Topic: Over-rated and Under-rated Players

[El Lobo]

The players around him for Brazil in terms of all time top scorers are Pele, Ronaldo, Romario and Zico....

Could pretty much forget anything else, that alone puts him right up there. Over rated 

[QR350]

If we're talking about our club, I think Stephane Henchoz is very underrated. He always used to put in a solid shift but we tend to hear more about Hyypia, Agger and Carragher.

One of my favourite players, Gabriel Batistuta, while not underrated I just feel he should be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Zidane, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho. Beast of a player. Same goes for Del Piero. I think this is my love for 1990's Serie A showing.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Overrated

Jerome boateng (injuries have fucked him)
Sami Khedira (ditto)
Dele Alli
Antoine Griezmann (in terms of the very best)
Julian Draxler

[JLStretton]

If we're talking about our club, I think Stephane Henchoz is very underrated.

Agree some great goalkeeping skills in certain games

[Advil]

Batistuta, what a beast of a player. I always will remember what a great player he was. He was playing in an era with so many good players around in his position (Ronaldo, Shevchenko, Totti, Vieri, Del Piero, Crespo) , if he was playing now no doubt in my mind he will be the best CF around.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

2013/14- 13 goals 11 assists
2014/15- 32 goals 7 assists
2015/16- 27 goals 16 assists
2016/17- 17 goals 19 assists
2017/18- 25 goals 16 assists

I'd agree he's the third best player in the world, but I don't see how it's ever spoken of as a top three, in all honesty. Those numbers are very good, but they're nowhere near Messi or Ronaldo levels really.

Neymar is a more productive, quicker version of Hazard, to my mind. Incredibly good dribbler, constantly fouled, very creative, but like most normal footballers (i.e. not those two), he does lack that extra bit of ruthlessness.

I think he's much closer to the likes of Hazard, Salah, Griezmann etc than he is Messi or Ronaldo and any pretense otherwise comes from the inherent fear of "what next?" once those two retire.

[clinical]

Still the most overrated player of all time

Mesut Ozil

End.

He's dog shite, wouldn't want him anywhere near our team. Shows up 5 games a season. The rest he's a complete passenger on £350k+ a week.

[Qston]

I am going left field here and saying Neville Southall was massively underrated by the wider footballing community outside of Merseyside. He was, at his best, probably one of the best goalkeepers I have ever seen. That's saying something given who I support !

[clinical]

Bit off topic. But seen Pastore linked with other clubs. What a waste, being used as supersub as PSG. He could have been brilliant but now he's a nobody.

[slaphead]

Not the most box office of names like, but one fella I have always rated, and I think I'm about the only one, was James Collins. Thought he was, not so much now, an excellent defender who had a lot of excellent qualities
Over Rated ?  I  think Deli Ali is too over rated personally. Good player like, but not in the bracket some make out for me.

[elsewhere]

Underrated: Kike, Bejbl from that legendary Atl Madrid team
Overrated: Gullit, Jean Pierre Papen

[Xxavi]

Jose Gimenez (Uruguay) is a good young defender, underrated IMO. Thought he was the best young CB along with Varane several years ago, but for whatever reason, even Simeone didn't use him as a definite starter in the past several years.

That maybe due to contract disputes though. It seems like he signed an extension and I expect Simeone to make him a definite starter. Either way, he is good.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

How much was Lewandowski being priced at earlier this season? If I was Bayern I'd take the money and run. He's lost whatever it is he once had.

I'm sure someone will tell me he can still do the business by pointing at some Bayern stats, but I reckon I could score 15 a season for Bayern.

[Dim Glas]

How much was Lewandowski being priced at earlier this season? If I was Bayern I'd take the money and run. He's lost whatever it is he once had.

I'm sure someone will tell me he can still do the business by pointing at some Bayern stats, but I reckon I could score 15 a season for Bayern.

Love how this stuff comes out during the world cup to a player who's playing for a nation where he's the only 'world class' player   

He's a sulky bastard though, so he needs to snap out of it in time for the new season.  Cos it definately affected him later last season for a few weeks too, where he was slouching around the pitch.

He'll be fine, and if he leaves Bayern, he'll still score the goals, and he'll still play well and he'll still contribute massively to his team.

But also worth remembering - he has played a TON of football for the last 7 seasons - he's barely been injured, hardly misses games, he's just played a massive amount of football at a high level, and other than the odd spell has been unbelievably consistantly good.

