Topic: Brazilian Porn Review Topic (Warning: may contain Wijnaldum)

[Yorkykopite]

this is the thing for me - if he can do this regularly he's got a shot at the first team next season.
i hope this version of him - that gets on the ball and is actually productive with it - is here to stay

I don't see why it shouldn't be. That version has been with us two years now. He obviously scored a lot more last year, but his general productivity remains high. So, relax - and enjoy it.

[BabuYagu]

Someone asked a while back for gifs of some of the Wijnaldum moments against Everton where he was spinning out of pressure. Sorry it took so long to get these for whoever it was. Mind on other things. I know there were others but I just wanted to grab quickly the few I made a note of.





Plus this little clip of him playing on the half turn to open up the pitch and get a better picture of what is in front of him rather than receive the ball square which we see a lot of players do. Just before this he pulls out to the side instead of being ahead of Van Dijk so as to allow him to angle to do this.

[Yorkykopite]

Thanks for posting those Babu.

I’ll feel a whole lot better if he starts tomorrow. Preferably with Milner and Chamberlain alongside him in midfield. 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Thanks for posting those Babu.

I’ll feel a whole lot better if he starts tomorrow. Preferably with Milner and Chamberlain alongside him in midfield.

I can't see Klopp leaving Hendo out.

[classycarra]

What I loved most at the time of that 42nd minute one is that not only does he see the challenge come and wisely decide he's able to use his strength to keep the ball, he also decides 'nope, I'm not going to let you foul me cynically either - I'd rather move into that space'

[JackWard33]

I don't see why it shouldn't be. That version has been with us two years now. He obviously scored a lot more last year, but his general productivity remains high. So, relax - and enjoy it.

What productivity?! That version hasn’t remotely been with us two years sorry - it’s only possible to think that if you didn’t watch a game in the first two thirds of the season.
He’s put in a couple of better performances recently and - like i said - I hope it continues.
But his numbers (top line and underlying) are horrible this year and, especially in the first half he put in some of the more cowardly ineffective displays I’ve seen from a first choice midifleder for this club. Let’s hope he can keep playing better in our remaining games as we need everyone at their best

[duvva 💅]

I can't see Klopp leaving Hendo out.

Agree, I think it’s Henderson, Ox plus Milner or Wijnaldum

[CanuckYNWA]

Agree, I think it’s Henderson, Ox plus Milner or Wijnaldum

Henderson has been managed pretty carefully this season and rarely played back to back games in short periods of time. Think it will be Gini, Ox and Milner personally.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Henderson has been managed pretty carefully this season and rarely played back to back games in short periods of time. Think it will be Gini, Ox and Milner personally.

He'll play tomorrow you can bet your house on it.

[BabuYagu]

He'll play tomorrow you can bet your house on it.

They are going to flood the midfield tomorrow - starting all four of De Rossi, Strootman, Nainggolan & Pellegrini.
I noticed this against SPAL at the weekend with them playing a clear 2-3-4-1 shape. 2 being the center backs, 3 being DM & wing backs, 4 being 2 CM's and 2 AM's in a box in front of their DM and then a lone striker. De Rossi was rested completely and the other 3 came off when ahead and comfortable.


My concern with Milner would be his tendency to drift wide which might leave us light in the middle against that formation. Given that the midfield will be packed, we will be under pressure and they will hard to play through, which 3 names would suit such a game? Gini & Ox are the obvious two for me who are both excellent in protecting the ball. I would then probably go with Hendo for the 3rd spot due to what I mentioned above with Milner.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

They are going to flood the midfield tomorrow - starting all four of De Rossi, Strootman, Nainggolan & Pellegrini.
I noticed this against SPAL at the weekend with them playing a clear 2-3-4-1 shape. 2 being the center backs, 3 being DM & wing backs, 4 being 2 CM's and 2 AM's in a box in front of their DM and then a lone striker. De Rossi was rested completely and the other 3 came off when ahead and comfortable.


