Topic: Brazilian Porn Review Topic (Warning: may contain Wijnaldum)

[Qston]

If ever there was an example of the manager really knowing a player and how he should be played this is it. He didn`t play in that position at all for Newcastle. I didn`t have a clue that he is the sort of midfielder that he is currently playing as. I admit to be completely thrown when I say his name on the first team sheet and wondering where he would fit in. This could turn out to be a very astute piece of business. He has all the hallmarks of being a very very rounded midfielder.

[jepovic]

He looks tidy and strong, but I'm not sold yet. This goes for the whole midfield as well. The question marks from last season are how they fare against teams that sit low and make it hard for us, and how they react when we get a bad start. Then it's not going to be enough to be tidy and calm.

A good start is really hepful though. Looking at 13/14, we usually think about the fantastic spring. But without the hard work and less than brilliant 1-0 wins in the beginning, I don't think we would have had that spring.

[SerbianScouser]

how they fare against teams that sit low and make it hard for us, and how they react when we get a bad start. Then it's not going to be enough to be tidy and calm.

Well that`s an interesting point for discussion. Do we need a 3 man midfield for Hull at home? There`s no midfield battle to be won as Hull will park the bus like all other Hulls of the world that come to Anfield this season. Personally I`d rather we find a way to squeeze all 4 of Phil, Sturridge, Mane and Firmino into the team in these kind of games, I`m pretty sure we can be just as good in a slightly different shape to 433.

[PaulF]

Well that`s an interesting point for discussion. Do we need a 3 man midfield for Hull at home? There`s no midfield battle to be won as Hull will park the bus like all other Hulls of the world that come to Anfield this season. Personally I`d rather we find a way to squeeze all 4 of Phil, Sturridge, Mane and Firmino into the team in these kind of games, I`m pretty sure we can be just as good in a slightly different shape to 433.

Arsenal (historically)  have been very good at the flat track bully thing. How do they approach the park-the-bus games? Possibly they never face it the same way we do as they're often considered to have a soft underbelly.

[wemmick]

Well that`s an interesting point for discussion. Do we need a 3 man midfield for Hull at home? There`s no midfield battle to be won as Hull will park the bus like all other Hulls of the world that come to Anfield this season. Personally I`d rather we find a way to squeeze all 4 of Phil, Sturridge, Mane and Firmino into the team in these kind of games, I`m pretty sure we can be just as good in a slightly different shape to 433.

Only issue I see there, mate, is players getting in each other's way. With little space to operate in, I think, we'll need quick, one-touch passing more than great movement. That's not really Coutinho's game if he playing on the left. He can do it, but he doesn't do it naturally the same way Wijnadum does or Lallana does near the box. Honestly, I might drop Coutinho for the bus and keep the three-man midfield. Love Phil, but I don't think he has ever learned the patience to play against the bus. A three-man midfield would also allow us more bodies running into the box to pick up any second balls. I think Lallana and Gini are just about perfect for doing that.

Watching Arsenal this weekend, that's pretty much what they did. Quick, one touch passes side-side, cut-backs from the wing, and midfielders collecting second balls. It's super formulaic and they do it over and over again until the score.     

[Chalky Boots]

Just as a side rant, for our supposed fabled 'pass and move, the Liverpool groove' fans, they sure do take a lot of time 'noticing' the value of Gini.

Took three seasons for anyone to appreciate Allen's work. For all the lip service our fans get paid about being knowledgeable we're very good at turning a blind eye to what a player contributes - especially when that player isn't the player the fan base resident scouts had concluded as  'the one'.

As for what do we start. I'd stick to the same three & same attack as the Leicester game. Coutinho's ball carrying ability isn't going to be any use if Hull sit across the box as a deep unit. All it does is slow the game down and allows whatever players they have to set in position.

[jepovic]

Took three seasons for anyone to appreciate Allen's work. For all the lip service our fans get paid about being knowledgeable we're very good at turning a blind eye to what a player contributes - especially when that player isn't the player the fan base resident scouts had concluded as  'the one'.

