Topic: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.

[ShayGuevara]

We're not in a greater position league than before Rodgers came in and it's really the transfer committee who built a squad capable of pressing. Though, the squad is much better than before, i think it's pretty strong to be honest.

I'm obviously not talking about Current league position this early in the season as a comparison.

I agree regarding the transfer comittee though. My point is Rodgers left us in better nick than he found us, E2K feels he didn't.

[conman]

I'm obviously not talking about Current league position this early in the season as a comparison.

I agree regarding the transfer comittee though. My point is Rodgers left us in better nick than he found us, E2K feels he didn't.

I agree, we are in a much greater position now to push on.

[ShayGuevara]

I agree, we are in a much greater position now to push on.

In that regard maybe now is a good time to take a risk on a man who's proven to be able to do it. I'm not sure Rodgers had another 13/14 in him, Klopp might just have and more.

[conman]

In that regard maybe now is a good time to take a risk on a man who's proven to be able to do it. I'm not sure Rodgers had another 13/14 in him, Klopp might just have and more.

What sort of a risk?

[ShayGuevara]

What sort of a risk?

Changing manager. It's naive to think Klopp will automatically perfom better than Rodgers even if he's coming into a more settled side which only needs fine tuning rather than a total clear out and rebuild.

I think there is an expectancy for Klopp to come in and make us title challengers again, it's not as straight forward as that. Not even close.

I am hopeful and happy with Klopp but it's not going to be easy for him and no guarantees it's going to work out any better than Rodgers.

[Only Me]

Our absentee, football ignorant, moneyball owners appoint a young, unproven manager, who hadn't, and still hasn't won a thing. Not sure what people expected. I think he did well to last as long as he did.

For me, Brendan seemed a decent chap, albeit one who loved a sound bite. Tikka Takka, death by football,  blah blah blah. At least, however, he seemed to have a plan or philosophy, even if it was straight out of the Big Barca Book of tactics.

That's all vanished as he's come under pressure. One of the things that struck me about the last year or so of his reign was the complete lack of any cohesive or consistent plan. I had no idea what kind of team we were trying to be, and I honestly don't think Brendan did either.

But that's what happens when you take a punt of that sort. Very few work out well in the end. Most promising young managers fall by the wayside, as promising talent is wont to do in all walks of life. If you hang your hat on that kind of recruitment process, then you only find out if you're right when it comes to the crunch. And unfortunately, Brendan failed each time any real pressure came on.

Not his fault, he just wasn't capable of performing the type of miracle fluke required to make money ball successful, and I wish him well in the future.

I'm genuinely excited at the prospect of Klopp, but I have a nagging doubt that the powers at be will either fuck up the recruitment process and he won't end up coming, or they'll upset him with their tinkering and he'll fuck off early. He has a much bigger personality than Brendan, and a much more successful track record, and he doesn't strike me as the type of lad who'll shut up and toe the line like Brendan did, just because a midget with a motorbike tells him to.

And more power to him for that.

I just really hope that we aren't stuck in some sort of karma-related loop here.

Moores, Coco, H&G, Cecil, Ayre. That's an impressive list of snide little twats by anyone's standards. 20+ years of management by selfishness, incompetence, and ego. Which just happens to have coincided with a barren spell in terms of success. Who'd have thunk it?

The treatment that Rafa and Kenny got, and the way half of the "fan" base seemed to think that it was ok in each case. Wow.

Some would say we deserved Hodgson for that lot, and I for one wouldn't disagree with them. Brendan's appointment was just a further bi-product of a flawed and failing management structure, one which I have absolutely no faith in.

Klopp would at least shake the thing up, and ruffle a few feathers both inside and outside the club, I think. And even if it doesn't last very long, I for one will buckle in and try to enjoy the ride.

[steveeastend]

They what now?!

They are not to blame IMO. It was the right thing to do to sack Rodgers, a little bit too late though..

[JackWard33]

They are not to blame IMO. It was the right thing to do to sack Rodgers, a little bit too late though..

