Topic: Tories really really aren't very nice at all are they? (***)

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Perhaps they just want the whole electorate to be innumerate. It is the only way to make sense of Brexit after all.

Nah just the oiks.

[DonkeyWan]

This new proposal on student fees is bizarre..

Lower fee for arts courses .... why?  Because you don’t earn as much on the back of them.  However, the whole point of the loans system is that your repayments are linked to your earnings.  It makes no sense.

And there’s an even bigger issue.  We cannot get enough people to do science, technology, maths and engineering subjects.... so making it cheaper to do other courses?  Bizarre.

That’s not going to help numbers doing stem courses is it.

Bonkers

Am more concerned they will create a stigma around cheaper courses (where the reward is not necessarily job earnings). The problem with the Tories is they keep using an education as a proxy for future earnings, which is not what an education is for (tis a happy byproduct of).

[Zeb]

Am more concerned they will create a stigma around cheaper courses (where the reward is not necessarily job earnings). The problem with the Tories is they keep using an education as a proxy for future earnings, which is not what an education is for (tis a happy byproduct of).

Amen.

Thing I've taken from the proposals is that those who'd benefit most will be those who don't need loans (affluent backgrounds) and those who'll pay off all or almost all their loans (those who will be the highest earners). If you could pinpoint a potential Tory demographic among students...

Think there's a lot of merit in the argument that we should stop with presenting this as loans, with all the assumptions which come with that, and reframe the whole system as a graduate tax where repayment is linked to future earnings.

[damomad]

Has anyone ever seen breakdown of how much an average university course costs for the university itself?

It's difficult, I know, because your fee is also contributing to a lot more than just the course. Though, if it was wider knowledge perhaps we could empathise with them a good bit more (or rage at them).

[Skeeve]

If we are putting off students because of the debt and fees then the system is wrong. The only people who would then get put off is lower income family students, making university a much more middle class place.

The fee system is wrong and the twats in charge should fix, but since we all know they are useless c*nts who probably won't do that, making it even more wrong by financially encouraging students to take less science courses seems like a bloody stupid idea.

[TepidT2O]

Has anyone ever seen breakdown of how much an average university course costs for the university itself?

It's difficult, I know, because your fee is also contributing to a lot more than just the course. Though, if it was wider knowledge perhaps we could empathise with them a good bit more (or rage at them).

My course (chemistry) would be way more than £9000.  As would medicine and anything with a practical element to it.

[cowtownred]

My course (chemistry) would be way more than £9000.  As would medicine and anything with a practical element to it.

I was a medical student 1979-84.  We were told it cost upwards of £100,000 (in those days) to educate each of us. Which is why they rarely threw anyone off the course...fortunately for me!!

[killer-heels]

As expected May has ruled out scrapping fees and instead will kick off a review. More than likely in a year they wont give a shit about the outcome of it. Clearly a way to get some positive press for the Tories.

[Jiminy Cricket]

I was a medical student 1979-84.  We were told it cost upwards of £100,000 (in those days) to educate each of us. Which is why they rarely threw anyone off the course...fortunately for me!!

Now, isn't that reassuring!?

[cowtownred]

Now, isn't that reassuring!?

I did alright!  So did the thousands who have my hip replacements etc in situ..

Mind you in our student days we used to look around the lecture theatre to pick out the 'law of 10'.  ie were there 10 people thicker than us among the 150 students?  If so, we were alright!

[Jiminy Cricket]

I did alright!  So did the thousands who have my hip replacements etc in situ..

Mind you in our student days we used to look around the lecture theatre to pick out the 'law of 10'.  ie were there 10 people thicker than us among the 150 students?  If so, we were alright!

No worries - I did not take your comments seriously (about yourself). But, the larger issue of incentives to keep people who were ill-suited - not good. Of course, though, it happens in all walks of life.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/19/westminster-councillor-received-gifts-and-hospitality-514-times-in-three-years

He's done nothing wrong though. That's what the article says. Course he hasn't. Nothing dodgy has gone on there, no sir.

[killer-heels]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/19/westminster-councillor-received-gifts-and-hospitality-514-times-in-three-years

He's done nothing wrong though. That's what the article says. Course he hasn't. Nothing dodgy has gone on there, no sir.

Its mad that public officials are allowed such ‘gifts’.

[Zeb]

Royal College of Psychiatrists have taken a look at Mental Health funding in the NHS. This is something May and Hunt consistently claim has improved, and there's a long list of announcements on 'new' things which they parade out to prove it. The psychiatrists would beg to differ after looking at the detail.



Jay Watts (a clinical psychologist) breaks it down some more, in its effects on services, in the Indie.

Funding is now skewed to services for those with common mental health conditions, where large numbers of people can be seen, treated and discharged quickly, as opposed to prioritising those most in need (whose treatment costs more). Even in services like Improving Access to Psychological Therapies that serve those with milder mental health problems, therapists are intimidated into seeing patients for less than the number of sessions the evidence-base requires to mask unrealistic service contracts. These issues are producing record levels of burnout across NHS mental health services in staff members. Indeed the task for staff has now become performing, rather than providing care, a reversal which staff fight against each and every day.

[DJBrenton]

https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2018/02/17/my-ready-meal-is-none-of-your-fucking-business/


Great blog piece.

[Libertine]

https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/966290767668039681

Neil back on form - a reminder of how good he used to be before his Brexit bias destroyed him.

[killer-heels]

https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/966290767668039681

Neil back on form - a reminder of how good he used to be before his Brexit bias destroyed him.

Nailed him. I hope to see Neil get in front of Gavin Williamson as well. A Dauly Mail politician if ever there was one.

