Topic: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell

[CraigDS]

He's becoming a bit part player in the same way Allen became in his last season here. He's only being utilised when we don't need to change games. That would indicate Klopp is indifferent to him staying.

He forced his way to being a starter until his injury, it's not like he's been made a bit part player by Klopp on form.

I imagine Klopp would be happy for him to be back up, whilst also fighting for his first team spot again. It's not like he's a million miles behind Robertson if he can regain his pre-injury form again. So I'd not be surprised to see him being offered a new deal.

If Moreno wants that or wants to go back to Spain and try his luck being first choice somewhere is another thing though.

[Purple Red]

Also what would be the motivation to him to stay? He could go to Spain, be first choice at a Champions League qualifying club like Sevilla, maybe get back into the Spanish national team. Or stay to play understudy to Robertson.

Indeed. He will have offers from Spain that will be more attractive than sitting on the bench and only being thrown on when games are safe.

[Redcap]

He forced his way to being a starter until his injury, it's not like he's been made a bit part player by Klopp on form.

I imagine Klopp would be happy for him to be back up, whilst also fighting for his first team spot again. It's not like he's a million miles behind Robertson if he can regain his pre-injury form again. So I'd not be surprised to see him being offered a new deal.

If Moreno wants that or wants to go back to Spain and try his luck being first choice somewhere is another thing though.

Agreed. I think our best option is to keep him for next season and see who performs better between him and Robertson. The difference, as you say, is not substantial.

If he wants to go, I think we'd be short at LB again with a single injury. So unless we're bringing in Sessegnon or something, I wouldn't let Moreno go.

[Gutzon Borglum]

I thought he was absolutely brilliant until his injury, and as great as Robertson has been, I still see Moreno as possessing the ability to be a superior option thanks to his greater pace and all round technical ability.

[CraigDS]

I thought he was absolutely brilliant until his injury, and as great as Robertson has been, I still see Moreno as possessing the ability to be a superior option thanks to his greater pace and all round technical ability.

I think I agree with this, but do think Robertson has more than earned his current place in the side and should keep it until Moreno can force his way in, or not if Robertson continues to perform.

If he wants to go, I think we'd be short at LB again with a single injury. So unless we're bringing in Sessegnon or something, I wouldn't let Moreno go.

We'd definitely be short if we let him go, which is why I don't think we will as we'll likely be prioritising other positions this summer.

New contract, protect his value, let them both slug it out for first choice and if in a year or two one of them isn't happy being second choice then move them on.

[nico 8]

I think I agree with this, but do think Robertson has more than earned his current place in the side and should keep it until Moreno can force his way in, or not if Robertson continues to perform.

We'd definitely be short if we let him go, which is why I don't think we will as we'll likely be prioritising other positions this summer.

New contract, protect his value, let them both slug it out for first choice and if in a year or two one of them isn't happy being second choice then move them on.

The are enough games to keep both happy. Up to the player to prove that he is the better in form player. Robertson keeps it for now. Up to Moreno to displace him just as Robertson had to wait (even though part of our fanbase were calling for him to introduced without valid reason).
Our past success has been built on competition for places.

[Funky_Gibbons]

I thought he was absolutely brilliant until his injury, and as great as Robertson has been, I still see Moreno as possessing the ability to be a superior option thanks to his greater pace and all round technical ability.

He was OK earlier in the season, nothing more. Robertson is in his first season here and already looks better at both ends of the pitch.

Moreno has been here four years and hasn't established himself as first choice left back, losing his place to the likes of Johnson, Gomez, Milner and now Robertson.

[redprodigal]

Although there has been an improvement with him this season the only way he is going to get back in the team now is if Robertson gets a serious injury and is out for a lengthy spell. I for one am very happy with that situation.

[Giono]

He was OK earlier in the season, nothing more. Robertson is in his first season here and already looks better at both ends of the pitch.

Moreno has been here four years and hasn't established himself as first choice left back, losing his place to the likes of Johnson, Gomez, Milner and now Robertson.

The period under Rodgers, when it came to defenders, is not a period to judge defenders by. Rodgers also had a dog house so large it had an elevator.

Moreno was a very young defender and a comittee signing. He wasn’t going to improve as a defender under Brendan and being a young foreign converted winger, that was especially a shame. He was also a committee signing that Rodgers didn’t want, so he was never going to be given the patience to settle and grow.

Under Klopp he was 1st choice 2 seasons ago, then Klopp opted to insert the experience of Milner in a position last season. Klopp even valued the experience of Iron Born despite his decline in the second half. He wanted him on the pitch regardless.

This season Moreno was back to first choice despite having the impressive Robertson chomping at the bit. Klopp didn’t change his mind about Moreno, instead he got injured and Robertson took his chance.

