Author Topic: Luis Alberto Suárez Díaz - 17 goals & X assists worth of 'I told you so'  (Read 728944 times)

Offline Aristotle

  • is a bugger for the bottle. Apache tool wielder extraordinaire - especially in wardrobes. The 'Oral B' Specialist.....brushes his cavities vigorously outdoors.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,438
  • Happiness depends upon ourselves
Well what can you say after a game like this? In any other universe the headlines would be "Suarez scores 96th minute goal for 96 fans". But it isn't, sadly. For all the wrong reason Suarez dominates the headlines and I'm getting quite sick of it. Not for the things Suarez does, though he certainly does himself no favours at times. I'm sick and tired of us not fighting back and when we do, the only fighting is amongst ourselves.

The way I see it that no matter how shitty, rotten, wrong or whatever adjective you want to throw to it Suarez is one of a kind and I wouldn't have him any other way. THAT mentality Suarez has is fucking priceless. Especially so to a club as spineless as ours and has been for too long.

As a club, from boardroom to the U-10's there's an inherent lack of fight that can be attributed to not giving a fuck about anything but yourself; the last years under Evans. The manager selling out; Souness. Through incompetence at board level; too many to count. And then everything in between. We, as a club, don't have a bullish belief that we should win and we should stop at nothing to achieve that goal. There have been a lot more people who have done a lot better job of pointing out why that doesn't come from the top down. With Ian Ayre in charge of running football affairs, owners who are halfway around the world who put their trust in a the manager to single handedly take on this Herculian task. So why is it even being discussed about even contemplating letting the only person at the club, who has the sheer raw determination to do it for them, go?


Even if there isn't cause and effect there seems to be an astounding correlation with the players who go above and beyond every game, every training session (hell I imagine Suarez does it when he plays FIFA too) and the players who win things.

We have had a few of those down in our footnotes. Tommy Smith was one of those and he told a famous story once;
Quote
Smith said. "I was approached by a chap and his wife as I left the ground. I asked if I could help them and they simply thanked me for not kicking their son. He had been playing inside left for Preston ! Again, it showed the value of reputation.

And another on that repuation of his:
Quote
I did warn players. When Tottenham striker Jimmy Greaves came out at Anfield one time I handed him a piece of paper. He said: 'What's this?' I said: 'Just open it.' It was the menu from the Liverpool Infirmary. I make no bones about it, that's what I was good at. Some players were good dribblers, others good headers, I was a hard tackler and I used it to gain that 'edge' that Shanks was always looking for."
Tommy Smith doesn't sound like the nicest of people to play the game but who cares? He won things. Souness was an uncompromising c*nt on the pitch who would leave the opponent in a hospital bed whilst he polished his medals. So did Roy Keane and to an extent Vieira.

It's a universal law it seems. Marco Tardelli and Claudio Gentile made a career out of it too. If the opposition fears you they'll stay away from you. Suarez was wrong to do it but of all the things that happen what does it change? He doesn't try to end someone's career, his biggest crime isn't hurting the opposition, it's being too clever in his attempts. Carragher kicked out at Torres, after Torres had elbowed Carragher in the face. You know the things that people actually get charged with assault with in "real life" & a lot more often than biting too.

For me it's really simple - possibly too simple, but I'm a hypocritical c*nt so I don't care. Was Suarez wrong for doing that? Absolutely. Will be find another player who gives it 100% no matter the score, the occasion or the stakes - at his level and with his quality? No.

Suarez is our best player by a country mile. His fitness is almost robotic. His work rate second to none. His determination to succeed and win, for himself and the fans is something I've never seen in my life. If Suarez got banned 10 games every season I'd still have him here.
Maybe I'm idealistic but I'd rather have a player who gives 100% with such consistency, at such a high level miss a few games for being mental than have players at a lesser level, who don't try and act like saints (on the pitch mind you, most of them tend to be asshole off the pitch).

Of course I'm not happy he did it, I was fucking annoyed with him because he can be his worst enemy - and that he can't seem to learn. But he wouldn't be the way he is if he wouldn't be so on the edge. He plays for the moment and when he puts on a red shirt the world stops. Nothing in the world matters from kick-off to the final whistle. He plays to win, consequences be damned.

They say a winning mentality is something that money can't buy. That's why the cite the likes of a Maldini or a Gerrard when they say that having talent isn't good enough, you also have to "get it". Baresi, Totti, Bergomi, Carragher, Facchetti, Casillas, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Puyol. You name it. They were players that conquered the world but it meant that much more because it was for the club they loved. They were willing to risk life and limb to win it for the fans.

