Author Topic: Daniel Agger  (Read 394672 times)

Offline Aristotle

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #160 on: October 28, 2013, 11:42:57 am »
Those quotes don't really say anything though, do they? He could just as easily have meant that if it were a choice between running down his contract and collecting a paycheck, he'd rather want to leave and play elsewhere.
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Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #161 on: October 28, 2013, 11:57:08 am »
Play him or he will leave, simple as that. Our three centre backs who seem to be ahead of him aren't playing exceptional (particularly skrtel) so why annoy our vice captain and best centre back who is probably the most suited defender to our style of play in Europe Ffs!?
Opinions abound, but he isn't our best centre back. Well, defencive centre back anyway.

Not really ideal timing going into the Arsenal game to start changing things about, and to be brutally honest, the defence as it sits right now, is pretty solid.

He either plays his way back into the team or someone plays themselves out of the team, nothing more, nothing less.

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Offline Mr_Morosoph

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #162 on: October 28, 2013, 12:02:25 pm »
Opinions abound, but he isn't our best centre back. Well, defencive centre back anyway.

Not really ideal timing going into the Arsenal game to start changing things about, and to be brutally honest, the defence as it sits right now, is pretty solid.

He either plays his way back into the team or someone plays themselves out of the team, nothing more, nothing less.



Who is, in your opinion?
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Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #163 on: October 28, 2013, 12:05:53 pm »
Who is, in your opinion?
Currently, Kolo. In time, I believe it will be Sakho.
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Offline Mr_Morosoph

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #164 on: October 28, 2013, 12:10:43 pm »
Currently, Kolo. In time, I believe it will be Sakho.

Fair enough. People always mention Agger being our best ball playing centre back but I think he's also our best defensive centre back, dodgy set-piece defending aside. I could be on my own there though.
"I was pleased also with Peter Crouch. We have been talking to him, before and after his nose operation, to show more confidence with his heading.
 
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Offline bissozwei

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #165 on: October 28, 2013, 12:12:19 pm »
Once again Agger's quotes have been misinterpreted and/or blown way out of proportions. He's being asked directly by the interviewer, what - if anything - could make him leave the club, and he answers:

- First and foremost if I don't play. If the manager does not believe that I am good enough, then that could cause me to leave the club, Agger says.

How is that controversial? Hypothetically, if Rodgers had hinted to Agger that he wasn't going to play again any time soon due to not being good enough, should he stay at the club and risk his place in the national team? Absolutely not. Would Rodgers have made Agger VC if he didn't rate him? Of course not.

Agger loves the club, but he's a professional footballer and thus needs to play regularly. In no way does he suggest that he is considering leaving the club at this time.

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #166 on: October 28, 2013, 12:12:36 pm »
Currently, Kolo. In time, I believe it will be Sakho.

I agree with you there mate which is why I think he should come in for Skrtel. They are similar defensively but for the way we play I'm gobsmacked skrtel gets in ahead of agger. Accident waiting to happen and isn't great with the ball. Agger is one of the best ball playing centre backs and is such a calming influence. Him, kolo and Sakho would be a wonderful blend. Sakho would benefit too, could learn from toure defensively and he looks like he could also be a ball player.
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Offline robgomm

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #167 on: October 28, 2013, 12:14:42 pm »
I reckon Kolo's the best centre-back as well to be honest, all around. Skrtl is best at very deep, last ditch stuff and covering, almost a wee bit like a sweeper and I guess that, as well as his broadly solid performances, are why he's in ahead of Agger. I think Agger's a better player though but he'll have to wait for his go.

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #168 on: October 28, 2013, 12:22:03 pm »
Toure has been involved in 42 aerial duels in the League and won only 18 of them. That is absolutely horrendous and provides the opposition with a weakness they can exploit time and time again. You pair him with Johnson and you have a glaring weakness in the air down that side of the pitch. If we are going to sit deep and look to use Suarez and Sturridge on the counter then for me we need Skrtel in the side.

