Topic: Underrated songwriters

[S]

it does depend on what someone is "rated" for though.  like, jimi hendrix is renowned and revered and famed for his guitar ability, but is actually a very underrated songwriter too.

kind of thing.  doesn't really apply to albarn though.

This is what I took the thread to mean as well. Whether or not you think an artist gets praised on their songwriting ability to the extent that they deserve.

For me, Springsteen is a great songwriter, but I'm less enamoured with his own recordings of the songs. I only realised he was good after years of not getting it, because a mate of mine used to play loads of stuff on the acoustic. shorn of all the production bombast of the likes of Born In The Usa, I could see the songs for what they were, which is excellently written material.

This is exactly what I mean about Springsteen. Like yourself, I think a lot of people hear his massive hits, particularly stuff from the eighties, and get turned off. It's an understandable reaction, and that's coming from a huge fan. If they do like the songs, it tends to be in a fairly superficial way without any consideration of the meaning behind the lyrics. Sabrina don't stare at it, eat it.

I am a big fan of James Mercer (of the Shins and Broken Bells), I love some of the lyrics from the debut Broken Bells album.  So yeah, I think he is pretty underrated.

Agreed.

[telekon]

I am a big fan of James Mercer

First one of the bunch I'd wholeheartedly agree with. But then again, he is goddam rated, isn't he. 

No offense, but it's a bit of a contradiction to start a thread named "underrated songwriters" and start off with Damon Albarn, one of the most written about song writers (in the UK at least) for the last 20 odd years.

Anywho, I'd like throw Molly Rankin (of Alvvays) in the mix. No political agenda of gender quota at all, just a brilliant, brilliant songwriter. Incredible sensitivity for melody and structure. Right up there with James Mercer and Stuart Murdoch of the contemporaries in my view.

[Pistolero]

Roddy Frame.....should be alongside the statues of Nick Lowe

[Ray K]

Roddy Frame.....should be alongside the statues of Nick Lowe

In a similar vein and era to Roddy, Paddy McAloon was a brilliant songwriter.  Steve McQueen is an impeachably brilliant album.


The best songwriting team from the UK post 1990 are Norman Blake/Gerard Love/Raymond McGinley.  Teenage Fanclub spent about 15 years writing timeless pop songs.

[Brooklyn]

Malkmus, certainly. Also like the work of Bob Mould and Henry Rollins.

[sideshowme]

In a similar vein and era to Roddy, Paddy McAloon was a brilliant songwriter.  Steve McQueen is an impeachably brilliant album.


The best songwriting team from the UK post 1990 are Norman Blake/Gerard Love/Raymond McGinley.  Teenage Fanclub spent about 15 years writing timeless pop songs.

i bought a teenage fanclub album on tape (!) in the mid-90s and never got round to listening to it.  any recommendations for tracks to check out?

[TepidT2O]

i bought a teenage fanclub album on tape (!) in the mid-90s and never got round to listening to it.  any recommendations for tracks to check out?

Is it verisimilitude?

[moondog]

Mick Head, now there's one. Never had a proper hit, yet his career spans two fantastic bands, plus the Strands, plus his latest REB stuff. Dozens of timeless classics under appreciated and largely ignored outside of Liverpool.

too true. also it should be noted that Mick refused to be support for Blur back in 1989.

[Ray K]

i bought a teenage fanclub album on tape (!) in the mid-90s and never got round to listening to it.  any recommendations for tracks to check out?

Any of the opening 6 tracks of Grand Prix.  It's like a greatest hits album.
Can't go wrong with Don't Look Back, Mellow Doubt, Neil Jung. 

Best place to start might be the compilation album A Short Cut to ...  Includes classics like Hang On, Ain't That Enough, and Star Sign as well as the ones above from Grand Prix.

[gritsvanilla]

Too fucking many to mention but i'll second the shouts for Nick Lowe, Paddy McAloon and Andy Partridge, three of my favourite British songwriters.

