Author Topic: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager  (Read 13070 times)

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #80 on: May 23, 2017, 09:54:08 pm »
Telegraph saying that he wants to retire and hence quitting.


The Guardian article is a bit more definitive in suggesting he's retiring; while the Telegraph suggests he's not actually planning on retiring and just wants a break, but would have to pay Palace if he takes another job

Quote
His decision, nevertheless, is a surprise. He is understood to want to spend time with his family. His wife, Lynne, has remained in the family home at Bolton while he has rented a flat. He will not formally retire from management although in a clear indication that his reasons are as stated, and he has walked away from receiving a big pay rise at Palace, where he would have tripled his salary had he stayed. He was contracted to the club until 2019 after agreeing an initial 2½-year deal last December.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2017, 10:14:19 pm »
Palace seem to have employed every mediocre British manager around, it's hard to see who else they can now hire except the (laughing while I type this) Moyssiah or Owl Face.
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Offline Caligula?

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2017, 10:16:18 pm »
I'm gonna miss the fat bastard scrapping it down at the bottom and surviving every time  :( He's definitely a character

Offline Alf

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #83 on: May 23, 2017, 10:21:58 pm »
It gets everybody's hopes up about Palace going down next season and they'll probably appoint somebody just as annoying probably at the 2nd attempt that keeps them in the Premier League.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2017, 10:28:52 pm »
They'll probably try and get Chris Coleman.


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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #85 on: May 23, 2017, 10:31:28 pm »
They'll probably try and get Chris Coleman.

Marco Silva perhaps?

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #86 on: May 23, 2017, 10:34:48 pm »
Marco Silva perhaps?

seems to be strong rumours he's going to Porto.

Maybe the Fulham boss - Jokanovic, Watford seem to be intersted in him to mind.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #87 on: May 23, 2017, 11:34:46 pm »
Has he fuck "retired." Give it eighteen months and a struggling Premiership club will lash a fat wad of cash in front of him and he'll be right in there again.
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #88 on: May 23, 2017, 11:43:48 pm »
To be fair maybe the events in the last 24hours have made his mind up on the future. Ok, he could come back in 18 months or so but at this time hes probably thinking of his family.

Offline MolbyLovesGravlax

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2017, 01:29:25 am »
I'll raise a pint of wine in celebration of one less negative manager to deal with next season...
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #90 on: May 24, 2017, 02:41:17 am »
Good riddance you fat C*unt

Offline BeautifulGame91

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2017, 04:32:31 am »
seems to be strong rumours he's going to Porto.

Maybe the Fulham boss - Jokanovic, Watford seem to be intersted in him to mind.
Watford aren't interested in Jokanovic acc. to Guardian.Afterall they only sacked him 2 season ago after winning promotion.So doubt he would go them anyway.
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Offline Bend It Like Aurelio

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2017, 04:42:58 am »
Moyes would be perfect. Please let it happen.

Offline McrRed

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2017, 07:30:30 am »
This is such a shite thread.

I looked back to have a bit of a chuckle at the England debacle and not a mention and then, bump, he's left Palace? Guys, our ridicule needs to be more on point; needs to be chronicled.

Offline Dudek savessssss.........!

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #94 on: May 24, 2017, 09:20:31 am »
Apparently this was discussed on TalkSport this morning and is indeed connected to the terrible events in Manchester on Monday.
There was a two-minute interlude where Liverpool’s three-man attack squared up against United’s three-man defence and basically stalked them back into their own penalty area, like battle-hardened mountain wolves closing in on a flock of geriatric sheep.  Barney Ronay at Anfield @barneyronay Sun 19 Jan 2020 20.36 GMT

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #95 on: May 24, 2017, 09:22:38 am »
Apparently this was discussed on TalkSport this morning and is indeed connected to the terrible events in Manchester on Monday.

In what way?
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Offline Dudek savessssss.........!

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #96 on: May 24, 2017, 09:29:14 am »
In what way?

Sorry mate, I refuse to listen to that station! A colleague does and said that Alan Brazil discussed it this morning. Sounds like bad news if it's true.
There was a two-minute interlude where Liverpool’s three-man attack squared up against United’s three-man defence and basically stalked them back into their own penalty area, like battle-hardened mountain wolves closing in on a flock of geriatric sheep.  Barney Ronay at Anfield @barneyronay Sun 19 Jan 2020 20.36 GMT

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #97 on: May 24, 2017, 02:16:48 pm »
Sorry mate, I refuse to listen to that station! A colleague does and said that Alan Brazil discussed it this morning. Sounds like bad news if it's true.
One of his relatives died or injured?
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Offline E2K

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #98 on: December 12, 2017, 03:26:03 pm »
I would have posted this in the Everton thread (which is locked) but it actually works quite well here as a bump for the continuing Sam Allardyce chronicles.