If we are going to push out and play a high line then Agger and Toure make sense.
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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #169 on: October 28, 2013, 12:27:02 pm »
He's a professional footballer. He should know that this is the way it happens, you get injured, lose your place and then have to wait for an injury, a ban or a disastrous performance to get back in again, especially if we aren't in Europe. I don't think he is so much better that one of the three now playing should be sacrificed. True Skrtel makes some stupid mistakes, but then remember Agger's idiotic handball against Stoke that so nearly screwed up the start of our season!
I agree with this, it sets a bad example to other players too if someone can just waltz back into the team. Skrtel got his chance against Man U and put in a MOTM performance. He has made some mistakes during the following games but none big enough to sway the manager's judgment into dropping him back to the bench.

Kolo has performed well every game and his leadership, attitude and organisational qualities are vital. Sakho has been brilliant and Skrtel has been solid.

It's good that Agger is not content with being on the bench, impress the manager in training and take your chance when you are given it and you'll be straight back in the team.





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Offline LoubySoho

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #170 on: October 28, 2013, 12:27:04 pm »
Fair enough. People always mention Agger being our best ball playing centre back but I think he's also our best defensive centre back, dodgy set-piece defending aside. I could be on my own there though.

I agree with you. I think that he is our best defender and there will be more times that he has defended a set piece then hasn't but there not the one people remember.
At the moment I'm not fully convince with Sakho yet but thats just my opinion. If we went to a back 2 it would be Toure and Agger for me.

And Agger has always said that he will stay at the club as long as hes wanted and if hes not wanted then he'll leave. If he did i dont think he would be short of clubs wanting to buy him.

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #171 on: October 28, 2013, 12:31:10 pm »
Q. What would make you leave?

A. Not playing

Fair enough.

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #172 on: October 28, 2013, 12:39:42 pm »
Toure has been involved in 42 aerial duels in the League and won only 18 of them.

Haven't seen this stat, do you have a link where I could find how the rest of our CBs fare in that regard?

Offline BER

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #173 on: October 28, 2013, 12:39:43 pm »
Toure has been involved in 42 aerial duels in the League and won only 18 of them. That is absolutely horrendous and provides the opposition with a weakness they can exploit time and time again. You pair him with Johnson and you have a glaring weakness in the air down that side of the pitch. If we are going to sit deep and look to use Suarez and Sturridge on the counter then for me we need Skrtel in the side.

If we are going to push out and play a high line then Agger and Toure make sense.

Considering Agger is our slowest CB, how does it make sense?

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #174 on: October 28, 2013, 12:43:17 pm »
Q. What would make you leave?

A. Not playing

Fair enough.

Indeed. On your fucking bike mate and pick your dummy up on the way out.
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Offline Vinay

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #175 on: October 28, 2013, 12:48:27 pm »
Based on recent performance, I wouldn't change the defence at all.

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #176 on: October 28, 2013, 12:49:10 pm »
I agree with you there mate which is why I think he should come in for Skrtel. They are similar defensively but for the way we play I'm gobsmacked skrtel gets in ahead of agger. Accident waiting to happen and isn't great with the ball. Agger is one of the best ball playing centre backs and is such a calming influence. Him, kolo and Sakho would be a wonderful blend. Sakho would benefit too, could learn from toure defensively and he looks like he could also be a ball player.
He's been given his chance Skrtel and he's taking it. You can't ask for anything more and to be fair to them on saturday, we conceded through a daft pen, not some massive defencive failing.

If Agger wants his place back, then he's going to have to earn it back. He won't or at least he shouldn't be considered due to some sort of misguided loyalty, he gets in because he earns it. And that goes for anyone in the team.

Its a great place to be to have a team that has good players being held out of the team by another players performances. This current 'predicament' we currently find ourselves in with Agger, should be embraced and not questioned.
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Offline LoubySoho

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #177 on: October 28, 2013, 12:57:23 pm »
How has he spit his dummy out, he was asked what would make him leave and he said not playing because the manager doesn't think hes good enough. not because he's been left on the bench. I'm sure he understands the situation. Would you him prefer him to say that he rather just sit on the bench and get paid every week?

