Topic: Arsenal

[PaulF]

They should make the "UEFA family" get there in the same manner as fans.

[Ray K]

It's only when you see them for 90 minutes do you realise what an enormous rebuilding job Arsenal have. They basically need an entire back four and midfield, and I'm not sure I'd trust Emery to oversee this. Have they replaced Mislintat as head of recruitment?

[DangerScouse]

Feel sorry for those Arsenal fans, would have rathered it was those Chelsea bellends having travelled all that way seeing their team lose.

[disgraced cake]

Shit tonight. I know the final wasn't in the best of circumstances but you can't make many other excuses. Key players were poor, the strikers and Ozil especially. Think there's a player in Iwobi but he needs to score more goals next season. I think they should keep Emery because with the right additions they could win it next year.

Think in the league they'll struggle again, and I can see them finishing 7th.

[jillcwhomever]

It's only when you see them for 90 minutes do you realise what an enormous rebuilding job Arsenal have. They basically need an entire back four and midfield, and I'm not sure I'd trust Emery to oversee this. Have they replaced Mislintat as head of recruitment?

I think you're being extremely harsh on Emery he is a good manager the trouble at Arsenal is there is no foundation and they have an owner who has no intention of putting his hands in his pockets. Wenger has done more damage, then Emery overall.

[CHOPPER]

I feel for Arsenal. A club thats based on solid traditions that, in some way, mirror ourselves and I've always had a healthy rivalry with them, in my eyes, so to see them go down to a fraud of a club like Chelsea, doesn't feel fair, right, call it what you - to me.

[Red_Mist]

I feel for Arsenal. A club thats based on solid traditions that, in some way, mirror ourselves and I've always had a healthy rivalry with them, in my eyes, so to see them go down to a fraud of a club like Chelsea, doesn't feel fair, right, call it what you - to me.

I know what you mean. Was feeling the same. Hopefully we can cheer them all up a bit on Saturday.

[Red Beret]

To go so far only to lose like that. Arsenal should refund every supporter who made it out there.

[Crosby Nick]

It's only when you see them for 90 minutes do you realise what an enormous rebuilding job Arsenal have. They basically need an entire back four and midfield, and I'm not sure I'd trust Emery to oversee this. Have they replaced Mislintat as head of recruitment?

Who do they have that you’d want to build your team around? Sounds like they were bad tonight but their forwards are good. Beyond that though they need a completely new start. There’s no one who really inspires confidence.

[ABZ Rover]

Utter turd, they have almost as many issues to solve as the Mancs.  At least they have a manager with a little more clue....

[DonkeyWan]

I feel for Arsenal. A club thats based on solid traditions that, in some way, mirror ourselves and I've always had a healthy rivalry with them, in my eyes, so to see them go down to a fraud of a club like Chelsea, doesn't feel fair, right, call it what you - to me.

Nah, dead right, that was fucking shit. I mean, yes Arsenal were terrible and Ozil a  fraud, but fuck Chelsea. And that stadium was crap.

[Alan_X]

I feel for Arsenal. A club thats based on solid traditions that, in some way, mirror ourselves and I've always had a healthy rivalry with them, in my eyes, so to see them go down to a fraud of a club like Chelsea, doesn't feel fair, right, call it what you - to me.

Agree Chops but they are owned by a money grabbing c*nt. They aren’t going to get any better with him as an owner.

[decosabute]

Feel sorry for Arsenal and their fans. They're the only other big English team I generally like to see do well, but this end to the season has been, frankly, appalling.

The utter collapse in the league, where even mediocre form in the last few games would've seen them easily get in the top 4 (and maybe even knock spurs out of it), has been a little bit glossed over because they at least had the final on the horizon. But to then go down so meekly to an average Chelsea side should put it firmly back into focus. Until around mid April I would've said that the Emery era looked very promising, but, as other have said, this rebuilding job looks very daunting now after the spectacular nosedive of the past 5-6 weeks.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

https://youtu.be/Xl19eb6HFbk

2.40 in

[S]

Like most others have said, don't really mind Arsenal. Would have preferred them to win but they really didn't deserve to.

The two attackers were anonymous tonight but are both very good normally. Pretty much everyone else in the squad who isn't a youth prospect is expendable.

Ozil is the strangest one. On his day I'm the first to admit he has the touch of a genius. That was a European final tonight though and he looked completely disinterested. When he got subbed they were already behind and he walked off the pitch sulking. Bet Chelsea loved him winding the clock down for them.