The next time Allardyce wonders why the true giants of English and, indeed, world club football have never recognised his greatness or beat a path to his door (and at 63, they're unlikely to at this point), he need only look at the tape of Sunday's game for his answer. 21% possession. 3 shots, 1 of them from the penalty spot. "The object of the exercise was to frustrate the opposition," he said afterwards. "Clear-cut chances for Liverpool were very few and far between for such a talented team."

Fair enough. However, this is a man who once stated the following: "I'm not suited to Bolton or Blackburn, I would be more suited to Internazionale or Real Madrid. It wouldn't be a problem to me to go and manage those clubs because I would win the Double or the league every time. Give me Manchester United or Chelsea and I would do the same, it wouldn't be a problem. It's not where I'm suited to, it's just where I've been for most of the time. It's not a problem to take me into the higher reaches of the Champions League or Premier League and would make my job a lot easier in winning it."

Some would no doubt argue that his tongue was planted firmly in his cheek when he said that, but I honestly don't think so. As recently as a few weeks ago he was lamenting the plight of British coaches, claiming that "I think you are almost deemed as second class because it is your country. It is a real shame that we are highly-educated, highly-talented coaches now with nowhere to go. The Premier League is the foreign league in England now." Yet in recent months we've seen Alan Pardew getting the West Brom job, David Moyes arriving at West Ham, Roy Hodgson at Crystal Palace. And here's Allardyce with the Everton job.

You have to read between the lines to see what he really means. It goes back to this idea of "where I'm suited to" and is very reminiscent of Ryan Giggs' attitude earlier in the year where he echoed Allardyce's sentiments about foreign coaches and stated that “if you don't get the chance, you don’t get the chance to prove what you can do and see what you can do with a talented team.”

A talented team. A quick calculation of mine at the time, armed with nothing more than an internet search engine and a cup of tea, revealed that 71 of the 92 Premier/Football League clubs in English football had either a British or Irish manager (and another from Gibraltar, a British territory). What Giggs was saying, the same as Allardyce a few weeks back, was that he wanted to manage a big club, not just any club, and certainly not the kind who tend to struggle or yo-yo between the top divisions.

The thing is, the very biggest and best clubs don't conduct themselves on the pitch the way Allardyce's team did on Sunday, the way Bolton, Blackburn, West Ham, Sunderland, Crystal Palace, etc., regularly did when he was in charge. Clubs that genuinely see themselves as "big" may often take a cautious approach or prioritise building strong defensive foundations, but they'll rarely eschew any form of attacking endeavour to quite the same extent or assume such a submissive position as Everton did yesterday afternoon, regardless of the opposition. That's why managers of a similar ilk, like Hodgson and Moyes, lasted 6 months and just under a year at Anfield and Old Trafford respectively, and why the latter has such a poor record away at the top clubs.

Even as Manchester United achieved 25% possession of the ball against Arsenal a few weeks back, conceding 16 shots on target in the process and depending on their goalkeeper to save them on several occasions, they still managed to score 3 goals and destroy their hosts with lethal counter-attacks. Within that defensive shell was the intent to attack if the opportunity arose (notwithstanding the brutally negative approach Mourinho typically takes on visits to Anfield, and it remains to be seen how a fanbase raised on the swagger of Alex Ferguson's sides reacts to that in the longer term). And some of the worst Premier League teams in recent memory (including Moyes' Sunderland last season and Tim Sherwood's Aston Villa the year before) were able to come to Anfield and create something without being on the end of a thrashing (0-2 and 2-3 respectively).

That Allardyce now finds himself managing a club which sits fourth on the all-time English League Championship roll of honour (3 ahead of Chelsea, 5 ahead of Manchester City, 7 ahead of Tottenham) and which, historically, is undoubtedly a "big" one speaks more towards how far that club has fallen than it does for the talents of a man whose major managerial honours continue to comprise the League of Ireland First Division title in 1992 and the English Third Division title in 1998.

Back in 2007, then-Liverpool boss Rafa Benítez (of whom Allardyce once said "would be very lucky to be in a job if he hadn't got to two Champions League finals, because they have had some very, very poor finishes in the Premier League") was mis-quoted, gleefully I would say, as saying that Everton were a small club. What he actually said was: "Small teams come here and play deep, narrow and compact, with nine men behind the ball...One team wanted to win here, and the other just didn’t want to lose. Maybe I would be happy with the same result in Barcelona later this month, but at least we try to create chances when we play away, rather than wait for mistakes from the opposition." His side would, of course, win that fixture in the home of the European champions a few weeks later.

