Topic: The 2021 Formula 1 “Gives you whinge…”

[voodoo ray]

Don't be a Tory, mate.

You know what I was getting at. They should still contribute.

if someone moves overseas and lives overseas then they're no longer a citizen of this country.

if they then choose to piss and moan about the state of public services in this country from where they are, then that's a problem and they should be called out on it.

[clinical]

What does that even mean?

Happy for the rich to simply move away to dodge tax. Similar to offshore accounts. It's pure Tory thinking to think the rules don't need to change to stop the rich doing that so easily whilst not contributing anything.

Hamilton got such a bashing for it in the press, I wonder if Norris will.

Either way Norris was wearing a helmet in support for the NHS but doesn't seem to want to help himself.

[El Lobo]

Happy for the rich to simply move away to dodge tax. Similar to offshore accounts. It's pure Tory thinking to think the rules don't need to change to stop the rich doing that so easily whilst not contributing anything.

Hamilton got such a bashing for it in the press, I wonder if Norris will.

Either way Norris was wearing a helmet in support for the NHS but doesn't seem to want to help himself.

He didn't say he was happy for it though, he said 'you can't really stop people moving away from England' which is you know....right.

[clinical]

He didn't say he was happy for it though, he said 'you can't really stop people moving away from England' which is you know....right.

Of course you can't but the rules should be able to change about how income tax is paid if you live abroad, especially in tax havens.

[voodoo ray]

Of course you can't but the rules should be able to change about how income tax is paid if you live abroad, especially in tax havens.

I'm still waiting to see what "rules" you mean.

[El Lobo]

Of course you can't but the rules should be able to change about how income tax is paid if you live abroad, especially in tax havens.

You think there should be rules that say non-citizens of a country should pay tax to a country. I fear you've as much chance as the rule I want to enforce involving Scarlett Johanson.

[clinical]

I'm still waiting to see what "rules" you mean.

That's for the Government not me. But in principle do you agree people can simply move to tax havens to stop paying tax?

The rule wouldn't be to stop them moving, obviously. But maybe a way to make them still contribute. I have no idea for certain where Norris will be paid from but I'd guess it will be from Mclaren HQ in Woking but if he's in Monaco 6 months and 1 day he doesn't have to pay tax on that income.

[clinical]

You think there should be rules that say non-citizens of a country should pay tax to a country. I fear you've as much chance as the rule I want to enforce involving Scarlett Johanson.

Absolutely. But to be fair to Corbyn he wanted to do something about it.

[kevlumley]

His dad is worth a few hundred million. It isn't like he needs the extra money.

It seems that way to us, but i am sure people with a lot of money are as careful with it as those without. The charitable donation would be a nice gesture though and is morally the right thing to offer.

[scatman]

So im British and I live abroad, am i supposed to pay income tax in the UK too? Should I be double taxed? WTF are you loons on about? F1 drivers hardly spend any time in the UK anyway. So paying their fair share would be for the week or two they are actually in the UK right? Paying for services etc blah fucking blah. Such an insular fucking mindset. Hamilton continually gets shit about it, yet hes actually one of the biggest taxpayers in the UK.

I can understand not wanting people who are actively living and working in the UK, own businesses in the UK and are British that move to a tax haven, but these guys spend hardly any time in the country.

As for the oh they were brought up in the UK and used services like education and the NHS when they were here. Yeah that's what their fucking parents paid taxes for.

Must be some new rule that whatever nationality you are is where you're supposed to pay your taxes. It's a good idea, let's do it and watch the UK's tax income dwindle as millions of Europeans and Commonwealth citizens pay taxes to their home countries instead of our treasury whilst using our services.

[Nobby Reserve]

You think there should be rules that say non-citizens of a country should pay tax to a country. I fear you've as much chance as the rule I want to enforce involving Scarlett Johanson.

If you're a US citizen, you have to declare all income to the IRS regardless of where you live in the world or where you earn money in the world. Then you are liable to pay federal taxes on that.

I'd love to see that adopted here for the UK. Any taxes paid in another country could be offset against UK taxes (eg, a person lives and works in country A and pays 15% tax; could offset that to pay just 5% UK tax)

I hate tax dodgers. Selfish c*nts - usually have millions banked, too, so can afford to pay their fair share of tax.

[scatman]

If you're a US citizen, you have to declare all income to the IRS regardless of where you live in the world or where you earn money in the world. Then you are liable to pay federal taxes on that.

