Topic: Gay Footballers

[JC the Messiah]

I really think I'm missing something with that tweet.

He's on an iPhone? He's using twitter..?

[Something Worse]

Saw this as well with the player in question saying he doesn't use an iPhone. But what's the significance? I would assume 90% or more of professioanl footballers use iPhones? Hardly narrowing it down is it?

"George" is saying he's pretending to be him for a laugh. But he tweeted that from an iPhone whereas the account is Android.

[Crimson_Tank]

"George" is saying he's pretending to be him for a laugh. But he tweeted that from an iPhone whereas the account is Android.

Maybe his account is..... bi

*gets coat*

[markedasred]

Just to reinforce Rhi's old point in this thread, as long as FIFA is giving the world cup to countries where imprisonment or the death penalty is doled out for being LGBT, why would a footballer in a top league even think of coming out?. Secondly, it is widely acknowledged across studies that the percentage of the population somewhere along the LGBT spectrum or having experienced same sex shared acts is 10%, not 5. So there ought to be twice as many players as is even discussed here. Like others in here I have a gay brother, and he is one of my favourite people. I thought a player might have been gay a few years back and showed him a video of him on a day off with a friend, and he agreed, he felt he appeared much more likely to be than I did, with his better sense of these things. I am deliberately not saying any more about the player because its none of my business publicly speculating. If FIFA does the decent thing and denies Russia and Qatar the chance to host trophy games or tournaments, i.e. has a policy it adheres to, we might see someone high level coming out and then I believe we would get a domino effect.

[El Lobo]

At the risk of sounding even the slightest bit homophobic or whatever, some jobs/vocations are just naturally more manly to the point that young gay men may well just not feel comfortable pursuing from the young age you’d need to start at.

It doesn’t stand that because 10% of the population has engaged in homosexuality that 10% of footballers have.

[Peabee]

At the risk of sounding even the slightest bit homophobic or whatever, some jobs/vocations are just naturally more manly to the point that young gay men may well just not feel comfortable pursuing from the young age you’d need to start at.

It doesn’t stand that because 10% of the population has engaged in homosexuality that 10% of footballers have.

“Manly” ?

Gay men can be “manly” too. But I agree, the stigma would likely discourage gay footballers from pursuing it as a career, hence making the actual percentage lower. 

[Sarge]

Saw this as well with the player in question saying he doesn't use an iPhone. But what's the significance? I would assume 90% or more of professioanl footballers use iPhones? Hardly narrowing it down is it?

No but its the account i was focusing on, did you read the press statement?

[Jake]

“Manly” ?

Gay men can be “manly” too. But I agree, the stigma would likely discourage gay footballers from pursuing it as a career, hence making the actual percentage lower.

While I think the way he phrased it was very clumsy, there are certain professions that openly gay or openly straight people seem to be more concentrated in. And vice versa too.

Maybe the proportions in all professions are 10% and it's just the level of welcoming and acceptance that means less people come out of the closet. Who knows.

Anyway the sooner a bunch of players come out so the debate can happen and tournaments can get stripped from bigoted lands the better.

[Bobinhood]

At the risk of seeming small minded, uncaring or whatever label you prefer, I've always found that 10% number that is commonly thrown around for many years now to be complete and total bullshit. Imo its a self serving number primarily aimed at obtaining funding/gaining or extending political status and should be treated with great skepticism. Just like every other interest group that ever existed.

I dont care what anybody's sexuality is but i dont want to fund it, basically. I can barely fund my own.

I agree sports teams are still in the dark ages, its stupid.

[CraigDS]

At the risk of seeming small minded, uncaring or whatever label you prefer, I've always found that 10% number that is commonly thrown around for many years now to be complete and total bullshit. Imo its a self serving number primarily aimed at obtaining funding/gaining or extending political status and should be treated with great skepticism. Just like every other interest group that ever existed.

I dont care what anybody's sexuality is but i dont want to fund it, basically. I can barely fund my own.

I agree sports teams are still in the dark ages, its stupid.

Fund what, exactly?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Fund what, exactly?

Glitter and rainbow fund ?


Enlighten us Bob.