You know he was on the TC right?? So he's both to not to blame in your world

Anyway the idea that one man is the source of our problems is ridiculous and classic managerial scape goating by the board - which is fine it's what tends to happen in football.
But they should be accountable.
When did someone from FSG last give an interview about the club, it's direction and their plans for it?

[Timbo's Goals]

. My point is Rodgers left us in better nick than he found us, E2K feels he didn't.

I interpreted E2K's statement about the squad deteriorating under his watch in a different way. Perhaps E2K can clear up what he meant but I took it that he was referencing the departure of Suarez, Agger, Gerrard, Reina, Sterling - all top of the range proven players - none of whom to date appear to have been adequately replaced.

In many ways - as I've been banging on about for some time now - it speaks volumes of Rodgers efforts [despite the transfer monies available to him from some of those departures] that coupled with the grievous long term injuries to three other proven top class players - Sturridge, Flanagan and Enrique - Rodgers has actually done as well as he has to keep the show on the road - however wobbly that roadshow has been!!!

 

[conman]

You know he was on the TC right?? So he's both to not to blame in your world

Anyway the idea that one man is the source of our problems is ridiculous and classic managerial scape goating by the board - which is fine it's what tends to happen in football.
But they should be accountable.
When did someone from FSG last give an interview about the club, it's direction and their plans for it?

It's difficult to imagine Ayre doing any scouting or choosing who to sign.
His role primarily would have been to agree to purchases, negotiate and sign cheques. So point the finger at Ayre for failed purchases. Mickratian, Kolyplanka, Willian, etc. (fuck knows how to spell those!)

The TC by n large bought well, Rodgers by n large didn't buy well. Once the players were bought, it's up to Rodgers & Co to get the best out of what he has on the pitch, to train them, to instill a philosophy, confidence and to get points on the board. If he fails to perform, which he did for the latter part of his tenure, there's only one option remaining unfortunately.

[Timbo's Goals]

It's difficult to imagine Ayre doing any scouting or choosing who to sign.
His role primarily would have been to agree to purchases, negotiate and sign cheques. So point the finger at Ayre for failed purchases. Mickratian, Kolyplanka, Willian, etc. (fuck knows how to spell those!)

The TC by n large bought well, Rodgers by n large didn't buy well. Once the players were bought, it's up to Rodgers & Co to get the best out of what he has on the pitch, to train them, to instill a philosophy, confidence and to get points on the board. If he fails to perform, which he did for the latter part of his tenure, there's only one option remaining unfortunately.

That option is to take balanced cognizence of the real extent of that failure and scrutinize exactly why it has happened. Something which the broader Liverpool fan base manifestly were not prepared to do in their blood lust for change, instead choosing to overlook Rodgers 18 months when he amassed more points than any other fucker and the colossal grievous impact on his team when he lost Suarez and Sturridge and the club/Rodgers failed to adequately replace them..

FSG on the other hand clearly had a more Machievalan [spell  ] agenda which was to use the downturn as a window of opportunity to bring in the man they originally approached in 2012 and have clearly coveted all along.

[JackWard33]

The TC by n large bought well, Rodgers by n large didn't buy well.

So when he was part of the TC he bought well and when he wasn't (when was that by the way?) - he didnt?

[Zeb]

Moores, Coco, H&G, Cecil, Ayre. That's an impressive list of snide little twats by anyone's standards. 20+ years of management by selfishness, incompetence, and ego. Which just happens to have coincided with a barren spell in terms of success. Who'd have thunk it?

Just a bit of perspective. Since Moores became chairmen in 1991, our 'barren spell'..

3 x FA Cup
4 x League Cup
1 x European Cup
1 x UEFA Cup
2 x Super Cup

That's more trophies than most clubs have won in their entire histories. During our 'barren spell'.

