Author Topic: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool  (Read 21049 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« on: June 20, 2004, 07:49:08 pm »
I don't doubt that Chelsea want Steven Gerrard (who wouldn't?), and that they are using the media to unsettle him; I do, however, doubt that Stevie G wants to leave Liverpool Football Club. The questionable nature of such rumours is best summed up by the first report about him leaving, which said Gerrard was unhappy that Liverpool hadn't appointed an English coach (Curbishley), so he was upping sticks... to play for Jose Mourinho! To suggest that Gerrard favoured an English manager is barmy - he's only ever played for Houllier (who he is indebted to) and Eriksson (ditto). Oh, my apologies - I'm forgetting a brief spell under Kevin Keegan's disastrous, directionless stewardship of England. So when the stories start out like that, you know there is some serious straw-clutching going on. Gerrard simply wants to play under a top manager; Benitez fits that bill. His origins matter not.

While there is never any smoke without fire, in this instance I feel it's just Peter Kenyon playing with matches like a naughty schoolboy. And before we panic, let's remember that at Chelsea Kenyon has rarely got his man: Eriksson was the first choice for manager and Wenger was also coveted, and in the last year Henry, Viera, and Walter Samuel have all turned him down. Arsenal, despite being short of cash, said no to the sale of Henry for £50m. Henry didn't want to leave either. We have to hope Gerrard feels as loved as Henry does, and as capable of challenging for honours as Arsenal are.

Gerrard's comments were made at the end of last season. He told Rick Parry he was unhappy - and rightly so (who wasn't unhappy?). Where's the news in that? Who wouldn't be hacked-off with having out-played so many of his own teammates, many of whom didn't appear to be trying? Who wouldn't have had concerns about a manager - however much he liked and respected him - whose tactics appeared confused, and who had bought too many sub-standard players in recent seasons? Gerrard was right to wonder if Houllier was past his best.

What has changed since then?

Lots - quite clearly:

- Heskey, the perennial under-achiever, has been replaced with the most coveted young striker in world football. This is just the first piece of transfer activity. The club means business. It realised that the time had come to be ruthless.

- Rafael Benitez, Valencia's own King Midas, has arrived as our new manager. This is the man who spent next-to-no money in winning the best league in the world not once, but twice in the last three years. Oh, and the Uefa Cup. Now if I was Steven Gerrard, I'd be pretty damn excited about the prospect of working with him. Wouldn't you?

- The finances will be boosted with a massive investment on the horizon: money still from Thailand, but now from a better source, it seems. Of course, it's not the bottomless pit of cash that Abramovich possesses. But it's enough money, if spent wisely. After all, Cisse - 30 goals in France last season - cost the same as Chelsea are paying for a Portuguese full-back.

- Also different from last season is that Liverpool are in the Champions League (qualifier permitting).

The joke is that one newspaper described swapping Anfield for Stamford Bridge as Gerrard's "dream" move. What is there to dream about? Am I missing the point here?

At Liverpool he is the club captain. Captain of the most successful British club ever, no less: domestically, and in Europe (a team still respected and loved worldwide, unlike Chelsea). The team he supported as a boy. His roots are Liverpool Football Club. And now we're being told by journalists that he'll walk away for a big pile of money, when he already earns more than he knows what to do with. Rick Parry said it's not about the money - it's about medals. And with the top players, that is true. But excuse me - how many trophies have Chelsea won lately anyway? Haven't we won four since their last success? If Gerrard wanted to join Arsenal or Man United, I could understand that *to a degree*, as they are "proven" - they have won all the major trophies in the last five years (although no-one whose opinion should be trusted has said he wants to go anywhere ). But Chelsea? They are still just an unproven theory; it's all "what might be". They are still only an experiment - not yet a great football club.

Rafael Benitez has already proved his class over this issue. Yes, he wants Gerrard, and will do all he can to keep him (as will Parry). But he is not worried; Benitez wants to build a team, not a collection of individuals. Gerrard is the perfect central component for that team, providing he wants to play for the club. (And I still believe he does). Gerrard is part of Liverpool's cultural core, in a way he never could be in London. He is both the soul and the heartbeat of our side; not just another expensive adornment to be tossed aside if injury or poor form strikes, or the latest hot property takes their fancy. Liverpool is his home. In every possible sense.

