]

Missed your bit about Utd helping their fans. I'd agree with that. I so slightly think without them playing in Moscow we would not have had our visas paid for.
(I'm one of the rare few that went to this game and saving that £120 was really helpful and felt a bit like a family looking after you).

[davidsteventon]

Interesting that United have introduced a 'last minute returns' thing. Great idea. (Though I could see our club thinking it encourages people to travel without a ticket).

[redgriffin73]

The club do put effort in. They send people over to check it all out and give us the safety notice. That's not easy to arrange. They arrange coaches where they think they are necessary. They go out of their way to ensure our safety. That's maybe less anything to do with the ticket office, but I wanted to add some balance to it all. Sometimes than can cause delays.

Do other clubs not do this then, do you think? I mean, Utd announced their three group stage ticket sales all together within a couple of weeks of the draw in August, a friend of mine had his all boxed off before our first one had even gone on sale from memory. So do Utd not do any checks first? I seem to remember Tony Barrett saying safety was an issue in Belgrade and that resulted in less tickets on sale which is fair enough. Not trying to imply Utd are not safety conscious but it's interesting how differently they do it, maybe they could share their ideas! We're still ridiculously late announcing our sales whatever the club is doing.

At the end of the day, any kind of transparency on expected numbers and sales criteria, even if it's dependent on safety checks, would be welcome to help people work out the likelihood of getting sorted. I know a lot travel anyway like you say but there's also a lot of us who need to know for work/financial reasons etc and who will only be travelling if they're guaranteed a ticket.

The whole "don't travel without a ticket" is a joke when they know how late they leave it all.

Having said all that, I've booked Munich anyway so I'd better be sorted!

[Hightown Phil]

We'd also absolutely hate some of the things that United do with their European Away tickets so it really is swings and roundabouts.

[davidsteventon]

Do other clubs not do this then, do you think?

It's a good question. I don't know either - would be good to find out.

Very true about United sales. Be careful what you wish for sometimes. Not everything about the way do it would suit us either.

[Shauniboy]

The reason for PSG being so late according to our supporter liaison officer was that the club had to do a recce first, but then seemed shocked when he himself got the ground and discovered no turnstiles to get in. Surely when the recce was done someone would have casually mentioned that there was no turnstiles?

[Alf]

I don't think we should replicate everything the Man Utd ticket office do. But it wouldn't be difficult our ticket office to communicate what our allocation would be for Euro Aways and what the qualifying criteria will be. I think we all smelt a rat with the PSG details being published so late and I'm glad SOS/Spion Kop stepped in.

[jizzspunk]

I don't think we should replicate everything the Man Utd ticket office do. But it wouldn't be difficult our ticket office to communicate what our allocation would be for Euro Aways and what the qualifying criteria will be. I think we all smelt a rat with the PSG details being published so late and I'm glad SOS/Spion Kop stepped in.

Interested to note that United have got the same amount of tickets as our group game..I smelt the 2000 allocation mirroring our exact 2000 for Belgrade as all a bit too convenient...but im guessing now with the United news i called that wrong

[carl123uk]

Only thing they need to change imo is the announcing of credits as early as possible. If you know your in the 1st or 2nd sale you at least know you can book and have a relatively good chance in the 2nd sale.

[Tiz Lad]

I'm right with you, but I'll add some balance.

Fans travel regardless -  a lot go just to be there and some with no intention of going the game.
Fans book in advance to get the best prices - hardly any book after announcements - and the cost is massive then if they do.
Fans buy tickets and tout them. Massive fact.
Fans buy tickets and give to friends and family. (For another thread if you think this is touting or not - a long and complicated one).
Fans buy tickets and don't even turn up. (See Napoli, Beşiktaş etc).
It will sell out anyway.
If it does not sell out - the club doesn't really win or lose does it - it's not a money maker.
Not that many people actually want to commit to Euro Aways - the market is small - it's actually more 'local' people in each country that wish to attend.

The club do put effort in. They send people over to check it all out and give us the safety notice. That's not easy to arrange. They arrange coaches where they think they are necessary. They go out of their way to ensure our safety. That's maybe less anything to do with the ticket office, but I wanted to add some balance to it all. Sometimes than can cause delays.