[conman]

That option is to take balanced cognizence of the real extent of that failure and scrutinize exactly why it has happened. Something which the broader Liverpool fan base manifestly were not prepared to do in their blood lust for change choosing to overlook Rodgers 18 months when he amassed more points than any other fucker and the colossal grievous impact on his team when he lost Suarez and Sturridge and the club/Rodgers failed to adequately replace them..

FSG on the other hand clearly had a more Machievalan [spell  ] agenda which was to use the downturn as a window of opportunity to bring in the man they originally approached in 2012 and have clearly coveted all along.

They apparently approached Klopp before Rodgers and he said no, rightly so. But yes, Rodgers was the man they chose and one of their top men all along. This for me was a huge error on their part, regardless of what was to follow. The club lacked experienced football men throughout and their policy was to reduce the wage bill by letting go of experienced players, in favour of youthful talent. They really needed to either get a DOF who knew what he was at, a manager who has a vision as well as the ability to fully carry it out (i'd argue Rodgers had the former), or both.

FSG have spent over £300 million learning on the job, pursuing novel strategies in a world they know little about.
FSG have alienated themselves from the fans for no reason.
Rodgers has spent most of his time here learning on the job, even we as fans could clearly identify some of them within a few weeks.
The TC committee was a compromise and its existence caused friction with the manager.

There are too many rookie mistakes happening at a club like Liverpool. It's quite miraculous that we are in a relatively healthy position right now. Again, without making this about Rodgers as i'm trying not to point fingers, FSG should have aggressively pursued ambition, intelligence and experience from the outset and built a spine within the club.

[conman]

So when he was part of the TC he bought well and when he wasn't (when was that by the way?) - he didnt?

I'm looking at the profile of players they both reportedly identified, regardless of when he was or wasn't in the TC.
Why did we create a TC anyway?

[Timbo's Goals]

They apparently approached Klopp before Rodgers and he said no, rightly so. But yes, Rodgers was the man they chose and one of their top men all along. This for me was a huge error on their part, regardless of what was to follow. The club lacked experienced football men throughout and their policy was to reduce the wage bill by letting go of experienced players, in favour of youthful talent. They really needed to either get a DOF who knew what he was at, a manager who has a vision as well as the ability to fully carry it out (i'd argue Rodgers had the former), or both.

FSG have spent over £300 million learning on the job, pursuing novel strategies in a world they know little about.
FSG have alienated themselves from the fans for no reason.
Rodgers has spent most of his time here learning on the job, even we as fans could clearly identify some of them within a few weeks.
The TC committee was a compromise and its existence caused friction with the manager.

There are too many rookie mistakes happening at a club like Liverpool. It's quite miraculous that we are in a relatively healthy position right now. Again, without making this about Rodgers as i'm trying not to point fingers, FSG should have aggressively pursued ambition, intelligence and experience from the outset and built a spine within the club.

Good post .

Very little there to contest. Insightful stuff which I agree with almost totally.

The Klopp pursuit since 2012 tells its own tale in that Rodgers was clearly the guy FSG felt came closest to the Klopp model they really wanted. Now that the real McCoy is available they clearly see him as the panacea - or perhaps the pan 'o' scouse  - who can take the club to where it wants to go.

It means that the there was never going to be an option once Klopp was available and Rodgers began to falter as he has clearly done.

That said - taking Klopp out of the equation since fans during this past six months or so have not been privvy to the inner Machievelan desires and machinations of the owners - the mass witch-hunting of the manager who for 18 months blah blah blah is no less gruesome a spectacle.

[AndyInVA]

Confirmed in the Telegraph today

Gary Mac and Sean O Driscoll released


although apprently Mac will be offered a more junor appointment and its up to him if he wants it but it wont be first team staff

[jase42001]

They apparently approached Klopp before Rodgers

Wasn’t Martinez approached before Rodgers?

[conman]

Good post .

Very little there to contest. Insightful stuff which I agree with almost totally.

The Klopp pursuit since 2012 tells its own tale in that Rodgers was clearly the guy FSG felt came closest to the Klopp model they really wanted. Now that the real McCoy is available they clearly see him as the panacea - or perhaps the pan 'o' scouse  - who can take the club to where it wants to go.

