Author Topic: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1  (Read 10224 times)

Offline Corkboy

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Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« on: December 9, 2014, 10:34:33 pm »
In the summer of 2011, Man City spent massive money on one Sergio Aguero. The following season was their first in the European Cup for a long time. They finished third in their group, and went on to go out of the Europa League after two rounds. Then they won the league.

I'm not saying we're going to win the league. In fact, I'm pretty sure we won't. But calm the fuck down. A generation of supporters who seem to think we have a divine right to be at the business end of the Champions League. This isn't even the first time Basel have knocked us out of a European competition with a draw at our place.

I'll leave it to others to discuss the game.

Offline Hinesy

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #1 on: December 9, 2014, 10:36:13 pm »
Amen to that.
We don't have a divine right to 'magical' nights at Anfield, and we are without 193 of our main strikers. To be honest, we look perfectly exactly the same as we have been against many teams this season so it was no great surprise that we played that way. Sad but there we are.
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #2 on: December 9, 2014, 11:02:10 pm »
Although...

Ok, I want to talk about the sending off, just because I don't think I have ever seen the like of it, and it was entirely the fault of Markovic.

You see flailing arms all the time in football, and elbows too. At corners, in tussles, side by side running, all the time. This was none of those things. Markovic had won the ball. Safari had been hassling him, maybe even fouled him but Markovic was free and clear, his aggressor having been shown, literally, a clean pair of heels and our boy was striding into open country. And then, for reasons best known to himself, Markovic took a blatant look back, in front of the ref, and then swung his arm back, in front of the ref. I'm not sure but it looked like there was some contact, possibly even a fingernail or two. Fingernail because the guy was at arms length.

The ball was an equal distance the other side of Markovic. The Basel player was not actively challenging for the ball, or even for Markovic. I'd argue Safari could have ignored the swing and the ref would still have had to send him off. As far as my understanding of the rules go, Markovic may as well have stopped, turned around and swung for Safari. You can't take a swing at a player, even backhand, when it's completely out of context with the surrounding play. Violent conduct. Red card.

What irritates me most about it is that Markovic didn't, couldn't have gained any advantage from what he did. You can forgive a player who drags down a goalbound opponent, or goes in too hard when the ball is relatively close but what Markovic did was petulant and silly and utterly incomprehensible.

Offline Azi

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #3 on: December 9, 2014, 11:41:55 pm »
Positives we can take from the game - Lazar Markovich looked fantastic in his 15 minute cameo his direct approach was everything that we've been lacking so far this season.

First half our tactics were get the ball give it to sterling who would wait 15 minutes for the rest of his teammates to catch up and then look for a pass by that time Basle had formed a Swiss wall and cleared the danger with Lazar he was direct and just ran at the Basle defense and caused them to be all at sea only problem then was that with no striker upfront we had no end product.

Hopefully Brendan will have seen that for us to play this way we need pace and lazar brings that.As Corkboy said the blame isn't at the feet of the Basle player or the ref its at Lazars, he had already won the ball and was starting another attack whether their was minimal contact or not he shouldn't have put himself in that position,we know refs in Europe are card friendly so he's got to be a bit smarter.

Anyway another positive for me was Lovren who looked much better i don't know if it was having Lucas in front of him or having the ability to pass to someone other than Gerrard it free'd him up. it's maybe me grabbing at the smallest bit of hope but tonight's performance was good he had 3/4 tackles in the second half which he got spot on

i'll let others dive into it further but hopefully today was the last time we seen Gerrard and Lambert start upfront in a game, neither suit each others game they both create chances for each other but are too slow to react which is a shame, bring Gerrard on for the last 30 minutes and the defenders are a bit more stretched giving him more space etc but playing him behind Lambert from the start doesn't work for me.

Allen for me should have been taken off for Couthino, he brought nothing in the second half (or the first half tbf)  defensively for me with lucas left on, granted Lucas had already been booked but most of Lucas games he tends to get booked but still manages to get away with giving away free kicks.

and a final note  Srktel, after 90 minutes still provided  more movement as a center forward than most of our strikers have in the last 10 games  got to be worth starting him upfront against united :D

Offline ashleyrose-66

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #4 on: December 9, 2014, 11:42:05 pm »
I actually thought we seemed to come together and show far more spirit when we had 10 men.

Yes, I know it is a silly suggestion to make, but it really did seem like the players (and maybe Rodgers) decided that we had nothing to lose by actually going for it when we were a man down.

It was a poor performance tonight.  Especially in the first half, where we were just too slow.  Our play was predictable and it simply didn't ask any questions of Basle at all.

The second half was different.  Even with 10 men, we were prepared to take risks, to get at Basel and try to ask questions of them.   Their most difficult period was in the last 15 minutes.  The 75 minutes before then was pretty non-eventful.

The thing that puzzled me was that we had no striker on the bench in a "must win" game!   It appears Borini is fit and available, so I do find it staggering that he was not on the bench.  What would have happened if Lambert had gone off injured at 0-0 or us 1-0 up in the first half?  No direct change, so a change of formation would have been required.

We also never had the opportunity to go with 2 strikers at any stage (if required) today.

I don't want to speculate on if there is or isn't something between Rodgers and Borini, but not having a recognised striker on the bench and having a £4m "plan B" striker as your only striking option leaves more questions than answers.

On the whole, we have won just 1 game in 6.  We don't deserve a place in the knock-out phase of this competition.

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2014, 02:01:21 pm »
Although...

Ok, I want to talk about the sending off, just because I don't think I have ever seen the like of it, and it was entirely the fault of Markovic.

You see flailing arms all the time in football, and elbows too. At corners, in tussles, side by side running, all the time. This was none of those things. Markovic had won the ball. Safari had been hassling him, maybe even fouled him but Markovic was free and clear, his aggressor having been shown, literally, a clean pair of heels and our boy was striding into open country. And then, for reasons best known to himself, Markovic took a blatant look back, in front of the ref, and then swung his arm back, in front of the ref. I'm not sure but it looked like there was some contact, possibly even a fingernail or two. Fingernail because the guy was at arms length.

The ball was an equal distance the other side of Markovic. The Basel player was not actively challenging for the ball, or even for Markovic. I'd argue Safari could have ignored the swing and the ref would still have had to send him off. As far as my understanding of the rules go, Markovic may as well have stopped, turned around and swung for Safari. You can't take a swing at a player, even backhand, when it's completely out of context with the surrounding play. Violent conduct. Red card.