[Bobinhood]

you guys are saying the gay lobby is not a political force?

fund many things. Like any other lobby. Im completely separating sexuality from the concept. Political influence eventually= taxpayer dollars, in the end. in all walks of life, throughout recorded history. How much public money did the Pride Parade in London get this year? Thats the first thing that comes to mind.

i just question the 10% number i find it totally unrealistic. Doesn't make me homophobic and it doesn't require me to enlighten anybody you are entitled to your own beliefs. 

[El Lobo]

“Manly” ?

Gay men can be “manly” too. But I agree, the stigma would likely discourage gay footballers from pursuing it as a career, hence making the actual percentage lower.

Yeah dreadful way of wording that one!

[CraigDS]

you guys are saying the gay lobby is not a political force?

fund many things. Like any other lobby. Im completely separating sexuality from the concept. Political influence eventually= taxpayer dollars, in the end. in all walks of life, throughout recorded history. How much public money did the Pride Parade in London get this year? Thats the first thing that comes to mind.

i just question the 10% number i find it totally unrealistic. Doesn't make me homophobic and it doesn't require me to enlighten anybody you are entitled to your own beliefs.

Interesting.

Do you also oppose black groups getting funding to improve race equality?

[Lush is the best medicine...]

fund many things. Like any other lobby. Im completely separating sexuality from the concept. Political influence eventually= taxpayer dollars, in the end. in all walks of life, throughout recorded history. How much public money did the Pride Parade in London get this year? Thats the first thing that comes to mind.

you do know those sorts of events actually bring in a lot of money?

[Kenny's Jacket]

you guys are saying the gay lobby is not a political force?

fund many things. Like any other lobby. Im completely separating sexuality from the concept. Political influence eventually= taxpayer dollars, in the end. in all walks of life, throughout recorded history. How much public money did the Pride Parade in London get this year? Thats the first thing that comes to mind.

i just question the 10% number i find it totally unrealistic. Doesn't make me homophobic and it doesn't require me to enlighten anybody you are entitled to your own beliefs.

Interesting.

Do you also oppose black groups getting funding to improve race equality?

Loads of events get public funding, why do you single out Pride?

[TepidT2O]

you guys are saying the gay lobby is not a political force?

fund many things. Like any other lobby. Im completely separating sexuality from the concept. Political influence eventually= taxpayer dollars, in the end. in all walks of life, throughout recorded history. How much public money did the Pride Parade in London get this year? Thats the first thing that comes to mind.

i just question the 10% number i find it totally unrealistic. Doesn't make me homophobic and it doesn't require me to enlighten anybody you are entitled to your own beliefs. 

Usually the number given is about 2.5% of people being gay..(some say a little higher)

I’m all for money being given to pride. When people get the shit beaten out of them just for who they are attracted to, it seems only right that some funding goes towards making people realise that these are totally normal feelings.

[Bobinhood]

Depends-what is a "black group?" What is "race equality?"  Overarching concepts are easy. Implementation is harder. Basically I generally distrust bureaucracy, lobby groups, Businesses and Government of all kinds because of simple human nature. Been alive too long i guess but im pretty cynical.

Its the difference between the Rule of Law and the Rules of law. Question one, they point to the other and call you a barbarian. 

I dont oppose the basic concepts of giving some money to the Pride parade, or early childhood education programs designed to address the root causes of racial inequality, or any other good cause that could be deemed in the public interest. Its just the way that pie gets divided up is eternally troubling.

i also personally deconstruct every single ad i see on tv or online, i take it apart "what are they selling me? how? is it true? was it effective? did it work?" just because im interested in marketing--(Banks are the worst btw  so smooth and yet so evil) and have done for years. Point being i dont believe a lot of stuff and i dont mean to pick on the gay community per se. I just feel that in particular that the god like never questioned 10% figure is simply more of an example that the gay lobby are very effective marketers than it is an actual fact. Good for them, that's great, i'm just saying i personally dont believe it.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Members of the LGBT community also pay taxes you know.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I dont oppose the basic concepts of giving some money to the Pride parade, or early childhood education programs designed to address the root causes of racial inequality, or any other good cause that could be deemed in the public interest. Its just the way that pie gets divided up is eternally troubling.

It would appear you do have an issue with the funding as you think the gay community are lying to boost funds.

As Tepid touched on, not that long ago being gay was a criminal offence, and seen as acceptable to refuse housing to Black people who were invited here to boost out economy.  If 1% of the population were gay they should still receive public funds. 

[Kenny's Jacket]

Members of the LGBT community also pay taxes you know.