It means that the there was never going to be an option once Klopp was available and Rodgers began to falter as he has clearly done.

That said - taking Klopp out of the equation since fans during this past six months or so have not been privvy to the inner Machievelan desires and machinations of the owners - the mass witch-hunting of the manager who for 18 months blah blah blah is no less gruesome a spectacle.

Agreed.

With all this talk about Rodgers vs TC buys. We should be curious of what the TC's remit was, as they seemed to be buying players that suited a particular philosophy (young, talented, quick, passing ability, pressing ability). If the player lists are correct, it illustrates that they didn't seem to waver from this player profile, whereas Rodgers signings are a bit more erratic and perhaps designed to patch holes in the squad. Ideally they would be both on the same wavelength, both pursuing the same type of player, upgrading positions & planning for the future.

I think Brendan wasn't fired in the summer as Klopp wasn't available, nor was Ancelotti.
I think Brendan was fired last weekend as Klopp is now available.
As you rightly inferred, they viewed Brendan as a Klopp light. Though they turned to Klopp himself when it became clear that it wasn't working out anymore.
I believe the TC have built the type of squad that they would have agreed with Brendan when he himself signed (passing & pressing).
Which happens to be very closely aligned to what Klopp would want.
Dortmund and Southampton are clearly clubs that FSG would have profiled, we are thus far a bastardised version of both. They might eventually crack it.

[Chakan]

For whatever reason the TC and Brendan didn't see eye to eye on a lot of things apparently. I think the fault lies on both sides of the fence. The TC went after stats based players and people they thought would be an asset to the team not always working out, Brendan went for the British model and people he felt would be compliment what he wanted to implement (although I think towards the end of this tenure he completely abandoned what made Brendan well Brendan).

It's easier to get rid of 1 person than it is 3 or 4. I do think Brendan had a few opportunities to turn it around and it didn't quite come off for him. With Klopp being available now and seemingly on his way to Liverpool today, I don't think anything could have saved Rodgers going forward. I guess if we had started like a house on fire, winning most of our games and playing decent football the chop would have been delayed, unfortunately we all know the football that has been served up this season so far.

We'll have to see how Klopp deals with the TC , but apparently he's looked at the setup and believes he can work with it, if that is indeed the case maybe for the first time in 4 years we'll have people behind the scenes that are on the same page.

[conman]

Wasn’t Martinez approached before Rodgers?

yea, and Klopp.

[AndyInVA]

Wasn’t Martinez approached before Rodgers?

there was a picture of Martinez and John Henry in florida before Brendan was appointed

it was clear FSG spoke to Martinez

[Persephone]

Confirmed in the Telegraph today

Gary Mac and Sean O Driscoll released

Gary Mac leaving is sad, I think he had something to offer the Club. But Klopp probably is the new boss and is entitled to pick his own staff.

[Timbo's Goals]

Wasn’t Martinez approached before Rodgers?

That was leaked out at the time.

I only became aware of the Klopp 2012 approach last night. It seems to provide a clear indication that Klopp is the manager that FSG wanted all along.

[Zeb]

Wasn’t Martinez approached before Rodgers?

Klopp was first approached back when they were getting rid of Hodgson in 2010 (supposedly he said 'no', but suggested Rangnick). If he'd wanted to leave Dortmund, he could well have been their first managerial appointment here.

[redmark]

Wasn’t Martinez approached before Rodgers?

No, they were approached during the same process. Whether we met Martinez first or not doesn't really mean anything.

[Loo Pan]

Wasn’t Martinez approached before Rodgers?

They spoke to him, but never made an offer, is the official line from FSG

[Eeyore]

It's difficult to imagine Ayre doing any scouting or choosing who to sign.
His role primarily would have been to agree to purchases, negotiate and sign cheques. So point the finger at Ayre for failed purchases. Mickratian, Kolyplanka, Willian, etc. (fuck knows how to spell those!)