What irritates me most about it is that Markovic didn't, couldn't have gained any advantage from what he did. You can forgive a player who drags down a goalbound opponent, or goes in too hard when the ball is relatively close but what Markovic did was petulant and silly and utterly incomprehensible.

My take on it Corky was that he was trying to hand off the player, as you see hundreds of times in a game. I just think that Safari was slightly further away from him than he thought, and that's why his arm flailed into thin air. I've actually done a similar thing playing Rugby when I was a nipper, but I was travelling a little faster than the opposition player trying to track me, in my memory bank it was Usain Bolt speed, and I completely missed, lost my balance and went on my arse. I've watched it a dozen times since, and I just can't see the contact. Obviously the high arm flailing, coupled with Safari's reaction, was the reason the ref immediately gave the red. That's the only possible explanation I could give other than it being a ridiculous brainfart as you've said.
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Offline Hinesy

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2014, 02:13:32 pm »
Bump if anyone wants to contribute beyond shouting at Brendan.
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Offline Garcepticon

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2014, 02:34:58 pm »
Gerrard and Lambert have little to no pace, Henderson and Sterling do. If the former found the latter effectively then we would have our pace and therefore our first step to victory. No doubt that was the plan for Brendan.

Lucas and Allen mop up loose balls and recycle to Gerrard/Lambert to start off that process. It all sounds pretty reasonable but there was a massive flaw with that last night and it was that Lambert and Gerrard, collectively, created bugger all space in the centre of the pitch. They didn't pull wide to give room for runs inside.

I thought that was the major flaw in our attacking play and it will continue to be the major flaw in our attacking play whilst we carry two older sets of legs. For all the criticism hurled at the feet of Borini, if you put him there instead of Lambert we might have had a bit of space to attack. We took Lambert off and brought on someone with pace and we got a little better. Simple rule to keep in mind for future games.

Gerrard is gorgeous with pace around him, but without it he increases our attacking problems - ditto Lambert.

I suggest those who haven't read Kristian Walsh in the Echo - give it a go.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/what-brendan-rodgers-must-turn-8263580

Promoting a youth player is not a bad idea, but a key point KWALSH makes is that we need to reintroduce pace to our team. As ever he's spot on. Brendan will figure it out if we give him time, he deserves at least this season and the next should we not finish lower than 6th in either.

Anyone calling Rogers a 'Fraud', 'PR Man' or 'Charlatan' should be shot on the spot for being a) daft as a brush and, b) entirely unimaginative.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2014, 02:41:36 pm »
For a second there to relieve our nerves I was hoping Tony Adams would reappear from retirement and hoof the ball long from the back when we needed it. I had to laugh at Simon near the end when Skrtel I think was taking a free kick and in the background you could see Simon screaming to play a short one, knock it around the back I guess as per instructions (if things were normal). Instead Skrtel drove it forward, ball ping ponged around the box putting Basel under severe pressure and we got a corner from it. Sometimes you just got to put your foot through the ball lads.

1st half really no point discussing it but glad we came out with a bit of a fight in the belly after HT, Whatever is in the cup of tea at halftime can it please be put into the prematch drinks as well. We gave it a go and even got better once we went down to 10 men. Markovic was unlucky I guess as he was showing a directness that was sadly missing from our play but at the end of the day you cant raise your arm like that so gave the ref a chance to send him off. It was a little odd Brendan went with him to change the game as he has not even farted his direction most of the season while the trusty Lallana & Coutinho were let on the bench. Does not bode well for those two does if cant start a vital game or even come on at HT.  Puzzling but anyway what a beaut of a free kick by SG and we were one goalie slip from a great comeback. Overall though our CL form has been dismal and rightly so did not qualify as 1 win and a goal difference of -4 would have left us as one of the weakest teams left in the competition. Still would have loved to see us given a go next year with a fully fit Sturridge in the side but right now we are licking our wounds.

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2014, 02:44:05 pm »
Obviously there has been plenty of criticism of the team selection last night. If I can be controversial I'd like to at least try and explain the selections.

Centre backs - with Kolo injured and Sakho not having played for a couple of months it was hardly a shock to see Lovren picked and I thought he did ok.

Full backs - the one area you could pick holes in i think. In recent weeks Brendan has tried to play it safe and gone with experience. I think this game was crying out for Moreno in particular as seen in the 2nd half.

The midfield 3 - plenty have cried out for this trio to play more together following on the spell in December last year where they worked well together. I know it was a must win game but I can understand the decision to pick what's probably our most solid midfield three.

The 'forward' 3 - I agree with the post above that we need more pace back in the side. Sterling has this obviously. Gerrard and Lambert clearly don't but Gerrard was always going to play in this game and to be fair did more than anyone else to almost drag us back into it. We know the faults of Lambert by now and this was a game too far to him but the selection itself made sense.

The absentees - I know now it's easy to say we should have started Coutinho and/or Lallana and maybe we should have done. i don't think the logic in trying to keep it tight and then throw on more attacking subs was so weird. It's just that (as ever) things didn't go to plan. Subbing Enrique for Moreno was a bit of a wasted sub, I'd rather he'd started and then lallana could have come on at some point too.

Anyway, no tactical breakdown from me - just thought I'd throw my two cents in regarding the starting line up which I've seen come in for plenty of criticism.

Offline Walshy nMe®

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2014, 02:45:34 pm »
We played a stationary forward, with 2 centre midfielders supporting him.

We had 4 centre midfielders on the pitch in the first half, in a game we needed to win.

I feel that Rodgers has lost a lot of confidence himself, and isn't risking us conceding 1 or 2 any more.  He wants to us to be this free flowing side, death by football e.t.c - but he is recently playing a back 6, to cover our poor defending.

Do we really need 7 defensive minded players on the pitch in a game we have to win?  I don't believe so. 

On to Rodgers' tactic.  We started so slowly, it is hard to believe that is all the players.  These are the same set of players that would start at 200mph last season.  Something has changed in the squad and Brendan looks all at sea trying to fix it.

It's a shame, but young managers need to go through this.  For his own sake it would have been better for him not to have to do this in glaring spotlight of the Liverpool manager, but he is here and this is what he needs to overcome.

As far as the match itself is concerned, we only looked like scoring in there final 10 minutes.  Again something is wrong there. 