His demise is greatly exaggerated.  And the ignorant dig about scoring goals for Bayern, does you no favours with your arguement by the way 

[Skeeve]

His demise is greatly exaggerated.  And the ignorant dig about scoring goals for Bayern, does you no favours with your arguement by the way 

Indeed, that is a level of claim so clueless that even a caller on 606 got called out for making it the other week. 

[Gerry Attrick]

Love how this stuff comes out during the world cup to a player who's playing for a nation where he's the only 'world class' player   

He's a sulky bastard though, so he needs to snap out of it in time for the new season.  Cos it definately affected him later last season for a few weeks too, where he was slouching around the pitch.

He'll be fine, and if he leaves Bayern, he'll still score the goals, and he'll still play well and he'll still contribute massively to his team.

But also worth remembering - he has played a TON of football for the last 7 seasons - he's barely been injured, hardly misses games, he's just played a massive amount of football at a high level, and other than the odd spell has been unbelievably consistantly good.

His demise is greatly exaggerated.  And the ignorant dig about scoring goals for Bayern, does you no favours with your arguement by the way 

Just posting about this in the World Cup thread and he's concerning me a lot now. An instance in the first half made me think his body is showing signs of not co-operating with his mind any longer. Picked up a ball on the halfway line, tried to run with it but looked like he was running in custard and had it pinched off him after about 3 seconds. That's not sulking or a loss of form, that's something way more concerning and it's continuing a trend of him looking very heavy and cumbersome for the last few months. I really fear it could get away from him in a hurry, this is not the Lewandowski of the last half a dozen seasons and there is genuine cause for concern.

[Chalky Boots]

underrated:
Veron, Riquelme - you look at Argentina right now and how much the miss players like those who can link the back to the front.
Luis Alberto - people underrate his talent because of his failed stint here but he's probably the best number 10 bar Dybala in Calcio; has moments where he looks Bergkampesque.
Vicente Rodriguez: faded into obscurity but this guy was the best left winger in world football under Rafa.
2 ex-Parma strikers in Crespo and Mutu: obviously Crespo had a huge impact at Lazio but sort of became an after-thought and Mutu was sort of over-shadowed by the obvious pure raw talent of Adriano but he was fantastic for both Parma and Fiorentina around that Chelsea fiasco.


Overrated: I'll get flak but Mascherano (for Argentina) has offered them nothing for the past 8 years, part due to coaching part but a lot rests on him not stepping up more.
Ribery: has had a fantastic career but back in 06 this was the guy tipped to take over Zizou's mantel and has really looked more at ease being a support player than the star attraction.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

underrated:
Veron, Riquelme - you look at Argentina right now and how much the miss players like those who can link the back to the front.
Luis Alberto - people underrate his talent because of his failed stint here but he's probably the best number 10 bar Dybala in Calcio; has moments where he looks Bergkampesque.
Vicente Rodriguez: faded into obscurity but this guy was the best left winger in world football under Rafa.
2 ex-Parma strikers in Crespo and Mutu: obviously Crespo had a huge impact at Lazio but sort of became an after-thought and Mutu was sort of over-shadowed by the obvious pure raw talent of Adriano but he was fantastic for both Parma and Fiorentina around that Chelsea fiasco.


Overrated: I'll get flak but Mascherano (for Argentina) has offered them nothing for the past 8 years, part due to coaching part but a lot rests on him not stepping up more.
Ribery: has had a fantastic career but back in 06 this was the guy tipped to take over Zizou's mantel and has really looked more at ease being a support player than the star attraction.

You forgot to mention Crespo's stint at Milan, he did score two against us..

[Chalky Boots]

Was really considered a side show to Shevchenko at that point though.

[Mr Mingebag Squid]

Crespo was fantastic in the early years up until moving to Chelsea. That move ruined his career IMO.

Loved watching him for Parma and Lazio

[Dubred]

Him and Souness are criminally underrated by the wider public - two of the very best players Europe has ever produced. The two driving forces behind THREE European cups. Can't fathom why they're never mentioned in the same breathe as the likes of Platini, Charlton, Best, Eusebio, Matthaus, Zidane, Iniesta, Xavi, etc. They absolutely belong up there.

Quoted from a few months ago now but only just read it!

Always strikes a note with me.

Our teams that won the European Cup between 78 and 84.

There were some players in there - Dalglish, Souness, Rush, to name but a few.

But none of these players are ever mentioned amongst the greats.

Not even in the same breath as some of the Utd legends.  Its baffled me.