Im sure he's working really hard in training and didnt just expect his place back and the perfomances haven't been that good.

Offline csgreen

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #178 on: October 28, 2013, 01:04:23 pm »
He's been given his chance Skrtel and he's taking it. You can't ask for anything more and to be fair to them on saturday, we conceded through a daft pen, not some massive defencive failing.

Oh. I see. So if Anelka, after Skrtel whiffed on another header, actually put away a ball that any half decent striker would bury, or if they had capitalized after Skrtel headed directly to the feet of an opposing player at the top of our 18, or if they had taken their chance on the break after Skrtel passed to no one in particular in our attacking end, or if Skrtel was called for a pen on the pretty obvious take down in the box... 

Just as others are correctly pointing out that Agger shouldn't get a pass for the Stoke handball just because it didn't end up costing us anything - one shouldn't give  Skrtel a pass for his many as yet unpunished errors....

Offline Red Bird

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #179 on: October 28, 2013, 01:04:36 pm »
Its a great place to be to have a team that has good players being held out of the team by another players performances. This current 'predicament' we currently find ourselves in with Agger, should be embraced and not questioned.
Again, yes.

Offline DerKaiser

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #180 on: October 28, 2013, 01:09:10 pm »
I agree that Agger is possibly our best CB on paper and on his day....But i can remember last "his day" somewhere in 2007.

 

07/08 he was warming the bench behind Skrtel/Carra

08/09 he was warming bench behind Skrtel/Carra...bar injuries

09/10 he was carried y Carra

10/11 he was bwhind Soto in Roys packong order and then behind Skrtel/Carra

11/12 he had solid season, but Skrtel ha d season of his life so Danny was carried by

12/13 his worst season, directly culpable for 12 goals between december and March...but Brendan stood by him even if hr was in worst shape I  can remember him

13/14....two clean shhets with Kolo, but Kolo was saving his ass throughout the two games + Mignolet

ten outperformed by Skrtel who started after six months (credit to Danny he did not make howler against the mancs)

....Then fucked up the Soton goal....

 

....And about jis offensive qualities...he had 1 goal assist in last 3 seasons...and his last last "trademark" shot was against Blackburn in april 2009....

 

So open your eyes fuckers

Someone ban this clown. Fucking 12 year olds using the internet these days.

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #181 on: October 28, 2013, 01:10:03 pm »
Haven't seen this stat, do you have a link where I could find how the rest of our CBs fare in that regard?

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/26/Show/-Liverpool

If you hover your mouse over the AW figure for each players it shows the total number of aerial duels.

Considering Agger is our slowest CB, how does it make sense?

A high line allows you to compress the play and to press their midfield and to stop the through balls at source. As it goes I don't think there is a lot of difference between our centre backs in terms of pace and anyway they are all a lot quicker than Sami was when we successfully played a high line under Benitez.
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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #182 on: October 28, 2013, 01:11:14 pm »
Someone ban this clown. Fucking 12 year olds using the internet these days.

No lets keep him for the laugh.
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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #183 on: October 28, 2013, 01:14:42 pm »
http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/26/Show/-Liverpool

If you hover your mouse over the AW figure for each players it shows the total number of aerial duels.

Cheers, was looking at whoscored, but only saw the average per game, didn't know you had to hover over it :)

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #184 on: October 28, 2013, 01:15:25 pm »
Oh. I see. So if Anelka, after Skrtel whiffed on another header, actually put away a ball that any half decent striker would bury, or if they had capitalized after Skrtel headed directly to the feet of an opposing player at the top of our 18, or if they had taken their chance on the break after Skrtel passed to no one in particular in our attacking end, or if Skrtel was called for a pen on the pretty obvious take down in the box... 

Just as others are correctly pointing out that Agger shouldn't get a pass for the Stoke handball just because it didn't end up costing us anything - one shouldn't give  Skrtel a pass for his many as yet unpunished errors....
Calm down, you're getting too emotional.

He actually did so some good things on Saturday as well, believe it or not. Though I'm not going to start reeling them all off, but he did.