I hope (with all my heart) that it doesn't come to having to sell him; as it will confirm Liverpool FC as a second class footballing institution for the first time in my lifetime. We've been out of the title race and in the doldrums, but we've never had to sell our best player to another English club. If Gerrard wants to leave (for argument's sake), then you can refuse to sell him, but then you have an unhappy player on your books (whose value starts to depreciate). So you sell him and make a lot of money; but you strengthen your opponents in doing so and possibly kiss goodbye the chance of ever overtaking them. Let him go, and it sends worrying signals to the other players. It says you can't compete, and perhaps lack ambition.

If Everton want to sell Wayne Rooney, then, to me at least, that makes sense. They need to rebuild an entire side, and could buy eleven £4m players to do so. Liverpool need only new direction (from Benitez) and three or four new faces at most: but top quality ones, not squad men. Liverpool need to be adding quality, not quantity. The trouble with getting £31 million (add another £40m to make it realistic, in my eyes) is that you could buy six decent players with that money, and none of them improve the first team. (See Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou, et al, when Houllier last had a large amount to invest). And the value of anyone we wanted to buy would double overnight. So while Benitez might be able to fashion a better team with the money, he would also be running the risk of merely bolstering the squad. Look at Man U: while Ronaldo might end up adequately replacing Beckham, it looked for 95% of last season as though they had bought five squad players who weren't up to the task; Ferguson couldn't play all five in Beckham's place. They added depth to the squad - but weakened the side. And Gerrard is twice the player Beckham is.

When a player like Gerrard leaves, he is irreplaceable. You won't find a replacement who is like five players rolled into one. Not only does he do the job of five people, he also works harder for the team than anyone else; he is not a fancy soloist who you might be better off without, for all his skills.

I'm still struggling with the idea that Gerrard is "dreaming" of playing for Chelsea. What does Chelsea Football Club have to offer that we don't, money aside? It is a club with no tradition, and no self-generating finance; if Abramovich got bored and walked away, then the club would implode.

What players do they have that Gerrard would dream of playing alongside? They've made a lot of expensive signings, but no Zidane, no Henry, no Ronaldinho. Would you want to swap Duff for Kewell? Not particularly. Or any of their strikers for Owen? Has any Chelsea player (or target, such as Deco) come even remotely close to playing to the level of Milan Baros during Euro2004?

Have they signed anyone as exciting as Djibril Cisse this summer? I can tell you no, they haven't. Lots of Porto players eager to leave a weak league; to me, Porto were a well-organised team who, like Millwall in the FA Cup, had the breaks which are part of doing well in cup competitions. (Monaco knocked out the better teams, for example; and then Monaco lost their best player, Guily, early in the final). Is Deco quality? Sure. But would you join a club just to play with him? No. Meanwhile Chelsea's training ground in Harlington is a disgrace. The new Anfield will easily overshadow Stamford Bridge.

So maybe it's the manager? Is Mourinho better than Benitez? I'd certainly argue that Valencia played better teams in the Spanish League (the best in the world, in most people's eyes) than Porto met on their way to the Champions League final; and a league is almost 40 games, not 13. If you win one of the big four leagues, you are a quality manager. Do it twice, like Benitez (and with no money as well), and you are proven top quality.

I hope people don't start turning on Steven Gerrard or the board over pure speculation; otherwise it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: he leaves as he feels unwelcome, when up to then he'd wanted to stay. We should be getting behind him, and not believing any of this; nothing has been said by either him or his agent. Until it has, then we must ignore it all - as hard as it is.

I'll sum up by saying: why would he leave Liverpool at such an exciting time? The answer is: he won't. I'm not 100% sure, of course, but close enough. Gerrard is still young; just 23 when the last season ended. He said he didn't want to be 35 at Liverpool having won none of the major honours. Fair comment, in my eyes. But that's eleven years away. Surely he has to give the new man at least two years of his service? Does he not owe that to himself, the club, and the fans? He will be only 25 at the end of 2005/06. If Liverpool haven't progressed in that time, then he can leave with my (reluctant) blessing.