The TC by n large bought well, Rodgers by n large didn't buy well. Once the players were bought, it's up to Rodgers & Co to get the best out of what he has on the pitch, to train them, to instill a philosophy, confidence and to get points on the board. If he fails to perform, which he did for the latter part of his tenure, there's only one option remaining unfortunately.

Where I disagree is that the TC bought well. They may of signed on the whole good players but that isn't really what they are there for. The role of a TC/DoF is to provide the coach with players that fit with how he wants to play the game and who compliment the players already at the Club. Far too often the TC brought in players who necessitated the manager changing his formation and even the way he wanted to play the game.

It is clear how Rodgers wants to play the game a solid traditional back 4, a Britton type distributor in front, two hard working cemtre mids ideally an athletic presser and a ball player. In front of that a front 3 with the wider two being very very good in one in one situation's.

You look at Rodgers time at the Club and the closest he came to that was during the marvellous spell in 13-14. We had Flanno as an athletic defensively accomplished left back, Gerrard in the Britton role, Hendo in the Allen role, Coutinho in the Sigurddson role and Sturridge and Suarez splitting with Sterling playing high up in the centre.

Far too many of the TC signings simply didn't fit with that way of playing Can for Moreno for instance has no defensive instincts, Can is too small to play as a centre back but too immobile to play in midfield, Markovic is an attacking player who is very poor in one one situations and so on.

Then on the other hand we had a manager with no track record in signing players continually raiding Southampton because they are pretty much the only team who played a similar 4-3-3 formation. What we desperately needed was an old head to oversee the whole thing and bring in better players capable of playing in a 4-3-3 instead of the mish mash that resulted in more formations than a rhythmic gymnastics team.

[steveeastend]

You know he was on the TC right?? So he's both to not to blame in your world

Anyway the idea that one man is the source of our problems is ridiculous and classic managerial scape goating by the board - which is fine it's what tends to happen in football.
But they should be accountable.
When did someone from FSG last give an interview about the club, it's direction and their plans for it?

The thing is that you have to consider where we were coming from... As the TC probably didn't do a stellar job I think they di a decent one compared what happened the years before. The Carroll disaster, and this was probably one of the worst transfers in english football history was crying out for consequences. For that, FSG tried to play it save and I really do think that the record of the TC to be way better than the one of Rodgers when it comes to transfers from what we've known so far.

Rodgers overplayed it in a way that HE was actually the one constantly blaming the TC for not having the success needed. But that wasn't what he signed up for in the first place right? He knew that we aren't Real or anything like that for being out of the CL for that long and for not having some sort of a trustworthy record to get to this level sooner than later. Rodgers used the TC in public, not only once, AND the owners, for shiffting the entire blame away from him, especiall round january last season, refusing to even TRY to make the best form what he was given. But the truth is that we were, and still are, miles away from giving a manager what he needs while Rodgers was asking for the impossible in order to stay in a safe place.

Sorry, I am glad the owners were not too blind for being fooled this time.

[jase42001]

yea, and Klopp.

Yep, in my (limited opinion) it pointed me in the direction of our owners i.e. low maintenance managers who could be manipulated with limited funds.

I am not saying that BR wasn't the right decision but it was an understandable one from a commercial stance.

Big risk, and to me it looked like the start of "dark days".

Klopp is a positive step, and his track record speaks volumes still for a relatively young manager, but it still comes with risk.

It will be interesting to see how financially he will be backed by the current owners, and I think that a kneejerk decision was needed.  For the match attenders (the actual bread and butter) how long would it be before we saw a diminishing match attendance?  This I believe is the crux of FSG's future plan, and who better than a crowd pleaser/showman to have as your spokesman?

I really hope (if appointed) we back Klopp, but (more importantly) I also hope that he is backed financially.

Best of luck Brendan, and I wish you luck with your future development.