Some others who haven't yet been mentioned are Lowell George (Little Feat), Robbie Robertson (The Band), Colin Moulding (Andy Partridge's less prolific band mate in XTC), Jackson Browne and Gene Clark (not only a member of The Byrds but his solo stuff and stuff with Doug Dillard is absolutely brilliant too).

[Anywhichwayicant]

Ed Sheeran

[FlashingBlade]

Mike E Smith hugely underrated ,....writes a lovely melodious tune , you don't hear much of his work now though, mostly on Golden Oldies Waiting to Die FM....sadly now has to use his song writing talents for TV Adverts to earn a living, most famously John Lewis.. " No Christmas for John Keys 'cos the fucker didn't have enough money to shop at JLP cos he spent it all on Skag".. though they didn't broadcast the TV add....pity...and recently helped out War on Drugs on their album track order.

Underrated Songwriters....by whom exactly? the mass of spoon fed knobs who wouldn't know a good original tune if it come and slapped them across the gob ...For those who don't know Mick Head , Andy Partridge or Peter Shelley etc are fucking genius writers then what the fuck are they doing with themselves!.....listening to fucking War on Drugs probably!!

[Crosby Nick]

Any of the opening 6 tracks of Grand Prix.  It's like a greatest hits album.
Can't go wrong with Don't Look Back, Mellow Doubt, Neil Jung. 

Best place to start might be the compilation album A Short Cut to ...  Includes classics like Hang On, Ain't That Enough, and Star Sign as well as the ones above from Grand Prix.

Seconded. Brilliant album.

[IanZG]

This is very much a matter of preference, but Brian Fallon of The Gaslight Anthem is a great songwriter, something about the way he writes the songs just gets me... Also, got very much into Frank Turner recently, he has some brilliantly written songs.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Andy Partridge, XTC absolute class british songwriter.

Hugely underated ˇ ,

Very good shout. Really does fit the topic.

Not sure how rared Tom Waits is, but is among the best IMO.

I'll throw in Nick Cave as another.

[only6times]

Matt Johnson.

[Pistolero]

the late great Jake Thackary....

[saoirse08]

Daniel Johnston has written some beautiful and deeply sad songs.

[Glass Kites]

Howie Payne (Howard Elliott Payne) - formerly of The Stands, but also released a brilliant solo album.

Local lad too, but been quiet for the last few years.

[KERRYKOP]

Gruff Rhys. Witty, prolific, daring, he can churn out an amazing pop song as well as an experimental piece of nonsense that is completely his own. 

He's been on the road a few year's at this stage and strikes me as a artist who's appreciation will grow as the albums rack up.

Pop 101

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/BANdftxuqlM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/BANdftxuqlM</a>

Nonsense

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ZhBX6wy202U" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ZhBX6wy202U</a>

[Crosby Nick]

Gruff Rhys. Witty, prolific, daring, he can churn out an amazing pop song as well as an experimental piece of nonsense that is completely his own. 

Yes indeed!

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Gruff Rhys. Witty, prolific, daring, he can churn out an amazing pop song as well as an experimental piece of nonsense that is completely his own. 

Great shout. Super Furries are criminally underrated, even if the last couple of albums tailed off a bit.

I can highly recommend Cian Ciaren's (SFA keyboardist) solo debut (not the second one though) - especially You & Me, which is fantastic, like a lost John Lennon solo song if he's been Welsh.

[KERRYKOP]

I can highly recommend Cian Ciaren's (SFA keyboardist) solo debut (not the second one though) - especially You & Me, which is fantastic, like a lost John Lennon solo song if he's been Welsh.

Iv listened to a lot of his remixes and have been never really been blown away, which is disappointing considering he seemed to be the sonic driving force behind the Furries. I'll give your suggestion a whirl though because my opinion is based on work which is probably a decade old at this stage.   