But not a moment before.

© Paul Tomkins 2004
« Last Edit: June 20, 2004, 09:13:06 pm by paul_tomkins »

Pheeny

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2004, 08:38:03 pm »
Thank You once again Paul!

Offline ttnbd

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2004, 08:39:20 pm »

I hope people don't start turning on Steven Gerrard or the board over pure speculation; otherwise it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: he leaves as he feels unwelcome, when up to then he'd wanted to stay. We should be getting behind him, and not believing any of this; nothing has been said by either him or his agent. Until it has, then we must ignore it all - as hard as it is.


Another top quality piece paul.  And the above I have quoted is probably the most important bit.

I am sure there is no doubt someone out there is determined to unsettle Gerrard but I don't think they are looking at the reports alone unsettling him but in fact I think they are looking to play on the gullible fans who are believing these reports.  This in turn they hope will turn the fans on gerrard and thus gerrard feels unwelcome at the club, as you say.

Why would he want to stay at a club he feels unwelcome?  Who would blame him in that situation but to believe some, or all, of the reports about all this is hard to do.

Just like today someone on another forum posting a story that said he talked to some stranger about it in a wine bar and says it is all true.  This being posted 12 hours after a supposedly similar story was printed in the sunday mirror.

The best thing to do is sit back, not let it get to you and put it out of our minds until something official has been announced.  Because all these people who have contacts within the club or close to the club are contradicting each other so I don't believe we are ever going to get a true reflection of the situation until we see/hear first hand from either Steven Gerrard or the club on the situation.
So all say thanks to the Shanks

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Offline Filler.

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2004, 08:43:25 pm »
Great read Mr T. 

When the rumours started out I thought they were hilarious, but couldn't sleep last night.    Caught a comment by Charlie Whelan? on fivelive who was so flippant and confident about his move it just scared me. Thing is - it's STILL not 100% that he's not going. When should we expect a comment. A passing 'It's bollocks' to a journalist would do me instead of 'refusing to comment.'

There are alot of upset reds right now needing some kind of confirmation.

Pheeny

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2004, 08:50:15 pm »
Hope you don't mind but I posted this on .tv

Offline pob310

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2004, 08:54:28 pm »
Thanks Paul.  A well written, well thought out contribution that has lifted the gloom that was begining to overshadow the excitement of our new boss. ;D
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Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2004, 09:03:39 pm »
Quality, as per usual.
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2004, 09:06:11 pm »
Well, I just hope I'm right; or rather, I *know* I am right with most of what I've said, but ultimately it's not how I see choosing between Liverpool and Chelsea, but how Gerrard sees it. Luckily, I think he's a sensible lad these days, having grown up so much in the last year or two, so I'm confident he'll remain a Red. But as I said in the piece, not quite 100% confident...

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2004, 09:07:23 pm »
Hope you don't mind but I posted this on .tv

No worries, Pheeny! Just mention RAWK or, ideally, use a hyperlink.

 :)

Offline AdamS

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2004, 09:09:16 pm »
Great common sense post!
If A is a success in life, than A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut.

hoonin

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2004, 09:10:47 pm »
Superb. Reading that was equivalent to a dose of paracetemol to cure the proverbial headache that this whole Gerrard affair has been.

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2004, 09:17:29 pm »
Rob - agreed, a comment would be nice. But maybe Gerrard thinks there's nothing worth commenting on? (and I'm guessing here). Silence isn't always a sign of guilt in these matters.

And has he been asked the question? Lampard was asked it, but has it been put to Gerrard? I am sure (almost!) that Gerrard is just concentrating on England right now.

Offline RedVT

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2004, 09:30:06 pm »
I am glad to see some common sense being applied to this whole issue.
You're right that Chelsea give him no more guarantee of winning things than we can provide, but we have recruited a top class coach who is proven, thus our chances should have improved.

Chelsea, like Real Madrid, have spent a lot of money, but neither of them won anything last year.
Rick Parry should, in my opinion, have stated clearly that Liverpool were not prepared to sell at any price as we want to build a team around him and he has recently signed a new contract. This puts us in a better bargaining position - we all know that in reality every player has a price. If Steven Gerrard returns from Euro 2004 unhappy we should be insisting he honours the contract he signed, safe in the knowledge that if we are not challenging we could always agree to sell him next season or the season after as he will have plenty of time left on his contract.