[S]

https://youtu.be/Xl19eb6HFbk

2.40 in

He makes a very good point about the players not going over to the fans until prompted. Out of order.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

He makes a very good point about the players not going over to the fans until prompted. Out of order.

troopz made the same point, I get they feel like shit after that but fuck me go over and thank them for a nightmare trip

[S]

troopz made the same point, I get they feel like shit after that but fuck me go over and thank them for a nightmare trip

What did the guy behind say to make him go so mad in the video you posted?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Feel sorry for them, really wanted them to beat those despicable tw@ts. Never minded them a bit, even when they were really good, it was a healthy respectable rivalry despite some arrogant bellends they had but overall a good bunch compared to the rest

[Riquende]

What did the guy behind say to make him go so mad in the video you posted?

From the subsequent rant, I think DT was accused of overreacting for the purpose of getting 'hits'.

[killer-heels]

I dont have a sympathetic bone in my body but even I feel really sorry for the Arsenal fans. Must have been an absolute pain to get to Baku (as well as expensive) to watch your team capitulate 4-1 in the final.  Players like Ozil stroll around and probably flew back direct straight away and it will probably be pre-season by the time some fans make it back.

Reading the above about players almost not going over to the Arsenal fans was a bit ridiculous.

Their team has huge issues. They have 2 good strikers but even they are in their late 20’s and you see that replicated throughout the side. They need fresh blood all over the field. They should have sold Ozil and they should not have bought Aubamayang.

[Tobelius]

Arsenal have big issues,that's clear.

I wouldn't keep anybody of that back line and most of their midfield should go too,problem is it's going to cost a lot and finding buyers for some of their players on big contracts who contribute little is going to be difficult.

Even if they get everything right it's going to take time and patience is usually in short supply when it comes to football fans,even if they say they'll be.It's     a big rebuild and going to take some time.

Willock looked lively,it's the only plus from that match that i could see.

[royhendo]

Commiserations, Gooners.

[dirks digglers]

Commiserations, Gooners.

This. Felt bad for their fans after that. Problem is, as we know, when the owners are a problem and you’re starting to slide as a club and lose good players, it takes a lot to turn it around. New owners for one, a clear strategy, investment, a manager who buys in and is supported, and time.

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

Isn't Kroenke rich as fuck though. I mean proper rich. Just doesn't spend it on Arsenal? I said to a mate whos a gooner, apart from the front two and maybe Torerria that every player needs replacing. They look in a worse state than we've been in

Whenever we've been poor we've always been lucky with transfers I've felt (Suarez, Torres, even Sterling, Phil just the players we've had and sold) Arsenal are going to have to rebuild the same the as United, Bayern, Man it's, Barce and Real

[PhilV]

Isn't Kroenke rich as fuck though. I mean proper rich. Just doesn't spend it on Arsenal?

he prefers to spend it on the Rams or so says my Arsenal mate#

I'd be raging as a an Arsenal fan over last night, there's always gotta be a loser but the manner in which they lost was bad, game was boring at first and then when Chelsea took it up a gear Arsenal just folded, so many chances missed too, they just didn't come across to me like they were playing a cup final, the drive and intensity that such a game should bring out in a player wasn't there!

[Mister Flip Flop]

The players should refund the fans who made the effort to get to the final. An absolute shambles of an effort from every one of them.

[KillieRed]

Isn't Kroenke rich as fuck though. I mean proper rich. Just doesn't spend it on Arsenal? I said to a mate whos a gooner, apart from the front two and maybe Torerria that every player needs replacing. They look in a worse state than we've been in

Whenever we've been poor we've always been lucky with transfers I've felt (Suarez, Torres, even Sterling, Phil just the players we've had and sold) Arsenal are going to have to rebuild the same the as United, Bayern, Man it's, Barce and Real

He`s more interested in the Rams, essentially using the gooners as a cash machine (like the Glazers) for his US sports team and personal use.

Chelsea have better players than Arsenal, though they weren`t up for it as much in the first half, quality showed out. Arsenal looked better when their young players came on, but it`s hard to tell if that was just Chelsea relaxing with the job done. It kinda looked like one of our victories, the sort I was hoping for on saturday - get a comfortable lead then looked to add to the tally on the counter when the oppo have to push up.