I do agree though - on my way to getting full European credits, having to book flights, accommodation, time off work etc in a 2 week period is beyond difficult and more frustrating when you see other clubs have the info out before us. It still is now. It frustrates me a lot.

I think as well you've got to remember that when these clubs pay LFC it's always different than Spurs or Utd. Often history can play a part any maybe the local police want to reduce allocation and our ticket office is asking for more on our behalf. Sometimes LFC are the biggest attraction in town, so the opposition might sell out their stadium, leaving us with a small allocation - smaller than say Spurs might get. They might also look at past history and see for certain countries, we rarely have 100% going.

I think the European away ticket details should be easy, but also think you've got to factor other things which we do not see.

I still get more frustrated than most though.

What would help most people is a breakdown of credits. 100 have 10 credits, 200 have 9, 500 have 8 etc etc. You can then do your own maths as to your chances of a ticket. But to be honest - most who go - will go anyway.

They could post the tickets out earlier as well. That's always a mega stress days before you leave.

Sorry the bit on allocation being less for us than others is nonsense. UEFA rules clearly stipulate 5% of capacity is allocated to ALL visiting supporters

[RainbowFlick]

I think my general greatest gripe would be transparency and timeliness of announcements.

People generally know the system now - it's just really the numbers and the logistics that are more worrying at times.

That said, we'd probably take issue with the way Man United etc handle their sales too if we adopted something similar. There's always going to be winners and losers with this kinda thing sadly.

[Thomas]

It’s just massively underwhelming in every way.

Then you ask yourself why should you even have a feeling like that ? We should have zero expectation of anything being any better.

[davidsteventon]

Sorry the bit on allocation being less for us than others is nonsense. UEFA rules clearly stipulate 5% of capacity is allocated to ALL visiting supporters

If I'm wrong I'll accept it (gladly!) but from my view of our last few seasons we've not always got 100% of what we should get or have we?
The 'rumour' for Belgrade was the club asked for less on safety grounds.
That could have been our decision or could have been influenced.

[Tiz Lad]

If I'm wrong I'll accept it (gladly!) but from my view of our last few seasons we've not always got 100% of what we should get or have we?
The 'rumour' for Belgrade was the club asked for less on safety grounds.
That could have been our decision or could have been influenced.

Maybe we haven't got 100% of the full capacity, but full capacity is often reduced for champions league matches in Europe, due to some stadiums having to return areas to seated that are standing areas in domestic leagues. For example Bayern have Capacity: 75,000 (15,390 standing) so this is reduced to 70,000 for CL and Internationals.

Napoli listed as 60,000 but actually is now 55,000, so we were there or thereabouts on allocation

If the rumour on Belgrade is is true then that it the club's decision, not the fact we have been given less, and if it was it should have been clearly communicated by the club

The OP proves that both United and LFC got 2000 for PSG

This is not in anyway me defending the club and TO as quite frankly think that the way we're treated for Euro Aways is scandalous.

Based on the info highlighted in the opening post, I asked the question of Mr Barratt, Mr Moore and LFC as to who could be asked questions as to why in a like for like comparison, same opponents, same stadium, same comp, same allocation that United can have their sales completed 7 weeks before the game, yet ours were 15 days

You'll not be surprised to hear that the silence was deafening

[KOTP]

also uefa rules say what the maximum is but that is subject to being able to segregate so clubs can use that as an reason as why not give full allocation

[TeddyTime33]

United as much as I hate them do seem to have a much better away ticket process in general, both domestic and European

[KOTP]

United as much as I hate them do seem to have a much better away ticket process in general, both domestic and European

dont think there are many teams with a worse system than us!

[TeddyTime33]

dont think there are many teams with a worse system than us!

Not familiar with how other teams work but I bet you are not far off, also have to accept our tickets are also probably the hardest to get in the league both home and away so the ticket office and club have a tough job. Still amazes me how the amount of people that didnt travel to Naples but will still get credit for it!

[redgriffin73]

United as much as I hate them do seem to have a much better away ticket process in general, both domestic and European

Agree in parts, but certainly wouldn't want a random ballot brought in for aways like they have.

[TeddyTime33]

Agree in parts, but certainly wouldn't want a random ballot brought in for aways like they have.