Selling now will only send out the wrong message to other players like Owen who certainly wouldn't sign a long term contract if he felt we had lost our ambition.
John

Offline Hinesy

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2004, 10:03:28 pm »
cheered me up.


Yep.

Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2004, 10:23:15 pm »
Rob - agreed, a comment would be nice. But maybe Gerrard thinks there's nothing worth commenting on? (and I'm guessing here). Silence isn't always a sign of guilt in these matters.

And has he been asked the question? Lampard was asked it, but has it been put to Gerrard? I am sure (almost!) that Gerrard is just concentrating on England right now.


Just a question - what do you make of Parry's comments the other day which kind of implied that we had to convince him of staying rather than someone (Chelsea) having to convince him of moving. Anything in them or just a case of publically saying to Gerrard "we're not complacent that you'll stay with us for the rest of your life but look, in the last month or so lots of changes have happened and more are due - hopefully these will be enough to keep you happy" ?
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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2004, 10:57:52 pm »
thank you for such common sense but put over so well.

Offline hogghy

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2004, 11:10:20 pm »
you said it all liverpool have tradition very little in a future thats why he's off to chelsea ,come on you blues

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2004, 11:12:59 pm »
Paul, everything you say is right but ultimately Steven Gerrard might leave for the money. I mean your speculation on how Steven Gerrard views LFC in its current state is just as speculative as all the media reports suggesting Chelsea are going to get him at any cost. Its quite obvious that if Gerrard left for Chelsea it would not be for footballing reasons but thats not to say it won't happen. Now I'm not suggesting Stevie is a mercenary or anything like that I'm just being a realist. I feel there are two camps at the moment - one who are petrified he is about to leave and genuinely think it might happen and the other camp who are, to me, being a little blase about it. I'm surprised that so many are prepared to dismiss it completely out of hand. You can have all the arguments in the world for Stevie to stay but ultimately when a £5m signing on fee, 130k+ a week, and countless other promises are being made it's one hell of a carrot to be dangling in front of you, especially when you might be fed up or tired of the pressures/weight of expectation of Liverpool. I'm sure it would cross his mind that he may never get another opportunity to earn that kind of money. Don't underestimate the power of temptation. I'm sure all of us with partners love them dearly but if Britney Spears offers her services you're gonna give it some thought. I'm not saying Chelsea are a more attractive proposition but how do we know for sure he sees it that way? Especially if, as it seems, he is having his head turned by certain people around him.

I too don't want to believe Stevie would turn his back on us, especially at this stage and I doubt very much this will happen BUT, and like wayne rooney its a very big but, I simply cannot rule it out because since when did common sense ever mean anything in football?

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2004, 11:18:29 pm »
Not that worried myself. First I believe Gerrard will stay. Second we don't have to sell him immediately because he's got a contract. If we are offered silly money, or if we desperately need lots of money (for one reason or the other), then I'd worry. Don't think it will come to that. My guess is Gerrard may have (had) a little dip in confidence/hope following GH's departure. Bentiez will sort it if necessary, but I'm optimistic Gerrard will stay. :)

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2004, 11:49:02 pm »
Fantastic post.
You've delved into the horrendous situation so deeply and answered questions many have not even considered.

If nothing, it provides great optimism.

Spot on.

Offline America's Sweetheart

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2004, 11:55:38 pm »
They should rename this forum "Opinion".


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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2004, 12:22:59 am »
They should rename this forum "Opinion".


Feel free to express yours.
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Offline Woodbury

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2004, 12:33:53 am »
Spot on Paul.  That second last paragraph really hit home.  Just brilliant.

Do you mind if I post the article on other websites if I give you credit?

Thanks  :wave
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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2004, 12:56:17 am »
no doubt liverpool have the respect and success in europe chelsea alude too, but history counts for little these days, ask spurs and notts forest fans about that! gerrard will move to the bridge, yes the money will influence him, but he also reconnises a team with a more realistic chance at a top trophy than at liverpool. profe of that maybe in the fact that for the first time ever london clubs came first and second in the top league in england! money talks!!