As for what do we start. I'd stick to the same three & same attack as the Leicester game. Coutinho's ball carrying ability isn't going to be any use if Hull sit across the box as a deep unit. All it does is slow the game down and allows whatever players they have to set in position.

Allen springs to my mind too, very neat player, but his problem was a lack of end product. Just too few goals and assists for a midfielder, IMO.

Against low defenses we need runs into the box, and we need good shooting. Henderson exploited the space in front of the back four that you get from a low defense, but he doesn't do that very often. All three of our current midfielders can provide a lot of runs into the box. This is what Chelsea was lacking against us, BTW. Matic made one run, created one goal.

Another concern is how the midfield plays itself out of pressure. Last season our midfield often went hiding, handing over all responsibility to the CBs. I liked how Coutinho dropped deep against Chelsea, essentially swapping places with Gini or Lallana, and using his amazing dribbling to get the ball up the pitch. More, please.

[SlowRap]

Arsenal (historically)  have been very good at the flat track bully thing. How do they approach the park-the-bus games? Possibly they never face it the same way we do as they're often considered to have a soft underbelly.

One touch football around the opposition box is how Arsenal do it.

[Dowling10]

Hopefully he doesn't read the same rag as Barnes.

No need for that. Was an awkward situation for Barnes presenting a TV show, part of that TV show goes through the sports sections of all the usual newspapers.

[Haggis36]

Only issue I see there, mate, is players getting in each other's way. With little space to operate in, I think, we'll need quick, one-touch passing more than great movement. That's not really Coutinho's game if he playing on the left. He can do it, but he doesn't do it naturally the same way Wijnadum does or Lallana does near the box. Honestly, I might drop Coutinho for the bus and keep the three-man midfield. Love Phil, but I don't think he has ever learned the patience to play against the bus. A three-man midfield would also allow us more bodies running into the box to pick up any second balls. I think Lallana and Gini are just about perfect for doing that.

Watching Arsenal this weekend, that's pretty much what they did. Quick, one touch passes side-side, cut-backs from the wing, and midfielders collecting second balls. It's super formulaic and they do it over and over again until the score.   

Totally agree with this. I think changing everything up and trying to force all of our attacking players into the team is actively the wrong move, and we've seen in the past that even against "weaker" teams we've often come a cropper trying to do just that. There's no reason we can't bring additional attacking players on as the game goes on, but I agree that the best move is to stick with what we've been building all season and a system that has shown to be incredibly promising for us.

Also agree on Coutinho - it's a tough one, because some of the time in these sorts of park the bus games he'll pop up with an absolute screamer when all else is failing, but other types he'll shoot on sight, hold on to the ball for far too long and the team is unable to build any kind of sustained pressure. You don't really know which version you're going to get, but generally it's the latter, while the former Coutinho tends to show up against the bigger boys.

One of the biggest features of our attacking play this season is that it's been noticeably quicker than it has in ages - clever, quick, one-touch play with excellent movement pulling players out of position. That is the way to break down stubborn teams. The midfield of Gini, Lallana and Henderson has so far shown themselves incredibly suited to that. Just because they have been doing their fair share of defensive work in recent weeks, doesn't mean they're not all very capable attacking players in their own right, but the balance is key. We lose some of that by cramming Mane, Coutinho, Firmino and Sturridge in the same team, in my opinion.

[N0rnIr0nRed]

I'll be honest here. Gini's work is still passing me by a bit. I'm not really picking up on the good or bad things he does.

MOTD did a nice little feature on him which gave a good overview of his role. Dunno what it is but I don't notice him that much during the games.

[PaulF]

One touch football around the opposition box is how Arsenal do it.

Well, if that's the blueprint, we've got the players to implement it.

[paulrazor]

chelsea was a great performance by him

added a lot of physicality to the midfield i thought

[Funky_Gibbons]

Well, if that's the blueprint, we've got the players to implement it.

One of the things I noticed in our recent games is how quick we're moving the ball, it's all one or two touches then onto the next player, keeping the all moving and playing at a high tempo.