He made the double sub at half time, both changes made sense.  But personally, they were changes that shouldn't have had to be made.  Enrique was a shock starter for me.  With Coutinho, Lallana, Markovich on the bench we had attacking prowess.

I was surprised that Borini didn't make there bench.  We only have 2 fit strikers, yet he can't get on the bench.  It says it all that Brendan either doesn't rate him, or is too stubborn to go back on a decision.

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2014, 02:46:02 pm »
The match encapsulated why we're not ready for the Champions League. If Sturridge had been fit maybe we'd have stole it at the end 2-1 but I thought 1-1 flattered us. They dominated most of the game, missed a glut of chances to put the game to bed and then tired towards the end after their heavy press for 75 minutes. The worst thing Rodgers did was getting the line up wrong (a weekly occurrence this season but we couldn't afford it last night) which wasted two subs at half time. Also not having that striker on the bench. Ideally we'd have been able to keep 2 subs back for the last 15/20 minute onslaught and gone all out attack but because he got the selection that wrong 2 subs were wasted and because a defender came on, it meant 1 less attacking change to make. Enrique starting was stupid.

I felt before the game, and now, that we were too reliant on Steven Gerrard going into the game. Not just because of the Olympiakos narrative but who else was likely to get a goal last night? We just don't have goals in us and while you can point to defence and midfield sigings (or lack of them in terms of CM) what's really killed us has been losing the 50 goals of Sturridge and Suarez and replacing them with Lambert and Balotelli. We can't score goals unless Gerrard can pull a set piece out the bag or a team like Leicester or Ludogrets gift us goals with awful defending.

I think we'll have to go all out for the Europa League and just hope we can improve our European know-how sufficiently to make a good fist of it because we'll have to play better teams than Basel if we want to reach the final of that. 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 02:49:45 pm by Fromola »
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Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2014, 03:04:40 pm »
The first half was terrible and the team selection was the main cause of that. Rodgers seemed to have created a coccoon to protect Gerrard, with Henderson, Sterling, Allen and Lucas surrounding him. The idea seemed to be they would win the ball and Gerrard would recieve it from them. This would provide the platform for the attack. Unfortunately this fell apart because, goal aside (though it was a fantastic goal), Gerrard had a pretty terrible game.

It didn't help that Lambert was in front of him on his own and Gerrard kept trying to slide balls through for him to run on to. Still, Lambert's contribution was minimal and he was rightly withdrawn at the start of the second half. Markovic and Moreno came on and offered a lot of pace, which opened up the game. Prior to that, with no outlet up fron Liverpool were pinned back and the defence was under incredible pressure. From the off in the second half the running of Markovic, Srerling and Moreno forced Basel back and Liverpool looked like scoring. Then came the red card.

I digress amoment here, because Iread the OPs appraisal of that. For me, that's not even a free. A yelow for simulation when play stops in fact. A hand off gone awry? How the hell is that red card. Intent? Intent to what? Brush his cheek? Fucking hell. No, the ref saw the player go down and went for the card beause that is reflex action these days. Balls was that a red. However, fixating on that only serves to deflect from the problems with the team. More on that in a moment.

After the red card Liverpool actually looked a lot more spirited. In fact they pushed and pushed hard for an equalizer. They got the equalizer (great free kick) and then pushed for a winner. They were unlucky and I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed the second half, red card aside. However, it was all a bit harum scarum. It's not a blueprint for future success, it's a one off frenzy. More worryingly it will have worn the team out. Will Gerrard be rested for United away? Of course not. He will be huffing and puffing away in the middle, probably to no avail. I fear for the weekend.

Were their positives? Well, Markovic was good for 15 minutes, he's starting to look the part. I thought Moreno did well when he came on. Sterling is still our brightest spark. The fightback was also impressive. Besides that there are a lot of concerns though.

I keep reading about the failed transfers of the summer and yes, Lambert, Balotelli and Lovren have so far been udnerwhelming. But Manquilo, Moreno, Lallana, Markovic and Can have all shown promise on many occassions throughout the season. Their continued under deployment makes less and less sense the more you see the team underperforming. And that is the crux of the problem for me.

So many established players are playing poorly. Last night Henderson was deployed on the left of the midfield. He was atrocious, has been for a while. His touch, passing, speed were all off. He kept having top use his right leg, I have never seena  more uncomfortable winger. SUre, he runs around a lot, but I could do that.  Allen added nothing last night, liek a staging post between point A and point B. Himself and Lucas spent the game getting in each others way. Johnson kept switching off last night, allowing players to run off his shoulder and in behind.  We complain about Lovren (who actually had a decent second half I feel) but when a FB stands and allows a player to run diagonally in front of him and in behind the CB, then only one person is to blame. Johnson did that on several occassions last night, letting Basel's forward get through ona  a 1-on-1 that Enrique had to snuff out. And Enrique hardly covered himself in glory either.

I am increasingly finding Rodger's decision-making difficult to understand. Yes, it's clear that if he had to he would stick Gerrard in goals just to get him on the pitch. That decison can be argued. But there are others being made I am struggling to understand. Did he catch Manquilo shitting in his coffee? Johnson is out of contract soon and there is no sign of it being renewed, he has done nothing to suggest he is significantly better than Manquilo, so why keep him out the side. Similalrly I can only assume that when Rodgers stared into his defiled coffee mug, he spied a coiled turd belonging to Borini in there as well. Othewise how do you explain starting a must win game with one 34 year old striker in your entire match day squad. For that matter why start a must win game with three tacklers in an unbalanced   4-2-3-1? Surely more technical players that can open up a side like Lallana and Coutinho should have started?

His selection to start was all wrong, far too cautious, dogs of war against technicians. Liverpool got beaten in teh first half when it counted, the second was pure adrenaline. It was all very depressing, not in the context of this game alone, but in the experience of the season as  whole. It feels like teh side is on autopilot until Sturiidge-the-saviour returns.

In case you can't guess I am still slightly miffed, but mostly more depressed than ususal. Normally I am annoyed after a game but calm down and reflect more positively. This time I was excited by the second half, but on reflection realise it was once again largely a frustrating game.
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Offline PoorScouser

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2014, 03:05:02 pm »
Others have covered Lazar and the card but my thoughts on it. Was tough to blame the ref as he is face on and cannot see exactly the space between the players. Horrible little bastard with his reaction and the ref probably doesn't have much choice but really no reason for Markovic to be going that high with his hand regardless of where he thought their player was. A real shame too as he was really direct when he came on, allowing us to give the Basle defence something to think about at least with his aggressive running and passing in that 15mins.