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2004, 01:11:26 am »
Can't wait til abramovich gets bored of his hobby and chelsea do "implode". Chelsea vs Southend Utd, can't wait for that!

F**k off Abramovich :upyours

Offline Magicrico

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2004, 01:25:16 am »
well, i dont have much to say to be honest apart from (in my opinion) that didnt help at all. your are just one sided looking from it. if you look at it from a neutral fans point of view then you would see it completely different. first things first we liverpool fc may have won more than chelsea in the past, but what about presently?? who looks to be up on the rise us or them... them is from my point of view, second in the prem ahead of man u and semi finalist in champions league is nothing to frown about in my opinion cosidering it was there first season with all these players and money, and if they can do that in one yr, then whats to say this season coming they aren't going to do even better, and if stevie g went it would be a great loss, but a great signing for them, to me it isnt about the money it IS about winning things , right now we are just pretenders in this whole thing the prem, champions league, owens off form, none of our players even look remotely like doing any work.. by the way im just saying what you prob dont waana here but to me its the hardcore truth, no good being all positive, when really this is a negitive thing, if stevie isnt going, or isnt considering it why hasnt he HIMSELF came out and said it?? i am not hearing any1 say anything now?? same thing with rooney... until we here it from his mouth then i suggest we be worried... all of us. i read in the papers scott parker sould come as part of a swap deal. any thoughs on that? obv hes no stevie g but...? well thats my opinion, i think he will go to chelsea, with the amount of english talent they have there now its a very nice prospect...3 out of 4 defenders they have are english, 2 are in the england team..3 out of 4 MF's are english , 2 in the england team. as for us we have stevie g and owen, and to b honest owen has been the worst player 4 england so far in euro 2004. him and lampards relationship should not be ignored, with lampard eggin chelsea on to buy him, ans the 2 of them gettin closer, dont be surprised to see him go. i think we could do wonders with the money, i no we couldnt replace him but the talent we could bring in, instead of having no money and lettin stevie do the work 4 another year is just crap. thanks stevie g for everything enjoy your career!!

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2004, 03:31:47 am »
Thanks Paul, your message is really enlightening.  Like most Liverpool  fans, I believe Gerrard will stay, but became worried when I read news that he will leave every day.

May I ask your permission to link your message to my blog?

Offline Carrafan

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2004, 06:37:02 am »
Cheers Paul

Great post, it's refreshing to read some common-sense posting when there is so much rumour and speculation. I agree that the arrival of Benitez and Cisse shoud be evidence of the club's ambition, and I hope Stevie can see past the money and realise that he wants to be a part of exciting times at Anfield.

Just one thing... Duff or Kewell? Duff every time.  ;)


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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2004, 07:00:24 am »
Paul, while your article is level headed as usual, and our proud tradition and history is always true, I do agree that we are prone to be romantic over the Club we love.   We could only hope Stevie feels the same way.  But that truth is many do not see us as the great Club we once were - and who could blame them when we have not proved our worth on the league table for more than a decade?

On the other hand, instant success - symbolised by the Real Madrid and Chelsea approach - could be a great lure.  And why does it matter to players if Chelsea go implode?  They have no roots there anyway and players can just choose another top Club if they are good enough (Viduka and Smith anyone?)   Players are now businessmen.   Football is a business and has to be handled like a business.  It is the hard reality, even we do not like it.   To digress a little, this is also why we need something like the Thai deal without the baggage.

What worries me to no end are the statements made by Parry and Benny and the deafening silence of the Gerrard camp (not one leak or one comment from anyone close to him!).   The slience does not bode well.  There is something which we do not know and which cannot be dismissed lightly.

But one point I agree wholeheartedly:  I can understand it if Stevie want to go in a year or two after the LFC fail his expectation.   But not now.  Not when we have a good coach coming in and a squad, albeit not a perfect one but one already have a good spine and some very fine players.   Well, Stevie does not owe us or the Club anything to stay.  However, the timing of the decision to go, which I hope he never needs to make, would have us remembered him as a businessman or a Kopite as he claims himself to be.