[Trada]

Stromz on the Brits must have hit home or worried about the youth vote but Downing street released a statement.

PM "absolutely committed" to supporting people affected by Grenfell Tower tragedy, Downing Street says, after@Stormzy1 criticised her at the Brits.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/rANwUajzQoA&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/rANwUajzQoA&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>

[Lush is the best medicine...]

It’s responding to one of the big stories of the day nothing more than that

[Trada]

It’s responding to one of the big stories of the day nothing more than that

Usually they won't even worry about this, let alone release a statement they are worried about the London vote.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Usually they won't even worry about this, let alone release a statement they are worried about the London vote.

have you any examples of when they’ve outright ignored big stories like this?

[Mutton Geoff]

have you any examples of when they’ve outright ignored big stories like this?

i suppose the best example is the Tories have not carried out even close to their promises to rehouse these people but you wont find it mentioned too much in the papers, so maybe he is simply bringing it back into the mainstream in the hope that the Tories get their collective arses into gear or by some remote fluke the papers actually hold the govt to task over this.

[Peabee]

have you any examples of when they’ve outright ignored big stories like this?

They’re good at getting a statement out there, I’ll give them that, but whether they act on it is questionable. 

[Lush is the best medicine...]

i suppose the best example is the Tories have not carried out even close to their promises to rehouse these people but you wont find it mentioned too much in the papers, so maybe he is simply bringing it back into the mainstream in the hope that the Tories get their collective arses into gear or by some remote fluke the papers actually hold the govt to task over this.

its a lot more difficult said than done though, especially if they rehouse them in that area

They’re good at getting a statement out there, I’ll give them that, but whether they act on it is questionable. 

itd be beyond idiotic not to to be honest, and that’s looking at it purely from an electoral perspective not a moral one

[BobOnATank]

have you any examples of when they’ve outright ignored big stories like this?

Migration/immigration targets.

[Trada]

No shock really.

Culture Secretary Matt Hancock says government will not implement second stage of the Leveson Inquiry into press standards and regulation

[KillieRed]

No shock really.

Culture Secretary Matt Hancock says government will not implement second stage of the Leveson Inquiry into press standards and regulation

Rupert say no.

[Libertine]

Lost a donor....


@faisalislam
Tory donor @PimlicoPlumbers Charlie Mullins tells @adamboultonSKY All Out Politics that he has spoken to Vince Cable, and he’ll now financially support the Lib Dem’s because of the Government’s position on Brexit

[CornerFlag]

Regarding the Tories not going through with Leveson 2: HOLY SHI... oh no, never mind.  Fucking normality with that shower.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Good thread this

https://twitter.com/jamesmb/status/969567274486124544?s=21

[Zeb]

May be of interest to some. Austerity and its costs.

The UK now has a surplus on the government’s current budget. George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford tweeted “We got there in the end — a remarkable national effort. Thank you.” This has been a remarkable period in UK macroeconomic history, but not in the way Osborne thinks. A majority of economists have always been against trying to reduce the deficit when interest rates are stuck at their lower bound, a majority Osborne chose to ignore. So what has been the cost of this “remarkable national effort”?

The final figure suggests the national effort to reduce the deficit cost over 15% of GDP, which when GDP is around 2 trillion and there are 27 million households, gives over £10,000 per household.

£10,000 for each household is an average figure, but we know that austerity did not fall evenly, but was concentrated on those at the bottom end of the income distribution. It is certain that cuts to social care and the NHS cost lives: it is just a question of how many thousands of lives we are talking about.

And then there is the political cost of austerity. The Coalition government, and particularly our current Prime Minister, has used immigration as a scapegoat for the impact of austerity. With the help of the right wing press that scapegoating has worked. In particular, as I show here, many people believe that immigration has been bad for public services like the NHS. In reality the opposite is true, but the government and press have succeeded in creating what I call a politicised truth: something that is believed to be true just because politicians and the media keep saying it is.

Simon Wren Lewis


Bravo Gideon.

[Mutton Geoff]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-stopped-sneaking-through-cuts-12146487

Amazed that this doesnt make most right minded people angry:

[cloggypop]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/12/tory-links-russia-saudi-links-corbyn-spy-extremism?CMP=share_btn_fb

[cloggypop]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/11/tories-will-not-return-820000-russia-linked-donations-philip/

[SP]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-stopped-sneaking-through-cuts-12146487

Amazed that this doesnt make most right minded people angry:

It was posted a while ago in the Labour topic.

[SP]

RAWK is not a news aggregator. If you think a link contains something worth discussing, at least attempt to start the debate with a sentence or two.

[Trada]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-stopped-sneaking-through-cuts-12146487

Amazed that this doesnt make most right minded people angry:

If I remember rightly the vote is tomorrow and the Tories are trying to get the DUP to vote with them by saying Ireland wont lose its school meals.

[Yorkykopite]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/11/tories-will-not-return-820000-russia-linked-donations-philip/

Thanks for this.

They're just the same as Labour. Which is to be expected I suppose.

[cloggypop]

Yes. Being paid to appear on foreign telly is exactly the same as accepting millions for private access from Russian oligarchs. Exactly the same. No false equivalence there whatsoever.

[SP]

Is this loophole in election law whereby Russians cannot donate directly, but can purchase items at a fundraising auction as it is viewed as a commercial transaction not a gift?

There needs to be a thorough investigation of Russian money in U.K. politics. Unfortunately May is so shit scared of uncovering anything that proves Russian interference in the referendum that they just won’t look.

But today is not the day for poking that hornets’ nest.