Now to pick you up one thing, that header that dipped over him, no-one would of gotten that, not even Agger. What made that a good piece was the Skrtel stuck with it, never gave up and ended up clearing off the line. He did well. Has done well and I believe - will continue to do well.
If Agger plays his way back into the team then fair do's, or Skrtel or Kolo and Sakho come to that, play themselves out of the team, then so be it, that's football - but people calling for Agger to be brought back in because they think he's better than Skrtel, need to take a step back. We're a winning team at the moment, things are on the up, morale and confidence is up - do you really want to start making changes to team right before such a big game? I know what I'd do.....
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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #185 on: October 28, 2013, 01:21:13 pm »
Calm down, you're getting too emotional.

He actually did so some good things on Saturday as well, believe it or not. Though I'm not going to start reeling them all off, but he did.

Now to pick you up one thing, that header that dipped over him, no-one would of gotten that, not even Agger. What made that a good piece was the Skrtel stuck with it, never gave up and ended up clearing off the line. He did well. Has done well and I believe - will continue to do well.
If Agger plays his way back into the team then fair do's, or Skrtel or Kolo and Sakho come to that, play themselves out of the team, then so be it, that's football - but people calling for Agger to be brought back in because they think he's better than Skrtel, need to take a step back. We're a winning team at the moment, things are on the up, morale and confidence is up - do you really want to start making changes to team right before such a big game? I know what I'd do.....

We changed the team to bring Cissoko and Johnson in. It didnt have an adverse effect there, because they're better players than the ones they replaced.

Should be the same with Agger and Skrtel.

Agger has his foibles, but in terms of that sweeper role in a back 3 he's so much more suited to it than Skrtel that it's not even a competition. Agger should be in there no questions asked because he's the only CB we have who can maximise the role and step out of defence to a decent degree.

Skrtel shouldnt be playing that role over Agger, not at all. If he's playing too well to be dropped, as in your opinion seems to be the case, then Agger should still come in but Skrtel should push out Toure or Sakho.

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #186 on: October 28, 2013, 02:13:56 pm »
We changed the team to bring Cissoko and Johnson in. It didnt have an adverse effect there, because they're better players than the ones they replaced.

Should be the same with Agger and Skrtel.

Agger has his foibles, but in terms of that sweeper role in a back 3 he's so much more suited to it than Skrtel that it's not even a competition. Agger should be in there no questions asked because he's the only CB we have who can maximise the role and step out of defence to a decent degree.

Skrtel shouldnt be playing that role over Agger, not at all. If he's playing too well to be dropped, as in your opinion seems to be the case, then Agger should still come in but Skrtel should push out Toure or Sakho.

We aren't playing with a sweeper though, we are playing a flat three at the back with the centre of the three being expected to be an aggressive dominant old fashioned centre half. We aren't playing with a Libero bringing the ball out because for me we aren't playing with a back five, it's a flat three with the full backs being the ones tasked with making the extra man(men) in midfield.

The centre backs role is to to sit in there and to give it to the full backs or the Lucas/Britton controller infront of the centre backs. For me if Agger is going to be heavily involved in the build up then he would be playing in the controller role in front of the centre backs and not as the central centre back. At the moment Sakho probably hasn't got the experience to play that central role so for me it's a straight choice between Sakho and Agger for the left sided centre back role. 
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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #187 on: October 28, 2013, 02:16:28 pm »
We aren't playing with a sweeper though, we are playing a flat three at the back with the centre of the three being expected to be an aggressive dominant old fashioned centre half. We aren't playing with a Libero bringing the ball out because for me we aren't playing with a back five, it's a flat three with the full backs being the ones tasked with making the extra man(men) in midfield.

The centre backs role is to to sit in there and to give it to the full backs or the Lucas/Britton controller infront of the centre backs. For me if Agger is going to be heavily involved in the build up then he would be playing in the controller role in front of the centre backs and not as the central centre back. At the moment Sakho probably hasn't got the experience to play that central role so for me it's a straight choice between Sakho and Agger for the left sided centre back role.