I think a lot of our build up play broke down with Gerrard on the ball too often through the game, though would like a second look to confirm this. Ricky Lambert looked knackered, good decision to hook him at HT as with Borini out in the cold for whatever reason we need him to recover for Sunday.

Defence on the whole I thought looked solid again which is a positive. Anybody suggesting we haven't turned a corner in this regard and repeating ad nauseum how nothing has changed should watch Palace again then the last 4 games. We really just don't look like scoring though, and it is fucking painful to watch after being spoiled in that dept last season. There are serious problems with getting the ball in the net and I don't know what the answers are, but the transfer committee and manager have to take a large slice of the blame.

We just didn't seem to have the legs when we were throwing the kitchen sink at them at the end, quite a few times I remember seeming to be half a yard or so from a clear chance and the weight of fixtures recently had to play a part in that. We just haven't been good enough and I hope the manager can learn from the mistakes and correct them. The CL is new ground for Rodgers and many have struggled in their first crack at it, I was predicting a group stage exit at the end of last season and that has how things have ended up panning out.


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Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2014, 03:17:53 pm »
Others have covered Lazar and the card but my thoughts on it. Was tough to blame the ref as he is face on and cannot see exactly the space between the players. Horrible little bastard with his reaction and the ref probably doesn't have much choice but really no reason for Markovic to be going that high with his hand regardless of where he didnt, and thought their player was. A real shame too as he was really direct when he came on, allowing us to give the Basle defence something to think about at least with his aggressive running and passing in that 15mins.

Was such a shame.

I just can't work it out. He glances backwards, then flings his arm out. If he SAW the Basel player when he looked back, he would have known he was two yards behind and no threat. As it is I can only think he thought he was about to be clattered and made a pre-emptive move. Especially annoying as previously Markovic has not really seen to be one who mixes it with the opposition, if anything you could criticise him for being too lightweight (sadly like much of the rest of the team at times) - the flail seems almost a reaction to this, Markovic wanting to prove he has grit and won't be muscled off the ball. Sadly it ended in disaster.

We should have started that second half team from the beginning. But it's easy to say in hindsight.

Let's hope Brendan is learning from his mistakes. Lord knows there's been enough of them so hopefully next year we'll be amazing ;D
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Offline Miltonred

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2014, 03:28:36 pm »
Going to be a little more optimistic, but it requires that I single out a player or two for some criticism.

Despite not overwhelming our opponents with swaggering attacking play, and was that ever really on the cards anyway, we did create more scoring opportunities than they did prior to conceding the first goal. Raheem Sterling got into, or was found three times in very good positions. Sadly his lack of quality with the final ball meant that on each occasion he made a bad to terrible pass or cross, which killed the chance.   Had he made that pull back to Stevie for example who was unmarked with a clear view of goal we would be looking at a goal up.

The situation that lead to the goal. Migs collects the ball in the box and he looks to free the ball to the right quickly to set up a fast break, but Johnson is stationary and Migs gives he a mouthful for not moving to take the ball. We end in with a poor pass out that results in pressurised inter play on a dangerous area BUT the giveaway ball was a lazy pass from Johnson to Lucas which came up short.

In the second half Sterling has a pass into Gerrard who is clean through on goal - its over hit, and the goalkeeper gets there first.

We had multiple set plays where we play the short corner, with our two centre backs and Lambert waiting for the cross? Odd choices.

All this to say that a couple of players being a little sharper and we win the game. A few bad choices from apparently nervous players trying to over play, none of which can be down to Brendan specifically (though he is a proponent of letting players make the decisions they want to make on the field, not follow a set pattern.)

Heck if that ball ricochets off their defender from Hendo's header a little faster (the kind of bad luck we always seem to suffer in our end) we win 2-1.


I'm not saying we deserved it, or were the better team, or if we had gone through been able to do damage in the knockout rounds, but I think if you analyse the game, the chances were there.

Offline Robbo1980

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2014, 03:31:54 pm »
Positive was that i think had there been another 5-10 mins we would have scored again....we looked a threat, mostly it just failed to materialise a shot (such as Gerrard just being beaten to it...last ditch tackle on sterling and a few others)  but we were causing them problems.

I cant say that about many games this year...Hull...Sunderland, Chelsea, Villa we could still be playing now and not have scored, we never pressured any of those teams....we were a notch of pace off a deflection from going through...

Id consider the 2nd half last night as the way forward in the short term with raheem playing a fluid forward role, give Markovic the chance to build on an impressive 15 mins

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2014, 03:36:59 pm »
Last night was as low as I've felt while supporting Liverpool, and yes, even lower than all the financial trouble we had a few years back, that never worried me as it was always going to be resolved.

I just sat there for the entire ninety minutes wondering how could things fall apart so quickly. As Liverpool supporters, we're well accustomed to troughs, but this one, for me, hurts the most. Even when Rafa got us to second, you still sensed that off the field troubles would get in the way, and ultimately fuck us up. Last season, we had a talented young manager, a team playing arguably the club's best ever football, and relative calm in the offices. Finally we had the recipe for success. And yet, here we are, mere months later, back to square one.

As for the match itself, we were bossed both on the field, and in the stands. Stop trying to rectify the lifeless home support, if last night couldn't ignite fire in the belly, it never will. There were 2,000 Basel fans there last night, and it could have passed for a game in Switzerland, they were magnificent. The noise they made was a credit to them and their club. As for the home support, no doubt OOTers and selfie stick carrying people will be blamed, but I think it's safe to say there were more than 2,000 locals in the stadium last night.

The players were a disgrace to the jersey. I always, always say that I can forgive a lack of luck, or being beaten by better quality, but I'll never forgive a lack of effort. A game of that magnitude, and you'd think we were playing Hyde in the first round of the league cup. Team selection was a disgrace too. I had said the night before that I was strangely optimistic, but as soon as I saw the starting lineup, all that optimism evaporated. How any manager could leave his number one, 25 million pound summer signing on the bench, while Joe Allen got knocked about midfield like a pin ball is criminal. On what planet is a midfield containing Lucas, Allen and Gerrard going to be creative, especially with a statue as your centre forward? You also had Henderson, newly appointed vice captain, the man we should be building our midfield around, banished to the wings.

We can cry about the transfer committee, but team selections and tactics from Brendan have been dire so far this season. 