Hoping for more of the same at the weekend.

[OOS]

One touch football around the opposition box is how Arsenal do it.

But we have the finishers in the squad.

One thing I've noticed, when you watch the elite teams box a team in, they push up the field, regain possession quickly and recycle the ball well with confidence and penetration. It's like they bully a team into defeat. We've played basketball football in recent years, up and down, but not this way before. There is a more intelligent way we are playing now, and thanks to pace and trickery we can beat a team in different ways. We can box a team in, pass the ball around without it being a hot potato and losing it. We've got the movement and quick feet/ minds now to split a defence.

Mostly that is down to Rodgers bringing more pace and skill into the squad and Klopp continuing it. During my childhood and teenage years, we've only had one player who could probably beat a man with skill and we always moaned that we had too many grafters, but it's been a joy to watch Liverpool over the last couple of years because we have been fun and scoring fuck load of goals. We can't defend, but hopefully that will come in time. 

[NaivetyinBlack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ49OpIoibM

Such a quick player. By that I mean quick in the decisions as well as his feet. That whole second half montage is him diffusing one tricky situation after another. Great game.

[McMahon]

Yes i agree great speed of thought always picks his man out, a lot of his hard work often goes unnoticed.

[Mr Mingebag Squid]

I'll be honest here. Gini's work is still passing me by a bit. I'm not really picking up on the good or bad things he does.

MOTD did a nice little feature on him which gave a good overview of his role. Dunno what it is but I don't notice him that much during the games.

That's the beauty of him, he's doing a lot of the unnoticed work that needs doing and allowing the flair players to get on being all flairy

I think once he's settled more and the team is more free flowing, I think we'll be seeing more of him in an attacking sense, especially against teams at home.

[MOZ]

Was reading a Spanish article about Klopp's tactics the other day. They had this little snippet about Wijnaldum and how he anticipates the game.



"After a long spell of possession we see how Wijnaldum detects the space and attacks before the ball has even reached the feet of Coutinho, who sends the ball behind the defense to create Adam Lallana's goal."

The article then goes on to say:

"Mané and Wijnaldum, seem born to play not just football but Klopp's football: they understand that attacking and defending are continued actions and the beat does not drop when passing from one to the other."

[Original]

Didn't realise how well he played until watching that video, very neat and tidy, always making the right decisions.

[AaronSingh25]

It's the first time in over a season (having seen a lot of him at Newcastle) where he has shown some balls - demanded the ball, put his foot in, tackles, forward runs, discipline, and looked a player. Hope it continues.

[NaivetyinBlack]

That video also shows exactly what some of us were saying against arguments here that we need a specialized DM. We don't. Its all about mobility, interceptions, tackling in zones and pressing now. A Mascherano ilk would not thrive in this setup. Only stifle it.

[lamonti]

He's all about the third man runs. I hope he's good at dinks and rounding the keeper because he'll get the chances. His runs from deep make the passes easy.

[owens_2k]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ49OpIoibM

Such a quick player. By that I mean quick in the decisions as well as his feet. That whole second half montage is him diffusing one tricky situation after another. Great game.

I love 1:38 of that video where he takes the ball without breaking his stride.

[exiledinyorkshire]

Took three seasons for anyone to appreciate Allen's work. For all the lip service our fans get paid about being knowledgeable we're very good at turning a blind eye to what a player contributes - especially when that player isn't the player the fan base resident scouts had concluded as  'the one'.

As for what do we start. I'd stick to the same three & same attack as the Leicester game. Coutinho's ball carrying ability isn't going to be any use if Hull sit across the box as a deep unit. All it does is slow the game down and allows whatever players they have to set in position.

Regards Allen,I would agree to an extent. However, he is no longer here. And ultimately that is because he just lacked a tiny bit of quality. I think that many saw it early, I for one always hoped Allen would step up. But he was never integral to a side that was challenging for the league. Wish we still had him, but I don't think its fair to suggest that people couldn't see how good he was. Unfortunately he wasn't good enough in the end.

