Author Topic: Chilcot Report (*) - Grijhva Cncivtion  (Read 20288 times)

Offline SP

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Chilcot Report (*) - Grijhva Cncivtion
« on: July 5, 2016, 09:56:09 pm »
The Chilcot Report is due out tomorrow.

http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk/

Behave.
« Last Edit: July 5, 2017, 03:09:43 pm by SP »

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #1 on: July 5, 2016, 10:12:05 pm »
Should be an interesting day.

but watched C4 news earlier and they interviewed the 1st sea lord at the time and he said he was not asked to appear at Chilcot and he said he was asked to prepare for war months before it happened.

So all that time and money and they didn't interview  the 1st sea lord
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #2 on: July 5, 2016, 10:13:22 pm »

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #3 on: July 5, 2016, 10:15:25 pm »
Didn't see the interview Trada, but a key function of the military is based around preparedness for war.

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #4 on: July 5, 2016, 10:16:30 pm »
The Ant and Dec - lets get ready to rumble thread, awakens............


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Offline Les Willis

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #5 on: July 5, 2016, 10:25:32 pm »

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #6 on: July 5, 2016, 10:32:55 pm »
That timeline is hilarious..  ;D

The dog :lmao

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #7 on: July 5, 2016, 10:36:36 pm »
Should be an interesting day.

but watched C4 news earlier and they interviewed the 1st sea lord at the time and he said he was not asked to appear at Chilcot and he said he was asked to prepare for war months before it happened.

So all that time and money and they didn't interview  the 1st sea lord

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/chilcot-report-iraq-war-inquiry-tony-blair-un-resolution-planned-to-go-before-a7120201.html

Would that have come under the terms of reference of the inquiry?
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #8 on: July 5, 2016, 10:59:11 pm »
I think it's worth pre-emptively leaving a link to the International Criminal Court's (ICC's) 'War Crimes' definition here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court#War_crimes

I fear there's a risk of it being misappropriated

Offline SP

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #9 on: July 5, 2016, 11:01:06 pm »
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/chilcot-report-iraq-war-inquiry-tony-blair-un-resolution-planned-to-go-before-a7120201.html

Would that have come under the terms of reference of the inquiry?

The problem with proving that is that the preparations could be viewed through the prism of preparedness. If the forces were in readiness and capable of the operation, it renders an invasion as a possible course of action. It's circumstantial rather than damning.

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #10 on: July 5, 2016, 11:22:11 pm »
 Posted this in Labour thread, but more suited to this...
: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-case-against-blair-15-charges-that-have-yet-to-be-answered-2190375.html

 Incidentally Lord Goldsmith (whose sudden 180 gave st Anthony a tenuous thread of legality to his Invasion plans. ) Went on to become an equity partner in Debevoise & Plimpton (founded in 2003) and his law firm got to represent the Guantanamo detainees... Its a small world.         

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #11 on: July 5, 2016, 11:26:49 pm »
Institutions will be blamed more than individuals, but the judgment of some individuals will be questioned.

No one will change their mind, as we've pretty much all heard the evidence and have formed our opinion.


Some will claim it is a whitewash as it fails to throw certain individuals under a bus.

No one will be put forward for being prosecuted for war crimes.  Mostly because no international laws were broken, and the purpose of the report was nothing to do with that what so ever.

People from both sides of the fence will claim that views have been misrepresented.

The lessons to be learned from the conflict have (pretty much) already been learned.  However, in the fullness of time, they will be forgotten and the same mistakes made in the future.

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #12 on: July 5, 2016, 11:42:50 pm »
It will be interesting to see what's not in the report, or how much of it is redacted.


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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #13 on: July 6, 2016, 12:02:03 am »
I think it's worth pre-emptively leaving a link to the International Criminal Court's (ICC's) 'War Crimes' definition here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court#War_crimes

I fear there's a risk of it being misappropriated
War of Aggression ?

" A war of aggression, sometimes also war of conquest, is a military conflict waged without the justification of self-defense, usually for territorial gain and subjugation. The phrase is distinctly modern and diametrically opposed to the prior legal international standard of "might makes right", under the medieval and pre-historic beliefs of right of conquest. Since the Korean War of the early 1950s, waging such a war of aggression is a crime under the customary international law. Possibly the first trial for waging aggressive war is that of the Sicilian king Conradin in 1268.[1]

 Wars without international legality (e.g. not out of self-defense nor sanctioned by the United Nations Security Council) can be considered wars of aggression; however, this alone usually does not constitute the definition of a war of aggression; certain wars may be unlawful but not aggressive (a war to settle a boundary dispute where the initiator has a reasonable claim, and limited aims, is one example). 

In the judgment of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, which followed World War II, "War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."[2] [3] Article 39 of the United Nations Charter provides that the UN Security Council shall determine the existence of any act of aggression and "shall make recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace and security".

The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court refers to the crime of aggression as one of the “most serious crimes of concern to the international community”, and provides that the crime falls within the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC). However, the Rome Statute stipulates that the ICC may not exercise its jurisdiction over the crime of aggression until such time as the states parties agree on a definition of the crime and set out the conditions under which it may be prosecuted. At the Review Conference in June 11, 2010 a total of 111 State Parties to the Court agreed by consensus to adopt a resolution accepting the definition of the crime and the conditions for the exercise of jurisdiction over this crime.[4] The relevant amendments to the Statute, however has not been entered into force yet as of May 14, 2012."


Offline SP

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #14 on: July 6, 2016, 12:54:47 am »

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #15 on: July 6, 2016, 04:46:14 am »
Think this will be a whitewash personally unless it covers the infamous conversation between Bush and Blair where they both agreed to invade doing 'God's Duty', prior to a vote in Parliament.
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #16 on: July 6, 2016, 06:43:40 am »
Think this will be a whitewash personally unless it covers the infamous conversation between Bush and Blair where they both agreed to invade doing 'God's Duty', prior to a vote in Parliament.
This report is more of an historical account.