[Chris~]

Isn't Kroenke rich as fuck though. I mean proper rich. Just doesn't spend it on Arsenal? I said to a mate whos a gooner, apart from the front two and maybe Torerria that every player needs replacing. They look in a worse state than we've been in

Whenever we've been poor we've always been lucky with transfers I've felt (Suarez, Torres, even Sterling, Phil just the players we've had and sold) Arsenal are going to have to rebuild the same the as United, Bayern, Man it's, Barce and Real

Arsenal have had players they could have sold and rebuilt the side with. Ox, ramsey, ozil and Sanchez becoming basically Mkhitaryan, aubameyang, ozils terrible contract and nothing was such terrible business. I dont think they have anyone who they could sell for decent money at this point. They have a decent crop of academy players coming through the, if they embrace a long term build approach, back a few more with decent minutes then that'd be a way of either getting players good enough for the first team squad or generating some cash.

[gazzalfc]

Can't help but feel sorry for their fans. Fucked over by UEFA and their owners. Players trying to walk off without going over to the fans is disgraceful.

The match had the feeling of one of those pre-season trophy matches in Asia or America and it showed.

Lots of work to do over the Summer and not having the lure of Champions league is going to be tough. They probably need 6-7 players in but that's just not going to happen. The main priority is to work on getting a spine of players to build around. 

You then have to start wondering if Aubameyang and Lacazette will want to stay not playing champions league football

Massive Summer needed

[Felch Aid]

Like others have said Emery needs time to sort the mess out. Just the same as Utd are finding although they've thrown shit loads of money at it and are still in a mess.

Loans, youth and a strategy. They could do with a season outside Europe - look at us we didn't get into the CL after being defeated by Sevilla but in hindsight we couldn't have coped with the squad fractured when Klopp took over.

He needs 4 windows, some shrewd loans and a some decent recruitment which arsenal were renowned for.

Long transition ahead.

I suppose the only thing with Emery is that despite his Europa success his Sevilla side were very inconsistent in the league.

You'd imagine West Ham, Leicester and the other mid table club errrr utd will be breathing down their necks.

[pathetic]

Felt sorry for Arsenal. They absolutely don't have an ounce of leadership in their team. When the going got a bit tough they just bottled it and went into their shell. Iwobi was once again the only player who was trying to make something happen and causing some problems with his runs. I actually wouldn't mind him as a sub for us.

[ScottishGoon]

Not going to lie, that was gutting. I think because so much was riding on it for us, & to then collapse like that in 25mins of the 2nd half was utter tragic.
We all know that we needed major work anyway, but it's going to be even more difficult to do with a limited budget.

Everyone is cullpable for where we are just now. The owners lack of drive & passion, to Gazidas & Wenger's horrible squad mismanagement the past couple of years, to Emery changing things at home to Palace & Brighton when a single victory in either of those games would have secured us top 4. The players...lets not mention them to much or i will be here all night.

It's time to take a long hard look at the overall club now. Our bloated wage bill is crippling us. Our outgoings this summer are just as important as our incomings. Full focus needs to be on removing the overpaid guys. Cech, Ramsey, Welbeck is just a start. Pick any of Ozil, Mkhitaryan, Mustafi, Xhaka, Kolosniac, Monreal, Elneny, Chambers to name a few. Would any of their contribution really be missed? I honestly don't care if they have to be replaced by the likes of Willock, Smith-Rowe, Reiss Nelson & Mavropanos. If it's 1 step back, to go two forward, then so be it. We just can't sustain the wage bill as is, & hope to have a decent budget for transfer windows.

[CraigDS]

He`s more interested in the Rams, essentially using the gooners as a cash machine (like the Glazers) for his US sports team and personal use.

How much cash has he taken out of the club?

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Boy, that was painful for them.

[ScottishGoon]

How much cash has he taken out of the club?

I don't think he takes much out the club in terms of cash. In the past he's taken a couple of 'consultancy payments' of £3M, but now it's back to being a private owned company, he doesn't have to disclose those payment now. He certainly hasn't put a penny of his own money in other than share purchase (i believe the only owners in the top flight not to do so). It's more the passiveness of his ownership, the lack of drive, the burning ambition. It's like he sees Arsenal as just another part of his portfollio, an asset ticking along, increasing in value for when one day he decided to sell for a nice tidy profit.

[CraigDS]

I don't think he takes much out the club in terms of cash. In the past he's taken a couple of 'consultancy payments' of £3M, but now it's back to being a private owned company, he doesn't have to disclose those payment now. He certainly hasn't put a penny of his own money in other than share purchase (i believe the only owners in the top flight not to do so).

Yeah, I didn't think he'd taken much out. Certainly not to use it as a cash cow as the person I replied to said.