My concern with Milner would be his tendency to drift wide which might leave us light in the middle against that formation. Given that the midfield will be packed, we will be under pressure and they will hard to play through, which 3 names would suit such a game? Gini & Ox are the obvious two for me who are both excellent in protecting the ball. I would then probably go with Hendo for the 3rd spot due to what I mentioned above with Milner.

I would prefer that as well, as it suits us and balances us well however I was sceptical about Milner before we played City so what do i know but the midfield will be key and we can't afford to start the same way we did against City. They completely outnumbered us in midfield, so Mane and Salah and Bobby will have to put in a shift defensively as well and drop back a bit

[BabuYagu]

I would prefer that as well, as it suits us and balances us well however I was sceptical about Milner before we played City so what do i know but the midfield will be key and we can't afford to start the same way we did against City. They completely outnumbered us in midfield, so Mane and Salah and Bobby will have to put in a shift defensively as well and drop back a bit

Salah will be left high to fuck them I think. Especially if they keep the old & slow partnership of Kolarov and Fazio on the left side of their defence. Neither was ever ideally built to deal with small, nimble players and now in their 30's, carrying around their 6ft+, 13+ stone around with them against Salah will ruin them. On the other side Bruno Peres and Manolas are both better against quick players than on the other side.

[afc tukrish]

Salah will be left high to fuck them I think. Especially if they keep the old & slow partnership of Kolarov and Fazio on the left side of their defence. Neither was ever ideally built to deal with small, nimble players and now in their 30's, carrying around their 6ft+, 13+ stone around with them against Salah will ruin them. On the other side Bruno Peres and Manolas are both better against quick players than on the other side.

Do they have anyone good against daft as a brush fuckers with great teeth?

Sorted...

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Salah will be left high to fuck them I think. Especially if they keep the old & slow partnership of Kolarov and Fazio on the left side of their defence. Neither was ever ideally built to deal with small, nimble players and now in their 30's, carrying around their 6ft+, 13+ stone around with them against Salah will ruin them. On the other side Bruno Peres and Manolas are both better against quick players than on the other side.

Kolarov was never known for his defensive abilities but he has a good cross on him and shot, but the question will be for them if they can keep Mane,Bobby and Salah quiet all at once. They probably will go towards the ''formula 1 stuck in london traffic'' route ala Swansea.

[jckliew]

Agree, I think it’s Henderson, Ox plus Milner or Wijnaldum

Yeah....it's a home game. Gini will be sitting down.

[newterp]

Yeah....it's a home game. Gini will be sitting down.

I thought the common perception was he performs way better at home.

[Wilmo]

I can't see Klopp leaving Hendo out.

Agreed. Would be daft to leave out our best midfielder.

Would definitely want to see Gini and Milner both on the pitch too. These headaches will get even worse with Keita.

Klopp could potentially start Ox on the left playing the Mane role of late, tucking inside and driving play through the centre, providing width when needed. Mane played most (all?) of the game on the weekend and could be brought on on 60 to tear through them - it'll have been a real battle before then and he could profit from tired opposition.

On Gini specifically, he has possibly the best technique on the ball in the squad. I'm not sure he realises quite how talented he is, still think he has another level or two to reach yet before he's in his peak.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Agreed. Would be daft to leave out our best midfielder.

Would definitely want to see Gini and Milner both on the pitch too. These headaches will get even worse with Keita.

Klopp could potentially start Ox on the left playing the Mane role of late, tucking inside and driving play through the centre, providing width when needed. Mane played most (all?) of the game on the weekend and could be brought on on 60 to tear through them - it'll have been a real battle before then and he could profit from tired opposition.

On Gini specifically, he has possibly the best technique on the ball in the squad. I'm not sure he realises quite how talented he is, still think he has another level or two to reach yet before he's in his peak.

Henderson isn't our best midfielder and Oxlade isn't starting tonight on the left-wing.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

If we start Gini and Hendo, is that bad?

[Wilmo]

Henderson isn't our best midfielder and Oxlade isn't starting tonight on the left-wing.

Preface everything you read on a forum with 'In my opinion' and life will be easier for you.

[Legoland]

Henderson isn't our best midfielder and Oxlade isn't starting tonight on the left-wing.