The only commonality is the fact that none of our players were hugely successful in World Cups.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Just posting about this in the World Cup thread and he's concerning me a lot now. An instance in the first half made me think his body is showing signs of not co-operating with his mind any longer. Picked up a ball on the halfway line, tried to run with it but looked like he was running in custard and had it pinched off him after about 3 seconds. That's not sulking or a loss of form, that's something way more concerning and it's continuing a trend of him looking very heavy and cumbersome for the last few months. I really fear it could get away from him in a hurry, this is not the Lewandowski of the last half a dozen seasons and there is genuine cause for concern.

He's reminding me of Van Persie at the start of his second season at United. All ability, both physical and technical, just seems to have suddenly drained from him.

[DangerScouse]

underrated:
Veron, Riquelme - you look at Argentina right now and how much the miss players like those who can link the back to the front.
Luis Alberto - people underrate his talent because of his failed stint here but he's probably the best number 10 bar Dybala in Calcio; has moments where he looks Bergkampesque.
Vicente Rodriguez: faded into obscurity but this guy was the best left winger in world football under Rafa.
2 ex-Parma strikers in Crespo and Mutu: obviously Crespo had a huge impact at Lazio but sort of became an after-thought and Mutu was sort of over-shadowed by the obvious pure raw talent of Adriano but he was fantastic for both Parma and Fiorentina around that Chelsea fiasco.


Overrated: I'll get flak but Mascherano (for Argentina) has offered them nothing for the past 8 years, part due to coaching part but a lot rests on him not stepping up more.
Ribery: has had a fantastic career but back in 06 this was the guy tipped to take over Zizou's mantel and has really looked more at ease being a support player than the star attraction.

Mascherano was brilliant for the argies in the last world cup.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

Indeed, that is a level of claim so clueless that even a caller on 606 got called out for making it the other week. 

What's the claim that is so clueless? That Lewa is overrated or I could score 15 for Bayern. You do understand the concept of "tongue in cheek"? You're in for a long slog through the internet otherwise fella!

Called out by 606? I must be wrong then 

Besides, when did you see me play? 

His demise is greatly exaggerated.  And the ignorant dig about scoring goals for Bayern, does you no favours with your arguement by the way 

Alright precious 

Touched a bit of a nerve with Lewa I see, must be worse than I thought - already at the denial stage.

[Bjornar]

Yossi Benayoun seems a bit forgotten already, thought he was a brilliant little player in Rafa's best LFC team.

[Xxavi]

In the overrated camp are Modric and Ramos.

I admit, they are perhaps the best in their positions in the past 3-4 years, but esp. Modric hype has reached a new level after the Argentina result. People seemingly forgot all the games he was bossed both for Madrid and Croatia. Argentina are a shambles of a team, and other teams have beaten them comfortably too. This season, Modric and Madrid were bossed many times both in the league and in CL. International football wise, Croatia has a good team but haven't done much at all, Iceland finished ahead of them in qualification, haven't they?

Ramos, on the other hand, is a rash, dirty defender. He is playing in an era where there are very few great defenders, to be fair, and that alone puts him into the mix of "the best defenders of his generation" category. However, if you look at his playing style, fouls, cards, and brain dead moments, he just shouldn't be mentioned alongside historical greats.

So the above 2 at the moment are overrated.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Underrated

-Abidal
-Puyol
-David Villa

Overrated
-Pique
-Muller

[JLStretton]

In the overrated camp are Modric

[robgomm]

These two shitters are way overrated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BYCcvbMJLY

[Roger Federer]

Can’t agree on Modric being overrated (unless perhaps exactly in this moment, as I’ve seen arguments that he’s better than Xavi).

If anything, the opposite, to me he’s been to best central midfielder in the world since Xavi got older and started to decline, but I haven’t seen him being mentioned as such that many times. He’s the only midfielder in that Madrid team who has been part of all four of their recent CL wins, that in itself is hugely impressive. Yes, he and the whole team are not at their peak now, but I still thought that he was the best player in the final.

[Chalky Boots]

Underrated

-Abidal
-Puyol
-David Villa

Overrated
-Pique
-Muller

I could see Abidal as being underrated but Puyol and Villa are still pretty much regarded as two of Spains greatest all time players aren't they?

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Overrated:
Muller

It pains me slightly that him and Klose will have inflated legacies due to their amount of World Cup goals. Good finishers for sure, and in fairness Muller was incredibly sharp all-round at his breakout World Cup in 2010, but far better footballers have scored fewer World Cup goals.