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Iv listened to a lot of his remixes and have been never really been blown away, which is disappointing considering he seemed to be the sonic driving force behind the Furries. I'll give your suggestion a whirl though because my opinion is based on work which is probably a decade old at this stage.   

I think it was a shame their once-mooted techno album never materialised, although lots of it was cannibalised into things like Slow Life so it might have been worth it, that's one of my favourite Furries tracks. I love his first album which the below track was the single from, but the second album he got all the electric guitars out and I thought it was bobbins. Like all Furries, he appears to oscillate wildly in style from time to time.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ekSQ6ja1ZJc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ekSQ6ja1ZJc</a>

Here's the track I mentioned.

"Whatever happened to all the people/who gave a fuck?" - great opening line.

also, I forgot to mention the Neon Neon albums, both of which I really enjoyed, as more feathers in Gruff's cap/wolf's head hat.

[dave 5516]

Ben Folds

Truth.

[dave 5516]

Little known or appreciated outside of country....man was a genius....if you've heard him...you know this..if not....you will soon...










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[Ray K]

Ben Folds

Truth.

Love me some Ben Folds.  Very entertaining live too. Friend of mine used to work with his record company and he's a very sound bloke.

[cloggypop]

Luke Haines has written some fantastic songs.

If we are going for local talent then Edgar Summertyme should be in here as well.

[KERRYKOP]

I think it was a shame their once-mooted techno album never materialised, although lots of it was cannibalised into things like Slow Life so it might have been worth it, that's one of my favourite Furries tracks. I love his first album which the below track was the single from, but the second album he got all the electric guitars out and I thought it was bobbins. Like all Furries, he appears to oscillate wildly in style from time to time.

Here's the track I mentioned.

"Whatever happened to all the people/who gave a fuck?" - great opening line.

also, I forgot to mention the Neon Neon albums, both of which I really enjoyed, as more feathers in Gruff's cap/wolf's head hat.

Slow Life is a fantastic track, listen through a decent set of speakers or headphones to get the full compliment, so much going on beneath the surface.

Gruff is brim full of ideas, that's been his fuel, he can take on outlandish concepts and pull them off without the faintest hint of pretentiousness. The fact he can sing about war without sounding like a dick is some accolade.

There's a new SFA book out Im not sure if you've seen. It has had full participation with the band and looks very good indeed.
http://www.amazon.com/Rise-The-Super-Furry-Animals/dp/0008105235

His interviews are worthy a look as well, he speaks so slowly, but is still is as sharp as a tack, his mind works in a wonderful and odd way.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/j5ql1aNvM0c" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/j5ql1aNvM0c</a>

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[Timbo's Goals]

I don't think people have quite go the hang of this 

 What makes you say that P?



Nah - I think there's some good shouts been made.

On the British front, although Mick Head gives them a real run for their money for me the Fannies trio have to be the best shout in terms of creating a pantheon of great pop songs of numero uno quality across half a dozen albums that hardly any fucker has ever heard other than Fannies diehards. They just seemed able to churn them out time after time. All stand repeated listening too.

Hmm, then again Mick Head is as scouse as they come - so I guess Mick just edges it 

On a really really really unknown/unsung Brit level I'd go for the lad behind Witness Uk - Gerard Starkie - then again that could be partly because he's such an incredible singer.

On a world level as Britain's joint second biggest Band devotee I obviously have to support Sam's Robbie Robertson nomination but for me there is only one winner of the mantle of true great who is almost entirely overlooked/unheralded - Gene Clark - who is up there with the very finest songwriters ever. Why he isn't regarded as such is not only one of music's greatest mysteries but very possibly its greatest injustice. His For a Spanish Guitar is the only song Dylan ever said he wished he'd written.



 

[KERRYKOP]

Little known or appreciated outside of country....man was a genius....if you've heard him...you know this..if not....you will soon...