But the religious institutions that oppose them dont.

[CraigDS]

I dont oppose the basic concepts of giving some money to the Pride parade

 

How much public money did the Pride Parade in London get this year? Thats the first thing that comes to mind.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I know 

Apparently the gays lie to get more money.  Bob knows this somehow. 

[Alan B'Stard]

I always find this subject funny, not just in sports but society in general.

What business is it of the general public to know what another person's sexual preference is? Why are gay people made to feel under pressure for them to HAVE to come out and tell the world?

Surely it's a person's right to do what they want and with whom they want without needing to broadcast it. It's called a private life and we all have one!

[Bobinhood]

Members of the LGBT community also pay taxes you know.

True. and the history of repression and violence is horrible that is also true. I dont ignore that historical wrong and i dont object to the gay community getting a fair and proportional representation advocating an inclusive society free from hatred. I think my personal position is the ethically correct one, in that i simply dont care about anybody's sexuality. From the depths of my soul i dont care who anybody else chooses to love or simply make love to. Science cant measure the lack of interest i have in that. Its none of my business or concern.

anyway i dont mean to offend anybody. There are many other lobby groups i distrust much more than the gay community i just couldn't resist commenting on the 10% thing.  Because i like to poke the hornets nest once in a while.   

[Bobinhood]

I know 

Apparently the gays lie to get more money.  Bob knows this somehow.

unfair

"or any other good cause that could be deemed in the public interest. Its just the way that pie gets divided up is eternally troubling."

Cherry picking. i said every lobby group over represents its own position and in my opinion the concept that 10% of the population is gay is untrue. You frame that as an attack on gay people and all funding for social causes.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I always find this subject funny, not just in sports but society in general.

What business is it of the general public to know what another person's sexual preference is? Why are gay people made to feel under pressure for them to HAVE to come out and tell the world?

Surely it's a person's right to do what they want and with whom they want without needing to broadcast it. It's called a private life and we all have one!

Agree some people are just nosy fuckers, but their are also those like me who want to do away with the stigma of being gay and for it to become normal. For a players boyfried/Husband to go to the World Cup or an award ceremony  and for it not to be a story

[Bobinhood]

Agree some people are just nosy fuckers, but their are also those like me who want to do away with the stigma of being gay and for it to become normal. For a players boyfried/Husband to go to the World Cup or an award ceremony  and for it not to be a story

100% that should happen. 100%.

 where i live in toronto people walk the boardwalk hand in hand all the time and nobody blinks. that should be a given.

[CraigDS]

Totally agree. Unfortunately for some I don’t think it will happen until there are some players who come out and show the (I’d like to say small, but imagine it probably isn’t) section of football fans who think being gay is a problem that it’s pretty damn normal and not really anything to do with them.

[Kenny's Jacket]

True. and the history of repression and violence is horrible that is also true. I dont ignore that historical wrong and i dont object to the gay community getting a fair and proportional representation advocating an inclusive society free from hatred. I think my personal position is the ethically correct one, in that i simply dont care about anybody's sexuality. From the depths of my soul i dont care who anybody else chooses to love or simply make love to. Science cant measure the lack of interest i have in that. Its none of my business or concern.

anyway i dont mean to offend anybody. There are many other lobby groups i distrust much more than the gay community i just couldn't resist commenting on the 10% thing.  Because i like to poke the hornets nest once in a while.

I just think there are likely more appropriate groups to accuse than one who have suffered at the hands state.  The state owes them

[Alan B'Stard]

Agree some people are just nosy fuckers, but their are also those like me who want to do away with the stigma of being gay and for it to become normal. For a players boyfried/Husband to go to the World Cup or an award ceremony  and for it not to be a story

I understand that totally. To keep the topic kimd of on point, it's disappointing that when the ex-rugby player (name escapes me) came out, it didn't have the desired impact on other active sports people to be able to speak up.

[JC the Messiah]

I understand that totally. To keep the topic kimd of on point, it's disappointing that when the ex-rugby player (name escapes me) came out, it didn't have the desired impact on other active sports people to be able to speak up.

Wonder why?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46253256

[Alan B'Stard]

Wonder why?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46253256

Oh yeah, I remember that now! Silly behaviour.

