Topic: PL: Liverpool (4) Salah 20', Mane 46', 52, S v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm.

[Brain Potter]

We are a very very good team.

The referee was really bad though. VAR can't come soon enough.

The only decision VAR would have changed on Sunday would have been to disallow our 3rd goal

[bravarado7]

Wondering what's happened to the round-table thread we used to have earlier after every game. Loved reading those. Some of the post-match analysis was way better than the shit you see on telly.

[Oberyn_Martell]

The only decision VAR would have changed on Sunday would have been to disallow our 3rd goal

True.
But over the course of a season it'll ensure a much more even playing field. We'll have plenty of those descions go against us this season and it's usually more than we get the other way as last season can attest to.
Nobody wants to be sat here bemoaning luck come may. Especially when the issue can be rectified fairly easily.

[sms1986]

Wondering what's happened to the round-table thread we used to have earlier after every game. Loved reading those. Some of the post-match analysis was way better than the shit you see on telly.

I've seen a few of them but they don't seem to be all that common nowadays. Shame, really, even just PoP and Babu could make an interesting round table.

[norecat]

Well done Redmen. Delighted we didn't concede a goal. This is JK's team now. Only Milner and Firmino were inherited. Keita gives our midfield a dynamism, Alisson is an upgrade on Migs and Karius and crucially VVD is a rock at the back. Fair play to Klopp. He recognised our weaknesses and wouldn't settle for an option held out for what he believed was the best player for each position i.e. Alisson, VVD, and Keita.
I think we have our strongest squad in years. Would love to see us win the league and I feel more optimistic than I have for a long time.

PS How the feck are we getting 18m for Ings and got 12m for Ward. The transfer market is truly bonkers.

[newterp]

Well done Redmen. Delighted we didn't concede a goal. This is JK's team now. Only Milner and Firmino were inherited. Keita gives our midfield a dynamism, Alisson is an upgrade on Migs and Karius and crucially VVD is a rock at the back. Fair play to Klopp. He recognised our weaknesses and wouldn't settle for an option held out for what he believed was the best player for each position i.e. Alisson, VVD, and Keita.
I think we have our strongest squad in years. Would love to see us win the league and I feel more optimistic than I have for a long time.

PS How the feck are we getting 18m for Ings and got 12m for Ward. The transfer market is truly bonkers.

Klopp was a fan of firmino from before he even got here having seen him in Germany.

[abs-ibs]

Plus Gomez was inherited. It was just a huge gap in between his appearances coz of the unfortunate injury he picked up almost immediately playing for us.

Trent came through the ranks from a youngster so not inherently inherited but kinda inherited

So 4 out of 11 players on the starting line up were not his buys. 2 were youngsters so will be able to adapt quicker. 1 is Bobby n Klopp knew him from Germany, n the other is the man-machine named Milner, who could probably even adapt to underwater

But overall the team is without doubt Klopp's now,

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Why VAR?

VAR will ruin footy. It was shite in the WC. Waiting around for it, players surrounding the ref asking for it. The game will end up like nfl. No thanks.

Why stop the game at all? What possible reason can there be for stopping play? Treat it like subs. You wait for a break in play and another official if they decide it's a penno, or a sending off or no goal or a red card or whatever signals that when play has stopped. You stop the game there and restart it after taking the action/sending the player off or whatever.

No need to wait for anything.

[PoetryInMotion]

The only decision VAR would have changed on Sunday would have been to disallow our 3rd goal

Not really. Their defender could've easily been sent-off for a 2nd yellow (dreadful foul on Mane) had VAR been called for review.

[harleydanger]

Not really. Their defender could've easily been sent-off for a 2nd yellow (dreadful foul on Mane) had VAR been called for review.

Was it a goal deciding decision? Because if it wasn’t VAR wouldn’t have been called

[Medellin]

https://streamable.com/3ysfj

 

[Medellin]

Also..the pace & strength of Antonio here!

https://streamja.com/o7QQ

[robgomm]

https://streamable.com/3ysfj

 

AAAAAH, my GROIN.