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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2004, 09:01:10 am »
I'm not sure if you want to hear the view of an outsider here, but I don't see the common sense in that article by Paul Tomkins. I see sentiment and emotion, born out of hope, not rational consideration of what we currently know.

We do know that Rick Parry has talked about "you cannot keep a player against his wishes", he wants Steven to re-consider it (it=what?), he talks about persuading him to stay etc. Trustable columnists like that guy from Guardian and Bascombe from Echo (possibly after consulting LFC first?) talk about Steven leaving, not as a rumour, but a concrete worry.
The piece from Benitez yesterday wasn't comforting either, when he talked about team being more important than individuals in the context of the SG transfer rumour.

We do know, and Echo reported it, that Benitez went to the England camp to persuade Steven to stay.

There is no chance on earth that SG would not have been made aware of the huge speculation of him abandoning Liverpool, by his agents, family, friends etc. He was even asked a question about it by the media, which he dodged.

It's not just your everyday tabloid rumour, when all broadsheets print it, all radio stations air it, Parry does not deny it but gives comments that strenghten the rumour, Benitez does not deny it but gives comments than strenghten the rumour, Echo who does not invent stuff about LFC (to my knowledge) are taking it seriously. It's naive to pretend that e.g. Bascombe would not be in the know, and merely speculating.

Just Kenyon playing with matches?? You call that common sense?? It's wishful thinking to the extreme. I'm sad to say it, but it really is.

I'm equally worried of Chelsea ruining the fabric of British football with their endless money, but what does it help to close your eyes here??

Do you really believe that what is written on these forums, will affect Gerrard's decision whether he will stay or go? He comes to read comments on RAWK and decides sod it I'm off??? That's hmm.. *something*

There is no ban in place that would prevent him from denying this rumour. He could come out and say it himself, or he could get the message across to e.g. Bascombe. The silence here is admittance of guilt unless Gerrard really is blackmailing the club into bowing to his wishes "about 3-4 world class players", as has been suggested by some.. but it sounds very unlikely, SG thinking he is bigger than the club and acting in such way?

All he had to do, to stop the unrest, pain, anxiety, uncomfort etc. this saga is causing Liverpool fans, would be to come out and say: There is no truth in these rumours whatsoever, I can assure that I will be captaining Liverpool next season. I'm staying and that's it.

The point, about Benitez on which most of Tomkins' reasoning is based, is not a logical point. Parry said in beginning of June that the new manager would be unveiled in two weeks time - and he was. Most probably when Gerrard and Parry met in start of June, Gerrard was told of the appointment of Rafa Benitez as well as the imminent sale of Emile Heskey and the sale of rest of the dead wood (if possible).

Hope, faith and wishful thinking no matter how appealing they seem, do not equate logical reasoning.

You can start by asking yourselves why would Parry come public with such comments that fuel the rumours and put SG in bad light, if it was just Kenyon playing with matches? It doesn't make sense, right?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2004, 09:05:35 am by surrealisticPINT »

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2004, 09:20:20 am »
A few points:

Yes, it is my opinion. Hence my name appears under the "opinion" section on the front page; the only place for articles is under the news section, but it was not presented as "news". Please feel free to agree or disagree with it!  :)

As such, I am trying to present a counter-argument to the *news* that he is leaving. Maybe he is. But I've seen nothing to suggest it's a fait accompli. Had it been Arsenal in for him (and they can't afford his left leg, thankfully) then I could see the lure of playing alongside his hero (Viera) and firing balls through to Thierry Henry, in the best team in Europe last season (and again, that's just my opinion). I don't get the sense that Gerrard is desperate to live in London (he seems rooted in Liverpool). I don't believe he's dreamed of playing for Chelsea since he was a kid. Until March, he'd never heard of Jose Mourinho, so that's hardly a long-held ambition.