We're only playing that way because Skrtel fundamentally cannot do it.

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #188 on: October 28, 2013, 02:22:38 pm »
We changed the team to bring Cissoko and Johnson in. It didnt have an adverse effect there, because they're better players than the ones they replaced.

The system (a system I prefer) dictated who went where. Johnson, as is Johnson is a better attacking defender, than a defending defender and to be fair, a wing back position has been discussed may times for him. On the other side, Enrique is the same, yet can have more errant defencive displays, hard to believe, but he does and the recruitment of Cissoko is a massive uplift compared to Enrique.

One being an uplift in ability, the other playing in a position thats suits his abilities better.



Should be the same with Agger and Skrtel.

Agger has his foibles, but in terms of that sweeper role in a back 3 he's so much more suited to it than Skrtel that it's not even a competition. Agger should be in there no questions asked because he's the only CB we have who can maximise the role and step out of defence to a decent degree.

No questioins asked, really? You'd be happy to put Agger in there even if he was playing bad?

Our back 3 with Skrtel, Kolo and Sakho is a massive uplift in our defencive capabilities. Agger can fit in there as well, of course, but the two new additions and system change, for me, are more to do with what we had previously - which was a footballing back four, as opposed to a defencive back four. Enrique, Johnson, Agger are all players more comfortable with the ball at their feet, than defending it. Skrtel and Carragher were the does what it says on the tin, types.

So we bring in new players, change the system and look and feel more capable of defending against teams. Lest we forget last seasons Achilles heel and the reasons why, and to be fair to Rodgers - he's addressed the issue.

Skrtel currently finds himself in the team and he's in the team on merit and I believe, that whilst Rodgers will ask the back three to play the ball out, he predominantly wants a mobile solid defencive unit. Which currently, we have, so should we really start changing because we 'think' another player will do a better job, when as we stand right now, as a unit they are playing very well.

They have slip ups, but who doesn't, and the more they play together, the more the issues can be ironed out, and if not, then we can make a change, but we have to give the back 3 time to settle, or are we to make changes every time a player doesn't have a perfect game?


Skrtel shouldnt be playing that role over Agger, not at all. If he's playing too well to be dropped, as in your opinion seems to be the case, then Agger should still come in but Skrtel should push out Toure or Sakho.
You seem to be advocating the reinstatement of Agger regardless. That is unhealthy for the team and the squad and you do a disservice to those players currently holding those positions.

Players earn their place in this team, not due to misguided loyalty and as I've said before - that should go for everyone, regardless.
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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #189 on: October 28, 2013, 02:23:12 pm »
We're only playing that way because Skrtel fundamentally cannot do it.

If your centre backs are going to bring the ball out then you don't really need the 1-2 midfield though. The Lucas/Britton player becomes redundant and Rodgers formation doesn't really work.
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Offline BazC

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #190 on: October 28, 2013, 02:32:08 pm »
We're only playing that way because Skrtel fundamentally cannot do it.

Rodgers sees something in Skrtel to justify keeping Agger out though. And I think it is his him being a sweeper type - he certainly seemed to play that way to me, and I think a heat map confirmed it after the game. He was a bit deeper on average, than our other 2 CBs. That may well be because of things like them taking throw ins, and doing the fullback role as well, but I did notice Skrtel being fairly mobile across the back line at times.

In reality, the game was won in midfield and attack, and I guess it wasn't the best gauge of our defensive prowess. Arsenal will be a different story.

It comes down to the roles Rodgers wants. Does he want a libero when we have Lucas and Gerrard playing deep anyway? Agger's not a bad defender of course, but perhaps Skrtel brings certain skills which Rodgers sees as useful to have in there and which Agger doesn't have? Maybe it mostly is down to just man management, and keeping Skrtel in the team because he's justifying it. With Lucas out the 2 games prior to West Brom, it would have supported Agger coming in for example.

Anyway, I think Skrtel will start against Arsenal.
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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #191 on: October 28, 2013, 02:41:41 pm »
If your centre backs are going to bring the ball out then you don't really need the 1-2 midfield though. The Lucas/Britton player becomes redundant and Rodgers formation doesn't really work.

