Topic: Anfield Road Redevelopment

[meady1981]

ANNOUNCE ANNIE ROAD #fsg #pauljoyce #moores #family #sparewarchest

[armchair-fan]

ANNOUNCE ANNIE ROAD #fsg #pauljoyce #moores #family #sparewarchest

I couldn't agree more.  The Van Dijk and Lemar money must buy you a fair bit of steel and concrete, although I'm sure an financial 'expert' will tell me the money for the ground and the money for players are two entirely different things.  Maybe because it suits my convenience, as an occasional attender who doesn't know loads of lads who go and can sort me out with tickets, I'd prefer the additional capacity to buying some centre back who hasn't kicked a ball for 8 months and might turn out to be shit.  Having experienced the relatively primitive conditions of the Anfield Road now and again, not to mention the purely aesthetic need, as it currently looks like a League One stand attached to one end of a Premier League ground, it's surely almost time to get moving on this.

I appreciate an extra few thousand seats won't bring in the £ of the main stand corporates, but it would help to ease the ticketing problems a little.  I would have thought that we continued to fill the ground each week last season with the additional capacity would indicate that we'd most likely fill an expanded Anfield Road too.

I know some regard having an up-to-date stadium as nothing more than dick swinging versus other clubs, but I do believe it adds to the prestige of the club, as well as just looking nice and bringing in some additional revenue.  The costs which just a few years ago sounded vast now appear tiny when set against the pool of cash the Premier League clubs wallow in, and it was after all a big part of the FSG pitch back in 2010, so 7 years isn't too impatient, is it?

On a more practical note, if I take my young un to the Etihad many more times for an accessible hit of live Premier League action it might send her off on a lifetime of following the wrong team!

[meady1981]

To be honest mate, literally all I've ever really cared about is the atmosphere at a game. When I watch on the tv Im more interested in how the crowd are doing. NOTHING in life compares to being at a game where there is a good atmosphere. When everyone is up for it and there is an electricity in the air its worth more than millions to the club. If a new Annie road helps towards that then I'd take that over any signing. Particularly if it means that more young local lads can get in for a cheaper price. People have their opinions on why the atmosphere is shite, I firmly believe its because there isn't enough local familiarity anymore and that needs to be addressed pronto.

[Kop Kenny]

In consideration of the progressive development of Anfield and the fact now that almost all of our EPL rivals have or are in a state of ground development then I don't think we can delay this any longer. The ARE is completely inadequate now and as pointed out in an earlier response looks completely out of place these days, it is like the end of the ground we couldn't afford to re-build.

Now that we have more money from TV, EPL & CL coming in it simply must be a priority to redevelop this end of the stadium as we are being left behind in terms of stadium revenue as everyone else builds new stadia or redevelops the one they have.

Even the blue sh*te are hoping to embark on a potentially bankrupting new stadium build bankrolled by the council which if it comes to fruition will be the best stadium in the beazer homes league. FSG chosing to redevelop Anfield now seems to be a very astute call as opposed to a potentially ruinously costly new build but it needs to continue now and now would be the time to discuss with the council the options for redeveloping the Kop as well before the whole area gets rebuilt.

We've proved that there is a demand still for more tickets with the Main Stand rebuild and I don't think we would have any problem filling 60K seats every week if we now do the same with the ARE too and it would also improve the aesthetic look of our currently lop sided stadium at the same time. If that proved to be as successful as the main stand development then we could start to look at a potential 65K limit as the next step.

[Macred]

I was watching a video of the Anfield Tour, fairly recent one, and since the main stand had been opened; the tour guide stated to the group that that there was huge demand for tickets and every game they are still turning away 20,000 applications. The ARE has to be a no brainer and sooner rather than later.

[Smurfite]

A long stretch but I might have a theory as to why they haven't moved forward yet. When I was at the meeting at The Liner, about the potential of Rail Seating, Rick Riding of the Sports Ground Safety Authority said they were currently writing up the potential specifications for if any Rail Seating area were to be allowed within England. Perhaps they are waiting to find out these specifications so we could build a stand that could potentially be converted into a Rail Seating area at a later point. I mean why build a massive stand if it limits your potential options for the future when you could just wait and proceed with the full information of whats required? Still wish they would hurry up with it though 

[sminp]

I'm quite confident it will happen eventually. I know they are looking into it properly as they have asked United Utilities to provide information on the costs and work needed for an increase in water supply (I work for United Utilities), this was a while back and they've had the details for some time now on this. That doesn't mean it will happen but they are at the very least looking into all the details and costs.

