Topic: Corners- why are we so poor at them? (Dates from 2005)

[Garstonite]

GET STE FINNAN ON CORNERS!

[-HH-]

GET STE FINNAN ON CORNERS!

Agree with that. Our best crosser of the ball.

I don't buy the argument that it's the fault of those in the box. We all notice that Sami hasn't scored from many corners this season because he used to on a fairly regular basis. Crouch did for Southampton, Morientes for Madrid/Monaco etc. etc. These are all players who will score from corners if the service is right. At the moment, it isn't.

[Мерфи]

Steven Gerrard's deliveries all seem to be one speed and very similar.  There is some variety as he goes back and forth between trying to get Crouch or Hyppia cutting in at the front post, or somewhere around the penalty spot.  It seems that once a game we serve one to just out side the edge of the area for Xabi or Riise to crank into the mixer.  So we have a good repetoir of set plays from the corner, but for me we don't have enough types of dilivery.

Somebody mentioned from the England game, that Crouch could be the most dangerous on a floated ball to the back post.  Other's in this thread mentioned Gary Mac's beautifully lofted corners.  I think we could do well to serve up more of these type of opportunities wether they are flick-ons from Crouch sitting on the front post, or Hyppia fading to the back. 

Either way - it is clear that whipping the ball into the box just hasn't been successful enough with the number of chances we are earning.  Frustrating as hell - and compounds an already frustrating strike rate.

[howes hound]

I just can't figure out what it is we're trying to do off corners. There's Sami standing in front of the goalie while in comes a cross that the goalie doesn't even have to move to. Or we go through this short corner rigmarole and meanwhile our strikers are rooted to the middle waiting for us to stop buggering around and whip the ball in. By the time we do somebody's usually offside. The one time it looks like we have a plan is when it's scudded in to the near post and you've got someone like Garcia or Kewell angling in.
Contrast that with Chelsea on corners. They've got the big forwards causing mayhem in the six yard box, Lampard waiting for easy pickings on the edge of the area (the role that many of us see Gerrard in), and Terry coming in just behind the first rush. Simple, but it works even when we all know what's coming. It certainly had us up shit creek earlier in the season.

[Spanish Fan]

I just can't figure out what it is we're trying to do off corners. There's Sami standing in front of the goalie while in comes a cross that the goalie doesn't even have to move to. Or we go through this short corner rigmarole and meanwhile our strikers are rooted to the middle waiting for us to stop buggering around and whip the ball in. By the time we do somebody's usually offside. The one time it looks like we have a plan is when it's scudded in to the near post and you've got someone like Garcia or Kewell angling in.
Contrast that with Chelsea on corners. They've got the big forwards causing mayhem in the six yard box, Lampard waiting for easy pickings on the edge of the area (the role that many of us see Gerrard in), and Terry coming in just behind the first rush. Simple, but it works even when we all know what's coming. It certainly had us up shit creek earlier in the season.

Doesn't  Lampard take the corners himself.? I think he does, and very well BTW. Against Barcelona he took all the set pieces himself.

Chelsea have better delivery and more mobile headers of the ball. Terry quiker than Hyppia or Morientes, and then Carvalho and Gallas who are good in the air and quick. Besides, they do a lot of blocking and shirt pulling, even when attacking.

[howes hound]

Doesn't  Lampard take the corners himself.? I think he does, and very well BTW. Against Barcelona he took all the set pieces himself.

I stand corrected. It's Lampard just outside the box on other set pieces if he isn't taking the kick himself, but I seem to recall somebody has that role of picking up the half-clearances. Is it Cole?
The essential point remains. Chelsea do seem to have a plan and whether or not we like it (shirt pulling etc.) they execute it well. I'm not sure Terry is inherently faster than some of our big men, but he comes in with more conviction and he times his runs to perfection, just behind the first rush. What's more, the corner taker and the rest of the team are on the same wavelength. Too often it looks like our fellers are on three different pages and we get a kind of Keystone Cops outcome, corner-taker executing Plan A, Sami and Jamie on Plan B, strikers working to Plan C. Same on free kicks. We either look like we're making it up as we go along, or else we're trying to work to some 14-page diagram that looked impressive out at Melwood.

[kkhaku]

Three problems with the corners IMO.