Aside from the Barcelona reference, those comments from more than a decade ago remain eerily relevant in the context of Sunday's game. Benítez may as well have called Everton a small club, not only because he was accused of doing so anyway (naturally a similar level of criticism was not forthcoming for Ferguson a couple of years later when he did explicitly call Manchester City "a small club with a small mentality") but because, in terms of how they carry themselves, it would have been an accurate statement then and remains the case today, perhaps even more so (at least in 2007 they actually created the best chance of the game, with Andy Johnson shooting straight at Pepe Reina).

A geuinely big club will never appoint Sam Allardyce as their manager, and if one did briefly take leave of its senses, it would likely be a temporary state of affairs and take a lot more than an undeserved 1-1 draw in a single derby match to sate its supporters. See Hodgson's time at Anfield for proof, a man whose infamous statement that "to get a result here would have been Utopia" after a Merseyside derby defeat had supporters of a Red pursuasion foaming at the mouth, at the statement itself more than a 0-2 defeat which continues to represent Everton's last victory over their neighbours, 8 years, 15 games and 4 Liverpool managers ago. Conversely, Evertonians gave every impression of being in heaven after Sunday's result.

With the most expensive player on the pitch in their starting line-up (Gylfi Sigurðsson) and the third-most expensive goalkeeper of all-time between the sticks (Jordan Pickford), and against a home side missing several key players either out of choice (Coutinho, Firmino) or necessity (Lallana, Matip, Sturridge), Everton created nothing beyond one hit-and-hope punt that resulted in the award of a fortunate penalty from a referee who had been conned by a believable dive.

Any ensuing triumphalism from Evertonians (treating an undeserved point like it's their first victory at Anfield this century) and Allardyce (spinning it as further proof of his ability) only serves to suggest that, notwithstanding the supposed hand-wringing and misgivings amongst Evertonians upon his appointment, the relationship between them is likely to be a perfectly symbiotic one while it lasts. Having cost himself the England job, Everton now represents the best that Allardyce will ever do, and as long as he keeps delivering derby day points at Anfield he'll do just fine for a fanbase whose ambition to win trophies has long ago been surpassed by their desire to get under their neighbours' skin. Manager and club are already well "suited" to each other.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #99 on: December 12, 2017, 03:35:24 pm »
:wellin :wellin

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #100 on: December 12, 2017, 03:54:06 pm »
Cracking post

Offline Skeeve

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #101 on: December 12, 2017, 04:11:27 pm »
His latest comments in a spat with Carra over some fairly innocuous criticisms are amazingly arrogant and fucking funny, well worth checking out.

Offline dirks digglers

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2017, 04:34:16 pm »
Very good post E2K.

I can understand why Jurgen was irritated after the game, there's something insufferable about Allardyce and the 'big personality' little-Englander schtick that he projects (and the media seems to enjoy so much).

Yes, football is tribal. Yes, derbies are all about the getting one over on your enemies. Yes, by hook or by crook and with an iffy decision they sort of did that on Sunday and yes, you can argue that the end justifies the means, on paper at least.

But what bereft, soulless joy can be found in such utter negativity? What real delight is there in the smug self-satisfaction earned by such a lack of vision and daring and bravado? And this is what Allardyce has come to represent. That underlying sense of bitterness about johnny foreigner coming over here and thinking he can play a redoubtable English manager off the park with his fancy-nancy lightweight entertaining football.

You can't help but feel that Allardyce just lives for the snide spoiling of a party, revelling in a quivering sense of indignancy at the idea of other people (Germans no less!) stealing his birthright, his game.

I suppose it's fitting in these Brexit-y days that those three managers have all re-appeared, ready to don the khakis and get into the trenches to dig Everton and West Ham and Palace out of the mire, proving that good old Blighty can show those oh-so-superior invaders a thing or two about plucky English resolve.

Personally, I've never felt more European.  :)
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #103 on: December 12, 2017, 04:41:35 pm »
(snip)

My god I wish I could write half as good as that. Seriously good stuff.

I'll throw a googly out there though. And loathe as I am to defend Allardyce, I do believe that when he was talking about that "I should be at Madrid or Barcelona" statement, he was talking about his use of sports science and match analysis, which at the time in England still wasn't as much of a big deal in English football as it is now. So in a small way, he had a point. But in a bigger way, he totally missed the point :D Because the continental clubs had been using sports science and match analysis as a matter of course since at least mid-90's. And that would have left Sam with his tactics. And those aren't so hot for big clubs that expect their teams to play expansive football. So he would have been found out anyway. He was correct, in a way. But he was correct in the way that only an English manager could be, talking to English people, about the English game. If he'd said the same at a Spanish team, or an Italian team, he'd have been laughed out of the country within a week.
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Offline idontknow

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #104 on: December 12, 2017, 04:44:39 pm »
E2K, brilliant as usual.
dirks digglers, good assessment, and I heartily agree in feeling increasingly European amid all the Little England angst.

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