[andy07]

A long stretch but I might have a theory as to why they haven't moved forward yet. When I was at the meeting at The Liner, about the potential of Rail Seating, Rick Riding of the Sports Ground Safety Authority said they were currently writing up the potential specifications for if any Rail Seating area were to be allowed within England. Perhaps they are waiting to find out these specifications so we could build a stand that could potentially be converted into a Rail Seating area at a later point. I mean why build a massive stand if it limits your potential options for the future when you could just wait and proceed with the full information of whats required? Still wish they would hurry up with it though 

The rail seating aspect would come into play on the lower tier.   Any expansion will add another 5-7000 seats on the upper tier that will remain seats regardless of the safe standing debate (2500 now to 7500-9500 in total).   The new concourses and entrances for the lower tier can be future proofed for any potential increase in capacity for safe standing (say 6000 seats becomes 8000 standing places).  So crack on now...

The KD / Centenary / Kemlyn will have to be considered for future expansion to ensure that the ARE roof truss is located in a position that would enable this to take place.

[lfc79]

Looking at what other clubs are doing Spurs got 68k for the home game against Burnley at Wembley, the upper tier was priced at £25, their new stadium will be just under 62k. The cynic in me would suggest that clubs have an interest in ensuring that stadiums remain under sized to ensure they can keep ticket prices up.
I know there are issue regarding transport links at anfield but expanding capacity and being able to offer more discounted tickets for kids would be ensuring the club's future rather than worrying about short term repayments or difficulties in raising ticket prices

[Danny Boy]

Looking at what other clubs are doing Spurs got 68k for the home game against Burnley at Wembley, the upper tier was priced at £25, their new stadium will be just under 62k. The cynic in me would suggest that clubs have an interest in ensuring that stadiums remain under sized to ensure they can keep ticket prices up.
I know there are issue regarding transport links at anfield but expanding capacity and being able to offer more discounted tickets for kids would be ensuring the club's future rather than worrying about short term repayments or difficulties in raising ticket prices

Are you aware that both of Spurs' home games this season have not sold out? The upper tiers were part closed for both games as the tickets couldn't get shifted on General Sale. Chelsea had security implications around it as well but Burnley was 20k sub capacity.

From speaking to my brother in law who is a ST holder at Wembley, there are so many spares floating at the moment that can't be shifted. So don't believe everything you're seeing/reading about Spurs at Wembley.

[ChrisLFCKOP]

But part of the coniditions that they used the stadium that only a certain numbers of games could be at 90k and the rest at a reduced capacitiy (around 60k)....could it be this for those two games?

[dudleyred]

But part of the coniditions that they used the stadium that only a certain numbers of games could be at 90k and the rest at a reduced capacitiy (around 60k)....could it be this for those two games?

yes think you're right - read somewhere the first few games were reduced capacity and then the full 90k after that

[lfc79]

Its the big London games that have restrictions, the rest will be full capacity, my point was it good that there are unsold tickets and spare floating around as it forces them to keep prices low, £25 for burnley, you can add at least another £10 onto that price when they move into their new stadium next year.
What's good for fans is not what's good for clubs profits and I would suspect that part of that is linked to our owners though on further redevelopment.
At the moment I have not been able to get a ticket for the Burnley game but there are still hospitality tickets available, add another 7k seats how many people would be buying Thomas cook match breaks?

[redprodigal]

But part of the coniditions that they used the stadium that only a certain numbers of games could be at 90k and the rest at a reduced capacitiy (around 60k)....could it be this for those two games?

Nope, they got permission to have full capacity for them all but some will be reduced for safety reasons. They only sold about 70,000 for the Chelsea game to fans registered on their membership and they weren't allowed to sell the rest on general sale so they had to stop selling them. As lfc79 said the big London games will probably have restrictions?
They're only allowing the minimum allocation of 3000 for away fans too.

[Danny Boy]

From someone who is London born and bred, with many Spurs supporting friends and family members, I can assure you that there are plenty of spares available for every game so far. Both games so far were under-capacity because they either didn't sell out (Burnley) or they didn't want to put the unsold tickets on general sale due to security (Chelsea).

The only other game with the security issue this season is Arsenal. Anything else sub-90k will be down to poor ticket sales.

[dudleyred]

I stand corrected - apologies

Interesting they couldn't sell out for Burnley given its early in the season. Perhaps next few weeks will be a fairer reflection

[Macred]

I stand corrected - apologies

Interesting they couldn't sell out for Burnley given its early in the season. Perhaps next few weeks will be a fairer reflection

Spurs just aint a big club, even though they think they are.

