Author Topic: Loan Watch 2017-18  (Read 102076 times)

Offline JoeCole

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #400 on: April 15, 2018, 06:53:58 pm »
Today:

Pedro Chirivella - Willem II - Played the full 90 as Willem picked up a very important away win at NAC Breda and climbed 3 points above them in the table. They are now 7 points clear of the relegation play off spots with 3 games remaining.
Naby Keita - RBL - Came on for the final 15 minutes as RBL drew 1-1 away at Bremen. The point puts them 5th, 4 points adrift of the CL spots.
Daniel Sturridge - West Brom - Returned from injury as West Brom beat Utd and handed City the title. He came on for the final 10 minutes. Assuming he's ineligible to play against us next weekend?
Lazar Markovic - Anderlecht - Started his second game in a row, playing for 64 minutes as Anderlecht beat Brugge 1-0. Soccerway have him down as playing as a ST in a front 2 which is interesting.

Offline clinical

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #401 on: April 16, 2018, 10:17:29 am »
My boss who's a season ticket holder for Sunderland isn't too impressed with Ejaria.

Says he started okay, but has zero game intelligence and just keeps trying fancy tricks that barely every come off.

Bit of a shame that.
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Offline sms1986

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #402 on: April 16, 2018, 11:07:13 am »
Today:

Pedro Chirivella - Willem II - Played the full 90 as Willem picked up a very important away win at NAC Breda and climbed 3 points above them in the table. They are now 7 points clear of the relegation play off spots with 3 games remaining.
Naby Keita - RBL - Came on for the final 15 minutes as RBL drew 1-1 away at Bremen. The point puts them 5th, 4 points adrift of the CL spots.
Daniel Sturridge - West Brom - Returned from injury as West Brom beat Utd and handed City the title. He came on for the final 10 minutes. Assuming he's ineligible to play against us next weekend?
Lazar Markovic - Anderlecht - Started his second game in a row, playing for 64 minutes as Anderlecht beat Brugge 1-0. Soccerway have him down as playing as a ST in a front 2 which is interesting.

Yeah, players on loan can't play against their parent club.

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #403 on: April 16, 2018, 11:08:53 am »
Yeah, players on loan can't play against their parent club.

Thought they changed that rule, or is that only in the European matches?
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Offline sms1986

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #404 on: April 16, 2018, 11:09:52 am »
Thought they changed that rule, or is that only in the European matches?

They haven't, in European matches I think it only applies if the loanee never played for their parent club before they went out on loan.

Offline JoeCole

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #405 on: April 16, 2018, 03:15:31 pm »
My boss who's a season ticket holder for Sunderland isn't too impressed with Ejaria.

Says he started okay, but has zero game intelligence and just keeps trying fancy tricks that barely every come off.

Bit of a shame that.

Is he impressed with any Sunderland players??

Offline clinical

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #406 on: April 17, 2018, 10:13:27 am »
Is he impressed with any Sunderland players??
Paddy McNair  apparently.

Origi and Sturridge will leave this summer most likely, disappointing neither have added to their value. Will be happy if we get £25m between them this summer now.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 10:18:50 am by clinical »
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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #407 on: April 17, 2018, 12:33:50 pm »
Paddy McNair  apparently.

Origi and Sturridge will leave this summer most likely, disappointing neither have added to their value. Will be happy if we get £25m between them this summer now.

Can’t really warrant a fee for Sturridge to be honest. Just getting him off the wage bill will benefit us, free transfer to MLS is his best bet.

Offline Giono

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #408 on: April 17, 2018, 04:21:12 pm »
Today:

Pedro Chirivella - Willem II - Played the full 90 as Willem picked up a very important away win at NAC Breda and climbed 3 points above them in the table. They are now 7 points clear of the relegation play off spots with 3 games remaining.
Naby Keita - RBL - Came on for the final 15 minutes as RBL drew 1-1 away at Bremen. The point puts them 5th, 4 points adrift of the CL spots.
Daniel Sturridge - West Brom - Returned from injury as West Brom beat Utd and handed City the title. He came on for the final 10 minutes. Assuming he's ineligible to play against us next weekend?
Lazar Markovic - Anderlecht - Started his second game in a row, playing for 64 minutes as Anderlecht beat Brugge 1-0. Soccerway have him down as playing as a ST in a front 2 which is interesting.