[Bobinhood]

I just think there are likely more appropriate groups to accuse than one who have suffered at the hands state.  The state owes them

Sorry if you took anything as an attack, i was just commenting on the marketing tactics of a fairly strong political lobby because ive got a lifelong interest in marketing and ive always found it very interesting that the number is hardly ever challenged. Nothing to say about the rights and the wrongs of the position the lobby represents. Its actually excellent representation and very effective. I actually admire that rather ballsy position.

but you can see the shitstorm that develops when you ask questions. Apparently i hate gays, black people, social justice in general, when i say the 10% figure is meant to increase financial and political clout im asked to give a funding example and when i give one off the top of my head im attacked for opposing social funding and when i say im not opposed to social funding im juxtaposed backwards on the quotes with an emoji that im luckily to old to fully comprehend but its ok because i know the quotes are actually backwards in time and not supported by context and what i said makes total sense, unless its viewed as an attack instead of a commentary. Plus Craigs a very good guy with solid values and i like him and hes just defending social justice so thats all good.

I swear im not attacking social justice. However, if i have to add even one more PC letter to LGBTQ2IA+ I may cry for the impending failure of the revolution, eaten from within.

[CraigDS]

However, if i have to add even one more PC letter to LGBTQ2IA+ I may cry for the impending failure of the revolution, eaten from within.

Im with you on that 

[the 92A]

To be honest I think it's a weird angle to come to the discussion, that there aren't 10% of people who aren't completely straight because it's about political influence and money, but each to his own.


One thing I'm certain of is that there are gay professional footballers but not one has felt comfortable enough to come out and be able to express their sexuality and that is the key problem here, not arguments about how many of us are gay, whether football only attracts hetrosexuals etc.


I wish we lived in a world where someone's sexual orientation  wasn't important, something that was your own business and nobody elses but when you live in a world where holding hands means risking a beating or worse, where holiday travel can mean risking imprisonment or even execution, where talking about same sex relationships brings about protests from people who who feel they have every right not to just comment on your relationship but to denounce it as sick, perverted or the work of the devil. The reality is that until these things fade into obscurity it's hard to think being gay is just about your own personal relations and not a social  and political question also.


The fact that no gay footballer feels confident enough to come out shows just how far off we are from this just being about personal relations, that's a sad state of affairs

[Bobinhood]

sorry if i kicked the hornets nest I should clarify that ive got a marketing background and ive always considered that 10% number to be a major marketing coup purely in marketing terms nothing at all with any of the rest of it. Its a quirky number thats been in my head for years and somebody used it so i just tried to rebut.

Probably unnecessary or even stupid to drag it into the conversation though in retrospect  i apologize if anyone took it poorly. I like people! I do! cross my heart.

and on topic  its still the dark ages in sports but i cant see it being long before they come around.

[Fruity]

I think it would take a very brave footballer to openly come out whilst still playing. I would also say the percentage in football is lower than other types of work.

Living in london and having both my children still at school (both secondary now) I think we still have quite a long way to go before attitudes completely change. Don't get me wrong there have definitely been major improvements since I was at school but as far as I have seen I would say when kids "banter" they think it is far less of a problem to use a homophobic slur than say a racist one.

[Grand Chilli]

I think it would take a very brave footballer to openly come out whilst still playing. I would also say the percentage in football is lower than other types of work.

Living in london and having both my children still at school (both secondary now) I think we still have quite a long way to go before attitudes completely change. Don't get me wrong there have definitely been major improvements since I was at school but as far as I have seen I would say when kids "banter" they think it is far less of a problem to use a homophobic slur than say a racist one.

Yep, I agree. Both my kids are at primary school. Different yeargroups, but within the last 6 months both have seen the attitudes and the things other kids said when the "wrong" sex was used in school plays (Aladdin was a little girl, and there was something unusual in the casting choices for Cinderella too, I forget what).

Going back to the original debate, and something I wanted to ask a while ago but couldn't work out how without risking coming across badly... I've had plenty of gay friends over the years, and not a single one of them was interested in football as a fan. Is there not something about the testosterone-driven, competitive, "manly" sport that stops a lot of gay youngsters ever getting involved? It's obviously not 100%, but if you think the same percentage of footballers is gay as the general population, logic suggests it must also be true in drama, fashion, nursing etc etc. As to the exact nature of any causation, that's one for another day

[Rhi]

Never knew I was a political lobby before. Mad how the world works.