[clinical]

I think this needs doing now, even if payback is longer than they'd like. It stills adds value to the club and also with the amount of money available in the game now whats £80m on a new stand? Safe investment if you ask me.

[Kop Kenny]

Spurs not selling out their temporary home of Wembley is moving away from the topic. Their new stadium is only 62,000 not the 90,000 of Wembley. Spurs can easily fill that 62,000 stadium and they will. Arsenal regularly fill the Emirates as do Manure and Manchester City.

We could easily fill a 60,000 and most likely a 65,000 all seater stadium without even rail seating (that's a whole emotive other issue) so why are we procrastinating about this, we can afford it easily and we are losing money over it and denying many of our suporters the chance to see their team as a result.

[Alan B'Stard]

I think this needs doing now, even if payback is longer than they'd like. It stills adds value to the club and also with the amount of money available in the game now whats £80m on a new stand? Safe investment if you ask me.

Very true..... you don't really lose money in bricks and mortar. If it's £80M then I don't see what the issue would be in proceeding with the redevelopment.

[Peter McGurk]

Very true..... you don't really lose money in bricks and mortar. If it's £80M then I don't see what the issue would be in proceeding with the redevelopment.

Simple maths as ever. £80m for an extra 4,500 seats at say £1,000 per seat per annum extra income would give or take, take 20 years to pay back (even interest-free).

Not much added value and very easy to go the other way.

But then if it's all about money, the club should have stopped at 51,000 and this is football, where money doesn't matter...

[Alan_X]

Very true..... you don't really lose money in bricks and mortar. If it's £80M then I don't see what the issue would be in proceeding with the redevelopment.

A football stadium isn't bricks and mortar. It's a dedicated facility for playing football and without the right team, the right catchment area and some degree of success it's useless.

[Alan B'Stard]

Simple maths as ever. £80m for an extra 4,500 seats at say £1,000 per seat per annum extra income would give or take, take 20 years to pay back (even interest-free).

Not much added value and very easy to go the other way.

But then if it's all about money, the club should have stopped at 51,000 and this is football, where money doesn't matter...

I understand it's not quite as black and white. In this day and age though, I wouldn't have thought it's all about how a season ticket to match day goer is able to pay each seat back. With TV money ever increasing and the diverse commercial deals the club agrees to, the payback would be far less.

I'm not anti FSG and actually support the owners, but I do think sometimes they play the fans with this payback none sense. The stadium and the club are going nowhere.... if they decide to sell in 5yrs time they would receive a return on their investment including the CapEx for the Annie Rd project.

[Alan B'Stard]

A football stadium isn't bricks and mortar. It's a dedicated facility for playing football and without the right team, the right catchment area and some degree of success it's useless.

I understand that, and is fundamentally a world class sports facilty first and foremost, however my point is the club won't lose and only stands to gain with investment.

[Peter McGurk]

I understand it's not quite as black and white. In this day and age though, I wouldn't have thought it's all about how a season ticket to match day goer is able to pay each seat back. With TV money ever increasing and the diverse commercial deals the club agrees to, the payback would be far less.

I'm not anti FSG and actually support the owners, but I do think sometimes they play the fans with this payback none sense. The stadium and the club are going nowhere.... if they decide to sell in 5yrs time they would receive a return on their investment including the CapEx for the Annie Rd project.

It's entirely black and white. You can't make nonsense out of the maths. 'Capex' does not add value. Return adds value. It makes no sense to invest beautifully profitable TV and Commercial money in low-grade, low-return investment in a stadium.

The return is very, very low and the risk very, very high. It will only be the club that wants it, not FSG - a bit like the main stand. FSG have a bit more sense.

FSG can invest £80m in better players now for what value that brings or wait for 20 years for their money to dribble back to them (or more likely insist the club pays it back in 5 years and let them suck it up for the next 15). I'm sorry. What was the question?

[Keith Lard]

It's entirely black and white. You can't make nonsense out of the maths. 'Capex' does not add value. Return adds value. It makes no sense to invest beautifully profitable TV and Commercial money in low-grade, low-return investment in a stadium.

The return is very, very low and the risk very, very high. It will only be the club that wants it, not FSG - a bit like the main stand. FSG have a bit more sense.

FSG can invest £80m in better players now for what value that brings or wait for 20 years for their money to dribble back to them (or more likely insist the club pays it back in 5 years and let them suck it up for the next 15). I'm sorry. What was the question?