I'd love to see that adopted here for the UK. Any taxes paid in another country could be offset against UK taxes (eg, a person lives and works in country A and pays 15% tax; could offset that to pay just 5% UK tax)

I hate tax dodgers. Selfish c*nts - usually have millions banked, too, so can afford to pay their fair share of tax.

Right so if I'm paying more in the country I live in are you gonna give me money back?

[Skeeve]

If you're a US citizen, you have to declare all income to the IRS regardless of where you live in the world or where you earn money in the world. Then you are liable to pay federal taxes on that.

I'd love to see that adopted here for the UK. Any taxes paid in another country could be offset against UK taxes (eg, a person lives and works in country A and pays 15% tax; could offset that to pay just 5% UK tax)

That situation does apply to us poor plebs, I worked for a few years in Germany and during the first year I was still being paid by the uk part of the company and they had to get my taxes done in both countries and then the uk ones were offset by the amount I paid during that time in german taxes.

It should be the same for these people like F1 drivers who are still being paid by a company based in the UK rather than Monaco, just like it should be the case for companies like Amazon who earn money over here and then pay it into Luxembourg or wherever.

[Wild Romany Boy]

Without getting too much in to it, I think it's pretty telling that Lewis Hamilton's name is bandied around with this issue, rather than someone like Gary Barlow.

[kevlumley]

@Wild Romany Boy - Yep

[FlashGordon]

Gary Barlow's name was mentioned in a different thread to this in relation to tax avoidance just a few days ago.

[Wild Romany Boy]

Gary Barlow's name was mentioned in a different thread to this in relation to tax avoidance just a few days ago.

I'm not really talking about RAWK as a whole, more the idea that you'll see Gary Barlow all over events such as Children in Need asking us to stump up, when he could just pay his taxes.

In the general public, I have seen more condemnation of Hamilton for it than I have seen Gary Barlow.

Might be my own confirmation bias, but I wasn't telling on anyone in this thread or on this forum.

[FlashGordon]

I'm not really talking about RAWK as a whole, more the idea that you'll see Gary Barlow all over events such as Children in Need asking us to stump up, when he could just pay his taxes.

In the general public, I have seen more condemnation of Hamilton for it than I have seen Gary Barlow.

Might be my own confirmation bias, but I wasn't telling on anyone in this thread or on this forum.

Oh in general I agree, I thought you were referring to these boards specifically.

[Skeeve]

I'm not really talking about RAWK as a whole, more the idea that you'll see Gary Barlow all over events such as Children in Need asking us to stump up, when he could just pay his taxes.

In the general public, I have seen more condemnation of Hamilton for it than I have seen Gary Barlow.

Might be my own confirmation bias, but I wasn't telling on anyone in this thread or on this forum.

I think you are right, but the biggest attention Hamilton got about the issue was due to his tax-dodging when buying a private jet wasn't it, the bigger single item attracts more attention than a longer term but less headline-grabbing pattern of avoiding tax.

[Graeme]

I thin part of the reason Hamilton gets a harder time is he often preaches on a wide range of issues whereas others don't. Yes he's flogged his private jet the fact is he owned one and for years used it significantly both professionally and privately. 

[FlashGordon]

Being associated with Children in Need is preaching a bit as well though.

[Wild Romany Boy]

Oh in general I agree, I thought you were referring to these boards specifically.

I certainly have my issues with some of the general sentiment with the boards as a whole, but, whilst he raises debate, I think most people are pretty fair to Hamilton on the F1 boards and wider RAWK.

Changing topic: I still think Verstappen wins the title, and I think he will do it by 8 points. Anyone else have any thoughts?

[west_london_red]

That's for the Government not me. But in principle do you agree people can simply move to tax havens to stop paying tax?

The rule wouldn't be to stop them moving, obviously. But maybe a way to make them still contribute. I have no idea for certain where Norris will be paid from but I'd guess it will be from Mclaren HQ in Woking but if he's in Monaco 6 months and 1 day he doesn't have to pay tax on that income.

I’d go for something much simpler and say if you want to live in Monaco, race under a Monaco flag, would be quite funny having 80% of the drivers representing the same country (but a bit unfair on Charles Leclerc I suppose!)

[bradders1011]

Anyway, track looks appalling for overtaking.