Muller is absolutely finished by the way. I've never seen a footballer age as badly so early as he has the last couple of years.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Muller is absolutely finished by the way. I've never seen a footballer age as badly so early as he has the last couple of years.

which is strange, since he doesn't rely on physicality that much, but on finding and exploiting space

[LallanaInPyjamas]

which is strange, since he doesn't rely on physicality that much, but on finding and exploiting space

I think Ancelotti destroyed his confidence to an extent. I also don't think playing wide helps him. But ultimately, a bit like Dirk for us, any manager worth his salt knows that he's not technically good enough to play through the middle at the top level.

He just looks old as well, and plays old now, too. If he was 30+, more people would be saying he's finished. Reminds me of Rooney in that sense - he was so clearly done by 28/29, and that's probably being a bit generous, but the media refused to acknowledge it until he tipped over that dreaded 30 mark.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Reminds me of Rooney in that sense - he was so clearly done by 28/29, and that's probably being a bit generous, but the media refused to acknowledge it until he tipped over that dreaded 30 mark.

To be fair Rooney was still putting up great numbers in his late 20's, even if there was a slight decline once he hit 29. It wasn't until 30 that he really started dropping off. Speaking of which, I hate to say it but Rooney is underrated by a lot of people. Leading goalscorer for England and Man United, regularly got 10 assists a season and a three time winner of the goal of the season award, but you still get people insisting he's a donkey because he never approached Messi or Ronaldo's peak levels.

Speaking of numbers, I was shocked to see Tony Cottee is in the top 20 list for the all-time top division scorers in England, number six if you just go by post-war.

[robgomm]

I think Klose was kind of a genius predator, a modern day Gerd Muller but obviously not the same level. He was a bridge between the nadir and zenith of German football over the last 20 years too, with the failure at Euro 2004, the positive steps in their home world cup and finally the victory in 2014. His role is very important in German football, even though I'd agree his overall individual quality is not the greatest, though certainly very good, and his club record mixed.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

To be fair Rooney was still putting up great numbers in his late 20's, even if there was a slight decline once he hit 29. It wasn't until 30 that he really started dropping off. Speaking of which, I hate to say it but Rooney is underrated by a lot of people. Leading goalscorer for England and Man United, regularly got 10 assists a season and a three time winner of the goal of the season award, but you still get people insisting he's a donkey because he never approached Messi or Ronaldo's peak levels.

Speaking of numbers, I was shocked to see Tony Cottee is in the top 20 list for the all-time top division scorers in England, number six if you just go by post-war.

I would say Rooney's last "great" season in terms of numbers and the 'eye test' was 2011-12 personally, when he was 26/27.

Of course he still had some good games thereafter - as I'm sure Muller will - and there are a couple of extenuating circumstances in playing a bit deeper on the pitch and his fall-out with Ferguson. But his consistency and physicality noticeably dropped. He could still hurt sides with his long-range passing and under-rated finishing inside the box, but the overall threat just wasn't close to the same level. He could look laboured at times.

You're right in that the (roughly) 2006-12 Rooney was under-rated. He was elite and a team player, which is a rare combination. Thereafter, he wasn't close to the elite for me.

[tubby]

Modric

[El Lobo]

 

[Sheer Magnetism]

I would say Rooney's last "great" season in terms of numbers and the 'eye test' was 2011-12 personally, when he was 26/27.

Of course he still had some good games thereafter - as I'm sure Muller will - and there are a couple of extenuating circumstances in playing a bit deeper on the pitch and his fall-out with Ferguson. But his consistency and physicality noticeably dropped. He could still hurt sides with his long-range passing and under-rated finishing inside the box, but the overall threat just wasn't close to the same level. He could look laboured at times.

You're right in that the (roughly) 2006-12 Rooney was under-rated. He was elite and a team player, which is a rare combination. Thereafter, he wasn't close to the elite for me.

Looking at the stats, Rooney got 12 goals and 10 assists in 27 games in 2012-13, and 17 and 10 in 29 the year after. Those may not be elite numbers but they do indicate he still had a good deal of end product. There was certainly a drop off in goals that first year, but that had more to do with him moving away from the number nine position in favour of Van Persie. If he'd stayed as centre forward a difference would have barely been noticeable.

Even with Müller, if his form isn't what it was he was still the assist leader in the Bundesliga last season. I have a feeling his decline looks more pronounced than it is because it's happening alongside several other senior members of the German team.