1. Already been said: Stevie's taking them instead of attempting to score from them. He's definitely our best finisher, and probably not our best set piece man, pure logic dictates he should be in the box...especially considering the amount of his deliveries that have been unsuccessful.

2. They've become somewhat predictable, always driven in towards the 6 yard box, no outswingers, nothing floated in towards the far post, nothing bent in near post, etc etc. Always looking for Crouch or Sami, who are marked the tightest. Seems no one else even bothers going up for them...lets try something different for god's sake.

3. Crouch and Sami dont take a run in...just stand near the 6 yard box hoping to win the ball. Because of their height, they normally do win them, but never get enough to put it towards goal with accuracy and power. Taking a run in, moving around a bit will help them get rid of their marking AND help them get some power on their headers rather than arcing it lamely towards the keeer.

[Something Else]

To be honest though, can anyone see Gerrard not taking them

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

for me it's pretty obvious where everyone should be to be making full use of their dangerous attributes on corners. i've done a crude little diagram to illustrate my point. if the corner is taken from the right instead, then stevie and jar swap positions and crouchie takes the back post again.

as we know gerrard, xabi and riise can be lethal from outside the box, when a ball is set up for them on the volley. i've also seen xabi score a fabulous header for sociedad before he signed for us where he was in sami's position, rose like a gazelle and powered the ball home.

riise can be swapped for kewell who can be just as dangerous from that position, when the norwegian isnt playing but i think kewell would be best in the box otherwise.

sami has come good many a time in just that position as he has the ability to meet a cross in full flight and steer it goalwards, this is where i think crouchie fails, although i've critticised him for his heading in the past he appears to do the job when he has the chance to see the cross floated in on it's downwards trajectory so he's more likely to be suited to the back post.

everyone else can stand where the fuck they like occupying defenders but for me, these five players must start in these positions on corners to get the best out of them.

[StevieG26]

GET STE FINNAN ON CORNERS!

I agree with that mate. Gerrard's best position is near the outside of the box, and arguably so is Alonso's. Kewell showed that he can head a ball and also go for a spectacular volley. In response to your post, Bill Hicks..., I think Crouch should be at the near post in front of the keeper so he could block his view and frustrate him. Other than that, the rest is where it should be.

[the good half]

A professional footballer not being able to but a dead ball into the box from that distance needs to stay on the training field until he does.

[Luis Garcia scores again]

maybe we should do some heading practice at Melwood

[StevieG26]

A professional footballer not being able to but a dead ball into the box from that distance needs to stay on the training field until he does.

I agree. These players are paid to score goals and deliver good balls. I also think that Crouch should spend more time at the gym.

[Luis Garcia scores again]

and Nando should spend less time doing his hair.

[StevieG26]

and Nando should spend less time doing his hair.

Lol. True that.

Maybe we'll see him recapturing his European form tonight?
(sick and tired of saying the same shit.)

[Luis Garcia scores again]

he has CALLED the game as one he will make his own

if he doesn't it proves he doesn't have it anymore.

Can you hear the drums...

[StevieG26]

he has CALLED the game as one he will make his own

if he doesn't it proves he doesn't have it anymore.

Can you hear the drums...

Guess so but how many times has he said so? I liked the article and all that, but I'm afraid words are cheap.

[Vulmea]

Simple facts are we don't do enough work on set pieces and Rafa still has to learn that in the prem set pieces are fundamental to success

this year he has largely sorted our away form - next year he can sort the set pieces

Sami has never been prolific from attacking set pieces both he and Crouch seem content to get their head on the ball rather than a controlled header toward goal - their mobility and athleticism is poor in that regard

Don't think there is much wrong with Gerrards delivery at all - although we get so many some are bound to be mishit

as with all of our attacking play - the aggresion and hunger is lacking - Getting on a bit now but in my day corners were generally about who wanted the ball most........

[myrlas]

Simple facts are we don't do enough work on set pieces and Rafa still has to learn that in the prem set pieces are fundamental to success

I must admit I find it really hard to believe that a manger in Rafa's mould, who actually has invented zonal marking on defensive set-pieces(EDIT: In it's pure form at LFC) don't know the importance of offensive set-pieces.

In fact I'm pretty sure there is a certain deadballplan every match. Opponents often line up in a similar way, both offensive and defensive, and the video analysis will point out the direction of how we should try to convert set-pieces into goals.