I agree we should reward loyal fans who have been to the majority of aways throughtout the years, they should be able to experience the success we are having, however I also think we have to give opportunities for new fans to join the ladder, especially cause we know we have a problem with credit hunting and people not going on their own tickets.

[jizzspunk]

You can blame the Loyalty system for the delay game..it simply doesn't fit with efficiency..the season on season loyalty means that until one game has passed...you won't get an update on the next one..be it another group game or knockout...it you didn't buy Belgrade away then you wasn't getting Paris away for instance..but you won't know until the Belgrade game has passed..so how can they allocate to people even if the club know the allocation?

If it was a tiered system..with points allocated over a period..let's say hypothetically a fluid 5 years..then the club could put a notice out before all 3 group games as an example in Europe for what points tally is required per game....for the high points holders they could be choosey...bail out of Napoli away for instance without buying but still good for Belgrade...it then opens up the closed shop effect and gives everyone a fairer chance of something...at least Napoli away for starters...the online ticketing platform could automatically keep a running tally of your points over the fluid 5 years...so you know exactly where you are

It's a much better model surely?

[Luke 17]

We don't even need the selling details. Most of us can work out the required credits from the allocation anyway. All we literally want is them to announce the allocation as soon as they know it.

[Max100]

You can blame the Loyalty system for the delay game..it simply doesn't fit with efficiency..the season on season loyalty means that until one game has passed...you won't get an update on the next one..be it another group game or knockout...it you didn't buy Belgrade away then you wasn't getting Paris away for instance..but you won't know until the Belgrade game has passed..so how can they allocate to people even if the club know the allocation?

If it was a tiered system..with points allocated over a period..let's say hypothetically a fluid 5 years..then the club could put a notice out before all 3 group games as an example in Europe for what points tally is required per game....for the high points holders they could be choosey...bail out of Napoli away for instance without buying but still good for Belgrade...it then opens up the closed shop effect and gives everyone a fairer chance of something...at least Napoli away for starters...the online ticketing platform could automatically keep a running tally of your points over the fluid 5 years...so you know exactly where you are

It's a much better model surely?

Your argument regarding the loyalty v the tiered system doesn't really hold water as the club is fully aware of how many tickets they'll get for each match almost as soon (by a few days) after the draw has been made. The sensible thing would be to give a breakdown of how many tickets have been received and then give a breakdown of what's the expected criteria would be...that would give people time to plan and stuff and is definitely far better than what's happening now ie waiting for a few weeks before the game so they can siphon off tickets for corporates etc. I know corporate have to have their share but a little openness would go a long way in helping the "normal" fan in understanding what's going on

[jizzspunk]

Your argument regarding the loyalty v the tiered system doesn't really hold water as the club is fully aware of how many tickets they'll get for each match almost as soon (by a few days) after the draw has been made. The sensible thing would be to give a breakdown of how many tickets have been received and then give a breakdown of what's the expected criteria would be...that would give people time to plan and stuff and is definitely far better than what's happening now ie waiting for a few weeks before the game so they can siphon off tickets for corporates etc. I know corporate have to have their share but a little openness would go a long way in helping the "normal" fan in understanding what's going on

Your points are fair but to say my argument holds no water is quite ridiculous...it's the idealogy of a different model that could potentially work and improve the current situation...for all with loyalty and a chance for others without....

[Thepooloflife]

I'm with the OP on this. There appears to be no good reason why our TO cannot adopt the same system as Utd. The possible reasons mentioned as to why our TO don't do as Utd do, don't really explain that they will have the same issues, surely ? What's frustrating, and this has already been mentioned, is that representations have been made to people in the club and we also have a Fan Liaison Officer - but nothing ever seems to change. I understand the argument of those who've maybe got 'full' credits will book and travel anyway, fair play to ya (I have done it before too). But, for those of us with less credits and perhaps on the 'cusp' of getting a ticket in an allocation - it would help massively to know the allocation, the credit criteria and the numbers in each, well in advance of any sales.

[davidsteventon]

Be careful what you wish for here with Utd and other clubs.

A lot do ballots.

I go to every euro away and I follow our club like a religion that’s hard to explain to non-believers.

It’s a bit all or nothing for me.