[jooneyisdagod]

Ultimately Rodgers had to go. Sad to say that the promise that he showed initially, he could never fulfill at Liverpool. Part of that at least is his own doing. His constant squabbles with the rest of the TC resulting in the shambles of the transfer system we had since 13/14, where he appears to have earnt the right to spend big again on average to good English or premier league players on the back of that wildly successful and hugely memorable year even if it did end in tears, hurt him and the club greatly.

Is the system at fault then? I'm not so sure to speak the truth. I think the system isn't perfect, but it's an untested system given how dysfunctional it was due to the manager's seemingly fundamental objections to it thus far. I would be interested to see how Klopp operates within the same system, because given his lack of basic objection to the model, I think we might get the chance to really work out where it might be failing us. One thing the TC fiasco reveals is that BR seemed to have an ego that convinced him that he could turn lead to gold and this wasn't the best idea given how challenging it is at the top of the league and it appears BR hugely underestimated the quality of player required at a club like Liverpool initially. And when it dawned on him the quality of player required, it appeared his extremely poor eye for talent in combination with the aforementioned ego, which with its timely boost in the form of the title chase in 13/14, simply got in the way leading to the aforementioned clashes with the TC.

But recruitment is one part of it, I think the other reason why Brendan was let go was because he was simply not getting enough out of the squad at hand. I think the success of 13/14 bought him the 70 odd million we spent this summer, but with it came the pressure of identifying where he was going wrong and working out a way of rectifying it. And yet all summer, he used his second lease of life to play his favourites, players that he bought in a system that has long been his favoured system and the results were going nowhere. To go forward, Brendan went right back and when that did not work, he appeared to go back to another system that was nothing but a temporary fix and while our performances improved marginally, they did not improve anywhere near enough. But ultimately, the betrayed his current lack of ideas. It betrayed that Rodgers was stumped as to what to do about this side. And his press conferences about rebuilding and playing to par only confirmed that to me. His press conferences where he appeared to be taking the pressure of himself and lowering expectations only confirmed my suspicions.

And that's why it was right to let him go when we did. He'll no doubt learn from this experience, but unless he lets go of his ego and introspects deeply for a period, I fear for his sake that his potential will remain just that. And while I wanted Brendan gone, I would have said Klopp would be a dream appointment, perhaps a step too far even. And yet, it looks like he might be coming here. And that alone provides a massive shot in the arm to the club, to its fans and to everyone in the team as well. This might seem silly but think to the derby pre-match thread. One of THE biggest games of any season, there were barely 20 pages before the start of the game. And yet the thread about Klopp being our next manager has nearly hit 250 pages. Suddenly, the apathy has gone and the enthusiasm is back. That says all one needs to know.

[Le_Mot_Juste]

Changing manager. It's naive to think Klopp will automatically perfom better than Rodgers even if he's coming into a more settled side which only needs fine tuning rather than a total clear out and rebuild.

I think there is an expectancy for Klopp to come in and make us title challengers again, it's not as straight forward as that. Not even close.

I am hopeful and happy with Klopp but it's not going to be easy for him and no guarantees it's going to work out any better than Rodgers.

How is it a "risk" when we're in 10th and basically looking at finishing 5th under Rodgers? "Risk" would imply there's something we're risking. If Klopp finishes outside the top 4, then it's a neutral outcome. If he breaks into the top 4, then it's a positive outcome. The only way it's a "risk" is if we think there's a chance Klopp will lead us to the bottom half of the table, or relegation...Which...We don't.

Swapping a manager who has won nothing, for one that's won two league titles in a league more heavily dominated by 1 side than practically any other major league in Europe is the opposite of a "risk". It's a positive step towards progression.

[steveeastend]

It is clear how Rodgers wants to play the game a solid traditional back 4, a Britton type distributor in front, two hard working cemtre mids ideally an athletic presser and a ball player. In front of that a front 3 with the wider two being very very good in one in one situation's.

You look at Rodgers time at the Club and the closest he came to that was during the marvellous spell in 13-14. We had Flanno as an athletic defensively accomplished left back, Gerrard in the Britton role, Hendo in the Allen role, Coutinho in the Sigurddson role and Sturridge and Suarez splitting with Sterling playing high up in the centre.