I think the combinations between our front players will develop ways of opening up even the most bussy of parked busses if we get our best players on the park together and give them time. Would be tempted to leave out a Striker for this one myself.

[exiledinyorkshire]

oh and the Wijnaldum bit of my point was that perhaps and hopefully he will b all that Allen was and have that tiny bit more.

For me, he does appear to be a better player than allen.

[Chalky Boots]

Regards Allen,I would agree to an extent. However, he is no longer here. And ultimately that is because he just lacked a tiny bit of quality. I think that many saw it early, I for one always hoped Allen would step up. But he was never integral to a side that was challenging for the league. Wish we still had him, but I don't think its fair to suggest that people couldn't see how good he was. Unfortunately he wasn't good enough in the end.

I think the combinations between our front players will develop ways of opening up even the most bussy of parked busses if we get our best players on the park together and give them time. Would be tempted to leave out a Striker for this one myself.

I wouldn't say he was let go necessarily because of quality (although could argue that Lallana is doing his role but better at the moment) but more due to his lack of size. I think he was pushing 5'6 at best and he wasn't a little squat man like Maradona to compensate for being small.

If you look at the midfield now it's either big units like Grujic, Can, Henderson, Stewart or slightly smaller players who are still very physical in Lallana and Wijnaldum especially. If Allen was bigger he might still be here but then again if my old man had a pair of wheels he'd be a bicycle.

[IgorBobbins]

Hmmm...really not very convinced by him still, I have to admit.  His anticipation & positioning may be good, but I've been really disappointed by his touch and passing (as someone said on here recently, it's like his foot is a 20p piece - his passes seems to go on odd directions).  Sort of reminds me of Kuyt in that respect - hard working & industrious but technically limited. Perhaps he can improve that aspect of his game, but for 25m I expect someone who has better technique already.

[thisyearisouryear]

Hmmm...really not very convinced by him still, I have to admit.  His anticipation & positioning may be good, but I've been really disappointed by his touch and passing (as someone said on here recently, it's like his foot is a 20p piece - his passes seems to go on odd directions).  Sort of reminds me of Kuyt in that respect - hard working & industrious but technically limited. Perhaps he can improve that aspect of his game, but for 25m I expect someone who has better technique already.

I don't think he is technically limited. Just getting used to the new position. He will come good over the season with his runs into the box.

[IgorBobbins]

I don't think he is technically limited. Just getting used to the new position. He will come good over the season with his runs into the box.

How does a player's position on the pitch have any relevance to their natural technical ability, though?

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Hmmm...really not very convinced by him still, I have to admit.  His anticipation & positioning may be good, but I've been really disappointed by his touch and passing (as someone said on here recently, it's like his foot is a 20p piece - his passes seems to go on odd directions).  Sort of reminds me of Kuyt in that respect - hard working & industrious but technically limited. Perhaps he can improve that aspect of his game, but for 25m I expect someone who has better technique already.

I was very sceptical about this signing but I think you're being harsh. I agree his passing looks a bit strange at times - I think it's because he seems to use his laces and outside of his foot more than his instep, making the ball bobble a tad - but his touch has looked absolutely fine to me. I've been very impressed by how well he can hold into the ball with a combination of technique and strength.

Would love to see him get a goal tomorrow, would do wonders for him I think.

[Chalky Boots]

How does a player's position on the pitch have any relevance to their natural technical ability, though?

Because there are different areas of the pitch where you need to pick up the ball and different pictures you need to see to truly showcase your technical ability. Technical ability isn't = dribbling though. There's more to it and some players, same with Firmino, take a few games to get their feet going. Haven't seen anything to suggest he's technically limited now that he's up to speed; he did look it during pre-season up until the Tottenham game.

[MOZ]

How does a player's position on the pitch have any relevance to their natural technical ability, though?

It doesn't, but it can make a big difference to the type of pass they have to make, as can the system or style of play.

Players that are used to pausing the the game and slowing down play between transitions will be more used to taking touches and then passing to feet. Or picking out long cross field passes. They will generally have more time and space before reaching the final third.

