Author Topic: The Murder of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.  (Read 253282 times)

Offline TepidT2O

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I might say your position is too. Given the circumstances.
Well, it’s an opinion, I will give you that.
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Offline classycarra

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Wait though, when someone brings up any talk of revolution, the sort of action required to enact those large scale changes, that's also talked down?

I'm not sure wide reaching change is talked down is it? But revolution? Maybe.

Are there any good case studies of revolutions within democracies that have managed the nuance and stamina to unpick and narrow complex structural inequality?

Offline didi shamone

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I'm not sure wide reaching change is talked down is it? But revolution? Maybe.

Are there any good case studies of revolutions within democracies that have managed the nuance and stamina to unpick and narrow complex structural inequality?

Well trump did win an election :o


Scatters

Offline Dench57

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Offline didi shamone

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I agree that the vast majority of Police Officers do a good job both here and in the US.

But are you saying that you're against rooting out and getting rid of those that are abusing their power?

Or are you saying that because most are pretty good, you're not bothered about people getting murdered on a weekly basis by the bad ones?

You think people being murdered by the people that are supposed to be protecting them is fine and everyone should move on?

Fair play on the first point.

Three decisive nos on the other three. A more nuanced approach is always preferred.

I've read a few books on police departments through the years and it's absolutely correct to say they were historically racist to the core. When eventually black cops were recruited they were openly abused racially. This was accepted as part of the job. Many of these guys and gals eventually should have been seen as trail blazers and heroes. Very often it just meant they were hated in their own communities and precincts. Classic case of no good deed going unpunished. Eventually they gained acceptance at work.
They're still underrepresented in the profession but it's also fair to say their recruitment hasn't bridged any gaps between the cops and minority communities. Not every police problem is a racist issue. A point some people will choose to see as racist.
The police force in America needs serious reform. But it brings me back to the point I originally made. When the streets are the most dangerous in the western world for gun crime and rife with poverty all I see is a war mentality.


Offline didi shamone

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Bet they had a big argument about who stood on the far right. Jeremy Irons beat skeletor hands down.

Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Which one is it, though? Can't be both because there are non-white Brits as well
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Offline Macphisto80

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I mean, they just might as well hold up a swaztika banner and get it over with. Why bother hiding it?

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Edward Colston statue in Bristol has been toppled
https://mobile.twitter.com/_jackgrey/status/1269625428400132096

Online Hedley Lamarr

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Edward Colston statue in Bristol has been toppled
https://mobile.twitter.com/_jackgrey/status/1269625428400132096
The council should of tore it down years ago, thankfully they’ve seen sense and are renaming the concert hall when it reopens.

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The council should of tore it down years ago, thankfully they’ve seen sense and are renaming the concert hall when it reopens.

Where was the statue? I lived on Colston St back in the day, just down from the concert hall.


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Colston Avenue, right in city centre just before you get to the docks, probably a two minute walk from the concert hall

Offline didi shamone

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Just read up on him. Philanthropist and slave trader. There's a combo.....

Offline Dr.Kano

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Edward Colston statue in Bristol has been toppled
https://mobile.twitter.com/_jackgrey/status/1269625428400132096

The Islamic Golden Age involved the enslavement of millions of Africans. Maybe we should start tearing down Mosques?

Offline Cpt_Reina

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The Islamic Golden Age involved the enslavement of millions of Africans. Maybe we should start tearing down Mosques?

Places of worship are not the same as statues erected to immortalise racist slave owners which serve no purpose. Hope this helps.

Offline 12C

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The Islamic Golden Age involved the enslavement of millions of Africans. Maybe we should start tearing down Mosques?
Strange whataboutery.
No one is suggesting tearing down churches. Unless of course you pray to this guy before you go to sleep?
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Offline Welshred

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The Islamic Golden Age involved the enslavement of millions of Africans. Maybe we should start tearing down Mosques?

What a fucking ridiculous thing to even think let alone say

Offline Snail

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The Islamic Golden Age involved the enslavement of millions of Africans. Maybe we should start tearing down Mosques?

::)

Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Four posts only, and yet all shite. Dr. Kano, take a bow.
get thee to the library before the c*nts close it down

we are a bunch of twats commenting on a website.

Offline Macphisto80

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If you dig deep enough into any city, in any society or country around the world, you'll undoubtedly find tributes or memorials of some sort to racists or bigots throughout history that left their mark and were instrumental in the founding of infrastructure there. There's plenty of examples of it here in Ireland, for example, with streets and buildings named after mass murderers and tyrants.

Offline didi shamone

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And I got stick for suggesting not all cops are scumbags. ;D
Still think it would be better if people educated him rather than abused him.

A good analogy?   Like having a statue of hitler in a Jewish community?  Bit too far but on the right street (pun intended)


Offline Welshred

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He knows exactly what he's saying and doing, educating in this instance wouldn't work.

Offline didi shamone

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If you dig deep enough into any city, in any society or country around the world, you'll undoubtedly find tributes or memorials of some sort to racists or bigots throughout history that left their mark and were instrumental in the founding of infrastructure there. There's plenty of examples of it here in Ireland, for example, with streets and buildings named after mass murderers and tyrants.

True and I have no problem with that but a statue just feels a bit more provocative. It had a good innings to be fair..

Offline Macphisto80

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Did Covidbaby sneak past the registration again?