Well in the case of Suarez - they got it wrong. The age of mercinary footballers is upon us. Now, more than ever before, Suarez is priceless. He plays with the talent of a world class footballer, the "Fuck you - I don't want to lose!" of his inner child and the passion any supporter possesses and wants their players to show. And because of that I fucking love Luis Suarez. As far as I'm concerned there aren't enough people like Luis Suarez. They simply make the game of football what it is. No matter what team you support, Luis Suarez reaches into the very core of your soul and stirs your primal emotions. He makes you feel alive. When he is on the ball everyone moves to the edge of their seats. Your heart rate spikes, you feel a rush of adrenaline and like any player should - you experience the game with him because he personafies the love of the game. When he plays nothing else matters.

And because of all that we have to keep Luis Suarez. If there's any action Liverpool Football Club should take towards Luis Suarez it isn't throwing him under the bus - it's cloning him.

For those reasons above I love Luis Suarez. He plays the game exceptionally well and doesn't know the meaning of surrender. We should have every player at the club play more like Suarez.

Long live King Luis - let's make a fucking statue of him!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 05:36:50 pm by Aristotle »
My twitter
If Harry can get Spurs to the CL 1/4 final then he could get England to the World Cup final.

Offline Aristotle

  • is a bugger for the bottle. Apache tool wielder extraordinaire - especially in wardrobes. The 'Oral B' Specialist.....brushes his cavities vigorously outdoors.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,438
  • Happiness depends upon ourselves
Re: Luis Suarez - my hero
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2013, 08:23:16 pm »
Had to get it off my chest. Main forum is a clusterfuck and didn't feel like this should be part of the round table.


You can lock this, delete this, debate it, move it somewhere later. I just had to get it out of my system so I can think about something else.
My twitter
If Harry can get Spurs to the CL 1/4 final then he could get England to the World Cup final.

Offline Hinesy

  • RAWK Editor. Giving it BAFTA’s. 57'sy. Caramel log dealer and comma chameleon. Tory Totty Tonguer
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,311
Re: Luis Suarez - my hero
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2013, 08:49:19 pm »
Nope more than happy to leave it. Personally I find his actions indefensible.
Yep.

Offline Azi

  • eckerslike
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,715
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Luis Suarez - my hero
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2013, 09:27:25 pm »
Nope more than happy to leave it. Personally I find his actions indefensible.

on this occasion i agree with you mate nothing can be said about it whatever punishment he gets he will deserve and he will have no one to blame bar himself


Offline KiNki

  • Smicer devotee supreme, Sammy Lee impersonator extraordinaire.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,244
  • i am an_nik_ki.
    • http://hfdinfo.com/digital
Re: Luis Suarez - my hero
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2013, 09:33:40 pm »
Can't defend his bite but will defend the player to the hilt for all the reasons listed.  The man gives his all every single game. He's booted, pinched, stamped, nutted and needled away at by defenders every week, within the laws, and outside of them too.  It's not highlighted, it's not discussed and I don't blame him for blowing a fuse every now when frustrated.  As I said in the thread I wish we had more like him willing to fight every single game. 

Offline Cassiel

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,812
  • Lord, I can't go back there...
Re: Luis Suarez - my hero
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2013, 09:58:02 pm »
Nah, fuck that. Today was fucking ridiculous. The last person I saw bite someone was my three-year old when his older brother took his toy. It was the act of a petulant child and not a grown man and certainly not a Liverpool legend. When he behaves like that, the only thing that separates him from the likes of Joey Barton is the fact he can play and Barton can't. The amount of good Reds trying to see this in a different light is depressing. i know tribalism makes folols of us all but there is no way biting like some fucking toddler can be seen as anything other than disgusting. Today should have been about much more, but instead it's about Luis Suarez.
Looks like I chose the wrong day to feed the pigeons...

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,596
Re: Luis Suarez - my hero
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2013, 11:21:09 pm »
I, like all Liverpool fans love Suarez but seriously, biting another player on the field? You can understand when the adrenaline is pumping in a physical game lashing out a slap, kick or even punch. But to bite someone?

He has apologised and we have condemned it and we and Suarez should take whatever punishment is dished out with the minimum of fuss, provided it's not a ridiculous ban.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 12:46:47 am by killer_heels »

Offline Jake

  • Fuck VAR
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,148
  • Fuck VAR
Re: Luis Suarez - my hero
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2013, 11:31:42 pm »
Biting someone is wrong.

Its also not killing someone, severely wounding them, karate kicking them in the face, sleeping with their wife, calling them a fucking black c*nt etc.

He'll get the punishment the action deserves, and then get on with his job, and if our own fans drive him away with their moral indignation then I'll be more ashamed of them than I could ever be of Suarez.
I'm not vaccinated against covid and ... I don't wear masks.