Sigh, another example of opinion stated as fact.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Preface everything you read on a forum with 'In my opinion' and life will be easier for you.

Oh I do. I'm disagreeing with it. 

Sigh, another example of opinion stated as fact.

You mean like the post I quoted saying: "Would be daft to leave out our best midfielder"?

I'd start Hendo too by the way - but there's absolutely no chance we vacate Oxlade's driving runs and energy from central midfield just so we can get all of Hendo, Gini and Milner on the pitch. We saw another example on Saturday how that midfield just doesn't work.

[RedForeverTT]

Unfortunately, it looks like Gini would be left out.

Henderson, Milner and Ox played themselves into this match. They were truly effective against Man City stifling their attack whilst Ox was up there causing damage with this turn of pace.

Gini was at his best when he had Coutinho next to him where he wins the ball back and give it to Coutinho to start an attack. Maybe he needs a new partner in Keita but whatever the reason, he must transition and learn a new role because at the moment he isn't very effective.

[BabuYagu]

I thought the common perception was he performs way better at home.

It was, despite plenty of examples to make the idea he bottled it away stupid.

Unfortunately since then he was arguably one of our best players against Everton, WBA & City, all away from home, which makes even stating that idea even more stupid. So if they keep a low profile on that point for a while until it fades from memory, hopefully the fact he hasn't scored away from home in the premier league will be accepted as irrefutable evidence that he bottles it away from home once again. This is a guy who scored against Brazil, in Brasilia, during the world cup in a very hostile environment that was seeing rioting throughout the tournament here. Who scored away in derby matches in Holland regularly. Who was frequently man of the match in the big games last season and arguably a large part of the reason we dominated that top 6 mini league as a result.

[Felch Aid]

Can see him coming on to give us fresh legs from 55/60 mins onward and preferably to bolster midfield.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I thought the common perception was he performs way better at home.

It was, despite plenty of examples to make the idea he bottled it away stupid.

Unfortunately since then he was arguably one of our best players against Everton, WBA & City, all away from home, which makes even stating that idea even more stupid. So if they keep a low profile on that point for a while until it fades from memory, hopefully the fact he hasn't scored away from home in the premier league will be accepted as irrefutable evidence that he bottles it away from home once again. This is a guy who scored against Brazil, in Brasilia, during the world cup in a very hostile environment that was seeing rioting throughout the tournament here. Who scored away in derby matches in Holland regularly. Who was frequently man of the match in the big games last season and arguably a large part of the reason we dominated that top 6 mini league as a result.

Gini's contrast in performances have very little to do with being home/away. The away performance thing is indeed a myth borne out from his lack of goals away from home.

The contrast in his performances stem from the opposition's gameplan. As such I'd have him on the bench tonight where the onus is on us to attack a (likely) deep defence, but probably in the starting line-up next week when a bit more solidity and discipline will be required (depending on the result tonight to an extent).

All of this, of course, is why I and others can't agree that Wijnaldum is a 'great' player. No player's performances should hinge so heavily on how the opposition perform/set-up. A top player should be able to impose their will and class on any (note: not every!) game of football.

He is a very useful player to have around though.

[BabuYagu]

Unfortunately, it looks like Gini would be left out.

Henderson, Milner and Ox played themselves into this match. They were truly effective against Man City stifling their attack whilst Ox was up there causing damage with this turn of pace.

Gini was at his best when he had Coutinho next to him where he wins the ball back and give it to Coutinho to start an attack. Maybe he needs a new partner in Keita but whatever the reason, he must transition and learn a new role because at the moment he isn't very effective.

In the away leg Gini had the most touches of our midfielders and was the only one who actually consistently find a team mate with his passing. Gini's fail rate - by which I mean the amount of times an attack of ours ends due to his action, or an opponent gets by him - is ridiculously low. Which is why he is hugely important in big games. He rarely misplaces a pass, or takes a speculative shot, or loses the ball when in possession - things Can, Milner and Henderson have issues with in 2/3 categories. When having the ball is vitally important - pick Gini.