If that conversation is already in the public domain, I'm not sure what people think the report is going to add to it.

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #17 on: July 6, 2016, 06:56:27 am »
This report is more of an historical account.

If that conversation is already in the public domain, I'm not sure what people think the report is going to add to it.



Allegedly in one of the memos. An agreement for regime change in Iraq before the Parliamentary vote.
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #18 on: July 6, 2016, 07:01:28 am »
Allegedly in one of the memos. An agreement for regime change in Iraq before the Parliamentary vote.
quite.

I just worry that people think there will be these stunning revelations in the report.

There won't be, the vast majority of the evidence is in the public domain already.  That's why I'm a little perplexed when you use the term 'whitewash', as I'm not really sure what you expected for it not to be considered a whitewash.
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #19 on: July 6, 2016, 10:28:59 am »
David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen  Jul 5

A report you will not read and which is not intended to deal with war crimes must now become the basis of your strong opinion on war crimes.

David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen  Jul 5

In no circumstances must you allow inconvenient fact Chilcot report will not actually deal with war crimes liability to cloud your view.

David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen  Jul 5

Your two choices are:

(a) "Chilcot endorses my view that
  • is a war criminal", or

(b) "Whitewash!"

No third choice will be available

;D

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #20 on: July 6, 2016, 11:13:31 am »
I wonder how in depth this report will reach, in what was reported by Dr David Kelly what was the the level of content that was a key driver for the engagement of war and what was supposedly "sexed up", to facilitate the opinion that war was indeed the last action or was there indeed overwhelming evidence of WMD's.   
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #21 on: July 6, 2016, 11:16:01 am »
Blair wrote to Bush in July 2002 saying he would be, "with you, whatever," Chilcot finds.

Chilcot: "We have concluded that UK invaded Iraq before peaceful options had been exhausted."
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #22 on: July 6, 2016, 11:16:46 am »
David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen  Jul 5

A report you will not read and which is not intended to deal with war crimes must now become the basis of your strong opinion on war crimes.

David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen  Jul 5

In no circumstances must you allow inconvenient fact Chilcot report will not actually deal with war crimes liability to cloud your view.

David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen  Jul 5

Your two choices are:

(a) "Chilcot endorses my view that
  • is a war criminal", or

(b) "Whitewash!"

No third choice will be available

;D
;D
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #23 on: July 6, 2016, 11:19:46 am »
Chilcot: circumstances in which Blair government decided it was legal to go to war with Iraq were "far from satisfactory"

Chilcot: now clear that policy on Iraq made on basis of flawed intelligence and assessments. Were not challenged, should have been.
« Last Edit: July 6, 2016, 11:22:13 am by Trada »
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #24 on: July 6, 2016, 11:22:27 am »
"It is now clear, the policy on Iraq was made on the basis of flawed intelligence and assessments"


Doesn't get any more damning than that for me.
« Last Edit: July 6, 2016, 11:30:57 am by Chđţţerssssson »
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #25 on: July 6, 2016, 11:27:01 am »
This is as damning as it's possible to be, considering the level of discourse expected. I wonder what happens now?
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #26 on: July 6, 2016, 11:27:48 am »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #27 on: July 6, 2016, 11:30:02 am »
Wow - people have read it already!
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #28 on: July 6, 2016, 11:31:41 am »
Please, please, find me something, anything, in the Report which appears to back up my pre-conceived opinion.
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #29 on: July 6, 2016, 11:33:14 am »
Please, please, find me something, anything, in the Report which appears to back up my pre-conceived opinion.

 :D
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #30 on: July 6, 2016, 11:34:09 am »
People are already stating this is as damning as it could have been but is it just me or did we pretty much know all of this already?

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #31 on: July 6, 2016, 11:34:50 am »
The more you hear about the lack of tangible evidence on WMD's to be a go for war - has me thinking of the pressures Dr David Kelly must of been under, to produce a document of evidence to make it a go, and lead this country into war, and ultimately the loss of life to our armed forces and the many, many innocent people. The poor sod.
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #32 on: July 6, 2016, 11:35:06 am »
Please, please, find me something, anything, in the Report which appears to back up my pre-conceived opinion.

Its from what Chilcot is saying.
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #33 on: July 6, 2016, 11:35:40 am »

That is fucking shocking! It makes me feel deeply ashamed to be English, I won't say British, because it was this country that dragged us into this war! :no
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #34 on: July 6, 2016, 11:36:52 am »
Its from what Chilcot is saying.

Really? I thought it was from the Warren Commission.
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #35 on: July 6, 2016, 11:38:57 am »
Really? I thought it was from the Warren Commission.

I thought this thread had a * by it.
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #36 on: July 6, 2016, 11:39:08 am »
Really? I thought it was from the Warren Commission.

Any need for that?
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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #37 on: July 6, 2016, 11:42:52 am »
No WMDs, no credible intelligence, no imminent danger, no plan of action, shortage of support and lack of resources!

So when will the report tell us something we haven't known for a decade.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #38 on: July 6, 2016, 11:42:52 am »
People are already stating this is as damning as it could have been but is it just me or did we pretty much know all of this already?

The way I see it is that anyone with half a brain, who has been following such events, knows that it was a pack of lies the reasons why we invaded, and that it has been a monumental disaster, a humanitarian tragedy.

I don't need a million page report to confirm this.

Offline HarryLabrador

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Re: Chilcot Report (*)
« Reply #39 on: July 6, 2016, 11:43:00 am »
He hasn't told us anything we didn't know, but absolutely shocked Chilcot came to the same conclusion.
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