Pancho and Lefty could quite possibly be my favourite song. Was introduced to it first by Steve Earle, I've spent quite a lot of time trying to perfect it myself, which could be a lifelong ambition. I have no idea what the song is about and who are Pancho and Lefty, but I think that's the point, a mysterious story of a doomed friends or lovers. 

Here's a live version of Steve Earle singing Pancho and Lefty. Melancholic Beauty.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/iMCJJkIR4pY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/iMCJJkIR4pY</a>

The man himself singing it in the documentary 'Heartworn Highways' that you really should check out if you haven't already. The story of genius kicking around his ranch, drinking whiskey with his elderly black mate. What's not to love?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/zprRZ2wFQD4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/zprRZ2wFQD4</a>

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Hmm, then again Mick Head is as scouse as they come - so I guess Mick just edges it 

And a good Red as well.

Good shouts on Fanclub, Gene Clark and the lad from Witness - remember being blown away by their first two singles, Scars and Audition I think? Under a Sun was pretty good if I recall, might have to dig it out for a listen soon.

[Timbo's Goals]

And a good Red as well.

Good shouts on Fanclub, Gene Clark and the lad from Witness - remember being blown away by their first two singles, Scars and Audition I think? Under a Sun was pretty good if I recall, might have to dig it out for a listen soon.

You'll find it rewarding Sam I'm sure. The Under a Sun album has about half a dozen tracks that compare with most of the sort of stuff we tend to rate. I found the earlier album harder to get into but I persevered and again it reveals some real gems. His solo album is not quite the same level but still of a quality that I think Starkie simply finds it difficult to fall below. Not sure where he's got to since that solo album. What I love about his voice is very likely the same thing I find in Gene's voice - that sort of aching longing/loneliness which can take a song to a level all of its own.

Like you I think i'll be spending some time digging out all of this stuff now. I love these sort of threads for precisely that reason - they really do blow away the fog and whet the appetite.

 

[FlashingBlade]

And a good Red as well.

I thought he was a blue...or is it his brother.....or am I getting twixed with Lee Mavers....which talking about underated songwriters!....but then he's not underated , like many mentioned already which begs the question once again...underated by who?

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I thought he was a blue...or is it his brother.....or am I getting twixed with Lee Mavers....which talking about underated songwriters!....but then he's not underated , like many mentioned already which begs the question once again...underated by who?

Mavers is defo a blue, positive Mick is a red as I used to buy *something* from the same bloke as him and I'd hear them chatting footy in there once in a while.

Only underrated by those with cloth ears or closed minds I suppose Those who know, know...

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Oh yes and the TvZ/Pancho and Lefty shouts above, one of the very best songs that. A whole narrative play that you can dive into and look at all the angles of...creates fantastic pictures in the mind I find. Was introduced by a mate who used to play it at open mic nights, also love Townes' 'Waiting Around To Die', downer but great.

[Timbo's Goals]

I thought he was a blue...or is it his brother.....or am I getting twixed with Lee Mavers....which talking about underated songwriters!....but then he's not underated , like many mentioned already which begs the question once again...underated by who?

I think it's really a case of a songwriter not really being appreciated by an audience of a size that is commensurate with the quality of the songs the artist has written/performed.

I'd use Gene Clark as the ultimate litmus test. I'd say he's got around 40 songs in his pantheon that "most" artists would give their eye teeth to have written - or to have written songs of comparable quality.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I think it's really a case of a songwriter not really being appreciated by an audience of a size that is commensurate with the quality of the songs the artist has written/performed.

Yep that sounds good as a definition of underrated with regards to songwriters to me...Timbo's come to rescue the thread and make us all follow some rules

[FlashingBlade]

I think it's really a case of a songwriter not really being appreciated by an audience of a size that is commensurate with the quality of the songs the artist has written/performed.

Then, despite some commercial success, the answer to this thread is........................Paddy McAloon

[Timbo's Goals]

Yep that sounds good as a definition of underrated with regards to songwriters to me...Timbo's come to rescue the thread and make us all follow some rules

Ha ha -