Offline Dench57

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Still think it would be better if people educated him rather than abused him.

Do you think someone posting off a sock account with an opinion like that is arguing in good faith?
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Offline Red Ol

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Edward Colston statue in Bristol has been toppled
https://mobile.twitter.com/_jackgrey/status/1269625428400132096

Not surprised about this. As has been mentioned people have been lobbying the council for years to remove references to the local slave traders.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain

Offline Macphisto80

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True and I have no problem with that but a statue just feels a bit more provocative. It had a good innings to be fair..
Oh, aye. I'd be offended with it just being there too. Thing is, a statue like that gets put up and no one really notices because they don't take the effort to educate themselves on who it is. They just assume because it's a nice decorative ornament in a street and makes the place look culturally attractive that it's a good thing. As I say, dig deep enough, and you'll be shocked at the seedy underbelly of most places with names and meanings.

Offline didi shamone

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Do you think someone posting off a sock account with an opinion like that is arguing in good faith?

I'll give anyone a chance. Guess I'm just more virtuous and liberal than the rest of ye 8).

Offline TepidT2O

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Just read up on him. Philanthropist and slave trader. There's a combo.....
If we just be by our standards today, yes...

But Liverpool was funded to a certain degree by the slave trade ... do you knock down the buildings, destroy history?

I don’t think there are easy answers...
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“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Online Hedley Lamarr

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True and I have no problem with that but a statue just feels a bit more provocative. It had a good innings to be fair..
There have been countless meetings and petitions to get rid of the statue, all were ignored, although they did alter the plaque to acknowledge his involvement.  There’s three or four schools named after him, a couple of streets, plenty of landmarks even a bloody bread bun. It’s absurd. I once had to explain to my sister in law who he was, couldn’t answer her when she asked why he’s held in such esteem.

Offline ljycb

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The Islamic Golden Age involved the enslavement of millions of Africans. Maybe we should start tearing down Mosques?

Terrible shout.

Offline Elmo!

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If we just be by our standards today, yes...

But Liverpool was funded to a certain degree by the slave trade ... do you knock down the buildings, destroy history?

I don’t think there are easy answers...
Glasgow is similar, and there has been a campaign over last few years to rename a lot of the streets that reference the slave trade, like Jamaica Street, and Tobago Street. I'm not sure I agree as it feels a bit like whitewashing our history to me.

Offline Cpt_Reina

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If we just be by our standards today, yes...

But Liverpool was funded to a certain degree by the slave trade ... do you knock down the buildings, destroy history?

I don’t think there are easy answers...


There are very easy answers when it comes to monuments not serving as reminders of the ills of slavery but instead celebrating those who enacted it.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Offline Macphisto80

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There are very easy answers when it comes to monuments not serving as reminders of the ills of slavery but instead celebrating those who enacted it.
Exactly. It's in honour of something, or someone, who was a c*nt. It'd be like sticking a statue up of Jimmy Saville outside a primary school. I'm not saying that in jest, just in case anyone takes it that way. It literally is just that.

Offline didi shamone

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If we just be by our standards today, yes...

But Liverpool was funded to a certain degree by the slave trade ... do you knock down the buildings, destroy history?

I don’t think there are easy answers...

Couldn't agree more. I'm sure someone can put a well reasoned argument for both sides.
Someone earlier said there are no grey areas. You're either with blm or against it. It was a ridiculous statement and the language of the zealot. There are always grey areas. I don't like seeing history destroyed but on the other hand the guy was a monster and I can fully understand why he got toppled. It's a grey area for me but obviously not for everyone.

Offline WhoHe

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Be interested to see what happens in Liverpool since we earned loads from the slave trade and have many roads named after slave traders. Penny Lane is fucked.

Offline Cpt_Reina

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Really didn't think we'd hear any arguments against the removal of a statue of a slave trader responsible for transporting over Eighty Thousand Slaves from Africa to the Americas and Caribbean

But I guess here we are? It's a grey area?

Offline jambutty

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As long as someone else brought up Liverpool's riches from the slave trade, how many of you knew this?:


In 1946, the Liverpool Constabulary carried out orders from the British government to deport Chinese sailors in Merseyside, many of whom had travelled to England as part of the war effort. They were forcibly repatriated to China.

“More than 1,300 Chinese sailors were put on specially assigned ships and sent to the Far East without notice.”

The wives and children of the men believed they had been deserted. It wasn’t until the release of declassified records 50 years later that it was revealed that more than 1,300 Chinese sailors had been put on specially assigned ships and sent to the Far East without notice.

Now Edge Hill University, working with local community group The Dragons of the Pool, will document the stories of the surviving children of the seamen for the first time.

https://www.heritagefund.org.uk/news/history-lost-chinese-sailors-uncovered#:~:text=In%201946%2C%20the%20Liverpool%20Constabulary,were%20forcibly%20repatriated%20to%20China.&text=The%20wives%20and%20children%20of%20the%20men%20believed%20they%20had%20been%20deserted.


And no one said or heard a fucking thing.

These were my people.
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Offline Red Ol

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If we just be by our standards today, yes...

But Liverpool was funded to a certain degree by the slave trade ... do you knock down the buildings, destroy history?

I don’t think there are easy answers...

You can rename buildings but a statue is just symbolic and surely glorifies its subject so it justifiably significant imo to pull it down, but if protestors set fire to building named after the same person then that’s a different thing.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain