Author Topic: Atheism  (Read 181923 times)

Offline Conocinico

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1320 on: October 30, 2017, 04:10:54 pm »
1-0 to the scientists I think:

Unless the Earth was around 13 billion years ago.

I don't know my bible, I was only going off of this.

And the bit where he created light and then 3 days later created the sun.

So a score draw?
This sentence is not provable

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1321 on: October 30, 2017, 05:52:22 pm »
I don't know my bible, I was only going off of this.

So a score draw?

No - he made the stars after he made the Earth and the plants:

Quote
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.

12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,

15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.

16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth,

18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.

19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

If it was an analogy or a story describing a simplified version of the origins of the Universe it would go:

1. Create the Stars,

2. Create the Sun,

3. Create the Earth and Moon,

4. Create Water, Tectonic Plates and, Continental Drift

5. Create the Atmosphere (pretty fundamental to miss something so essential to life)

6. Create Green Algae, (to produce Oxygen)

7. Create Plants,

8. Create Fishes,

9. Create Animals,

10. Create Birds (descended from dinosaurs),

11. Create Humans

12. Create Livestock
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1322 on: October 31, 2017, 11:51:37 am »
Does Poor Understanding of Physical World Predict Religious and Paranormal Beliefs?

Although supernatural beliefs often paint a peculiar picture about the physical world, the possibility that the beliefs might be based on inadequate understanding of the non-social world has not received research attention. In this study (N = 258), we therefore examined how physical-world skills and knowledge predict religious and paranormal beliefs. The results showed that supernatural beliefs correlated with all variables that were included, namely, with low systemizing, poor intuitive physics skills, poor mechanical ability, poor mental rotation, low school grades in mathematics and physics, poor common knowledge about physical and biological phenomena, intuitive and analytical thinking styles, and in particular, with assigning mentality to non-mental phenomena. Regression analyses indicated that the strongest predictors of the beliefs were overall physical capability (a factor representing most physical skills, interests, and knowledge) and intuitive thinking style.

Source

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1323 on: November 1, 2017, 09:56:27 pm »
And if anyone wants proof of the dangers of religion:

https://thinkprogress.org/epa-silences-more-scientists-25a5af44a0d4/

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Offline zero zero

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1324 on: November 2, 2017, 09:20:52 am »
I do.
I've started and stopped replying to this as I thought my response was too meandering. I've tried to keep this succinct, and we can take it from there. The general point I'm making is that all religions are not the same, in much the same way that all political systems are not the same.
Quote
I don't recall reading this post of yours...

...so when you said "My religion states that to be born into a Buddhist family is a result of karmic merit", I took you to also believe in that, as you identified as a Buddhist. Now, you've made me aware that is not the case.
It would have been far quicker for me to write "I believe...". The fact I chose not to was, in my mind at least, me distancing myself from those concepts. I had already drawn my own conclusions before I discovered there was such a thing as Secular Buddhism.

Within the framework of secular Buddhism, Buddhist doctrine may be stripped of any unspecified combination of various traditional beliefs that could be considered superstitious, or that cannot be tested through empirical research, namely: supernatural beings (such as devas, bodhisattvas, nāgas, pretas, Buddhas, etc.), merit and its transference, rebirth, Buddhist cosmology (including the existence of pure lands and hells), etc.

Quote
Nonetheless, as you said yourself, or more accurately, your good wife, it's a pretty core belief in Buddhism. It's like a Catholic not believing in sin. By that reckoning, you're a pretty odd Buddhist. That's not a criticism, you be who you want, but it took me a while to understand it and you didn't help.
Early Buddhist texts describe following the Dharma as a "way of life". In other words, small "p" philosophy. One key difference between Buddhism and Catholicism is that, as far as I'm aware, there is nothing in Buddhism saying you have to do anything. There's you and your conscience, your thoughts and actions and their consequences.

The other key difference would be that at the core of Buddhism isn't "belief", but a rational idea - Follow the Middle Path. To try to illustrate; think of one of the greatest ad campaigns of the twentieth century - Niké's "Just do it". Whether the ad was for Air Jordan, golf, tennis or athletics they were all expressions of the same central idea. In the same way, you could have a person that buys some books on Zen Buddhism, teaches themselves to meditate by watching youtube videos, never meet a bhikku (Buddhist priest), never utter a word of Pali and still be a legitimate Buddhist. The way either of us choose to live our lives is, broadly speaking, the same as it's built on the same foundations.

I think this is why, despite the priests, prayers and temples, people still think of Buddhism as a philosophy. In that sense it's a bit like light; sometimes it's a philosophy, sometimes it's a religion, sometimes it's both things at the same time.

Offline zero zero

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1325 on: November 2, 2017, 09:45:47 am »
Are there Buddhists who aren't atheists?
Not that I'm aware of. The Buddha was as human as you or I and gained Enlightenment on his own, not through divine intervention.

To expand: There's no creation myth that has to be quietly binned.  Therefore, no Creator God. No Commandments as there's no one to command us. No Eternal Soul either. I know the Church has fudged the issue recently in trying to answer the question at what point did humans start having souls if we accept we're apes. Or if we're all made in God's image, how is it that some people reading this have a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA?

In the last couple of pages, we've again gone over the concept of Science vs Religion. Now, when it comes to the area of science that most interests me - evolution and the natural world - we find something I find interesting.

The Buddhist non-killing precept (commandment equivalent) sets the bar at "all living things". Basically, insects and up. So, a combination of this precept and the understanding and rejection of the concept of a soul has the consequence that there is no hard line between us and other animals. This is what I think is behind the fact that the acceptance of Evolution as an explanation for Humans is highest in Buddhists. Even higher than atheists (unaffiliated in this research).



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/10/darwin-day/ft_16-02-12_darwinday_640px/n

One final thought on your question. I found later in life that my thoughts on the kind of Philosophy that was just discussed over the last couple of pages, aligned with what the Buddha thought. He dismissed it as "metaphysical speculation" and a waste of time for Buddhists. Now, people can spend their time how they want and believe what they want, but I think the Buddha's position has been borne out because in the intervening two and half thousand years that kind of Philosophy hasn't helped Humanity understand the nature of reality one iota. Plenty to say on how many angels can fit on the head of a pin or the possible, theoretical nature of a Creator that the universe seems to function without, but no practical use whatsoever.
Quote
I still think reincarnation is dumb as fuck but I now know there are Buddhists who don't believe in it.
I could never say the same. If it wasn't for the Tibetans and their zany ideas on reincarnation, my favourite Beatles song, Tomorrow Never Knows, wouldn't exist.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1326 on: November 28, 2017, 01:32:28 am »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/nDEOqmVrIJQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/nDEOqmVrIJQ</a>

He isn't making the point that he thinks he's making.

But we can both agree on one thing,the Bible is fiction just like the Jungle book.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1327 on: December 4, 2017, 10:21:23 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/H8q_6hL-XSk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/H8q_6hL-XSk</a>
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1328 on: December 5, 2017, 07:08:09 am »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/nDEOqmVrIJQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/nDEOqmVrIJQ</a>

He isn't making the point that he thinks he's making.

But we can both agree on one thing,the Bible is fiction just like the Jungle book.

I think we can all agree he's a fucking idiot.
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Offline Poet

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1329 on: December 24, 2017, 02:39:05 pm »
The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.

Offline thejbs

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1330 on: December 25, 2017, 12:40:43 am »
https://twitter.com/atheistrepublic/status/944776008816910336

Young Muslims in Turkey give their opinion on atheists. Nice.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1331 on: December 25, 2017, 11:14:50 am »
https://twitter.com/atheistrepublic/status/944776008816910336

Young Muslims in Turkey give their opinion on atheists. Nice.

Stick a camera in my face in Erdoğans Turkey and I would tell them what I thought they wanted to hear as well.


This guy has no fucking excuse though.

Quote
SECEDE Kilgore‏ @SECEDEKilgore

I'd gladly execute a convicted adulterer, sodomite or bestialiter. Biblical law is a blessin. https://fb.me/NWk8Eewy

So he basically just stated that he would gladly execute Donald Drumpf

Merry Christmas
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Offline electricghost

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“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
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Offline Corkboy

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Offline RedRabbit

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1334 on: January 18, 2018, 02:00:01 pm »
I wonder how many Christians would be able to identify Jebus from a cherry picking of his sayings, or be able to pick the real one (not the '8 foot tall, blonde, Bee Gee Jesus') out of a line up.

As you say, ridiculous.

Offline vagabond

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1335 on: January 18, 2018, 02:30:33 pm »
How ridiculous

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/17/pakistani-humanist-denied-uk-asylum-after-failing-to-identify-plato



Since when are Plato and Aristotle humanists? Both have a very strong theological element to their philosophies.
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Offline Robinred

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1336 on: January 27, 2018, 02:02:41 pm »
Talking of Humanism on a football chat room reminded me of AC Grayling’s famous quote:


“Theistic claims that supernatural agency exists in the universe derive from ancient traditions of belief. The word 'atheist' is a theist's term for a person who does not share such beliefs. Theists think that atheists have a belief or set of beliefs, just as theists do but in the opposite sense, about theism-related questions. This is a mistake; atheists certainly have beliefs about many things, but they are not 'theistic-subject-matter-related beliefs' in any but a single negative sense. For atheism is the absence of 'theistic-subject-matter-related belief. Although it is true that 'absence of belief in supernatural agency' is functionally equivalent to 'belief in the absence of supernatural agency', theists concentrate on the latter formulation in order to make atheism a positive as opposed to privative thesis with regard to theistic-subject-matter-related matters. This is what makes theists think they are in a kind of belief football match, with opposing sets of beliefs vying for our allegiance. What is happening is that the theists are rushing about the park kicking the ball, but the atheists are not playing. They are not even on the field; they are in the stands, arguing that this particular game should not be taking place at all.”
"The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology...as long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth." Mikhail Bakunin

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1337 on: March 13, 2018, 02:26:15 pm »
Scientists have established a link between brain damage and religious fundamentalism

A study published in the journal Neuropsychologia has shown that religious fundamentalism is, in part, the result of a functional impairment in a brain region known as the prefrontal cortex. The findings suggest that damage to particular areas of the prefrontal cortex indirectly promotes religious fundamentalism by diminishing cognitive flexibility and openness—a psychology term that describes a personality trait which involves dimensions like curiosity, creativity, and open-mindedness.

Religious beliefs can be thought of as socially transmitted mental representations that consist of supernatural events and entities assumed to be real. Religious beliefs differ from empirical beliefs, which are based on how the world appears to be and are updated as new evidence accumulates or when new theories with better predictive power emerge. On the other hand, religious beliefs are not usually updated in response to new evidence or scientific explanations, and are therefore strongly associated with conservatism. They are fixed and rigid, which helps promote predictability and coherence to the rules of society among individuals within the group.

Religious fundamentalism refers to an ideology that emphasizes traditional religious texts and rituals and discourages progressive thinking about religion and social issues. Fundamentalist groups generally oppose anything that questions or challenges their beliefs or way of life. For this reason, they are often aggressive towards anyone who does not share their specific set of supernatural beliefs, and towards science, as these things are seen as existential threats to their entire worldview.

Since religious beliefs play a massive role in driving and influencing human behavior throughout the world, it is important to understand the phenomenon of religious fundamentalism from a psychological and neurological perspective.

To investigate the cognitive and neural systems involved in religious fundamentalism, a team of researchers—led by Jordan Grafman of Northwestern University—conducted a study that utilized data from Vietnam War Veterans that had been gathered previously. The vets were specifically chosen because a large number of them had damage to brain areas suspected of playing a critical role in functions related to religious fundamentalism. CT scans were analyzed comparing 119 vets with brain trauma to 30 healthy vets with no damage, and a survey that assessed religious fundamentalism was administered. While the majority of participants were Christians of some kind, 32.5% did not specify a particular religion.

Based on previous research, the experimenters predicted that the prefrontal cortex would play a role in religious fundamentalism, since this region is known to be associated with something called ‘cognitive flexibility’. This term refers to the brain’s ability to easily switch from thinking about one concept to another, and to think about multiple things simultaneously. Cognitive flexibility allows organisms to update beliefs in light of new evidence, and this trait likely emerged because of the obvious survival advantage such a skill provides. It is a crucial mental characteristic for adapting to new environments because it allows individuals to make more accurate predictions about the world under new and changing conditions.

Brain imaging research has shown that a major neural region associated with cognitive flexibility is the prefrontal cortex—specifically two areas known as the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (dlPFC) and the ventromedial prefrontal cortex (vmPFC). Additionally, the vmPFC was of interest to the researchers because past studies have revealed its connection to fundamentalist-type beliefs. For example, one study showed individuals with vmPFC lesions rated radical political statements as more moderate than people with normal brains, while another showed a direct connection between vmPFC damage and religious fundamentalism. For these reasons, in the present study, researchers looked at patients with lesions in both the vmPFC and the dlPFC, and searched for correlations between damage in these areas and responses to religious fundamentalism questionnaires.

Full article

Offline mickl

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1338 on: March 13, 2018, 03:26:34 pm »
Holy shit.

Offline thejbs

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1339 on: March 15, 2018, 01:10:50 am »
Figures

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1341 on: March 31, 2018, 12:44:48 pm »
I have a simple way of looking at this i start from the position of all religions are man made and therefore flawed. so i dont believe in any at all. As for the Bible Old testement a lot of it is like a fairy story in my opinion. Parables are useful though but only in teaching a good way to live your life and how to treat others. 

The one thing i can believe in is the cycle of the seasons although global warming is changing that a bit and some elements in nature such as  its spring you get the Daffs coming up etc.
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline Giono

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1342 on: March 31, 2018, 01:19:48 pm »
I have a simple way of looking at this i start from the position of all religions are man made and therefore flawed. so i dont believe in any at all. As for the Bible Old testement a lot of it is like a fairy story in my opinion. Parables are useful though but only in teaching a good way to live your life and how to treat others. 

The one thing i can believe in is the cycle of the seasons although global warming is changing that a bit and some elements in nature such as  its spring you get the Daffs coming up etc.

There is always the Sun. George Carlin makes a good case for it.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/B4diugMg5kQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/B4diugMg5kQ</a>
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1343 on: March 31, 2018, 08:09:21 pm »
I am enjoying the church funeral and interment in Westminster abbey for Steven Hawking.

An atheist in the home of the church.. love it.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1344 on: March 31, 2018, 08:20:46 pm »
I am enjoying the church funeral and interment in Westminster abbey for Steven Hawking.

An atheist in the home of the church.. love it.

Was Hawking an Atheist?  I thought he hadnt ruled out the possibility of a non interventionist God/creator? Maybe in the interview I saw he was using Dawkins rule that agnostic was the only intellectually honest position.

Or are you using the term Atheist very literally in that he didnt believe in theism/A interventionist God
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1345 on: March 31, 2018, 08:22:36 pm »
Was Hawking an Atheist?  I thought he hadnt ruled out the possibility of a non interventionist God/creator? Maybe in the interview I saw he was using Dawkins rule that agnostic was the only intellectually honest position.

Or are you using the term Atheist very literally in that he didnt believe in theism/A interventionist God

http://time.com/5199149/stephen-hawking-death-god-atheist/

I would call him an atheist..
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1346 on: March 31, 2018, 08:40:39 pm »
http://time.com/5199149/stephen-hawking-death-god-atheist/

I would call him an atheist..