That is interesting news about Markovic. Good that he is getting games.
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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #409 on: April 19, 2018, 04:42:07 pm »
Posted in the tactics thread but wanted to separate out our loan players for a look at how they are getting along.

Code: [Select]
Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Ejaria (Sunderland) 0 5,2
Wilson (Hull) 0,99 5,09
Ojo (Fulham) 0,39 4,95
Kent (Bristol City) 0,33 4,28
Kent (Freiburg)* 0 4,06
Origi (Wolfsburg) 0,37 3,48
Grujic (Cardiff) 0,09 3,04

To give some context, here are some of the bigger names of young talents in the Championship to compare them to.

Code: [Select]
Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Adama Traoré 0,59 12,36
Sergi Canos 0,23 7,67
Ollie Watkins 0,37 7,62
Alex Pritchard 0,57 7,44
James Maddison 0,57 7,12
Jack Grealish 0,43 6,66
Diogo Jota 0,56 5,87
Ryan Sessegnon** 0,48 3,29

*Denotes a very small sample size of less than six games.
**Played large portion of the season at LB.
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Offline Tobelius

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #410 on: April 19, 2018, 04:49:30 pm »
Thanks Babu,very helpful.  :)

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #411 on: April 19, 2018, 04:55:57 pm »
I think I've seen Ejaria play twice for Sunderland on the rare occasions they've been on TV, but the data there tallies with the type of performances I've seen him put in for England Under-21's, where he was very impressive.

He's definitely added a physical edge to his game and has improved significantly on the ball.

Offline Talking Reds

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #412 on: April 19, 2018, 05:02:45 pm »
Posted in the tactics thread but wanted to separate out our loan players for a look at how they are getting along.

This is interesting, thanks. Looking at Wilson, his output looks great as headline numbers (still small sample size though), but his input stats are good but on the low side compared to the top level young talents in the league. Does this suggest he may regress towards the mean if given more games? Do you have similar stats available for established Championship players with similar G+A p90s to Wilson please?

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #413 on: April 20, 2018, 06:46:15 pm »
This is interesting, thanks. Looking at Wilson, his output looks great as headline numbers (still small sample size though), but his input stats are good but on the low side compared to the top level young talents in the league. Does this suggest he may regress towards the mean if given more games? Do you have similar stats available for established Championship players with similar G+A p90s to Wilson please?

It just so happens most of the top young players in the Championship are creative players. If you saw in the tactics thread the post i made on forwards, you notice something else.

Forwards
Code: [Select]
Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Mohamed Salah 1,36 7,8
Daniel Sturridge* 0,53 7,42
Sadio Mané 0,77 6,28
Dominic Solanke* 0,19 6,23
Roberto Firmino 0,8 5,32
Danny Ings* 0 4,23

Wilson (Hull) 0,99 5,09
Ojo (Fulham) 0,39 4,95
Kent (Bristol City) 0,33 4,28
Kent (Freiburg)* 0 4,06
Origi (Wolfsburg) 0,37 3,48

To give some context, here are their counterparts at the other top 6 clubs.

Code: [Select]
Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Eden Hazard 0,63 11,1
Willian 0,66 7,79
Alexis Sánchez 0,59 7,53
Sergio Agüero 1,23 7,5
Raheem Sterling 1 6,48
Harry Kane 0,92 6,48
Leroy Sané 0,92 6,24
Pedro 0,4 6,1
Son Heung-Min 0,71 6,09
Álvaro Morata 0,81 5,53
Anthony Martial 0,92 5,43
Marcus Rashford 0,67 5,35
Alex Iwobi 0,44 5,2
Christian Eriksen 0,62 4,8
Alexandre Lacazette 0,64 4,59
Henrikh Mkhitaryan 0,72 4,37
Romelu Lukaku 0,71 4,03
Juan Mata 0,36 4,01
P-E. Aubameyang 1,03 3,98

These numbers indicate his output (goals and assists) and input (dribbles, shots, key passes) in terms of attacking play. Players who score highly will tend to be particularly useful against a low block. Players who tend to score high in output, low in input (e.g. Aubameyang) could either have a very high success rate, which may or may not be sustainable long term, and likely to be players rarely involved in build up just putting the final touch on attacks. Players with low output, high input will tend to be penetration players (e.g. Wilshire, Dembele, Fabregas) who are linking the defensive players to the attacking players trying to break through the lines.