But you can have the best plans in the world. As long as the delivery isn't good enough...it won't work.

In my opinion we aim mostly at Sami at corners. He lines up in front of the keeper. And moved a couple of yards out from the goalline when the corner goes. That should mean that a well struck ball, curling in to wards Sami's head would be ideal, since few people beat Sami in the air.

The problem is:
A - It's obvious that Gerrard tries to hit him, but he cant lift them well enough, and the man on the first post clears the ball WAY TOO MANY times. The solution is to either change tactics, or change Gerrard. I would do both to be honest. As someone already has pointed out...Sami isn't exactly the most mobile player there is...so then we make it difficult for ourselves.

B - At corners it's pretty easy to take out people. A little shirtholding, a little blocking...and even the best headers are transformed into average ones. Attacking space is the best solution at corners, and we don't do that very good at all IMO. Terry has to be the prime example of how it can be done. It's not a coincidence that little Luis sometimes seems to be the player who gets at the end of corners most times. He's smart, and he moves well inside the box. He dummies defenders, and don't need height or strength to reach the ball. Most of the time it's about getting in the front seat.  Garcia, Morientes, Kewell, Cisse, Fowler, Gerrard and Carragher are capable of this, and I have seen them all do that.

So...

My suggestion would be to put Crouch at the first post, to flick the balls. Put Sami at the back post for winning floating corners (he wins those 9 out of 10). And let "the others" attack pre-defined spaces, and hope that the balls will hit them. Most likely the opponents best headers would be put on Sami and Crouch, leaving the dangerous space available for the "lesser" players to attack.

It would give us three opportunities every fucking time.

And letting Gerrard give the ball to the defender at the 1st post wouldn't be one of it...

[StevieG26]

I must admit I find it really hard to believe that a manger in Rafa's mould, who actually has invented zonal marking on defensive set-pieces don't know the importance of offensive set-pieces.

The problem is:
A - It's obvious that Gerrard tries to hit him, but he cant lift them well enough, and the man on the first post clears the ball WAY TOO MANY times. The solution is to either change tactics, or change Gerrard. I would do both to be honest.

B - At corners it's pretty easy to take out people. A little shirtholding, a little blocking...and even the best headers are transformed into average ones. Attacking space is the best solution at corners, and we don't do that very good at all IMO. Terry has to be the prime example of how it can be done. It's not a coincidence that little Luis sometimes seems to be the player who gets at the end of corners most times. He's smart, and he moves well inside the box. He dummies defenders, and don't need height or strength to reach the ball. Most of the time it's about getting in the front seat.  Garcia, Morientes, Kewell, Cisse, Fowler, Gerrard and Carragher are capable of this, and I have seen them all do that.

So...

My suggestion would be to put Crouch at the first post, to flick the balls. Put Sami at the back post for winning floating corners (he wins those 9 out of 10). And let "the others" attack pre-defined spaces, and hope that the balls will hit them. Most likely the opponents best headers would be put on Sami and Crouch, leaving the dangerous space available for the "lesser" players to attack.

Great post. I agree with all your suggestions and the fact that Crouch is a little taller than Sami would mean the keeper's view could be blocked.

However, I don't think Rafa was the one who invented defensive set-pieces zonal marking mate. That all happened a long time ago..

[Kopstar]

In the next game I would like to see Gerrard taking inswinging corners from the left and Kewell doing the same from the right. On indirect freekicks Alonso and Gerrard must rotate with each others. For direct freekicks just outside the box, then Fowler, Gerrard, and Alonso should step up to take. No more of that rolling the ball to the kicker who smashes it straight into the wall. I believe we will have much needed variation at setpieces and it should allow Gerrard to get in the box himself.

[Chivasino]

Saw a statistic yesterday that said that we had the worst record for scoring from corners...two all season.

Disgraceful when you consider we have Gerrard, Alonso, Kewell etc who should be able to deliver a killer cross and the highest average height in the Premiership.