How many chances did Moreno have to develop a bad attitude over Rodgers’ tenure or stewing on the bench last season? And he didn’t. And when he was given a chance this season he took it...and earned a Spain call up too. You don’t get a Spain call-up after warming the bench for a season unless you’ve been far more than ‘OK’.


I get that people like Robertson. His rags to riches story. His Scottishness. He looks like a promising youth player (he’s about to turn 24). His all-action style.

But Robertson can be praised and valued without having to invent a narrative that Moreno was crap this season and that Robertson being on the bench for the first half this season was an oversight or injustice. Instead, Robertson is keeping a very talented player on the bench now, a player that earned a Spanish cap this season. Doesn’t that make Robertson’s rise even more remarkable?

If Robertson starts every match for the rest of the season he will have earned it. If he gets injured or has a form drop, and Moreno gets the nod, there will be no decline in the energy and penetration down the left. As a supporter of this club, I love that Albie and Andy give us that strength.
 

[Funky_Gibbons]

The period under Rodgers, when it came to defenders, is not a period to judge defenders by. Rodgers also had a dog house so large it had an elevator.

Moreno was a very young defender and a comittee signing. He wasn’t going to improve as a defender under Brendan and being a young foreign converted winger, that was especially a shame. He was also a committee signing that Rodgers didn’t want, so he was never going to be given the patience to settle and grow.

Why can’t we judge defenders under Rodgers? We conceded 1.23 goals per game under Rodgers on average and we’re on about 1.19 per game under Klopp so very similar records, but we can only judge defenders under Klopp for some reason.

Under Klopp he was 1st choice 2 seasons ago, then Klopp opted to insert the experience of Milner in a position last season. Klopp even valued the experience of Iron Born despite his decline in the second half. He wanted him on the pitch regardless.

This season Moreno was back to first choice despite having the impressive Robertson chomping at the bit. Klopp didn’t change his mind about Moreno, instead he got injured and Robertson took his chance.

How many chances did Moreno have to develop a bad attitude over Rodgers’ tenure or stewing on the bench last season? And he didn’t. And when he was given a chance this season he took it...and earned a Spain call up too. You don’t get a Spain call-up after warming the bench for a season unless you’ve been far more than ‘OK’.

In his first pre-season he made Milner his first choice left back because Moreno showed he couldn't be trusted the previous season.

When the likes of Luis Alberto and Deulofeu are getting called up to the Spanish national squad I think saying he did OK and nothing more is acceptable.

I get that people like Robertson. His rags to riches story. His Scottishness. He looks like a promising youth player (he’s about to turn 24). His all-action style.

Not sure where you’ve got any of that stuff from in my post.

But Robertson can be praised and valued without having to invent a narrative that Moreno was crap this season and that Robertson being on the bench for the first half this season was an oversight or injustice. Instead, Robertson is keeping a very talented player on the bench now, a player that earned a Spanish cap this season. Doesn’t that make Robertson’s rise even more remarkable?

If Robertson starts every match for the rest of the season he will have earned it. If he gets injured or has a form drop, and Moreno gets the nod, there will be no decline in the energy and penetration down the left. As a supporter of this club, I love that Albie and Andy give us that strength.

Never said he was having a crap season, seems you’re the one who invented that, not me.

[Djozer]

He was OK earlier in the season, nothing more. Robertson is in his first season here and already looks better at both ends of the pitch.

Moreno has been here four years and hasn't established himself as first choice left back, losing his place to the likes of Johnson, Gomez, Milner and now Robertson.

It's all subjective, but I actually thought Moreno was good this season. Not stunning or world class or whatever, but good. I've vaguely categorised them in my head as Moreno: better technically (first touch and passing), quicker and Robbo: better defensively (at least positionally) and a better crosser. I prefer Robertson - he just makes me feel more confident defensively - but the statistics from this season seem to suggest show there's very little in it. I realise that statistics are certainly not the be all and end all, but I think they're a little bit instructive.

Offensively they're almost identical in terms of passing, key passes and chances created. Defensively, I think Robertson shades it (but I'm no expert at interpreting the numbers) - he makes slightly more interceptions (though less than Moreno's 15/16 season) and has a better percentage of aerial duels won, although they both win about the same number of headers per game, apparently. Moreno wins more tackles, but also loses more (possibly a result of his poorer positioning and needing to make more challenges?), but I think his tackle win to loss ratio works our better.

Here's a Squawka comparison matrix of their league performances this season. I also included Robertson's season last year and Moreno's 15/16 season, as it was his most recent as first choice.