Offline flipflan

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2014, 04:16:55 pm »
I feel a mixture of crushing disappointment and lived-up-to expectation.  As has been said by others, prior to the game I was optimistic.  This wasn't based solely on the history we've got of pulling through at the last minute but also because I feel/felt that we have enough players of a quality good enough to beat Basle.  The team selection took all optimism away.  The lack of pace was obvious from the team sheet and I'm sure that the large majority of fans would have thought the same.  To leave our 'marquee' signing out of the squad is ridiculous and this is borne out by the fact that it can't have been form that chose the squad what with Enrique for example getting in the starting 11.  To have a midfield of both Lucas and Allen shows that the tactics were to negate as much as possible.  This was compounded by the Moreno substitution which effectively cut off more attacking options as subs.  The fact that our central defender was up front at the end says it all really.

Poor team selection in the context of that game, poor performance for an hour, lack of drive and effort and some absoultely appalling passing show that we got what we deserved and that's a horrible thing to have to say.

Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2014, 05:31:02 pm »
By my count we have scored 7 goals in 8 home PL games while also scoring just 3 goals in 3 CL home games.  I don't want to hear any excuses about injuries and not having Sturridge and Suarez this year.  This club has spent more money on players than all but 6 or 7 out of the 32 clubs in the entire CL competition yet we don't even look like we could win the Milk Cup on current form.  Only 3 clubs have spent more than us in the PL yet we seem farther away from winning anything since Rafa's last season.  We have a roster of very highly valued and highly paid players that look like they could get outplayed by a Sunday league outfit as we can't defend nor score, it's almost comical.

Here we are playing FC Basle at home with a bench costing more than their entire transfer history and the best we can say is we gave it a good last 10 minutes?  Enough has been said about the players performances in this game and almost every game this season.  It hasn't been good enough and I almost want to laugh when everybody says it will change with Sturridge being available.  He played 3 games for us in which 2 of the 3 we looked terrible and we're badly outplayed but Sturridge nicked us a win in the first game.

I guess I could go on and on but I think what we all want, win or not, is for the team to play the way we want them to play.  I could handle us being bad if it was at least entertaining to watch but we're just a horrible mixture of boring and bad blended together.  For the love of god lets just setup to attack and win every game even if it may be at the Bridge and we're just asking for a mauling, I don't care.  I can't handle the sight of Lambert and Gerrard just lumbering around up top while we do nothing with the ball but hope Sterling creates something.......

Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2014, 05:38:22 pm »
Was such a shame.

I just can't work it out. He glances backwards, then flings his arm out. If he SAW the Basel player when he looked back, he would have known he was two yards behind and no threat. As it is I can only think he thought he was about to be clattered and made a pre-emptive move. Especially annoying as previously Markovic has not really seen to be one who mixes it with the opposition, if anything you could criticise him for being too lightweight (sadly like much of the rest of the team at times) - the flail seems almost a reaction to this, Markovic wanting to prove he has grit and won't be muscled off the ball. Sadly it ended in disaster.

We should have started that second half team from the beginning. But it's easy to say in hindsight.

Let's hope Brendan is learning from his mistakes. Lord knows there's been enough of them so hopefully next year we'll be amazing ;D

I genuinely think he misjudged where the player was. He was clearly up for the game and wanted to make an impression. He looked back but he's focussed on doing something with the ball and misjudged how far ahead he was. Don't believe there was any malice involved whatsoever and either way it was a disgraceful decision by the ref
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2014, 05:39:44 pm »
My take on it Corky was that he was trying to hand off the player, as you see hundreds of times in a game. I just think that Safari was slightly further away from him than he thought, and that's why his arm flailed into thin air. I've actually done a similar thing playing Rugby when I was a nipper, but I was travelling a little faster than the opposition player trying to track me, in my memory bank it was Usain Bolt speed, and I completely missed, lost my balance and went on my arse. I've watched it a dozen times since, and I just can't see the contact. Obviously the high arm flailing, coupled with Safari's reaction, was the reason the ref immediately gave the red. That's the only possible explanation I could give other than it being a ridiculous brainfart as you've said.

Yeah I've been waiting for someone to say that - I honestly think he made a mistake
His adrenalin was through the roof you could tell in his first few minutes on the pitch and he was making a difference; he'd tussled with the guy a bit before the incident and I honestly think he thought the lad was closing in on him
He also got unlucky that the Basle players head is slightly dipped as I'm pretty sure he was trying to push off his chest or shoulder judging from the level his arm went out at.
Anyway it was a joke of a sending off but in total it rounded out one of the best cameos I've seen in a while - he came on, looked like a LEGIT 40 million quid player - actually looked like the best player on the pitch - and then rode off into the sunset having changed nothing. Made me laugh the whole thing, hysterical tear based laughter mind.

Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2014, 05:53:19 pm »
I haven't seen it mentioned much, probably because it counted for nothing in the end, but that was a hell of a free kick from Gerrard.

Offline richmiller1

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2014, 06:09:52 pm »
One of the genuine truisms of the business world is that entities that are struggling as a result of failed gambles tend to react by becomming increasingly conservative and risk averse. This holds true despite the wider world knowing that behaving in the opposite fashion is generally what has gotten them to the top and is what would tend to serve them better. Why executives behave like this, despite knowing better, is one of lifes great mysteries......... or at least it is in my line of work.

Its not the first time we've seen this play out in football. Not the first time in recent years we've seen it play out at Liverpool even (hi Ged, Rafa, Kenny). That doesn't make watching it play out here again any less depressing.

There is in short no defending that starting lineup. Packed full of yesterday's men in a cowards formation. It sucked all the joy out of the occassion before the pantomine of handshakes and anthems had even commenced. It wasn't a Rodgers line up. Well, it was, but faced with those circumstances 6,12,18 or 24 months ago I guarantee you that is not the lineup he would have selected. The last three months have taken a heavy toll on his thought processes and appetite for risk.

The first half sits comfortably alongside some of the worst performances you can recall.The subs at halftime went some of the way to rectifying this and unsuprisingly we looked a little more like a Liverpool team and less like Liverpool 'Dads Eleven' afterwards. It still wasn't great but it was possible to feel something other than contempt towards those wearing the shirts by the end. In fact in isoltaed patches the second half was almost encouraging. The move that saw Gerrard released through on the the keeper was a gem, 6 inches or one stride from perfection, the best bit of football we've played since Dortmund visited for my money, a proper Rodgers bit of football. Makovic looked bright until he and ref combined to fuck it all up. Lovren even had an uneventful 45 minutes.