[Vulmea]

myrlas I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not  on Rafa's lack of attention to set pieces - given you then list a whole load of stuff we could be doing at set pieces but don't and you can't be suggesting you know more about it than rafa - I'm guessing you agree that the stubborn little spaniard is missing a trick  - I,  like you, can't imagine Rafa says just throw it in there and see what happens - but our poor  return suggest thats exactly what he is doing - the same with gerrard taking the corners - does he not take them in training  - does he clear the near post then? For me his delivery is fine but there is no real 'plan' - against chelsea at the bridge it actually looked like we had a plan in the first 15 minutes  - Carra came across the front and should have had a decent header, then we had a player run underneath (twice) to give sami a good run and then it just stopped and we reverted to kicking it to the far stick.....

but the same applies to free kicks - how many audible groans does it take before they stop tapping the ball one yard to the side and watch the shot get charged down before they stop bloody doing it - I know the chances of injury are less kicking a moving ball but the chances of scoring are a damn sight less as well

it does strike me that we are brilliantly well drilled in defence but in the opposition final third a lot is left to chance, perhaps that comes next season.............

[Мерфи]

I must admit I find it really hard to believe that a manger in Rafa's mould, who actually has invented zonal marking on defensive set-pieces(EDIT: In it's pure form at LFC) don't know the importance of offensive set-pieces.

In fact I'm pretty sure there is a certain deadballplan every match. Opponents often line up in a similar way, both offensive and defensive, and the video analysis will point out the direction of how we should try to convert set-pieces into goals.

But you can have the best plans in the world. As long as the delivery isn't good enough...it won't work.

In my opinion we aim mostly at Sami at corners. He lines up in front of the keeper. And moved a couple of yards out from the goalline when the corner goes. That should mean that a well struck ball, curling in to wards Sami's head would be ideal, since few people beat Sami in the air.

The problem is:
A - It's obvious that Gerrard tries to hit him, but he cant lift them well enough, and the man on the first post clears the ball WAY TOO MANY times. The solution is to either change tactics, or change Gerrard. I would do both to be honest. As someone already has pointed out...Sami isn't exactly the most mobile player there is...so then we make it difficult for ourselves.

B - At corners it's pretty easy to take out people. A little shirtholding, a little blocking...and even the best headers are transformed into average ones. Attacking space is the best solution at corners, and we don't do that very good at all IMO. Terry has to be the prime example of how it can be done. It's not a coincidence that little Luis sometimes seems to be the player who gets at the end of corners most times. He's smart, and he moves well inside the box. He dummies defenders, and don't need height or strength to reach the ball. Most of the time it's about getting in the front seat.  Garcia, Morientes, Kewell, Cisse, Fowler, Gerrard and Carragher are capable of this, and I have seen them all do that.

So...

My suggestion would be to put Crouch at the first post, to flick the balls. Put Sami at the back post for winning floating corners (he wins those 9 out of 10). And let "the others" attack pre-defined spaces, and hope that the balls will hit them. Most likely the opponents best headers would be put on Sami and Crouch, leaving the dangerous space available for the "lesser" players to attack.

It would give us three opportunities every fucking time.

And letting Gerrard give the ball to the defender at the 1st post wouldn't be one of it...

That's just what I said mate!!!   

[kkhaku]

I play for a men's beer league team in Vancouver. Our centreback is about 5 foot 5 inches. Shortest guy on the team, and probably in the whole league. John Terry like player, wins ALL the headers on opposition corners, and is one of our top scorers from set pieces, especially corners.

As many have said, height is sometimes the least important attribute you need to score from set pieces. Asides from the quality of delivery, there are many other things that come into play. Mobility/agility, the ability to lose a marker, anticipation of where the ball will fall, timing in terms of your jump, strength so you dont get muscled out from getting a head on the ball, and of course hunger...

[StevieG26]

I play for a men's beer league team in Vancouver. Our centreback is about 5 foot 5 inches. Shortest guy on the team, and probably in the whole league. John Terry like player, wins ALL the headers on opposition corners, and is one of our top scorers from set pieces, especially corners.

As many have said, height is sometimes the least important attribute you need to score from set pieces. Asides from the quality of delivery, there are many other things that come into play. Mobility/agility, the ability to lose a marker, anticipation of where the ball will fall, timing in terms of your jump, strength so you dont get muscled out from getting a head on the ball, and of course hunger...

Interesting I think Garcia's more prolific than Crouch with headers, and it's very rare that people will throw long balls at him.