Also, it may well be private but those figures would still be easily identifiable in accounts submitted to Companies House.

It's more the passiveness of his ownership, the lack of drive, the burning ambition. It's like he sees Arsenal as just another part of his portfollio, an asset ticking along, increasing in value for when one day he decided to sell for a nice tidy profit.

Agreed with the passiveness, but then you could arguably say that about our main owner in Henry. I think the difference is our guys have put in a decent system (business and footballing) and allowed the club's income to all be used to support the activity on the pitch. It's taken time but we're seeing the fruits of it now.

You lot certainly have the cash to not need the owner's too (I mean you won't compete with City, but then who can!). I'm not sure how you lot view your business side of things, but from here it doesn't look like you're doing too bad at all. So then comes down to having competent guys picking the right football people, and then supporting them.

[ScottishGoon]

Agreed with the passiveness, but then you could arguably say that about our main owner in Henry. I think the difference is our guys have put in a decent system (business and footballing) and allowed the club's income to all be used to support the activity on the pitch. It's taken time but we're seeing the fruits of it now.

You lot certainly have the cash to not need the owner's too (I mean you won't compete with City, but then who can!). I'm not sure how you lot view your business side of things, but from here it doesn't look like you're doing too bad at all. So then comes down to having competent guys picking the right football people, and then supporting them.

Exactly. Look from 2015/2016, from when we finished 2nd and you guys employed Klopp. Our stories have almost had opposite trajectories. The footballing decisions we've made since then have been poor, short sighted short termism, which might be explained in part by Wenger & Gazidas both knowing they were leaving soon, but just poor judgement in general. The list of stuff is substantial, spending substantial on the likes of Xhaka & Mustafi, unwilling to sell the likes of Sanchez, Ozil, Ramsey & Welbeck at peak value to help fund replacements, the contract given to Ozil, choosing to swap Sanchez for Mkhitaryan etc.

We have a new regime in charge of footballing matters, so they need to be given time to implement their strategy. They do recognise & acknowledge some of the failings from the old regime the last few years, so that's a start, let's see how they do about turning it around.

[CraigDS]

Exactly. Look from 2015/2016, from when we finished 2nd and you guys employed Klopp. Our stories have almost had opposite trajectories. The footballing decisions we've made since then have been poor, short sighted short termism, which might be explained in part by Wenger & Gazidas both knowing they were leaving soon, but just poor judgement in general. The list of stuff is substantial, spending substantial on the likes of Xhaka & Mustafi, unwilling to sell the likes of Sanchez, Ozil, Ramsey & Welbeck at peak value to help fund replacements, the contract given to Ozil, choosing to swap Sanchez for Mkhitaryan etc.

We have a new regime in charge of footballing matters, so they need to be given time to implement their strategy. They do recognise & acknowledge some of the failings from the old regime the last few years, so that's a start, let's see how they do about turning it around.

Yeah I think fans just need to give everyone there some time, including the owner. He may not be one who will be there often, or pump loads of money in, but at the end of the day thats not necessarily a bad thing if he lets the club spend what it earns and allows the club to develop those business and football positions. He seems like he's allowing that.

In our first season with Klopp we also lost a Europa final, so you never know...!

[Ashburton]

What I'd give to have an owner like John W Henry after that shit show last night.  Can't win them all and Chelsea have finished above Arsenal for a reason this season, but we've seen once again the lack of drive on the pitch and behind the scenes from the players which ultimately sunk Wenger and are dragging Emery, a far more dynamic manager, down - ending up in a capitulation.  The first half was encouraging but after the break the team felt 'flat' and barely lasted ten minutes before conceding. I do think Cech was poor and those first two goals were questionable keeping, but the narrative at a whole needs to be about the squad and their inability to grab big games by the scruff of the neck.  Atletico Madrid last year was a missed opportunity with a better, more organised team - but Chelsea this year all the way in the final really should have had the team busting a gut for the entire game.  We've seen from the recent Liverpool and Spurs games that there is -always- a chance, you just need to force something to happen - and I didn't believe that intention was shared by the squad from watching the game.

When you look at threads on Rawk about LFC fans talking about 'completing the squad' with a couple of signings - it emphasis I can't think of more than a handful of players I'd want to keep in to the next season who deserve to be in the first XI.  I could list the first XI and I believe about  30% of them are going to hang around for the next 3-4 years with every other position needing reinforcement.  That's a £250m rebuild right there even if you are going for 'good but not great' signings, and I'm expecting the board to need this done within two years to persuade the more gifted players to extend their contracts.