Offline Aristotle

  • is a bugger for the bottle. Apache tool wielder extraordinaire - especially in wardrobes. The 'Oral B' Specialist.....brushes his cavities vigorously outdoors.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,438
  • Happiness depends upon ourselves
Re: Luis Suarez - my hero
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2013, 12:49:50 am »
Nah, fuck that. Today was fucking ridiculous. The last person I saw bite someone was my three-year old when his older brother took his toy. It was the act of a petulant child and not a grown man and certainly not a Liverpool legend. When he behaves like that, the only thing that separates him from the likes of Joey Barton is the fact he can play and Barton can't. The amount of good Reds trying to see this in a different light is depressing. i know tribalism makes folols of us all but there is no way biting like some fucking toddler can be seen as anything other than disgusting. Today should have been about much more, but instead it's about Luis Suarez.

I have no quarrels with that. But I've completely gone past the line where I still cared. Biting someone might be the dumbest fucking thing imaginable but it's also pretty much the safest, non-threatening act of aggression a player can do. I don't mind him being punished, if he gets banned (he shouldn't because the ref dismissed - but they will be sure to make an exception).

What I have a problem with is how he is treated. By all means ban the absolute living shit out of him it, but like any malicious foul it should be 3 games. The fact that we have so-called experts and even former players calling for 10 (or more) games is fucking absurd. He lost it. He acted like a spoilt brat and he let himself, his team mates and the fans down. But the idea that biting someone is worse than racial abuse (which we can debate for the rest of eternity) is beyond absurdity and apalling.

There is no denying it that Suarez completely fucked up but he is being persecuted at a level the Spanish inquisition look upon with envy. Throw the fucking book at Luis Suarez and punish him for what he did. But I will never, ever accept that biting someone - no matter how stupid, inexcusable, mindboggling and wrong - will be considered worse than this:



The very notion that these things are being discussed on similar terms is appalling to me. I won't even go into the dozens of leg breaking tackles (and honest attempts at) that are given a pass because they are part of the game. I'm not excusing Suarez's behaviour, nor do I see any reason to. All I want is the punishment to fit the crime, not the reputation of the perpetrator.

The fact that media outlets call Suarez a cannibal (the definition of cannibalism is the consumption [of the flesh] of another of your kind ... not biting someone) is sickening, downright libelous. He is abused by thousands of people on a weekly basis. Our own fans call him sociopathic and claim he would be a serial killer if he wasn't a footballer. Despite him having done nothing to suggest it, except for outbursts at the game of football.


Luis Suarez does bad things. But he is no better nor worse than any other who does. He is yet to cause a life altering injury with malicious intent - a claim many who condemn him cannot make. He repeats the actions of hundreds, yet bears the brunt of more hate than a hundred of them combined.
Tragedy is born of myth, not morality. What he did was no worse nor better - yet he is not treated the same. He is villified by moral outrage, not just reactions and I will not stand for it. If he commits a punishable act, punish him according to the letter of the law, no more, no less.

The fact of the matter is that he doesn't have to put up with this. Yet hw does and that is admirable to me. He could've pulled a Tevez a long time ago, hired a lawyer and gotten fat on a beach at home whilst earning millions. He could've requested a transfer after all that's gone through, more than once and more than twice. He could've told everyone to fuck off and leave him alone, but he doesn't.

I know he's absolutely mental when he plays. He wears his heart on his sleeve and his lizard brain trumps his cerebral one. But what point is worshipping the deities when the lives of the flawed humans are so much more fulfilling?

Luis Suarez commits 100% to everything he does. He works exceptionally hard and admirably so. His passion, desire and determination are exemplary and one-of-a-kind. He is put under pressure from every direction and he delivers, week in, week out at a top level that only a handful of individuals on the planet can. When everyone expects him to fail and surrender, he improves. When there's no point in trying, nothing to hope for, he keeps fighting, giving it everything he can until the bitter end. He's living proof that the most flawed of men can become something to look up to.

For that Luis Suarez is - and will be - my hero.
My twitter
If Harry can get Spurs to the CL 1/4 final then he could get England to the World Cup final.

Offline No666

  • Married to Macca.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,767
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2013, 09:31:13 am »
I wouldn't describe Suarez as a 'hero'. To me, he has done nothing so far to justify the tag, though he is certainly a darting, magical player, one capable of delivering that communal frisson of excitement when a stadium of 40,000+ people looks from one to the other in disbelief and glee. As for the 'bite', or attempted 'bite' - the bloke has apologised. He seems genuinely contrite. I sense none of the righteous indignation that accompanied his reaction to the Evra accusation when he felt wronged. This time, he's held his hands up, and I don't think that's entirely down to our superior new Jennifer Chang.
The Northcroft interview at the weekend was illuminating on that front: when Suarez described his wife telling him off for his on-field ferocity, all round Britain blokes recognised the big-kid-getting-a-bollocking scenario. Gerrard had difficulty finding a way of directing the street-kid competitiveness while on the professional field but got help early on. Suarez, it seems, hasn't. So he's a player who needs to find a way of harnessing his inner child while remaining fiercely competitive - and someone should steer him onto Steve Peter's couch, pronto.
John Barnes, as usual, has spoken the most sense on this. If he 'can't play for Liverpool any more', then who can he play for? I find myself nodding in agreement. Is our name so much holier than - say - Bayern Munich's that it would be acceptable for him to represent them but not us? Will he mysteriously atone for his behaviour by agreeing to a transfer? If not, then the argument is so much specious cr*p.
He's here, he's ours, he's apologised, move on. Supposedly, he was a 'Moneyball'-esque signing because he was under-valued through bad behaviour. So FSG and LFC knew the risks. We knew what his record was when we began composing chants for him. It would be hypocritical of us to throw our hands up in maidenly horror now.