I feel you miss one key thing, which is the subtle payback of being perceived as a bigger club, providing a better matchday experience, getting more supporters into the ground which boosts the matchday experience. Financially, you also have more supporters to sell to on matchday and increased ticket revenue, but that's just part of the argument. You need to look after the supporters to protect the brand. Investing in the stadium is an investment in the brand.

I would argue spaffing £80m on one player is a low grade investment and a big risk when balanced against stadium investment that has multiple payback for many years to come. I trust that there is activity happening in the background, just like there was for the Main Stand. Because the alternative, which is dragging heels on the ARE redevelopment makes zero sense to me. The Main stand provides a shining example of how our status has been boosted, and should incentivise us to keep increasing.

I would argue it would be a great investment in the brand by creating more low cost seats to get more local supporters into the ground. The game is flushed with cash and £80m really should be small change for even a speculative investment on further stadium development.

[PaulD]

I feel you miss one key thing, which is the subtle payback of being perceived as a bigger club, providing a better matchday experience, getting more supporters into the ground which boosts the matchday experience. Financially, you also have more supporters to sell to on matchday and increased ticket revenue, but that's just part of the argument. You need to look after the supporters to protect the brand. Investing in the stadium is an investment in the brand.

Both Peter and Alan thankfully have always been very good at keeping our stadium expectations as fans 'grounded' but this post does touch on the holistic, intangible point of perceived greater brand value - something in any future sale that would be taken into account. As such it does have potential.

[Alan_X]

Both Peter and Alan thankfully have always been very good at keeping our stadium expectations as fans 'grounded' but this post does touch on the holistic, intangible point of perceived greater brand value - something in any future sale that would be taken into account. As such it does have potential.

The best case for the Anfield Road is the atmosphere in the new Upper Tier and the local seats in U1 and U9 in particular. The ARE extension might not stack up in terms of tickets sales if the seats are all General Admission but a noisy stand full of mostly young and mostly local supporters urging on Klopp's Reds is only going to improve the chances of Liverpool winning trophies. And winning trophies is what improves 'the brand' more than anything else.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

The best case for the Anfield Road is the atmosphere in the new Upper Tier and the local seats in U1 and U9 in particular. The ARE extension might not stack up in terms of tickets sales if the seats are all General Admission but a noisy stand full of mostly young and mostly local supporters urging on Klopp's Reds is only going to improve the chances of Liverpool winning trophies. And winning trophies is what improves 'the brand' more than anything else.

I agree with this but from what we have seen from FSG in the past they tend not to do intangibles. However, we have seen a bit of shift from them with their apparent willingness to spend big on Klopp's targets. Klopp clearly understands the importance of a big loud crowd and may have some influence here.
Also the fan survey which contained lots of feedback about locals, youngsters, atmosphere in general, which of course led to Tony Barrett's role will have played a part - so maybe they will see that a bigger ground, with more young noisy enthusiastic fans actually helps the atmosphere, helps the team win, builds the brand etc.
Maybe we'll end up with a sort of compromise. I think that given we are still selling a fair amount of offsite corporate packages with seats in the Anny Rd, FSG will build a stand with some corporate facilities to reduce the payback period, but will also hopefully have enough space for young loud support.
Here's hoping.

[macca007]

I'm still of the understanding that the main with its corporate was built so it could in time pay for the anny road so the average supporter actually has a chance to go the match.  And the demand is there. Fuck catchment area, I've been on the season ticket waiting list now since around 2003. And I'm still about 7000 last time I checked (recently).  I've paid the fucking ticket membership fee for a remote chance at a ticket. Can I get one, can I fuck. Tried for every game this season and i live in the L postcode area. Got on the sale for seville in 13 mins the other day and it was sold out. Still get tickets when I can off season tickets holders who can't make the odd game but the anny road needs to happen.  Especially as fuck knows how hard it will be if I have a kid and want to take them in the future

[carl123uk]

Whatever expansion they make from now on should just go straight off the season ticket waiting list. Get that down to zero and re evaluate it all after

[macca007]

Whatever expansion they make from now on should just go straight off the season ticket waiting list. Get that down to zero and re evaluate it all after

And that would mean expanding to fuck knows how big.  If your over 25,000 on the waiting list they dont even give you a number and I know a few who are without a number.  And I understand that a few on the waiting list are the general admission lot so could be a false number in regards to capacity, but still the anny road will not satisfy the demand or even close.

[Peter McGurk]

Both Peter and Alan thankfully have always been very good at keeping our stadium expectations as fans 'grounded' but this post does touch on the holistic, intangible point of perceived greater brand value - something in any future sale that would be taken into account. As such it does have potential.