Maybe I am doing Chelsea a disservice; they may well end up a top club (I expect they'll do okay over the next five years!). Of course they have a lot going for them - it's been all-too-frequently publicised - and I don't want to start slating other clubs. But at the moment, they are just a rich club who have won nothing of any note since 1954, and nothing at all in the time Gerrard has picked up four cup medals. It takes time to prove you have what it takes. Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool have been winning the league on and off for the last 100 years. Chelsea start out having been ahead of us last season, but whereas they replaced a manager who as doing extremely well with a top manager, we replaced one who wasn't with a top manager. Therefore I'd expect a bigger leap from us. I don't expect Liverpool to win the league next season, but I do expect it to be quite tight between the top four clubs. If we buy well, and Benitez gets players sparking, we stand an outside chance. If it hasn't occurred to Gerrard that Liverpool will improve dramatically under one of the top club club managers in world football since the Millennium, then he has his head in the clouds.

Yes, the money may tempt Steven Gerrard. He would make a LOT of cash from it. But it reaches a point where it's "can I afford to buy one Porsche Boxter this week, or two?". So long as you can buy a nice house and are set up for life, it can become irrelevant. But Gerrard wasn't disillusioned with the money at Liverpool, it was the football. And that is, clearly, about to change. Chelsea are richer than Liverpool, but no more ambitious. That's the key.

Finally, thanks for all the comments on the article, and good to hear from a few familiar names (such as Tim from Timbos Goals!).



Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2004, 09:26:09 am »

Do you really believe that what is written on these forums, will affect Gerrard's decision whether he will stay or go? He comes to read comments on RAWK and decides sod it I'm off??? That's hmm.. *something*


Was this written as an open letter to Steven Gerrard? No. Was I trying to affect Gerrard's decision? No.

Thank you for your time.


Offline Hinesy

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2004, 09:45:55 am »
Firstly Paul, Low's right, your article whilst very good is still not news. ( oops - youve addressed that point in the meantime... Ben bring back the reply post thing...)

However it does raise the important questions that Gerrard will be considering and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Media whoring aside, (I've yet to see a proper article on the situation ) we have to properly think why Stevie might want to go, and as you've very well done, why he might want to stay.


The Grass is Greener/familarity breeds contempt

Stevie at the moment looks at Chelsea and doesn't see the day-to-day hassles, the problems parking, the dodgy defence, all the little 'reality' things that make a club what it really is. Chelsea, like a beautiful woman, is trying to seduce Stevie and he can't think of the times when she's grumpy and without make up and shouting and down. It's a honeymoon period.
He knows liverpool  inside out and I honestly think he's a bit bored with it all and like a kid at the fair is looking at the bright lights and thinking "I'll have some of that "

Mystery is attractive, he doesn't know what it's like there, he doesn't know the ins and outs of the club, but he does know our club and like a 7 year itch, he's bored of the mundanity and flattered by the new.

But England isn't Chelsea Stevie
But these bright lights are only seen through the words of Lampard and possibly Terry and Stevie's wee pet, Rooney, enchanted by a club that play in blue who are better than the bitters..

We've had a hard season leaving him jaded and he joins up with the 'best' ( phil neville anyone ? but that's for another thread), the SHINY ALL NEW LOVELY ENGLAND Squad. With top facilities in a hot country , where he is appreciated and so is the rest of his team, and he plays with a very good midfielder.
He'll be thinking " I like this" and though I don't doubt he's an intelligent man, one cannot help but be partly seduced by all this, all this that is NOT Liverpool. And in those moments at the tennis table with Wayne ( the thought of it....) you'd be mad not to question where you're at. He doesn't owe this new coach anything, the team needs rebuilding...
You can see why he might be thinking of other options.

But England ain't Chelsea and here's a few points for SG ( as I know he'll pop in and have a wee look about ;) )

1. He loses form
At Liverpool Houllier played him constantly. He was a lynchpin, a big fish in a smallish pond. At Chelsea he won't be. He loses form and bang he's sidelined. Think Mourhino is a sweet guy when it comes to senitment ? Nah. Even a slight injury could see him out for a good while.

2. The Moscow Globetrotters have no sentiment

Look on the website - the forum there, there was one main 'Gerrard' thread... Most of which took delight in accusing Stevie of nicking hubcaps. Seriously.

The knowledge, the history ( with due respect to all the Chelsea headhunters obviously ) and the future of that club will not be akin to Real Madrid. Sorry Lawro but you need a lot more than all the world's stars to make it work.
Secondly Real Madrid won fuck all last year anyway.