Offline Hinesy

  • RAWK Editor. Giving it BAFTA’s. 57'sy. Caramel log dealer and comma chameleon. Tory Totty Tonguer
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,311
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2013, 09:43:59 am »
We must as Liverpool fans make the distinction between defending the action and defending the player. I won't even try to condone what he did but as a Liverpool player I'll defend him against the tone of the treatment he's getting from the rest of the world.
Yep.

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,382
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2013, 12:19:21 pm »
So Suarez provides one of the assists of the year, manages to handle the ball and give away a penalty with his eyes closed, scores a last minute equaliser and bites a guy for good measure, and all this against a backdrop of his usual, ninety plus minutes of waspish attacking play, and they complain. How can such a character besmirch our game? How does he ignore the claims of duty, of honour? How can this be endured, oh it shall not be endured! Won't someone please think of the children?

Please. The Skymasters are delighted, tumescent with this latest dizzying round of drama. The pictures will indeed fly around the world, and every one carrying the Premier League logo. Even as they lounge around the same couches acclaiming the finishing prowess of Jermaine Defoe, who characterised his 2006 biting of Javier Mascherano as "mischievous", they will furrow their brows and wonder aloud as to what is to be done with this animal. Column after column of glorious news, and every Esteemed Member of the Fourth Estate will clamber over the other to put a new and excoriating twist on the tale.

I was tucking in my kid last night, he's eleven. We relived the day Suarez had and we both chuckled. He knows biting people is wrong, and he also knows Suarez is a little nuts but then he's entertaining. These ideas sit quite comfortably together in his head and in mine. I would love to ask each and every person who prints or posts anything derogatory about Suarez, would you rather he hadn't done this? Would you prefer a nice dull draw, with no drama? Honestly? When all is said and done....are you not entertained?

Offline Hinesy

  • RAWK Editor. Giving it BAFTA’s. 57'sy. Caramel log dealer and comma chameleon. Tory Totty Tonguer
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,311
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2013, 12:34:22 pm »
Not for me matey, not for me. I'll admit I had a chuckle to myself, but probably like Luis' mouth, I was left with a bad taste. I simply can't and won't condone what he did, the same if it was a two footed tackle etc etc. However beyond that, I will defend and support him as long as he's a Liverpool player. I take you back to the We're All Hypocrites thread I wrote years ago. If he'd been a Chelsea player or anyone else for that matter, we'd be up in arms. But he's not, and he's a brilliant player and he's giving his heart out for us. So in this case, these things aren't mitigation for what he did, but good enough reasons (if any true red needed more than the simple fact that's he's a Liverpool player) to support him and back him and protect him from the over hyped bellicose hypocrites that call themselved the media.
Yep.

Offline Azi

  • eckerslike
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,715
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2013, 12:41:48 pm »
Not for me matey, not for me. I'll admit I had a chuckle to myself, but probably like Luis' mouth, I was left with a bad taste. I simply can't and won't condone what he did, the same if it was a two footed tackle etc etc.

no one is defending Suarez we all know what he did and will the ban/fine he gets from the fa he will have to take it on the chin as deserves it , what some fans don't get or agree with is the media witchhunt in wanting to see him being sold or banned for life yes it was bad but their has been much more appalling shit that has happened on a footballing pitch and has been ignored

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,382
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2013, 12:49:21 pm »
Not for me matey, not for me. I'll admit I had a chuckle to myself, but probably like Luis' mouth, I was left with a bad taste. I simply can't and won't condone what he did, the same if it was a two footed tackle etc etc. However beyond that, I will defend and support him as long as he's a Liverpool player. I take you back to the We're All Hypocrites thread I wrote years ago. If he'd been a Chelsea player or anyone else for that matter, we'd be up in arms. But he's not, and he's a brilliant player and he's giving his heart out for us. So in this case, these things aren't mitigation for what he did, but good enough reasons (if any true red needed more than the simple fact that's he's a Liverpool player) to support him and back him and protect him from the over hyped bellicose hypocrites that call themselves the media.