Players in a Klopp system will have to make more rapid first time passes, recieve and pass the ball at pace, pass balls into gaps for players to run onto, rather than to feet, and make more passes in tight spaces. There will also be more direct forward passes and through balls, all at a high tempo.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

That video also shows exactly what some of us were saying against arguments here that we need a specialized DM. We don't. Its all about mobility, interceptions, tackling in zones and pressing now. A Mascherano ilk would not thrive in this setup. Only stifle it.

It's a difficult one - I half agree and half don't. I'd still have the 08/09 version of Mascherano in the current team. But that is more because he was an exceptional player (who was far better on the ball than he is ever given credit for) than because I think we need a specialized DM. I don't think we need that but what I do think we still lack is a midfielder of his quality with 'natural' defensive instincts. I don't think it is possible to play like we did at Chelsea every week - there are going to be games where we don't really turn up (like Burnley this season, the second half vs Sevilla, and a fair few games going back to Rodgers) or where the opposition is of a similar quality and does turn up (Sevilla again). When that happens you need a Plan B to weather the storm. At the moment we have a team that looks wonderful on the front foot but shaky on the back foot. The performance last week after Chelsea scored was encouraging in terms of coping with pressure but needs to become the habit rather than the exception.

Where I agree with you is that we don't need to be rushing to set a role aside for a 'specialist DM' at the expense of better players. If the present day equivalent of Masch was available and affordable then I think they would improve the team. As it is those players are pretty thin on the ground and I think the current set of central midfielders are more than capable of achieving our goals short term.

[MNAA]

Was reading a Spanish article about Klopp's tactics the other day. They had this little snippet about Wijnaldum and how he anticipates the game.

"After a long spell of possession we see how Wijnaldum detects the space and attacks before the ball has even reached the feet of Coutinho, who sends the ball behind the defense to create Adam Lallana's goal."

The article then goes on to say:

"Mané and Wijnaldum, seem born to play not just football but Klopp's football: they understand that attacking and defending are continued actions and the beat does not drop when passing from one to the other."

Do you have the link to the article? In English or Spanish?

[the_red_pill]

One of the things I noticed in our recent games is how quick we're moving the ball, it's all one or two touches then onto the next player, keeping the all moving and playing at a high tempo.

Hoping for more of the same at the weekend.

One touch football around the opposition box is how Arsenal do it.

Well, if that's the blueprint, we've got the players to implement it.

There ya go mate:

Oh one last thing on this - I predict, with Wijnaldum in particular, we will be the masters of the 2 and 3 pass combinations. Wijnaldum is incredibly mobile. As is Dahoud (the other target for the position). Both have had comments about their huge levels of stamina. Henderson & Milner are too When Sturridge and Firmino play as a lone striker they tend to drift out of position a lot and come deep. Origi loves to drift into the channels and isolate one of the center halves.

Which means space opens up for runners. This is why Mané is such a huge signing for us. Neither Coutinho or Lallana´s games are built around making those runs into the box. Mané's is. We have seen a lot of that in the past from Henderson too. Wijnaldum will be doing lots of that I suspect.

This is why it is important to get the right players for the system. Pep Ljinders talked about this a little bit in his interview earlier in the summer. He didn´t really elaborate on this too much but I suspect the "thing" Klopp wanted to add was runners into the box. Coutinho doesn´t. Lallana can but it´s not his natural game. In Mané and Wijnaldum we have added two people who will look to fill the void that our center forward leaves. Also we should never look so isolated in attack as we did in Basel next season now either.

[RogerTheRed]

I was not that impressed until I saw a live match (against Leicester). In the first half I thought he was one of our most effective players.

[MOZ]

Do you have the link to the article? In English or Spanish?

Here you go, it is in Spanish:

http://www.martiperarnau.com/magazine/articulos-de-futbol/liverpool-domar-la-premier-hasta-el-ultimo-dia/

[NaivetyinBlack]

Another solid game. So consistent.

Should have scored though.

[Giono]

He does everything so understated. We won't notice that he has scored.


Seriously, he got a few chances today. His confidence will come and so will his goals.