If it essentially becomes a raffle I’ll give it up. My loyalty should be rewarded. I’ll happily give copies of hotel stays, passport stamps and flight details it’s only 5 minutes work. Could even do it through an app.

But if it becomes a raffle then not interested in half measures-so I’m keen to praise other clubs on some bits but want to be clear on other parts.

Selfish yep but I go.

I’m bored of myself here in a thread I should jump on our TO I’ve said mainly good things!

[TeddyTime33]

Be careful what you wish for here with Utd and other clubs.

A lot do ballots.

I go to every euro away and I follow our club like a religion that’s hard to explain to non-believers.

It’s a bit all or nothing for me.

If it essentially becomes a raffle I’ll give it up. My loyalty should be rewarded. I’ll happily give copies of hotel stays, passport stamps and flight details it’s only 5 minutes work. Could even do it through an app.

But if it becomes a raffle then not interested in half measures-so I’m keen to praise other clubs on some bits but want to be clear on other parts.

Selfish yep but I go.

I’m bored of myself here in a thread I should jump on our TO I’ve said mainly good things!

I agree David your loyalty should come first and be rewarded for the time and money you give to the club and I’d hate to see it taken away from those who go to majority/all aways. However the club should be able to support those with good loyalty and allow new fans a chance to build this loyalty too.   

[KOTP]

I agree David your loyalty should come first and be rewarded for the time and money you give to the club and I’d hate to see it taken away from those who go to majority/all aways. However the club should be able to support those with good loyalty and allow new fans a chance to build this loyalty too.   

the simple way to do that is stop credit hunting and a lot of ppl arent in favour of collections but its one way to cut it down collection only for a few games with the person attending and going the game getting credit rather than those that just buy would soon see credits drop so new ppl can get on the list

[PaulKS]

Its not just a random ballot for United, they do have credits and the more you have the more likely you are to be successful when you apply

So the ultra regulars are pretty much guaranteed a ticket for every away because they have the most points

I am sure if LFC ever changed the system they would take into account how many credits people have, and convert them into whatever the new system is. They will never start from scratch

[ant]

At the moment you can assign a Euro AWAY ticket you buy to a non-member of LFC attending the game, LFC couldnt give them the credit if they wanted !

And say that person was a member with no Euro AWAY credits and the club gave them a credit, how would members with not enough Euro AWAY credits to buy for that particular game feel about that ?

We all know there is no perfect loyalty/ticketing system and at the end of the day it all boils down to the cost and resources LFC are willing to put into it, to make it work for them.

[Thepooloflife]

I'm with the OP on this. There appears to be no good reason why our TO cannot adopt the same system as Utd. The possible reasons mentioned as to why our TO don't do as Utd do, don't really explain that they will have the same issues, surely ? What's frustrating, and this has already been mentioned, is that representations have been made to people in the club and we also have a Fan Liaison Officer - but nothing ever seems to change. I understand the argument of those who've maybe got 'full' credits will book and travel anyway, fair play to ya (I have done it before too). But, for those of us with less credits and perhaps on the 'cusp' of getting a ticket in an allocation - it would help massively to know the allocation, the credit criteria and the numbers in each, well in advance of any sales.

What I meant here was..... I'm not necessarily saying adopt Utd's whole system of ticket criteria, ballots etc - just the bit about giving us the information on allocation, ticket qualification criteria etc well in advance, rather than leaving it to the last couple of weeks before the game, which seems to be the case at the moment.

[redgriffin73]

At the moment you can assign a ticket you buy to a non-member of LFC attending the game, LFC couldnt give them the credit if they wanted !

Sorry, not sure what you mean by this unless I'm being a bit slow! Do you mean just passing a ticket on as you can't officially assign one to a non-member?

[ant]

Sorry, not sure what you mean by this unless I'm being a bit slow! Do you mean just passing a ticket on as you can't officially assign one to a non-member?

Sorry for any confusion, I was refering to this message by KOTP about Euro AWAY collections and credit hunting :

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=342012.msg16441290#msg16441290

You can officially assign a Euro AWAY ticket you buy to a non-member who would never get the credit from LFC for going the game !

I will amend my original post.

[redgriffin73]

^^^ Ah, got you now, thanks!