I don't disagree, necessarily. If I discuss the matter with you or any other proper Liverpool supporter, I will happily concede that what Suarez did was a baffling act of utter stupidity. But after "Rafa's Rants", and poor beleaguered Evra, and the Keyes/Gray/Hodgson triumvirate, and the LMA shakedown team of Ferguson and Allardyce, and the "sign on" chants now free to air at every ground, I couldn't give a rattling fuck what anyone else thinks. Sky, other supporters, "expert" commentators, featured columnists and all the other little piggies at the PL trough, they can cram their snouts in, breathe deep and go fuck themselves.

Offline Hinesy

  • RAWK Editor. Giving it BAFTA’s. 57'sy. Caramel log dealer and comma chameleon. Tory Totty Tonguer
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,311
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2013, 12:54:00 pm »
I don't disagree, necessarily. If I discuss the matter with you or any other proper Liverpool supporter, I will happily concede that what Suarez did was a baffling act of utter stupidity. But after "Rafa's Rants", and poor beleaguered Evra, and the Keyes/Gray/Hodgson triumvirate, and the LMA shakedown team of Ferguson and Allardyce, and the "sign on" chants now free to air at every ground, I couldn't give a rattling fuck what anyone else thinks. Sky, other supporters, "expert" commentators, featured columnists and all the other little piggies at the PL trough, they can cram their snouts in, breathe deep and go fuck themselves.

Abosfuckinlutely fella.

Azi mate, please take that quote in context of the whole thing. I happen to agree with you.
Yep.

Offline Jake

  • Fuck VAR
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,148
  • Fuck VAR
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2013, 03:17:30 pm »
The fans on here that are all "I'm done with Suarez, he's a disgrace to the shirt, sell him" are worse than any bite.
I'm not vaccinated against covid and ... I don't wear masks.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2013, 04:37:55 pm »
Nah, fuck that. Today was fucking ridiculous. The last person I saw bite someone was my three-year old when his older brother took his toy. It was the act of a petulant child and not a grown man and certainly not a Liverpool legend. When he behaves like that, the only thing that separates him from the likes of Joey Barton is the fact he can play and Barton can't. The amount of good Reds trying to see this in a different light is depressing. i know tribalism makes folols of us all but there is no way biting like some fucking toddler can be seen as anything other than disgusting. Today should have been about much more, but instead it's about Luis Suarez.

Sorry Dan I am going to have to pick you up on that.

The bite was ridiculous, out of order and he deserves the shit that is coming his way as a result.  Totally agree to that point.

The Joey Barton comparison however is ridiculous and does not stand up to scrutiny at all.  Suarez appears to be a nice bloke off the field who has some sort of demons which can descend in the heat of the game.  Even then in his five years in Europe they appear to amount to just three incidents; a bite at Ajax, a bite at Liverpool and the Evra incident which I am going to avoid because in all honesty the investigation was so flawed I don't think anyone really knows what went on there.  All on the pitch, all in the heat of the match, and none of which caused any real injury.

And you want to compare this with Barton; his onfield persona is perhaps similar but that is too completely overlook the off field training ground assault and ABH of a young team mate and the six months he got for knocking a man to the ground before punching him while defenceless another twenty times, before getting up and punching a 16 year old knocking his teeth out.

If you think that all that separates them is their skill on a football field then I am lost for words mate.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline Cassiel

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,812
  • Lord, I can't go back there...
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2013, 04:45:45 pm »
Sorry Dan I am going to have to pick you up on that.

The bite was ridiculous, out of order and he deserves the shit that is coming his way as a result.  Totally agree to that point.

The Joey Barton comparison however is ridiculous and does not stand up to scrutiny at all.  Suarez appears to be a nice bloke off the field who has some sort of demons which can descend in the heat of the game.  Even then in his five years in Europe they appear to amount to just three incidents; a bite at Ajax, a bite at Liverpool and the Evra incident which I am going to avoid because in all honesty the investigation was so flawed I don't think anyone really knows what went on there.  All on the pitch, all in the heat of the match, and none of which caused any real injury.

And you want to compare this with Barton; his onfield persona is perhaps similar but that is too completely overlook the off field training ground assault and ABH of a young team mate and the six months he got for knocking a man to the ground before punching him while defenceless another twenty times, before getting up and punching a 16 year old knocking his teeth out.

If you think that all that separates them is their skill on a football field then I am lost for words mate.

Kev, I did say 'when he behaves like that' and I'm confining this comparison to the pitch.  He's nowhere near the nasty piece of work that Barton is off it. But on the pitch, his inability to control the red mist and do something utterly stupid like this pushes him out of the territory that marks players with the devil in them, of which there are and have been many, and into the realms of those with a screw loose. He needs a bit of help and I hope we give it to him. It looks we will.
Looks like I chose the wrong day to feed the pigeons...