It wasn't enough. Not nearly. But the suicide watch reaction of most post match was a bit OTT and I for one still remain hopeful we can get through this.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be astonished if this season isn't largely a complete write off by Jan but I think we'll be back in this competition before too long.

I still think the signings will come good, if not this year then next. Lambert aside, they are all the right age. Lovren aside, i've seen enough to suggest they have something useful to offer if used correctly. I still think the bulk of the existing squad, despite appalling current form, is largely good enough to compete. I'm certainly not writing Henderson, Coutinho and Sterling because they have spent three months looking like league 2 cast offs.

And if all that doesn't do it for you then seek out the highlights of the day's first game against Basel......or better still the recent highlights against Stoke. If you can't hold out some hope for the (near-ish) future after watching all that then there really is no hope for you.

That all said however, someone needs to hold an intervention for Brendan pronto to help him get past this Enrique, Johnson, Skrtel nonsense. It is self destructive in the extreme.

Offline storkfoot

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2014, 08:21:16 pm »
The old adage that "you only play as well as the other team lets you" springs to mind.

Basel pressed us all over the pitch for almost all the game. They were also technically better and quicker than us in body and thought. The only exceptions on our side being Gerrard, Sterling and Moreno when he came on, in my opinion.

Give Basel some credit, lads.

Offline SquirrelandGman

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2014, 08:27:52 pm »
City have oil money and burned hundreds of millions and sacked managers to get to where they are though.

We dont operate that way

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2014, 08:33:10 pm »
My take on it Corky was that he was trying to hand off the player, as you see hundreds of times in a game. I just think that Safari was slightly further away from him than he thought, and that's why his arm flailed into thin air. I've actually done a similar thing playing Rugby when I was a nipper, but I was travelling a little faster than the opposition player trying to track me, in my memory bank it was Usain Bolt speed, and I completely missed, lost my balance and went on my arse. I've watched it a dozen times since, and I just can't see the contact. Obviously the high arm flailing, coupled with Safari's reaction, was the reason the ref immediately gave the red. That's the only possible explanation I could give other than it being a ridiculous brainfart as you've said.
I want to add more on the football side of things later but this is something I just wanted to share today that drives me absolutely bonkers. Now I know one was an English referee vs a European referee but nonetheless I think in a way it's an interesting summation of our luck this season:



That and this.

Versus this.

Only one resulted in a red.

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Offline foreverred1983

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2014, 08:53:14 pm »
Does anyone else think that Glen Johnson looked solid in a back three when we went with that after the red card?

Thought he played well again last night in what I saw of the game (the second half).

Borini will never play for us again by the looks of things but it strikes me as odd that we didnt name one sub striker on the bench no matter who it was. The message of that move should be clear to Borini but surely someone from the u21s could have been called up?
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2014, 09:44:42 pm »
Although...

Ok, I want to talk about the sending off, just because I don't think I have ever seen the like of it, and it was entirely the fault of Markovic.

You see flailing arms all the time in football, and elbows too. At corners, in tussles, side by side running, all the time. This was none of those things. Markovic had won the ball. Safari had been hassling him, maybe even fouled him but Markovic was free and clear, his aggressor having been shown, literally, a clean pair of heels and our boy was striding into open country. And then, for reasons best known to himself, Markovic took a blatant look back, in front of the ref, and then swung his arm back, in front of the ref. I'm not sure but it looked like there was some contact, possibly even a fingernail or two. Fingernail because the guy was at arms length.

The ball was an equal distance the other side of Markovic. The Basel player was not actively challenging for the ball, or even for Markovic. I'd argue Safari could have ignored the swing and the ref would still have had to send him off. As far as my understanding of the rules go, Markovic may as well have stopped, turned around and swung for Safari. You can't take a swing at a player, even backhand, when it's completely out of context with the surrounding play. Violent conduct. Red card.

What irritates me most about it is that Markovic didn't, couldn't have gained any advantage from what he did. You can forgive a player who drags down a goalbound opponent, or goes in too hard when the ball is relatively close but what Markovic did was petulant and silly and utterly incomprehensible.

In fact, the pass that he did deliver after the silliness was on and he could've executed it right after he comprehensively defeated Safari's aggressive and illegal (but the referee was 40 yards away and apparently the assistant referee was flying a kite or was also too far away) pressing.

It's not incomprehensible. It was impulsive, daft, silly but not incomprehensible. IRL, he would've turned around and smacked Safari, berating him verbally in the process. In the end, Safari had the last laugh.
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2014, 09:58:01 pm »
The old adage that "you only play as well as the other team lets you" springs to mind.

Basel pressed us all over the pitch for almost all the game. They were also technically better and quicker than us in body and thought. The only exceptions on our side being Gerrard, Sterling and Moreno when he came on, in my opinion.

Give Basel some credit, lads.

How do you figure Gerrard, Sterling and Moreno (when he came on, and not Markovic when he came on) were technically not worse and not slower than Basel's players "in body and thought".

Gerrard was mediocre, at best, for the vast majority of the match. Sterling was industrious, active and dangerous but he consistently made the wrong choices. His passing, especially final passing was poor. He passed (unsuccessfully) when he should've shot at goal, and shot at goal when he should've passed. And how can you highlight Moreno compared to Markovic. Markovic had been our MotM in the brief period he was on the pitch.

Notice how direct he was, how willing to take on a man he was. Gee, I wonder why the change. It couldn't possibly be that he had previously been instructed to be circumspect, right?
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Offline sempi

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2014, 10:03:12 pm »
How do you figure Gerrard, Sterling and Moreno (when he came on, and not Markovic when he came on) were technically not worse and not slower than Basel's players "in body and thought".

Gerrard was mediocre, at best, for the vast majority of the match. Sterling was industrious, active and dangerous but he consistently made the wrong choices. His passing, especially final passing was poor. He passed (unsuccessfully) when he should've shot at goal, and shot at goal when he should've passed. And how can you highlight Moreno compared to Markovic. Markovic had been our MotM in the brief period he was on the pitch.

Notice how direct he was, how willing to take on a man he was. Gee, I wonder why the change. It couldn't possibly be that he had previously been instructed to be circumspect, right?
You can't deny that energy visibly improved when we injected more pace,  however, I think Markovic  said "Sod it, I'm going to take my chance to show what I can do!" Pity about giving his opponent the chance to look like an extra from platoon.