First I don't think there was something "clear" so see from the various ways Rodgers had our team playing. To me he hidded behind his speeches which changed from season to the other.

The team he almost won us the title with was nothing he had build with an intention behind it, too may of those players around before him and the system a "special", tailormade accident for finding the right spot for Gerrard during his last full season. Fair enough.

The thing is though that the chaos, and that's probably a polite statement, after this season was something I rarely witnessed on this level so far. Rodgers trial and error jumping from one idea to the next one had nothing to do with professional football nor trying to build something unique long term. Too quick he dismissed one plan for the next one just to go back to where he started from.

If the only way for having a team work is an adventerous 3 at the back after three full seasons than the only conclusion there is that this job was way too big for him. And that's all it was. At the beginning, and after the title challenge he escaped from that by playing it big to the press and probably within the club. But he couldn't find a reasonable way to manage this squad for consitent results, no matter which players he was given. Alonso won't come back, nor Suarez.

Overall he had no plan, sorry to say this cause I was one of those who really believed in him from the way he presented himself for some time... after all though, he didn't know what he was doing football wise, not to the level required, being a nice coach isn't enough, which I think, realistically he has been for the players.

[McMahon]

We can go round in circles regarding BR and the TC. What we now have to get right is the way forward. If Klopp does arrive as expected. IMO he should say to the TC i need x, y, z players. Then the TC should come up with a list of players who fit the requirements. Then Kloppe should run the rule over them if he fancies them he states to sign them, Ayre comes out of the cupboard and signs the check. I can't see it working another way.
 

[faisfais]

WONDERFUL Post! Just to add some numbers to your thesis that I find damning to Rodgers' ability to build a attacking squad:

Houllier’s best season (2000/01) saw over 120 goals scored across all competitions. Similarly, Brendan Rodgers’ best season saw over 100 goals scored, albeit at a far greater rate (2.6 per game vs. 2.0). At some point after these high points they stumbled as they attempted to replenish their squads. Misjudgements were made, the pressure heightened as a consequence. That pressure gave way to negativity, which proved to be a false economy. Houllier’s team scored a single goal or less in 21 of his last 38 League games in charge (the 2003/04 season, basically), or 55%. Last season, 2014/15, Brendan Rodgers’ Liverpool achieved an eerily similar tally of 22 out of 38 League games with a single goal or less (58%), and that's with a far leakier defence. This season, that run has only worsened. In 11 games in all competitions, his side only scored more than once on one occasion, at home to an Aston Villa side that’s already beginning to look doomed. A moment of Coutinho brilliance was required at Stoke, an offside goal at home to Bournemouth, penalties to see off Carlisle.

Brendan Rodgers was in charge of 122 Premier League Games. In those games Liverpool scored 232 goals. 91 of those goals (or ~39%) were scored by SAS (Suarez and Sturridge). If you add Gerrard, Coutinho, & Sterling to that - it contributes to 153 of the goals. This means that in his 3+ years tenure at Liverpool FIVE players contributed to 66% of all goals scored in the Premier League.

[Funky_Gibbons]

WONDERFUL Post! Just to add some numbers to your thesis that I find damning to Rodgers' ability to build a attacking squad:

Brendan Rodgers was in charge of 122 Premier League Games. In those games Liverpool scored 232 goals. 91 of those goals (or ~39%) were scored by SAS (Suarez and Sturridge). If you add Gerrard, Coutinho, & Sterling to that - it contributes to 153 of the goals. This means that in his 3+ years tenure at Liverpool FIVE players contributed to 66% of all goals scored in the Premier League.

So that is damning statistic based on Rodgers ability to build an attacking squad rather than of those five players, three have been sold or left and one has been a perma-crock for last 12-months and none have been adequately replaced, whether by Rodgers or the much fabled transfer committee.   