Im sure I watched youtube video where he wouldnt rule out a non interventionist God. However I cant find it, so like God, it probably doesnt exist.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1347 on: March 31, 2018, 08:52:41 pm »
Im sure I watched youtube video where he wouldnt rule out a non interventionist God. However I cant find it, so like God, it probably doesnt exist.
You can’t absolutely rule it out.  There’s no evidence for it and it’s encouraging unlikely, but you can’t rule things out, that’s not how science works.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1348 on: March 31, 2018, 10:17:22 pm »
You can’t absolutely rule it out.  There’s no evidence for it and it’s encouraging unlikely, but you can’t rule things out, that’s not how science works.

Thats basically what Hawkins said in this video clip I cant find. It cant be ruled out and Hawkins work does leave room for things yet unexplained.





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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1349 on: April 1, 2018, 03:41:09 pm »
Scientifically we cant currently rule out the existence of deities but we can rule out many of them. For example, if the biblical god is as claimed in the bible, then it doesnt exist as evolution counters the account of creationism. At best they can claim the creationist account was a story but that throws the historical veracity of the bible into disarray.

Hawking was an atheist. Any claim he was agnostic would mean that everyone has to be classified as agnostic.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1350 on: April 3, 2018, 10:09:53 am »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43588465

Grim reading on the weekend where Christians are celebrating a human sacrifice.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1351 on: April 3, 2018, 11:31:03 am »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43588465

Grim reading on the weekend where Christians are celebrating a human sacrifice.
That’s not what that article says at all.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1352 on: April 3, 2018, 01:15:05 pm »
Scientifically we cant currently rule out the existence of deities but we can rule out many of them. For example, if the biblical god is as claimed in the bible, then it doesnt exist as evolution counters the account of creationism. At best they can claim the creationist account was a story but that throws the historical veracity of the bible into disarray.

Hawking was an atheist. Any claim he was agnostic would mean that everyone has to be classified as agnostic.

Tepid's posted link would suggest that Hawkins was an atheist. I questioned it as I had watched a video on you tube where he woldn't rule out a creator. However this was quite an old video so looks like he's changed his mind on this.

I would say evolution dispels gods creation of Humans, rather than the Universe. 

I cant put a link in as Im in work, however Dawkins discusses the fact that no one can be an atheist in the truest sense as you can prove something doesn't exist.

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1353 on: April 3, 2018, 01:46:22 pm »
I cant put a link in as Im in work, however Dawkins discusses the fact that no one can be an atheist in the truest sense as you can prove something doesn't exist.

That's technically true but not very helpful. Nobody can be 100% sure there isn't a god but you can't be 100% sure it's not me, either.

Dawkins had a scale as follows:



He described himself as a 6.9. I'd add a few 9s to that.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1354 on: April 3, 2018, 05:31:31 pm »
Yeah me too..

Whilst you can’t absolutely discount there being a ‘god’, on the same grounds I can’t discount me becoming galactic president on Wednesday.
« Last Edit: April 3, 2018, 05:44:25 pm by Tepid T₂O »
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1355 on: April 3, 2018, 05:43:38 pm »
Depending on the right definition of god, I'm anywhere between a 3 and a 5 on any given day.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1356 on: April 3, 2018, 06:02:04 pm »
agnosticism is a cop out
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1357 on: April 3, 2018, 06:13:57 pm »
God, as defined in religion?  I'm a 6.9-7 on that one. 

God, as in an entity that operates at a supernatural level that we don't currently understand, applying some purpose to its interventions?  5.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1358 on: April 3, 2018, 06:23:10 pm »
agnosticism is a cop out

Glad you have all the answers there.
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because of a church that stands somewhere in the East.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #1359 on: April 3, 2018, 06:32:15 pm »
That's technically true but not very helpful. Nobody can be 100% sure there isn't a god but you can't be 100% sure it's not me, either.

Dawkins had a scale as follows:



He described himself as a 6.9. I'd add a few 9s to that.

Well I was being technical.   ;D


If it was you, wouldnt we have won a few more titles recently?
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.