Offline storkfoot

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2014, 10:22:03 pm »
How do you figure Gerrard, Sterling and Moreno (when he came on, and not Markovic when he came on) were technically not worse and not slower than Basel's players "in body and thought".

Gerrard was mediocre, at best, for the vast majority of the match. Sterling was industrious, active and dangerous but he consistently made the wrong choices. His passing, especially final passing was poor. He passed (unsuccessfully) when he should've shot at goal, and shot at goal when he should've passed. And how can you highlight Moreno compared to Markovic. Markovic had been our MotM in the brief period he was on the pitch.

Notice how direct he was, how willing to take on a man he was. Gee, I wonder why the change. It couldn't possibly be that he had previously been instructed to be circumspect, right?

Markovic ran hard at their defence at a time when they were tiring. He had some success. If he had a decent trick to beat his man, and an ability to shield the ball, he might have done better. Whether he would have had that level of success at the start of the game when they were pressing hard, closing space, and in the case of their marking of Sterling, doubling up, I'm not so sure.

I'm not really getting at Markovic. I was pleased that he did at least contribute last night, and I hope that the plaudits he has received give the lad an injection of confidence for the coming games. But to say he was MOTM based on a brief cameo performance is a bit OTT, in my opinion.

Offline Tony19:6

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2014, 10:27:45 pm »
I felt that 15 min cameo from Markovic was the best he's been in a red shirt, which shows he does have quality. Been a while coming but it is there.

Apart from the one true World Class moment from Gerrard, Raheem was our best player.
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Offline alhogan

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2014, 10:43:59 pm »
Most of us can agree that starting enrique over moreno was a strange decision. I think from this point onwards rodgers should consider playing sterling up front with gerrard behind because having gerrard and lambert up front just does not work. They are just too slow and lethargic.

The back four needs to be settled and i think moreno needs to start. Its good to see sakho back on the bench also.

Offline Mal

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2014, 10:51:56 pm »
So I just put this isn the post-match thread, it should probably have gone in here...

Patience is in short supply it seems & people forget all too easily...

I don't recall too many complaining about any of the transfers at the time, Lallana, Lovren, Markovic etc... for the most part they were all well received & most people thought they were rational, sensible additions to the squad. None of them have settled quickly enough. That's probably more than one persons fault, the managers sure, the players individual is most likely also true. There will no doubt be other people in the club too... Chastising players after they've played only a handful of games in just a few short months at the club, is the dictionary definition of impatient, 20/20 revisionist hindsight bull-shit. I'm going to single out Rickie Lambert too, he wasn't brought in to play 5 consecutive 90 minute games. He was the proverbial option off the bench, a different style. He still should be. He shouldn't be in some peoples firing line like this; I feel for the guy.

This whole revisionist clap-trap is disgraceful; people should know better. It speaks to me of people who don't understand the fundamental principles of the club I grew up supporting. Where's the patience? I'm sure someone will tell me that the games moved on... And tactically it has. And fitness wise it has. But unless human beings have fundamentally changed in the last 30 years (bear in mind this would be the single shortest shift in evolution in the 13.2 billion years that the universe has existed) then I'm sorry but you're talking bollocks.

But ALL that is aside issue as far as I'm concerned but it helps me construct my main point... I just mentioned the club I grew up supporting. That football club would NEVER have signed anyone with the risk levels attached to Mario Balotelli. He's the one that sticks out miles. No one could say signing him made RATIONAL sense. It was always a massive risk. But y'know, he'd got off to flyers goals wise pretty much most clubs he's started at & so maybe he would with us too. Maybe he'd grasp this opportunity in the last chance saloon. Maybe he'd finally settle down. Maybe he'd finally grow up. Maybe he's a risk worth taking. MAYBE this was what they were hoping... However, this has patently not been the case. Truth be told, loads of people climbed about the Balotelli bus, expertly driven as it was by the usual LFC fan ringleaders. Unfortunately, that has left them unable to accept that signing him, rather than any of the other strikers signed by say, Southampton or West Ham or Newcastle was a fucking huge fundamental mistake. Unlike ALL the other players we signed this summer it was him that represented a fucking enormous risk. He hasn't delivered. Rumour has it he's had a divisive effect with his behaviour already. Not only that, he doesn't even play the way we need our forwards to. Never has. Too immobile, too static without the ball. Not enough work rate. Bluntly he lacks the basics expected of someone who plays for Liverpool. And we knew all that BEFORE we bought him.

Now, I accept that the transfer committee will always get things wrong. And it will always get somethings right - they say a 50% strike rate is pretty decent so we only need Markovic and Lallana to start to perform, maybe Moreno too & everyone (largely) shuts up about the rest. BUT their collective acceptance that Mario Balotelli was a Liverpool player is beyond me. Way beyond me.

I'm sure someone will accuse me of scapegoating him, I just don't see that. Anyone rational will tell you that signing him was a massive risk, everyone (even those ringleaders) said it at the time... The return hasn't been there. Ask Alan Hansen about playing the percentages. Fuck if you think 'he's a defender, he would say that' ask Kenny. You'll get the same answer. This was a risk needlessly taken. Especially when you KNOW your main man to lead the line is overdue a big injury.

If people think the managers head should roll for this, or if those same people think the same thing based on their perception of how he's coped with the way things have developed this season, I'd suggest to them that they think again. FSG, deliberately hired a young inexperienced manager; the idea that they bin off one of the best young managers in the game is ridiculous. And please, don't point out that he's won nothing: by definition this is the kind of guy that FSG wanted, someone young, someone talented & hungry - you think they'll change their profiling now..? Bollocks they will.

This suggestion that he'll be fired is about as ridiculous a suggestion as I've heard in relation to Liverpool Football Club in the last 2.5 years. Not as daft as hiring Hodgson. Not as daft as selling the club to Hicks & Gillet. But still, it's VERY fucking daft.

If all that is on Brendan's head fair fucks, off you go & bin him off. Start a new plan that needs new players. Start a new fucking philosophy. But if that happens I'm out. Seriously. I'll still watch for the results & I'll still want us to do well. But that emotional engagement will have taken too many knocks. Rafa, Hicks & Gillet, being on the verge of going bankrupt, what they did to Kenny, Torres, employing Hodgson, last season... I could go on, I could mention far more serious incidents, I won't though, I'm sure you get the drift.