Players with very high output and lower input (e.g. Auba) are killers, basically. Wanting to stay in areas where goals are scored and created rather than drop deeper to be part of the process of opening up the opponent with penetrative dribbling or passes. Alternatively, they could just be players who have had a high success rate with very little input and will tail off. This is where scouting comes into it really - looking at the player rather than the data to get a better idea for young players.

At the opposite end, very low output and high input (e.g. Fabregas) are penetrators. Highly involved in the process of linking the attack but less involved in the process of finishing off moves. Alternatively, they could be players who are on the very of having big output but just haven't found it yet at that level - which is what I believe to be true of Solanke. Harry Kane had good underlying numbers before he broke out at Spurs for example.

Then there will be the level of penetrators one step removed again, like Dembele, Weigl etc. Players who function to connect the defence to the creative players and attacks but stay outside the opposition shape and thus rarely will register in terms of end product. For them, looking at those numbers above can almost be entirely useless.
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Offline Dim Glas

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #414 on: April 20, 2018, 09:54:26 pm »
things ain't getting any better for Divock Origi. A sub again tonight for Wolfsburg. Came into the game on 75 mins when they where already 3-0 down and had little impact.  I think it's fair to say he is not a favourite of Wolfsburg's 3rd (and quite frankly worst) coach of the season, Bruno Labbadia.

3 games left for them this season, or it could be 5 if they end up in that playoff spot, they are in a 3 way battle with Freiburg and Mainz for it now, with both two teams in with a chance of overtaking Wolfsburg this weekend.

Offline hassinator

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #415 on: April 21, 2018, 09:14:41 am »
things ain't getting any better for Divock Origi. A sub again tonight for Wolfsburg. Came into the game on 75 mins when they where already 3-0 down and had little impact.  I think it's fair to say he is not a favourite of Wolfsburg's 3rd (and quite frankly worst) coach of the season, Bruno Labbadia.

3 games left for them this season, or it could be 5 if they end up in that playoff spot, they are in a 3 way battle with Freiburg and Mainz for it now, with both two teams in with a chance of overtaking Wolfsburg this weekend.

wolfsburg have changed coach twice in one year?  hard lines for origi.  they wanted to buy him before xmas.

Offline smurfinaus

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #416 on: April 21, 2018, 11:40:20 am »
Anyone watched Wilson's performances?. Will he get a fair chance to be at the least a competent backup to Mane/Salah next season?

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #417 on: April 21, 2018, 12:20:16 pm »
Anyone watched Wilson's performances?. Will he get a fair chance to be at the least a competent backup to Mane/Salah next season?
Saw him in the cup against Chelsea and he looked good. Also scored in the 3-0 win again Ipswich and looked very good again. Have only caught highlights apart from that.

Personally I would have no problem with him having an important role in the squad next season.
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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #418 on: April 21, 2018, 02:01:30 pm »
Why didn't Ben Woodburn get loaned out?
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Offline JoeCole

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #419 on: April 21, 2018, 02:51:16 pm »
Why didn't Ben Woodburn get loaned out?

He was supposed to be going to Sunderland but we chose to keep him after not signing a Coutinho replacement - https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/ben-woodburn-stay-liverpool-following-14171619

Not sure playing for this Sunderland side would have helped him much anyway really

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #420 on: April 21, 2018, 03:07:14 pm »
Anyone watched Wilson's performances?. Will he get a fair chance to be at the least a competent backup to Mane/Salah next season?

He should be. He's having a fantastic stint at Hull. They were hovering around relegation spots when he joined and now are nowhere near and almost sure of safety. He's having the numbers to back them up.