Offline thegoodfella

  • makes reindeer pizza
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,421
  • ...siempre es posible
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2013, 04:55:02 pm »
I like the lad, he seems to be genuinely nice off the field, a family man and good company to be around. But he reminds me of that friend in your circle who keeps getting in trouble and you start wondering if he is worth the hassle. Sure there's fun to be had, laughs to share but you want to slap him on the head and tell him to grow the fuck up and have a bit of a think now and then. Maybe that's where his genius comes from though, heart on sleeve, all energy style of play, the lack of general control over how he plays or what he does. Like others, I will not be try to defend what he did, but the vilification of the Liverpool player isn't on.

Although I was asked an interesting question by a mate, what if one day we sold the lad and he makes a return to Anfield with the away team and brings with him his style of play, how would we react to it. Quite frankly, that's quite an interesting thought, one I am not yet willing to think about.

Offline BreakfastPercy

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,381
  • Follow me: @BreakfastPercy
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2013, 01:57:27 am »
Although I was asked an interesting question by a mate, what if one day we sold the lad and he makes a return to Anfield with the away team and brings with him his style of play, how would we react to it. Quite frankly, that's quite an interesting thought, one I am not yet willing to think about.
I think he'd get a great reception provided he didn't injure anybody, but let's hope it doesn't come to that!

Think I'm with you Ari. I've thought more highly of him at other times than i I did on Sunday, but I appreciated the sentiment and the why.

Offline Col

  • Shaves his tongue and shares makeup tips. May be a little camp.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,386
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2013, 06:41:31 am »
You know what? I think Ivanovic deserves some credit in this.

If I was playing and someone bit me, I'd fucking muller them. As would 90% of lads I've ever played with.

It's a disgraceful thing to do, in the same way that two-footing someone in the shin or elbowing them in the jaw is. He'll get his punishment, and rightly so. What the extent of it is, nobody knows - he's easy to make an example of, is Luis.

The club should see to it that he gets some professional help. He seems to struggle to see where the line between competetiveness and absurdity lies. It all goes a little blurry for him when he gets wound up. Many of the greatest are the same - Shearer was a dick half the time, you could faesibly spend an entire afternoon playing solely against Dennis Bergkamp's elbows, and Zidane... well, we all know what happened there.

If he could reign in that final 5%, it wouldn't take anything away from his game. He'd still be the best player in the league.

If we don't, there's always the risk that something bad - really bad - might happen in the heat of battle.

As a player, he's imperious. His desire and will to win is second to none. His self-control, however, clearly needs work. Nobody can try and find excuse for what he did there, the same way we would never excuse Roy Keane for his assault on Alfe-Inge Haaland, or Huth for stamping on whoever it is he's stamped on most recently. The other side of it that someone could very well go out with the sole intention of ending his career.

It needs to be dealt with.
I don't have to sell my soul... he's already in me.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2013, 08:23:06 am »
Kev, I did say 'when he behaves like that' and I'm confining this comparison to the pitch.  He's nowhere near the nasty piece of work that Barton is off it. But on the pitch, his inability to control the red mist and do something utterly stupid like this pushes him out of the territory that marks players with the devil in them, of which there are and have been many, and into the realms of those with a screw loose. He needs a bit of help and I hope we give it to him. It looks we will.

Fair enough mate.  I agree with the work to help him.  As long as we don't take it too far.  Those on the field demons when he keeps them shackled are what makes him the player he is.  The constant thorn in the side of defenders, the man who does not know the meaning of a lost cause.  I would hate that we turn him into an Emile Heskey, a man so nice that he felt it rather mean and unsporting to intimidate defenders with his pace and srength.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2013, 08:41:31 am »
Nice post that Col.  Agree with all of it.  I have spent quite a bit of time over the last few days laughing at the pundits comparing Suarez, the fallen hero, to our lilywhite heroes of yesteryear.

Did these people actually watch the likes of Smith, Souness and Dalglish play?  I mean watch them in the flesh. Perhaps they never bit buyt they were all well capable of "looking after themselves" as it was called back then. Retribution for bad tackles was often delivered off the ball, behind the back of the referee and in a world without instant slo-mo of every minute of every game, that is where they stayed.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline Cassiel

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,812
  • Lord, I can't go back there...
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2013, 11:40:49 am »
Fair enough mate.  I agree with the work to help him.  As long as we don't take it too far.  Those on the field demons when he keeps them shackled are what makes him the player he is.  The constant thorn in the side of defenders, the man who does not know the meaning of a lost cause.  I would hate that we turn him into an Emile Heskey, a man so nice that he felt it rather mean and unsporting to intimidate defenders with his pace and srength.