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2017/2018/andrew_robertson/819/819/14538/36/p|premier_league/2017/2018/alberto_moreno/819/819/4094/0/p|premier_league/2015/2016/alberto_moreno/819/165/4094/0/p|premier_league/2016/2017/andrew_robertson/641/641/14538/170/p#pass_completion/key_passes/avg_pass_length/chances_created/tackles_won/tackles_lost/aerial_duels_won/aerial_duels_won_%/interceptions/blocks/clearances#90

[Lofty Ambitions]

It was good to have Albie back, I do like him, yes I do 

[Giono]

Not tested very much against Porto. But in the final third he was one of our best attacking players.


I like that he only crossed two times all match.

[Giono]

If Gomes is out for a month...and Clyne is still not fit for City...


Could Klopp possibly play Robertson on the right and Moreno on the left against City?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

If Gomes is out for a month...and Clyne is still not fit for City...


Could Klopp possibly play Robertson on the right and Moreno on the left against City?

No. can't see that happening, because Trent is perfectly fine, and we're not playing 2 games in 24 hours, there's enough time in between matches for Trent to play. Also Clyne is in contention to play this weekend.

So either way that's not happening imo

[Giono]

No. can't see that happening, because Trent is perfectly fine, and we're not playing 2 games in 24 hours, there's enough time in between matches for Trent to play. Also Clyne is in contention to play this weekend.

So either way that's not happening imo

Don’t get me wrong, I like TAA. I’m just wondering as Man U was targetting TAA and he was pulled by Klopp early for Gini. He’ll be coming up against Sane...

Gomez started in the 4-3 win. TAA started in the 5-0 loss.

If Clyne is ready, that’ll be perfect. But that would be quite a match to come back into.

[Giono]

Moreno’s Rabona goal captured from practice.


https://youtu.be/x9x1Yd9NwuA

[BabuYagu]

Moreno’s Rabona goal captured from practice.


https://youtu.be/x9x1Yd9NwuA

That is ridiculous!

[Djozer]

That is ridiculous!

Stupid Moreno. Should have passed it, that's what an intelligent footballer would have done.

[jepovic]

Moreno’s Rabona goal captured from practice.


https://youtu.be/x9x1Yd9NwuA

Like 3 yards behind the line too. 

[Giono]

Much better performance this week compared to last weekend.

[newterp]

Agreed - he was putting in some good crosses too.

[jooneyisdagod]

He looked much faster against Stoke with a little bit more sharpness in his legs. He'll give Robbo some serious competition if he can keep improving and cutting out the defensive errors and improves his movement in the final third. Robbo plays it much simpler while Moreno attempts more complex things but he has everything technically and physically to be a top player. He misses the mental and tactical bits but one can hope he puts it together eventually.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

I think he's too unintelligent as a footballer. Robbo is far superior to him.

Moreno makes bonehead plays time and time again. Yesterday it was the back heel volley, when Gini (?) was behind him ready to shoot. He goes diving in needlessly time and again, misreads situations far to often to be counted on. And don't forget he's almost more one footed than  Riise. A moment of madness is never far away with him. I hope we get rid in the summer and get a young fella like Sessegnon in.

[lorenzo]

I think he's too unintelligent as a footballer. Robbo is far superior to him.

Moreno makes bonehead plays time and time again. Yesterday it was the back heel volley, when Gini (?) was behind him ready to shoot. He goes diving in needlessly time and again, misreads situations far to often to be counted on. And don't forget he's almost more one footed than  Riise. A moment of madness is never far away with him. I hope we get rid in the summer and get a young fella like Sessegnon in.

Go enjoy life more mate.

[redprodigal]

I think he's too unintelligent as a footballer. Robbo is far superior to him.

Moreno makes bonehead plays time and time again. Yesterday it was the back heel volley, when Gini (?) was behind him ready to shoot. He goes diving in needlessly time and again, misreads situations far to often to be counted on. And don't forget he's almost more one footed than  Riise. A moment of madness is never far away with him. I hope we get rid in the summer and get a young fella like Sessegnon in.

Can't argue with that.

[Redman78]

Maybe it's just me but I didn't think he had a bad game yesterday, considering he's been out for so long.

[BabuYagu]

I think he's too unintelligent as a footballer. Robbo is far superior to him.

Moreno makes bonehead plays time and time again. Yesterday it was the back heel volley, when Gini (?) was behind him ready to shoot. He goes diving in needlessly time and again, misreads situations far to often to be counted on. And don't forget he's almost more one footed than  Riise. A moment of madness is never far away with him. I hope we get rid in the summer and get a young fella like Sessegnon in.

Honestly, how many players do you think leave that backheel? It was instinctive.