Wilson would be a good back-up, provided we also get one more and loan Solanke (opportunity for him to shine like Wilson) next season. That way, we'll have Wilson, Ings and another signing as back-up for the front three.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 03:09:54 pm by PoetryInMotion »

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #421 on: April 21, 2018, 03:08:00 pm »
Things aren't looking good for Ejaria though. He's been benched again, and quite a few Sunderland fans seem to describe him as style without substance.

Offline Djimi Smicer34

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #422 on: April 21, 2018, 03:17:41 pm »
Harry Wilson has scored again.

Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #423 on: April 21, 2018, 03:19:17 pm »
Think that's 10 games
6 goals
3 assists

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #424 on: April 21, 2018, 03:24:16 pm »
Think that's 10 games
6 goals
3 assists

More than taken his chance at Hull. Hope to see him given a good run with the first team in pre season.
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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #425 on: April 21, 2018, 03:25:44 pm »
Think that's 10 games
6 goals
3 assists

My mistake its actually 11 games

Still.... seriously impressive stats

Offline Redman78

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #426 on: April 21, 2018, 03:28:24 pm »
My mistake its actually 11 games

Still.... seriously impressive stats

Considering it's his first proper taste of competitive football, in a new team, he's showing great maturity, ability and consistency.

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #427 on: April 21, 2018, 03:29:58 pm »
Harry Wilson has scored again.

End the loan.

Get him back here for the end of the season push.

Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #428 on: April 21, 2018, 03:30:33 pm »
End the loan.

Get him back here for the end of the season push.

Why on earth would Hull agree to that

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #429 on: April 21, 2018, 03:37:22 pm »
Why on earth would Hull agree to that

Why would we want to do that?  He's playing every game for Hull and we're seeing the benefits of that, he's going to come back with his confidence sky high.  No point bringing him back here to sit on the bench.

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #430 on: April 21, 2018, 03:38:52 pm »
Why would we want to do that?  He's playing every game for Hull and we're seeing the benefits of that, he's going to come back with his confidence sky high.  No point bringing him back here to sit on the bench.

Exactly

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #431 on: April 21, 2018, 03:41:26 pm »
Why on earth would Hull agree to that
Can we even end loans outside of transfer windows? I didn't think that was possible. Great to see him doing well though, really hope he makes it with us.

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #432 on: April 21, 2018, 03:43:26 pm »
Can we even end loans outside of transfer windows? I didn't think that was possible. Great to see him doing well though, really hope he makes it with us.

Think you're right, I was thinking both teams had to agree to it but now you say it that does ring a bell. Stupid call for us to recall him anyway, unnecessary

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #433 on: April 21, 2018, 03:52:04 pm »
Things aren't looking good for Ejaria though. He's been benched again, and quite a few Sunderland fans seem to describe him as style without substance.
This happens with loans all the time. We had people saying bad things about coady's loans and Wilson's first one amongst many others.

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #434 on: April 21, 2018, 03:55:03 pm »
Why on earth would Hull agree to that

I was joking as we can't bring in back until the season for Hull meaning he would be availve for the Brighton game and CL final if we get there.

Offline xbugawugax

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #435 on: April 21, 2018, 03:56:35 pm »
This happens with loans all the time. We had people saying bad things about coady's loans and Wilson's first one amongst many others.

young players take time to progress shocker.

Coady is actually doing decent at wolves and look at wilson now. Coady already secured promotion with wolves and wilson just might be with us next season.

Our ex youth prospects actually doing decent.

Kent and Ojo hardly getting any game time though. Ojo i understand due to the limit of loan players they can name during matches.  Sunderland fans were raving about Evie in his first few games as he looks like a player that can actually play good football.

But still too early to write the players off. They may still be decent EPL players if they actually improve.

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #436 on: April 21, 2018, 04:32:04 pm »
Another goal for Harry Wilson, free-kick this time.

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #437 on: April 21, 2018, 04:45:34 pm »
Another goal for Harry Wilson, free-kick this time.

don't think both teams have any defenders on the pitch ;D

4-4 now

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #438 on: April 21, 2018, 04:50:34 pm »
Lads on fire  :)
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Loan Watch 2017-18
« Reply #439 on: April 21, 2018, 04:50:48 pm »
9 goal thriller

5-4 to Hull

Delighted to see Wilson grab 2