3. Liverpool Greats.

There is much talk of Stevie being a liverpool great. To be really honest he's certainly next for nomination. But he ain't on a list with Keegan. Clemence. Toshack. Kenny. Rushie. Even Fowler has more myth about him.

Don't get me wrong, I think Stevie can be. And will be. But not if he leaves now.

And if he is a dyed in the shirt red, that is as important as a couple of years brief glory ( possibly) at a club that play in



blue.




I don't know Stevie's mind, but when the cheap glory of England dims, he might think that taking a young family to London, being a smaller fry in the Moscow Globetrotters, less influence, and not captain of his boyhood club where he could become a real legend, would make him think.


I'd be gutted about him leaving. Rationally I don't think he will . Paul's article sums it up very well. It would be on logic foolish to leave, not stay as some pundits think. Doubling your salary would tempt a lot of us. But not if your life was uprooted, you were demoted, and lost the love of an army of colleagues ( for that read fans). Not if you lost the chance to make a permanent indelible stamp - a real shaping of the future of your boyhood club.


Football is a business, yes. But it's not sentiment that makes me think Stevie should stay, it's logic. For a while at least.
Yep.

Offline surrealisticPINT

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2004, 09:49:29 am »



Was this written as an open letter to Steven Gerrard? No. Was I trying to affect Gerrard's decision? No.

Thank you for your time.




I apologize if I was misunderstood. I did not mean to offend anyone, and the comment was not directed at you.
It was directed at the claims (by many people, not just yourself) that fans opinions expressed here and elsewhere might become a self-fulfilling prophecy. That to me seems very unlikely. [non serious comment]If this was even partly true, then what the heck is Michael Owen still doing at Anfield?
For some bizarre reason he has always been getting the criticism from some quarters even when he was scoring more than 1.00 per game.[/non serious comment]
Whether Gerrard decides to leave or not, views expressed here, or offal or koptalk play no or very little part, don't you think?

Offline Red Lozza

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2004, 09:56:38 am »
Fantastic article, Paul. I hope you're right about StevieG.  ???

Offline connaught

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2004, 10:46:38 am »
superb article Paul, maybe a few more of us should read this before posting pure speculation.

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2004, 11:02:11 am »
superb article Paul, maybe a few more of us should read this before posting pure speculation.


And that's what it is - speculation. Benitez has been out to speak to him, so that may have helped convince him to stay. (If he needed convincing).

Let's not forget - he's still a Liverpool player. So far, no official quotes have been made. We also had this with Fowler for two whole seasons before he left (when the time was right for LFC) - and yet had we believed reports, he'd have joined Arsenal in 1999.

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2004, 11:06:40 am »

Doubling your salary would tempt a lot of us. But not if your life was uprooted, you were demoted, and lost the love of an army of colleagues ( for that read fans). Not if you lost the chance to make a permanent indelible stamp - a real shaping of the future of your boyhood club.



Very true. Quality of life is everything; ultimately, it affects the quality of your football. If Gerrard is happy on Merseyside with his family around him, then that will be a huge part of the decision-making process. As I said: Liverpool is his home.

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2004, 11:54:38 am »
Good piece Paul,
but I think only Steve knows the whole truth.
I like a lot of others find silence frightening.
It's the same silence suffered by Ged after the last game of the season.
The communication between club and fans is at an all time low in my opinion.
Speculation is always rife close season.
What do the club do to allay fans worst fears
Stay quiet and hope it all blows over.
Frankly I have no idea who will start the first game, who will own us, or where we will be playing in the future.
Not great is it
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Gerrard Will Remain At Liverpool
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2004, 01:10:56 pm »
Good piece Paul,
but I think only Steve knows the whole truth.



Of course Gerrard is the only one who knows. I was just trying to give an alternative view to the tabloids, who seem to be talking as if Gerrard would be leaving a team like Scunthorpe to play for Real Madrid. Even if Chelsea *are* more attractive, it's a closer call than The Sunday People made out.

As for the club keeping quiet (on this, at least) then I don't necessarily agree - Parry said what he had to, Benitez said what he had to, and there's nothing new - or more - to say. If Chelsea bid the money, and we accept - then there's a story.