[markedasred]

I've seen a few of them but they don't seem to be all that common nowadays. Shame, really, even just PoP and Babu could make an interesting round table.

I wonder if we ever hear or will in future, PoP and Babu in podcasts? Such erudition would not go amiss.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Why stop the game at all? What possible reason can there be for stopping play? Treat it like subs. You wait for a break in play and another official if they decide it's a penno, or a sending off or no goal or a red card or whatever signals that when play has stopped. You stop the game there and restart it after taking the action/sending the player off or whatever.

No need to wait for anything.

The ball might stay in play for 5 minutes. In that time, the guy who is about to be sent off could score.

[Fairytale of 2005]

He’s still mostly refereeing wins or draws for us, and he’s given us more penalties than he has to United. That’s my whole point here.

I have no opinion on this either way, but surely most refs will have wins or draws for us? We are a top team and hardly lose.

[No666]

Well done Redmen. Delighted we didn't concede a goal. This is JK's team now. Only Milner and Firmino were inherited. 

You forgot Henderson.

[redmark]

The ball might stay in play for 5 minutes. In that time, the guy who is about to be sent off could score.

Worse, he could (legally) prevent the other team from scoring. You could always disallow the goal retrospectively (it's a terrible idea, but you could), but you couldn't award a goal because of a legal tackle/block by a player who should have been sent off already.

[SlowRap]

Why stop the game at all? What possible reason can there be for stopping play? Treat it like subs. You wait for a break in play and another official if they decide it's a penno, or a sending off or no goal or a red card or whatever signals that when play has stopped. You stop the game there and restart it after taking the action/sending the player off or whatever.

No need to wait for anything.

So what happens if a player scores legit goal but then VAR tells you he needed to be sent off 5 minutes earlier. Do you chalk off that goal and add 5 more minutes of play? Or do you not add the 5 wasted minutes, players burned a bunch of energy for nothing then? Fans celebrated the legit goal?

[Yorkykopite]

You forgot Henderson.

And Lallana, Sturridge, Gomez, Lovren, Clyne and Moreno.

[Agent99]

Stopping the game for non head injuries is starting to piss me off now. Happened loads in the world cup and happened again on Saturday when a couple of West Ham players got hit in the nuggets almost at the same time. Is it a new rule?

We were in a decent attacking position over by the touchline but once the play is stopped they kick the ball back all the way to Alisson so our advantage is gone.

[duvva 💅]

Stopping the game for non head injuries is starting to piss me off now. Happened loads in the world cup and happened again on Saturday when a couple of West Ham players got hit in the nuggets almost at the same time. Is it a new rule?

We were in a decent attacking position over by the touchline but once the play is stopped they kick the ball back all the way to Alisson so our advantage is gone.

Just as annoying is the fact a drop ball rarely gets properly contested anymore, which we definitely should have done on this occasion.

[Ben87]

Stopping the game for non head injuries is starting to piss me off now. Happened loads in the world cup and happened again on Saturday when a couple of West Ham players got hit in the nuggets almost at the same time. Is it a new rule?

We were in a decent attacking position over by the touchline but once the play is stopped they kick the ball back all the way to Alisson so our advantage is gone.

Apparently it's just for anything serious, so head injuries, fractures, etc.

It seems if a player stays down long enough they'll stop it anyway though

[N0rnIr0nRed]

wrong place to discuss this but

have you ever seen as many pundits backing us as this year?

Really does feel like there is a tidal wave of positive energy at the club. All our team have moved passed the CL disappointment and I really think we can be very competitive this season.

Just heard Wrighty is having us for the League this year.

All I know is that we are better prepared and equipped than probably ever in my time supporting Liverpool. Maybe 08/09 but I really think our squad is on par with that.

Exciting times if we can keep performing like the first match.

[sms1986]

I think we're nailed on for top two, whether it's first or second will depend on many factors but we're going to be brilliant this season.