[Something Else]

Interesting I think Garcia's more prolific than Crouch with headers, and it's very rare that people will throw long balls at him.

that is true, Garci a is a great Header of the ball. Crouch is a great ball player, I dont see Crouch as a danger himself, its more how he can bring players into the game. Of course he can score himself like against everton or the Mancs which were 2 very different goals but I think his major influence is bringing players into the game.

Think with corners we need to take the ball of Gerrard and give someone else a go

[StevieG26]

that is true, Garci a is a great Header of the ball. Crouch is a great ball player, I dont see Crouch as a danger himself, its more how he can bring players into the game. Of course he can score himself like against everton or the Mancs which were 2 very different goals but I think his major influence is bringing players into the game.

Think with corners we need to take the ball of Gerrard and give someone else a go

I think Crouch's lack of danger from headers is down to strength. How many times have we seen defenders brush past him, or when he gets to the ball there's no power in the header? I think that, if he spends most of next summer in the gym instead of in the Caribbean, he'll start getting more of the ball in the air. And that's what we want to see from him.

[Luis Garcia scores again]

I think Crouch's lack of danger from headers is down to strength. How many times have we seen defenders brush past him, or when he gets to the ball there's no power in the header? I think that, if he spends most of next summer in the gym instead of in the Caribbean, he'll start getting more of the ball in the air. And that's what we want to see from him.

Agreed yet his header goal for England was a bloody bueaty.

Proving he can do it if he tries.

It seems to me when he has time to think about the header, he sorta panics and goes safety first ie head the ball into the ground.

Yet if he deosn't think about it, he can do it instinctively.

[StevieG26]

Agreed yet his header goal for England was a bloody bueaty.

Proving he can do it if he tries.

It seems to me when he has time to think about the header, he sorta panics and goes safety first ie head the ball into the ground.

Yet if he deosn't think about it, he can do it instinctively.

Spot on. It's the right thing to do to head the ball downwards but not into the ground. I still feel Crouch has a lot of potential to be more of an aerial threat, given his height.

[Vinay]

I felt that the corners were much bette ryesterday.  They were clearing the first man, and were on target.  Hell we even scored from one (disallowed of course), and that corner taker was , surprise surprise, Cissé.  I also noticed that Gerrard took very few of them, and was roaming at at the top of the box for the corners.  Did one of the staff read these posts?

[Raul!]

When Cisse is not playing, out forwards don't have enough strength in the box.  Works for corners as well as taking up places in free play.  Carra dn Hyppia, yes, but they can't be expected to score as consistently as a forward.  May be an argument for a Yakubu type player for the strikers thread.

[rlpolobear9]

i've been saying thi sto my mates for months gerrard is probably the only player at the club who really wants to score off a corner and will mix it up in the box by not shying away from contact. plus alonso riise kewell are all better corner takers

[Dowling10]

IMO Gerrard is awfull at corners, even set-pieces half the time. Lets get Finnan or Alonso on the corners. Gerrard around the edge of the box. The commentators go on, here will be a special deliviary of a corner, whipped with pace. Well not exactly, whipped in with pace to teh front post were it is mainly cleared. Even off free kicks, Gerrard will only strike the ball well when it is rolled too him. Great player, but please get him off the corners.

[StevieG26]

i've been saying thi sto my mates for months gerrard is probably the only player at the club who really wants to score off a corner and will mix it up in the box by not shying away from contact. plus alonso riise kewell are all better corner takers

Disagree with the riise comment and would replace him with Finnan.

[myrlas]

We scored on a corner, and....it wasn't Gerrard who took it. It was Harry.

And apart from Sami, Luis is definately one of our biggest threaths in the box...

[Scarlet`]

Harry's corner was quite good.......I liked it from what I've seen a few times........he really should take it

Didn't Garcia take a corner against West Ham when Xabi scored?

[Garstonite]

Ironic that we score a corner when neither Crouch or Hyypia were on the pitch.

[theCanadian]

Ironic that we score a corner when neither Crouch or Hyypia were on the pitch.

Quite. Well not so much Crouch - he's the worst header of the ball in the entire team without question.

[bigbear]

Ironic that we score a corner when neither Crouch or Hyypia were on the pitch.

Thought exactly the same thing myself. Near post flick, you can't beat them.