Which is why he is ideal in that water carrier role in our side. On the ball his job is simply to connect the back 5 to the creative players in front of him - be composed & patient. Off the ball his job is to protect our attacks, delay counter attacks and be extremely disciplined and tactically astute. Actions that don't really shine from a stats point of view, but there is a reason why when we looked at the results with and without him we found this.

20 games started
2.30 points per game with Gini starting to 1.55 ppg without.
2.60 goals for per game with Gini starting to 1.91 gpg for without.
0.90 goals against per game with Gini starting to 1.45 gpg against without.

[Wilmo]

Oh I do. I'm disagreeing with it. 

You mean like the post I quoted saying: "Would be daft to leave out our best midfielder"?

I'd start Hendo too by the way - but there's absolutely no chance we vacate Oxlade's driving runs and energy from central midfield just so we can get all of Hendo, Gini and Milner on the pitch. We saw another example on Saturday how that midfield just doesn't work.

Might have jumped the gun there, I read your comment as being derisory and overly-assertive, though it wouldn't be the first time I've misread intentions over the internet.

You're probably right about Ox, but no harm in speculating is there?

You've got one of the best usernames I've seen around here by the way, love it.

[newterp]

Gini or Milner - I think we are ok with either at this point.

The key will be Henderson playing a disciplined and intelligent game.

[jckliew]

I thought the common perception was he performs way better at home.

He does lend enough to attacking play. Ox is abetter option when we require goals.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

For me Hendo and Chambo have to start.

[BabuYagu]

He does lend enough to attacking play. Ox is abetter option when we require goals.

It is all about different tasks.
Ox = penetration
Gini = link play / defensive stability

You need 4 things from a functioning midfield. Protect Defence / Link Play / Create / Support Attack. Gini does all those things at a good level depending on what role you give him. Ox, you definitely want focused on those latter two things and I would argue he is the only midfielder we have fit who offers those things at a high enough level. So you want him in that 8/10 hybrid role.

In terms of linking play - you want someone who protects the ball well, can escape pressure and can complete forward passes in the opposition half.

Code: [Select]

Name Dribble Success Dribbles/90 Opp Half Pass Suc
Wijnaldum 78,85% 1,73 85,44%
Can 75,00% 1,03 81,08%
Milner 75,00% 0,29 78,16%
Chamberlain 74,07% 2,96 73,75%
Henderson 57,14% 0,38 77,17%

So if your midfield will be under pressure and you want a player to be able to receive, turn and play the ball forward to the more creative players - a deep midfield of Milner & Henderson is a problem. Neither is comfortable escaping pressure. Which results in teams being able to detach your front 4 and back 6 if they are well drilled in pressing - as we saw in the final against Sevilla when Milner and Can couldn't receive, turn and find any of Lallana, Firmino, Coutinho or Sturridge.

[cipher]

Thought Gini had a great game when he came in for Ox today.   Playing more forward, with Henderson and Miller behind him, he seemed to be always looking to move the ball forward and got himself into some great positions and helped support our attack. 

It's bad news that ox is injured, and may miss our remaining games this year, but I'm hoping that Gini can continue playing like he has recently.  We're going to need him at his best next week against Roma and then again on the 26th!

[johnj147]

thought he was boss tonight 

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Was great to see him making more forward runs again. His touch was bang on it including a few lovely Maradona turns. Shame he couldn't convert that late chance.

[stoopid yank]

Played his ass off when brought on. Hope he can do it again in Rome.

[Gutzon Borglum]

This lad played the #6 against City and bossed it, then comes on today to play as an attacking midfielder and bosses it again.

What a footballer Gini Wijnaldum is.

[Dim Glas]

This lad played the #6 against City and bossed it, then comes on today to play as an attacking midfielder and bosses it again.

What a footballer Gini Wijnaldum is.

exactly.

I'll take on any fucker who dares not appreciate our Gini    He's great for this team. Understated, and vital.

[Kopenhagen]

Thought he was excellent tonight - shielded the ball really well and linked play with the attack.

[Desert Red Fox]

Truly excellent tonight! Hopefully he can replicate his performance next week - we'll need it!