[Scottymuser]

Worse, he could (legally) prevent the other team from scoring. You could always disallow the goal retrospectively (it's a terrible idea, but you could), but you couldn't award a goal because of a legal tackle/block by a player who should have been sent off already.

Indeed - that's why a referee is allowed to play on and play advantage if he was going to award a yellow card to a player, but NOT if he was going to award a straight red (or second yellow), no matter the circumstances.  And vice versa, if he plays on as the ball, is say in the penalty area and a very good chance, no matter what happens they can't give a red or second yellow for the foul after that fact

[Scottymuser]

Apparently it's just for anything serious, so head injuries, fractures, etc.

It seems if a player stays down long enough they'll stop it anyway though

So, the way it worked at first was the ref had to stop immediately a head injury may have occurred, but the team's were then encouraged to carry on being sporting.  That then changed a couple of years ago to where the ref has more discretion, so a head injury = immediate stoppage, any other injury = ref's discretion as to whether he thinks treatment is needed (and if so, has to be then stopped once he believes that to allow the physio on).  The other thing is if a player is down in certain areas (so in the box for instance) which would give the other team an advantage (such as not being offside), the ref would usually blow up.

That is why you see a player staying down longer, to try to encourage the ref to believe a physio is required.  Although to be honest, the double nut shots at the weekend were clearly enough to stop the play - I could feel their pain from the sofa!

[redmark]

Stopping the game for non head injuries is starting to piss me off now. Happened loads in the world cup and happened again on Saturday when a couple of West Ham players got hit in the nuggets almost at the same time. Is it a new rule?

We were in a decent attacking position over by the touchline but once the play is stopped they kick the ball back all the way to Alisson so our advantage is gone.

Stopping the game for a defensive injury inside the penalty area has been around for a long time, regardless of severity.

[Ben87]

Indeed - that's why a referee is allowed to play on and play advantage if he was going to award a yellow card to a player, but NOT if he was going to award a straight red (or second yellow), no matter the circumstances.  And vice versa, if he plays on as the ball, is say in the penalty area and a very good chance, no matter what happens they can't give a red or second yellow for the foul after that fact

I never knew that, that's really interesting to know. I remember years ago when it was the Arsenal Barcelona Champions League final, the commentators were losing it that the ref stopped the play to send Lehman off, when Barca were about to score. But based on this, this was the correct thing to do.

[Ben87]

So, the way it worked at first was the ref had to stop immediately a head injury may have occurred, but the team's were then encouraged to carry on being sporting.  That then changed a couple of years ago to where the ref has more discretion, so a head injury = immediate stoppage, any other injury = ref's discretion as to whether he thinks treatment is needed (and if so, has to be then stopped once he believes that to allow the physio on).  The other thing is if a player is down in certain areas (so in the box for instance) which would give the other team an advantage (such as not being offside), the ref would usually blow up.

That is why you see a player staying down longer, to try to encourage the ref to believe a physio is required.  Although to be honest, the double nut shots at the weekend were clearly enough to stop the play - I could feel their pain from the sofa!

I think we should be awarded the title now for managing to inflict in double nut injury in quick succession..when do you ever see that!?

[PoetryInMotion]

Was it a goal deciding decision? Because if it wasn’t VAR wouldn’t have been called

VAR can intervene for sending off decisions as well apart from goal decisions.

[Giono]

wrong place to discuss this but

have you ever seen as many pundits backing us as this year?

Really does feel like there is a tidal wave of positive energy at the club. All our team have moved passed the CL disappointment and I really think we can be very competitive this season.

Just heard Wrighty is having us for the League this year.

All I know is that we are better prepared and equipped than probably ever in my time supporting Liverpool. Maybe 08/09 but I really think our squad is on par with that.

Exciting times if we can keep performing like the first match.

They NEED a horserace.

A lot of them see 20+ points as a chasm. But those who do the homework see how many draws we got against poor opposition with good defences. That’s a lot to make up, but there is an easier path than some would think. Palace will be an early test.

[PoetryInMotion]

I have no opinion on this either way, but surely most refs will have wins or draws for us? We are a top team and hardly lose.