Ignoring that moment, which is an awful example of game intelligence in isolation, how did you see the rest of his performance in terms of game intelligence? How he rotated into midfield when Milner drifted left. How he almost picked out Salah with a through ball early in the match. How he chose to attack the box whenever someone else was offering width on the left which resulted in the moment you highlighted and him likely having a tapin but for a handball.

[BabuYagu]

Can't argue with that.

Can't or won't?

Amazed anybody watched the game yesterday and think Moreno is the one to criticize after it. Aside from the Salah & TAA misses, he was involved in all the other most dangerous moments I can think of. He had no problems going forward and wasn't skinned at the other end. Gomez, on the other hand, had an absolute mare and actually did the thing Moreno is accused of - diving in and getting nowhere near the ball which almost cost us a goal.

There were few on the pitch yesterday that put in a better performance than him, if any. Both Klavan and VVD almost cost us a goal with lapses in concentration. Gomez put in by far the worst performance I have seen of him this season, and he has had a few shockers. The midfield without anybody to play between the lines looked awful. Henderson didn't look up for it likely due to injury and tiredness. Gini struggled to get into the game in the Lallana role. Was a bad game for many, but thought Albie did little wrong defensively and was a big threat several times in attack in a varied and unpredictable way too.

If you are in here to bash Moreno after that game, it is pure agenda. Allowed only if you have been in the Gomez, Klavan, Hendo, Gini, VVD, TAA, Salah, Clyne, Firmino & Ings threads to have a pop first.

[Giono]

I think he's too unintelligent as a footballer. Robbo is far superior to him.

Moreno makes bonehead plays time and time again. Yesterday it was the back heel volley, when Gini (?) was behind him ready to shoot. He goes diving in needlessly time and again, misreads situations far to often to be counted on. And don't forget he's almost more one footed than  Riise. A moment of madness is never far away with him. I hope we get rid in the summer and get a young fella like Sessegnon in.

Misreads the game? He was in the box how many times agsinst Stoke? Like for the near-goal handball? That backheel was because he was in that position. Not hugging the chalk line pumping in hopeful crosses into Stokes’ land of giants. And when he did choose to put balls in from wide they were damn good.

He is not uninteligent. However his instincts are that of a wingback, not a defender. He unfortunately spent years being not coached on defending by Rodgers on a team that collectively could not defend or defended desperately and deep when they did. Robbo’s instincts are different. He sometimes has the opportunity to play higher and create pressure, but choses to be more conservative. Or he crosses to nobody instinctively instead of other options. But those errors are not as glaring and won’t be talked about after a match.

If you get a nosebleed from Moreno’s version of an attacking wingback, how will you feel with young Sessegnon taking poor Andy’s place on the left while playing attacking ‘crazy’ football? Why would you wish that on yourself?

[TepidT2O]

Klopp was criticised for playing Albie last week.

This week?  You could see him gaining rhythm and confidence in his game.

Albie will never be a great player because he lacks concentration, but he does have great pace and is quite skilful and with pretty good touch.  He’s a player that (in an emergency) you could play on the left of the front three.... actually, I think he might offer more there than Ings....

So these last two games for him have been a good thing for the squad as a whole.

[lgvkarlos]

Not on Robertson" level, but still an excellent player and good no2.
If god forbid we have a problem with Mane I would rather play him in his position over playing ings up front.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Not on Robertson" level, but still an excellent player and good no2.
If god forbid we have a problem with Mane I would rather play him in his position over playing ings up front.

 

[Dench57]

If god forbid we have a problem with Mane I would rather play him in his position over playing ings up front.

[D🐶G]

Better yesterday than last week but nowhere near the level we need long term. He’ll be gone in the summer anyway.

[TepidT2O]

Better yesterday than last week but nowhere near the level we need long term. He’ll be gone in the summer anyway.

I’m not 100% sure he will be...  he’s made for Klopp football..... if he had a football brain he’d be perfect...

[lgvkarlos]

😁
I like Danny but not sure we've played that well when he's come on.
Moreno has the pace and the energy and showed yesterday he has the ability to cross.
Also when we've moved Bobby to the wing and put Danny in the middle it seems to throw the balance off.

[lgvkarlos]

I’m not 100% sure he will be...  he’s made for Klopp football..... if he had a football brain he’d be perfect...

Moreno's summer surgery

[Chakan]

I’m not 100% sure he will be...  he’s made for Klopp football..... if he had a football brain he’d be perfect...

What's he lacking? Just curious.

[Djimi Smicer34]

If he's happy to continue in his current role, there's no issue with him.

Barring the Sevilla game, he was much improved and performed well consistently when he got a run in back in the team earlier this season.  There's no reason he couldn't do so again if we required him to over an extended period.