How does it?

If one CB steps up, then Lucas drops back. Or Cissoko/Johnson tucks in.

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #192 on: October 28, 2013, 02:47:40 pm »
So we should stick with the back 3 even if they keep making mistakes just to give them time to settle in, If that is the case then Agger would never have a chance to get back in the team no matter how well he did in training.


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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #193 on: October 28, 2013, 02:47:48 pm »
"sweeper" = Skrtel, Sakho, Toure, Agger
"libero" = Agger, Sakho, Toure, Skrtel

For the two "roles", the above would be my ranking.
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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #194 on: October 28, 2013, 02:59:51 pm »

Agger isnt out of the team because he was playing poorly, he wasnt. He's out of the team (and Skrtel in it) because he got injured. That's why Skrtel came in, Agger wasnt dropped. Not for footballing reasons, not for systemic reasons.

Skrtel remains in the team because Rodgers doesnt like to change something that's working. My point is whether its working quite as well as it could be.

The system in place is tailor made to get the best out of Agger, it would enable him to do all the good footballing stuff we like to see from him step forward with the ball, all that jazz. It also means that he's got two lads besides him who can help with the stuff he perhaps doesnt find as comfortable, like defending set peices and the like.

What is Skrtel bringing to that role that sets him apart? Becuase that's what Agger can (potentially) do.

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #195 on: October 28, 2013, 03:13:29 pm »
The fact that we haven't managed to keep a clean sheet suggests to me that its not working as well as it could be. If we lose to arsenal will it be changed then or still keep it the same?

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #196 on: October 28, 2013, 04:09:21 pm »
The fact that we haven't managed to keep a clean sheet suggests to me that its not working as well as it could be. If we lose to arsenal will it be changed then or still keep it the same?
You've got to look at the goals and chances we've conceded. Primarily set pieces, in which mostly Gerrard and Enrique have been unfocused, and shots from outside the box. Last season we (not the least Agger) had massive problems in the aerial duels with large forwards, and it looks much better now.
Personally, I think all four CBs have done well and I wouldn't protest any choice BR makes there. I have a feeling that Kolo's intense presence improves the focus of the whole defence.
Agger will get his chances, but Arsenal away is not the right time to change a well-working defence.

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #197 on: October 28, 2013, 04:15:07 pm »
My point is whether its working quite as well as it could be.

The system in place is tailor made to get the best out of Agger, it would enable him to do all the good footballing stuff we like to see from him step forward with the ball, all that jazz. It also means that he's got two lads besides him who can help with the stuff he perhaps doesnt find as comfortable, like defending set peices and the like.

What is Skrtel bringing to that role that sets him apart? Becuase that's what Agger can (potentially) do.

This cuts right to the point. It's the frustration of knowing we have a player more suited to the role on the bench.

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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #198 on: October 28, 2013, 04:26:20 pm »
The central point of the 3 CD formation is the one that has to stay put most of the time thus ensuring there is no gaping hole down the middle. To make the most of left footed Agger who is tremendous in regards to bringing the ball out / distributing it, as he is the best passing center back we have, he surely has to start left side. Playing there gives him the best chance to get forward I guess. Its up to Brendan to decide if Sakho is ready to hold the central pivot in the defense...if he can play the Skrtel role Agger comes in I think.
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Re: Daniel Agger
« Reply #199 on: October 28, 2013, 04:35:37 pm »
You've got to look at the goals and chances we've conceded. Primarily set pieces, in which mostly Gerrard and Enrique have been unfocused, and shots from outside the box. Last season we (not the least Agger) had massive problems in the aerial duels with large forwards, and it looks much better now.
Personally, I think all four CBs have done well and I wouldn't protest any choice BR makes there. I have a feeling that Kolo's intense presence improves the focus of the whole defence.
Agger will get his chances, but Arsenal away is not the right time to change a well-working defence.

But it doesnt look much better and we dont have a well working defence.