Good point. Yeah, the wins & draws we've been managing to do have been despite the ref decisions rather than running through just the natural course of games. Case in example - our wins last season against Brighton (Away) - penalty given for free, for nothing to Brighton (to give them a glimpse of hope maybe when we were 2 up) and the Newcastle (Home) - Salah tripped by last-man challenge which should've been a red for Newcastle, both games we won comfortably in the end. So should we ignore those decisions because we won? Not really, because they became regular standards in our games, rather than being outliers.

Also, is it being claimed of our draws as some sort of success for refs? We drew Everton H, Spurs H and West brom H instead of winning only because of ref decisions.

[PoetryInMotion]

They NEED a horserace.

A lot of them see 20+ points as a chasm. But those who do the homework see how many draws we got against poor opposition with good defences. That’s a lot to make up, but there is an easier path than some would think. Palace will be an early test.

Yes, clearly. We had a good start, but if anyone sees the underlying stats we scored 45 goals at home (31 in the last 10 games at Anfield) last season and we only conceded 10 goals in 19 games at home (5 of them from 2 games against Spurs & City). That means we only conceded 5 goals in 17 games at Anfield in the PL last season. That's brilliant and I can expect the same to continue. West Ham was an extension of that. We will hammer some teams at Anfield just like we did last season and score in most games and won't concede in most games. We need to convert a few difficult draws into wins.

Away from home is a little bit harder to close the gap. We've to be better against the rest of Top 6 than last season (we lost 4 top 6 aways and drew 1 - so that's 1 point in 5 games) and convert some of the away draws against lower sides into wins. If our signings and the experience of last season will help us win those games, then we will be thereabouts with City. But there's work to be done to get there starting with Palace. As you say, that's a good start for a test.

We actually have a harder start in terms of fixtures than other Top 6 sides. City don't play anyone who'll trouble them until they meet us at Anfield in the 8th matchday. Before that, we have Palace A, Leicester A, Spurs A and Chelsea A. If we stay within 4 points of City when we meet them and retain that or better that after our game with City, then I'd say we'd be having a very good first half of the season. After that, our next major challenge in terms of fixtures will come during December with midweek games every week for around 6 weeks. After that, we have a fairly comfortable ride in the 2nd half of the season with most of the tough aways already done. If we're within touching distance after January, then it wouldn't be beyond us to do it.

[Ben87]

De Bruyne is reportedly out for the next couple of months, not nice to see him injured but hopefully means we can be even better than within 4 points of city. Although as you say, they don't have the hardest run of fixtures until playing us. Will make him a doubt for the match against us at this stage though.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

De Bruyne is reportedly out for the next couple of months, not nice to see him injured but hopefully means we can be even better than within 4 points of city. Although as you say, they don't have the hardest run of fixtures until playing us. Will make him a doubt for the match against us at this stage though.

Huge blow for them, despite their abundance in quality.

[newterp]

Huge blow for them, despite their abundance in quality.

it would be if they didn't have the easiest first 7 games of any team in the top 6 + an international break.

[Ben87]

it would be if they didn't have the easiest first 7 games of any team in the top 6 + an international break.

Our game is a week short of 2 months away, so if it’s 2 months or more like they think it could be, he could miss the match against us

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The ball might stay in play for 5 minutes. In that time, the guy who is about to be sent off could score.

They could. Play the game normally before the break in play. Whatever happens, happens. Then you apply the correct decision.

I'd take the odd person that should have been sent off scoring the odd goal or preventing one to overall have great decisions in every game.

Let's face it, that scenerio isn't going to happen that often.

Also if time is blown, then you allow whatever play you've been waiting on. Penno. Free kick. Corner etc.


Obviously needs thinking about, but there has to be a better way to handle it than, as the poster says, everyone standing around scratching their arse for 20 minutes.

[dptlfc83]

Stopping the game for a defensive injury inside the penalty area has been around for a long time, regardless of severity.

This isn't true. It would be taken advantage of all the time otherwise.