Yeah, but you can have the devil in you, sail close to the wind, wind up the oppo and generally be a brilliant nuisance, and still not act like a selfish stupid twat.

Did these people actually watch the likes of Smith, Souness and Dalglish play?  I mean watch them in the flesh. Perhaps they never bit buyt they were all well capable of "looking after themselves" as it was called back then. Retribution for bad tackles was often delivered off the ball, behind the back of the referee and in a world without instant slo-mo of every minute of every game, that is where they stayed.

I agree. But if you asked Smith or Kenny (forget Souness, his hypocrisy disqualifies him from any serious consideration) what they think about biting and they'd say it was a shithouse thing to do.

To echo Col, can you imagine if anyone had tried to bite Tommy Smith? They'd take a ten game ban rather than six months in traction.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 11:48:23 am by Cassiel »
Looks like I chose the wrong day to feed the pigeons...

Offline Hinesy

  • RAWK Editor. Giving it BAFTA’s. 57'sy. Caramel log dealer and comma chameleon. Tory Totty Tonguer
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,311
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2013, 03:32:58 pm »
I've moved this thread over to try and have a sensible debate on Suarez. PLEASE don't let it descend into morally outraged from Chester, nor arguments about how less/more of a red you are...
Thanks.
Yep.

Offline Cpt_Reina

  • Vibranium goalie gloves.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,661
  • YNWA
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2013, 03:49:02 pm »
He doesnt care that everybody hates him, and that's what makes me love him.

We as a club are anti-hero's. We're on the outside looking in in so many respects. Suarez fits it down to a tee.

Bite, kick, dive, anything to gain an advantage. Nobody likes us as it is, so we should just take ownership of it. Fuck being everyone's second favorite team. Those days are long gone.

Come over to the darkside, its much more fun!

Offline Hij

  • Literally Custom-titlely neglected for literally over a decade, Ruud.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,025
  • Justice for Anne Williams. Justice for the 97.
    • Grime Forum
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2013, 03:53:08 pm »
I still love him. I think he did something angry in the heat of the moment and regrets it. There are years between the two incidents so it's not every week. Who here has never been angry at themselves for fucking up and booted something on the floor, slid in hard on someone, punched someone, unless you are angelic, you cannot take any moral higher ground. I think in a flash of madness, frustration and unpent anger he's taken it out on Ivanovic. It's out of order, it's not very nice, but it is very much human. Human being's make mistakes. But he needs to find a way to stop making them. I hope he can.
Justice for Anne Williams. Justice for the 97. Justice for the Survivors.

Istanbul 2005. Athens 2007. Basel 2016. Kiev 2018. Madrid 2019. Paris 2022.

Offline Aristotle

  • is a bugger for the bottle. Apache tool wielder extraordinaire - especially in wardrobes. The 'Oral B' Specialist.....brushes his cavities vigorously outdoors.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,438
  • Happiness depends upon ourselves
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2013, 04:02:06 pm »
He doesnt care that everybody hates him, and that's what makes me love him.

We as a club are anti-hero's. We're on the outside looking in in so many respects. Suarez fits it down to a tee.

Bite, kick, dive, anything to gain an advantage. Nobody likes us as it is, so we should just take ownership of it. Fuck being everyone's second favorite team. Those days are long gone.

Come over to the darkside, its much more fun!

If I had the free time and the skills I'd photoshop Suarez into this and make it into a banner
My twitter
If Harry can get Spurs to the CL 1/4 final then he could get England to the World Cup final.

Offline Earl of Dingleberry

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,769
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2013, 04:35:23 pm »
Come over to the darkside, its much more fun!


Offline JongWK

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,162
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2013, 04:42:10 pm »
Statement from Diego Lugano, captain of Uruguay's national team:

"I send Luis a big hug in these moments when they are kicking him in the ground. All of us who compete at a thousand pulsations and maximum adrenaline are exposed to make a mistake.

Luis is the most competitive of all. He made a mistake and apologized for it. The same way a defender is mistaken when he looks for a striker's leg instead of the ball, or when a manager, referee, journalist or even chairmen are mistaken without the adrenalin of competition.

The group supports him because the quality of people is seen on a day to day basis. People who work with him like him, respect him, and protect him; be it in Uruguay, Netherlands or England. That's the most important thing in life."


"I look at him doing all sorts of crazy shit and mostly I burst out laughing at his insane genius.
I mean, if his first reaction to a ball bouncing in front of him 40 yards from goal is 'I'm going to whack this into the net from here', you just have to laugh at the sheer improbability of it all."
~~Ray K, on Luis Suarez (Liverpool 5 - Norwich 1)

Offline lobsterboy

  • Sworn enemy of crayfishgirl. Likes to draw spunking cocks n balls at sunday school
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,894
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2013, 04:56:31 pm »
I love him. He's a nutter but he's a brilliant footballer and great entertainment. The bite was stupid granted but the furore over it is verging on insanity. Cameron commenting after only last week idolising and canonising a murderous evil bitch is the final straw for me.