[Andy82lfc]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/02/grenfell-survivors-outraged-by-lewis-hamilton-car-sponsorship-deal

Same as some have said he has very little control over who his team choose to get sponsorship from, but all the speaking out on certain issues, including Grenfell, opens him up to hypocrisy from some.

[TepidT2O]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/02/grenfell-survivors-outraged-by-lewis-hamilton-car-sponsorship-deal

Same as some have said he has very little control over who his team choose to get sponsorship from, but all the speaking out on certain issues, including Grenfell, opens him up to hypocrisy from some.

I don’t think most of us would have had a clue that there was a link to Grenfell though to be honest…

[cormorant]

Max's title permutations for this weekend for ease of reference for everyone:

Verstappen finishes first + fastest lap / Hamilton P6 or lower

Verstappen finishes first / Hamilton P7 or lower

Verstappen finishes second + fastest lap / Hamilton P10 or lower

Verstappen finishes second /Hamilton scores zero points

[Dull Tools]

The worst thing about it is they all choose to live in Monaco which is a 1960s concrete shithole.

Also whatever they save in paying tax they will pay in being ripped off for a flat there instead of being able to by a big house in the UK.

[paulrazor]

ill be honest and say I would do the same if I was them

I would still donate money to charity obv

[Dull Tools]

ill be honest and say I would do the same if I was them

I would still donate money to charity obv

I don't think it is worth the hassle to be honest. Especially to live in Monaco.

I would rather just live my life. There are also much easier ways to not pay tax if thats the only reason.

[El Lobo]

I don't think it is worth the hassle to be honest. Especially to live in Monaco.

I would rather just live my life. There are also much easier ways to not pay tax if thats the only reason.

I wouldnt seek to defend anyone deliberately dodging tax......but I can't imagine most of these guys spend much time in their home countries anyway. The season runs for 9 months of the year, I'd imagine much of it is living out of a suitcase. If you're not tied down with a family, its not a surprise they gravitate towards places like Monaco or America instead of England.

[voodoo ray]

I think young f1 drivers move to monaco just because that's what young f1 drivers do. people do like to follow the crowd and do the done things.

[iamnant]

Max's title permutations for this weekend for ease of reference for everyone:

Verstappen finishes first + fastest lap / Hamilton P6 or lower

Verstappen finishes first / Hamilton P7 or lower

Verstappen finishes second + fastest lap / Hamilton P10 or lower

Verstappen finishes second /Hamilton scores zero points

Holy shit some actual F1 chat at last.

Can't see it happening for Max this weekend, but stranger things have happened this season!

[Dull Tools]

Holy shit some actual F1 chat at last.

Can't see it happening for Max this weekend, but stranger things have happened this season!

Realistically a win for Max this weekend all but wraps it up.

Would be great if there were no more than 10 points between them going into the last race. For that to happen Hamilton realistically needs to finish above Max weekend.

Is this a Merc or Red Bull track?

[kevlumley]

In at least one season in the past, the last race was a double pointer. Is that still the case? Haven't seen in mentioned, so i am assuming it is not the case.

[voodoo ray]

In at least one season in the past, the last race was a double pointer. Is that still the case? Haven't seen in mentioned, so i am assuming it is not the case.

it happened once and thankfully it's never happened again.

[voodoo ray]

quite a stringy looking track. but it does look finished

[CowboyKangaroo]

Of course you can't but the rules should be able to change about how income tax is paid if you live abroad, especially in tax havens.

There are international treaties preventing that sort of thing. Whilst the UK has shown itself to be fairly comfortable flouting certain international obligations, I can't say I'd ever commend further disregard to these agreements. DTAs exist for a reason - you should only pay income tax once and we can't force countries to levy a particular tax rate (even if that tax rate is set at zero in said country)

[paulrazor]

In at least one season in the past, the last race was a double pointer. Is that still the case? Haven't seen in mentioned, so i am assuming it is not the case.

2014 only iirc

It actually meant the title was still alive in the last race but thankfully wasnt won because of it

trivia : Williams would have the record for most constructor points in a race, they were 2nd and 3rd that day. worth 66 points

most points ever won by a team in a race, and they didnt even win the race

[kevlumley]

2014 only iirc

It actually meant the title was still alive in the last race but thankfully wasnt won because of it

trivia : Williams would have the record for most constructor points in a race, they were 2nd and 3rd that day. worth 66 points

most points ever won by a team in a race, and they didnt even win the race

Wow, life sped up at a million miles an hour, didn't realise it was that long ago. Just reading about it now. Thanks