It just seems to me that the club is at massive risk of losing the soul I think it just about still has. We've either stabbed people in the back too many times or hung others out to dry too many times. It's got to stop, the club has to unite behind someone. Historically at Liverpool that's been the manager. Always.

For me, you don't throw that away lightly.
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Offline Jinxsy

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2014, 11:02:22 pm »
We lacked class, composure and cutting edge.
None of that is surprising given that all three have been ever present features this season.

We're (ahem!) rebuilding . It's incredibly frustrating after the season that almost was, but I don't (not for one second) believe that last years football or energy was down to one man. It wasn't about Luis or about Brendan - it was a space and time and synchronicity thing. I believe that despite the obvious cues to the contrary Brendan is learning - he's an intelligent coach.
So, we got what we deserved out of the Champions League - fucked off out of it. We'll learn.

Now Brendan needs to think about wrestling back some positivity into our performances and we just have to adopt a slightly fresh perspective. If you looked at this squad without the context of last season, where would you expect us to be???
We're a squad and a manger for the future.. a lot of the responsibility for how much patience is shown lies with us.

Time to support lads.

Offline redan

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2014, 10:05:58 am »
Well that's that. Tuesday night concluded the least successful 'campaign' since Custer decided to take his troops on a day trip to the Little Bighorn River to visit some Native American friends,

The fruition of 5 years of strife and struggle to get us back in the 'elite', back where we belong, was over before it'd really begun. Relegated to Thursday nights away in Kreplakistan quicker than Markovic's index finger,

I think most people would argue we've had one decent performance all season and that hasn't come in the CL. 10 points in popular belief is the benchmark to progress from the group stages, we had the opportunity to qualify with 7 and still fell woefully short. 1 (last gasp) win in 6 in a group containing Basel and Ludogorets.... let that sink in.

The worst is we've not even been unlucky, on the contrary. Our solitary victory, that famous Anfield night against Ludogorets, came courtesy of the goalkeeper letting his mind slip to the night shift at the post office he was doing immediately after. Since that opening glory, we've taken part in a drab 1-0 loss away in Switzerland, got battered by Madrid at home, put up a brave 'league one' side away to a Prem team performance at the Bernabeu (we finished 2nd in the Premier League last season in case anyone had forgotten), conceded a late equalizer to the minnows and then there was last night.

We should have been out before last night but due to a combo Madrid's ruthlessness and the also-rans (us included) taking points off each we were left with only 4 points but still a great chance to progress. Beat Basel at home and we're in the last 16. Simple. A place in the last 16 would give the fans and players something to look forward to during the upcoming bleak winter period and at least an opportunity to face one of Europes elite at Anfield with hopefully Sturridge in tow.

Did we manage it? Did we fuck. The day started with the team sheet read like a side needing a point away to progress. Lucas, Allen, Henderson, Gerrard, a midfield quartet with 5 goals from open play between them and players who are not noted for their attacking prowess (Gerrard in the past 3 years). Then up top we had Rickie Lambert, great lad and I'd have loved nothing more than him to have a special night last night but it was never going to happen. For all his endeavour and hard work he is extremely limited. It's like having a Diesel engine in your Sports Car, for all the other mechanical genius going on in the rest of the vehicle it's still hampered by having this major component not fitting with the rest.

The first half was heart-breaking to watch. I felt like running down to the dressing room at HT and give them a version of Mike Bassett's infamous Mexico speech (anybody not familiar see this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylftUmF-GSw ) because I assure you there were literally millions of Kids around the world that would love to be given to opportunity to be written into LFC Folklore (Brendan's words) in front of the Anfield crowd but them 11 (yes I'm including every player) was utterly woeful. Devoid of any inspiration, desire, commitment it was truly awful. We went 1-0 mid way through the first half, is this the spark that shouldn't have been needed?! No

Markovic's cameo early in the 2nd half provided some inspiration until he became the Phantom Finger Flicker and football took one step further to it's impending merger with Amateur Dramatics. The last 10 was a case of too little too late and we finally decided to show any desire. Our Captain is not exempt from this, despite the almost poetic nature of his free kick the rest of the game he wasn't performing just like everyone else.

And then that was that. Gone quicker than our Luis Suarez money and just as successful. The sight of 100m+ investment summed up with Lallana on the bench and Martin Skrtel as our Centre Forward. 

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2014, 10:42:32 am »
The old adage that "you only play as well as the other team lets you" springs to mind.

Basel pressed us all over the pitch for almost all the game. They were also technically better and quicker than us in body and thought. The only exceptions on our side being Gerrard, Sterling and Moreno when he came on, in my opinion.

Give Basel some credit, lads.

Please tell me you put that in out of grudging polite respect for such a wonderful club servant and not because you felt he merited it on his night's quite shocking overall performance [free kick and one run apart]

Offline Weytske

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2014, 11:31:59 am »
Most of us can agree that starting enrique over moreno was a strange decision. I think from this point onwards rodgers should consider playing sterling up front with gerrard behind because having gerrard and lambert up front just does not work. They are just too slow and lethargic.

The back four needs to be settled and i think moreno needs to start. Its good to see sakho back on the bench also.
The entire starting XI left me wondering. And this in a game where we needed to win. Gerrard in behind Lambert just isn't mobile enough. At times there was space in the channels to make runs but neither had the speed or desire to make them, which made Sterling easier to defend on. Besides, those runs are what made us great last season and now they are nowhere to be found. Also Henderson on the left was a rather weird selection. I also thought he proves his merit when he plays central and not on the flank, let alone on the left.

Furthermore our issues are rather based on mentality than ability I think. We couldn't string 5 decent passes together at the back when Basel pressed while players with confidence pass it out at that moment. Basel did had that confidence and passed in out quite easily when we pressed. That's why I tought we could've used Coutinho in a deeper role, someone who collects the ball and can turn under pressure. Also the cameo from Markovic to me proved what a bit of speed and desire can do to our team and believe.

Offline Yiannis

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2014, 12:24:44 pm »
Please tell me you put that in out of grudging polite respect for such a wonderful club servant and not because you felt he merited it on his night's quite shocking overall performance [free kick and one run apart]

Not to turn this into a Gerrard argument but Timbo is absolutely right. Gerrard he didn't have a good game. Actually far from it. So many misplaced passes, lack of understanding with the rest of the players like he was his 1st game with the club.
Messi in fact doesn't have a recognizable trait.