Offline justsean

  • Two goals in his first two minutes of match commentary. Take a bow...
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,847
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2013, 05:46:07 pm »
Well in Lugano !

He needs to be fine tuned. Keep the erratic, crazy, nobody knows what he's going to do next side of his personality but without the petulant kicking out and biting.

As others have said if you try to calm him down completely you lose pretty much everything that makes him one of the world's finest footballers.

Offline Pistolero

  • BELIEVE. My bad. This. Lol. Bless. Meh. Wow just wow. Hate on. The Ev. Phil.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,867
  • A serpent's tooth...
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2013, 06:04:56 pm »
Nice statement from Lugano that...
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline Not A Scouser

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 498
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2013, 06:08:19 pm »
He's a great player. 

I don't know him off the pitch and never will so all I have to go on is from watching him play.  He's a nasty player, biting, stamping, lying, diving.  It's not necessary to do these things to be a good player, most of our team doesn't. I don't like watching nasty players on any team.  Luis Suarez is our best player but I don't like him.

I have no illusions about the chances of professional footballers remembering that this is a game for our entertainment rather than a life or death struggle, that's part of why they are professional footballers, and so players doing nasty things on the pitch will continue.  I have no illusions that winning is not far more important than what is done to win for most people.  The extent of my "moral outrage" is that I prefer people who are nice to nasty, and when supporting a team I prefer my team to be made up of nice players, not nasty players.

He's a great player and a hell of an entertainer, I laughed and laughed when he scored the goal with the last touch of the ball against Chelsea as it was just too perfect a story.  I want him to play well, to score goals, to be great at football.  I will cheer when he scores.  I don't like him at all.

Offline Pistolero

  • BELIEVE. My bad. This. Lol. Bless. Meh. Wow just wow. Hate on. The Ev. Phil.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,867
  • A serpent's tooth...
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2013, 06:26:51 pm »
He's a great player.  <Snip>

Fixed it.
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline Virna

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 494
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2013, 06:38:55 pm »
He needs a psychologist...  maybe a psychiatrist.

But I like him, just hope he gets better.

Offline Aaron Rattray1

  • Almost a new record in rEceiving the pOsting bEfore tHinking aWard. needs to get a shift on.
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
  • Grimsby town and Liverpool fan
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2013, 06:41:11 pm »
A world class player, no doubt about that, but his conduct on the field leaves alot to be desired, it is a good touch that he asked for his wages to go to the hillsborough family support group

Offline Flinstone

  • Whatever you like. Would like to slip it in without making it awkward... Chinese Information Minister
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,747
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2013, 07:04:43 pm »
Hmmm....i don't know...take a step back and think about it...there are lots of players playing at the same level as suarez without this much baggage.

You like him because he fights for every ball,doesn't give up but i think there are quite a few "winners" like that even if it isn't as in your face.

If he learns to internalize this aggression i think he can become better
The West is finished, China is the future

Offline Quaid

  • Thinks clinical is cretinous. Takes one to know one.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,237
Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2013, 08:19:47 pm »
In no way am I condoning Luis' actions on Sunday, thats not acceptable on the football pitch. But the media hype surrounding the whole incident is totally disproportionate when in comparison to the media attention directed towards other incidents such as potential career ending tackles. I started a thread about dangerous tackles in the flagpole corner few weeks back, and basically discussed how the bans which accompany malicious, career ending tackles aren't lengthy enough. Lets be honest, unless Suarez has Rabies, Ivanovic won't suffer any long term physical effects from the incident. He might forever grimace when he sees people around him bare their teeth in either happiness ( ;D) or anger ( :no), but I'm sure he's tough enough to overcome that particular psychological barrier. I think a 5-7 match ban would be suffice for 'the bite', which has had no short term, let alone long term effects on the 'victim'.

Reports have suggested Suarez and Ivanovic had an altercation in the tunnel at half time. If this is the case, Suarez was obviously worked up and he let his frustration get the better of him. This isn't the first time he's let his anger get the better of him, the Technical Director of Nacional (his first club) said he was sent off when he was 15 for head butting a referee! Although calculated aggression often goes hand in hand with a passionate desire to win matches, it can spiral into uncontrollable anger in certain situations. I hope Suarez can learn to control this anger that he develops when he's on the pitch, because as was said in the OP, the guys desire to win is unrivalled in World football, and he's currently the best hope we have of breaking back into the top 4.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 08:21:31 pm by Quaid »
“By definition, you have to live until you die. Better to make that life as complete and enjoyable an experience as possible, in case death is shite, which I suspect it will be.”