It may have marginal effect on 'brand value', I doubt it but calling it a good or safe investment at £20,000 an extra seat is just nonsense.

It'll happen one day. I still say after the main stand has been paid for at least but as an investment it makes more sense to spend £80m on players and the 'brand value' they bring. If they don't work out, at least they can be sold.

I'm still of the understanding that the main with its corporate was built so it could in time pay for the anny road so the average supporter actually has a chance to go the match...

Nah. Who said that?

[CraigDS]

I'm still of the understanding that the main with its corporate was built so it could in time pay for the anny road so the average supporter actually has a chance to go the match.  And the demand is there. Fuck catchment area, I've been on the season ticket waiting list now since around 2003. And I'm still about 7000 last time I checked (recently).  I've paid the fucking ticket membership fee for a remote chance at a ticket. Can I get one, can I fuck. Tried for every game this season and i live in the L postcode area. Got on the sale for seville in 13 mins the other day and it was sold out. Still get tickets when I can off season tickets holders who can't make the odd game but the anny road needs to happen.  Especially as fuck knows how hard it will be if I have a kid and want to take them in the future

You can't get one ticket?

I know my cousin and his mates left uni a few years back, no credits at all, and last season were able to get tickets to pretty much every game (think some random games they couldn't) after building credits up. So it's definitely possible to do it. .

[macca007]

You can't get one ticket?

I know my cousin and his mates left uni a few years back, no credits at all, and last season were able to get tickets to pretty much every game (think some random games they couldn't) after building credits up. So it's definitely possible to do it. .

This season no. Past few years all the tickets I've had have usually been off season ticket holders (shared one for a few years with someone) so missed out on most of the credits and trying for the last sales. But still reckon I've been on the season ticket waiting list now for at least 14 years so the demand has to be there for the upgrade. And yeah the main stand will pay for itself quicker but surely we can't just satisfy the corporate.

[Barneylfc∗]

This season no. Past few years all the tickets I've had have usually been off season ticket holders (shared one for a few years with someone) so missed out on most of the credits.  But still reckon I've been on the season ticket waiting list now for at least 14 years so the demand has to be there for the upgrade. And yeah the main stand will pay for itself quicker but surely we can't just satisfy the corporate.

There were plenty of Palace tickets for sale right up to the day of the match. You could also have got an Arsenal ticket easily enough. This nonsense about not being able to buy tickets gets thrown out repeatedly. But it's bollocks. Fair enough if you only try the bulk sales and nothing else, but when there's plenty of tickets available for days on end on late sales, there is no excuse.

[macca007]

There were plenty of Palace tickets for sale right up to the day of the match. You could also have got an Arsenal ticket easily enough. This nonsense about not being able to buy tickets gets thrown out repeatedly. But it's bollocks. Fair enough if you only try the bulk sales and nothing else, but when there's plenty of tickets available for days on end on late sales, there is no excuse.

Working shifts in a hospital and needing tickets early at times to sort out the shifts is an excuse.  Only game I couldnt make was palace due to the shifts.  Aside from that point as its going off topic, you think the demand isnt there for the anny road?

[CraigDS]

Working shifts in a hospital and needing tickets early at times to sort out the shifts is an excuse.  Only game I couldnt make was palace due to the shifts.  Aside from that point as its going off topic, you think the demand isnt there for the anny road?

No mate I'd say it is almost certainly there, it was more just questioning the availability of tickets as I know first hand that if people want them then it is possible to get hold and build up credits.

[macca007]

No mate I'd say it is almost certainly there, it was more just questioning the availability of tickets as I know first hand that if people want them then it is possible to get hold and build up credits.

When I say getting tickets I mean for my fancard.  Been the match this year a few times, had a ticket for hoffenheim off here, but building up the credits for myself hasn't been possible so far.  Wont stop trying like, but still how hard it is to get tickets and how long and where I still am on the season ticket waiting list defo points to the demand for an anny road expansion is there.  The 'it takes too long to pay back' arguement shouldn't be taken for the individual stand as I always understood the main stand and corporate to be a way of financing the anny aswell.  Unless people are advocating we only look after the more well off amongst us.

[Barneylfc∗]

Working shifts in a hospital and needing tickets early at times to sort out the shifts is an excuse.  Only game I couldnt make was palace due to the shifts.  Aside from that point as its going off topic, you think the demand isnt there for the anny road?

SO what is stopping you getting tickets is your shifts, and not ticket availability then.

Yes, the damand is there. Plenty missed out on the bulk sales, and as has been pointed out, there are thousands on the waiting list for a season ticket.