[ThePoolMan]

WONDERFUL Post! Just to add some numbers to your thesis that I find damning to Rodgers' ability to build a attacking squad:

Brendan Rodgers was in charge of 122 Premier League Games. In those games Liverpool scored 232 goals. 91 of those goals (or ~39%) were scored by SAS (Suarez and Sturridge). If you add Gerrard, Coutinho, & Sterling to that - it contributes to 153 of the goals. This means that in his 3+ years tenure at Liverpool FIVE players contributed to 66% of all goals scored in the Premier League.

And none of them were the ones he himself wanted to sign.

[Chakan]

WONDERFUL Post! Just to add some numbers to your thesis that I find damning to Rodgers' ability to build a attacking squad:

Brendan Rodgers was in charge of 122 Premier League Games. In those games Liverpool scored 232 goals. 91 of those goals (or ~39%) were scored by SAS (Suarez and Sturridge). If you add Gerrard, Coutinho, & Sterling to that - it contributes to 153 of the goals. This means that in his 3+ years tenure at Liverpool FIVE players contributed to 66% of all goals scored in the Premier League.

Honestly I don't think it's that much of a surprise or a damning stat. I mean look at the top teams in England, Man City, Chelsea, United, Arsenal now tell me which team has the goals spread around the team?

I think in City you'll find Aguero is responsible for a lot of the goals, Arsenal probably Sanchez and Giroud, Chelsea maybe Costa and Hazard? Take 5 attacking players from each team and they will probably be responsible for a lot of goals from those teams.

It's more that Suarez and Sturridge weren't replaced adequately rather than just having 5 players responsible for the lion share of goals, for me anyway.

[faisfais]

Honestly I don't think it's that much of a surprise or a damning stat. I mean look at the top teams in England, Man City, Chelsea, United, Arsenal now tell me which team has the goals spread around the team?

I think in City you'll find Aguero is responsible for a lot of the goals, Arsenal probably Sanchez and Giroud, Chelsea maybe Costa and Hazard? Take 5 attacking players from each team and they will probably be responsible for a lot of goals from those teams.

It's more that Suarez and Sturridge weren't replaced adequately rather than just having 5 players responsible for the lion share of goals, for me anyway.

I am sorry my point was not clear. As a team with only the fifth highest budget, I  understand the limitations based on Brendan Rodgers in signing a marquee striker up front. My point is that the ONLY way Brendan could have succeeded at Liverpool was to make the team greater than the sum of their parts, i.e. have the entire squad contributing to goals and thereby reducing the impact of an inevitable defection (Suarez to Barcelona, Sterling to Man City) &| injuries (Sturridge in 2014/2015, Henderson in 2015/2016). Based on the goal distribution statistics I quoted, it indicates that he was not successful in that pursuit.

I think Brendan Rodgers' position with FSG went to the point of no return with his comments on player quality after Aston Villa win.

[E2K]

I haven't time to reply to E2K's post in detail but one point I will make is that Rodgers has left us with a stronger squad than he picked up.

My point is Rodgers left us in better nick than he found us, E2K feels he didn't.

I interpreted E2K's statement about the squad deteriorating under his watch in a different way. Perhaps E2K can clear up what he meant but I took it that he was referencing the departure of Suarez, Agger, Gerrard, Reina, Sterling - all top of the range proven players - none of whom to date appear to have been adequately replaced.

Spot on Timbo. I actually agree with you SG, I reckon he has left a better squad behind than the one he inherited (given that it doesn't include Charlie Adam, Stewart Downing and Andy Carroll for a start) but at the same time he also undoubtedly presided over a deterioration in quality from around the mid-point of his reign as the players Timbo mentions (all of whom were inherited) left and weren't adequately replaced. The giant proviso there is that there was nothing he could do about Suárez leaving or the likes of Gerrard and Reina ageing (three of the best players to ever pull on the shirt), but at the same time very few of his signings (especially if Sturridge, Coutinho and Sakho were the brainchild of others) made enough of a mark. Which is not to say that the new Liverpool manager doesn't have the raw materials to be successful in the short-term because I think he does.