Topic: The Ashes: England in Australia 2017-18

[CheshireDave]

November

4-5 v Western Australia XI, Perth (Waca)
8-11 v Cricket Australia XI, Adelaide (d/n)
15-18 v Cricket Australia XI, Townsville
23-27 1st Test, Brisbane (00:00 GMT)

December

2-6 2nd Test, Adelaide (d/n) (04:00 GMT)
9-10 v Cricket Australia XI, Perth (venue TBC)
14-18 3rd Test, Perth (Waca) (02:30 GMT)
26-30 4th Test, Melbourne (23:30 GMT, 25-29 Dec)

January

4-8 5th Test, Sydney (23:30 GMT, 3-7 Jan)
11 v Cricket Australia XI, Sydney (venue TBC)
14 1st ODI, Melbourne (03:20 GMT)
19 2nd ODI, Brisbane (04:20 GMT)
21 3rd ODI, Sydney (03:20 GMT)
26 4th ODI, Adelaide (03:50 GMT)
28 5th ODI, Perth (venue TBC)* (06:20 GMT)

[CheshireDave]

England squad for Ashes tour

Joe Root (capt, Yorkshire)
Moeen Ali (Worcestershire)
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Jonny Bairstow (wk, Yorkshire)
Jake Ball (Nottinghamshire)
Gary Ballance (Yorkshire)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Alastair Cook (Essex)
Mason Crane (Hampshire)
Ben Foakes (wk, Surrey)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Craig Overton (Somerset)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Mark Stoneman (Surrey)
James Vince (Hampshire)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)

Australia squad for Ashes tour

TBC

[Crosby Nick]

5-0 Australia.

Well hopefully not but it may be a possible scenario. Not sure we've picked the best batting or bowling options there.

Both sides have a sprinkling of class with a smattering of fragility. It's a given that both look stronger in the bowling department but I do worry that a lot of our seamers won't be as effective in Aussie conditions. They'll target Moeen too so a fair bit of pressure on him.

Our record in Brisbane and Perth is grim so it goes without saying that day night second test in Adelaide is going to be huge. Not sure if the day night thing helps or hinders us. Go into the last couple of Tests level or just one down and we'll have a chance but you do worry about momentum on these long tours and a bad start could make for a grim tour.

[Klippity Klopp]

Amazing how many chances someone like Ballance get without him changing his technique.

Lots of 'meh' picks in there, but I guess there was always going to be.

Vince suggests to me Root is staying at 4 and Vince will be at 3.  Root should be batting at 3 and if he's put his foot down and said he doesn't want to, that's concerning.  Probably the most disappointing thing if true, as Root needs to be at three before coming in early 2 down all the time reacting to a crisis.

I can't see how Ball will hurt the Aussies.  Rather have someone like Wood, Plunkett or Finn - who have extra pace or height.

Crane over Leach is odd.  The stats all point to Leach in terms of wickets taken and average.  Rather Rashid got the nod over Crane too.  I haven't seen much of him, but his stats are not impressive at all.

Feel Malan is pretty lucky, but someone had to go.  Could have been Hales or Westley - but big question marks over them all.

The good news is the Aussies have loads of problems too.  But I have them as favourites due to the home advantage.

[Klippity Klopp]

Saw Trevor Bayliss talking about the squad and saying one of the reasons Crane was picked was due to his height.  They feel he'd get a lot of bounce from the hard pitches which obviously helps a spinner.

How tall is he?

[Welshred]

Crane playing in Australia last winter and becoming the first overseas player since 1985 to play a Sheffield Shield match, doing well in the game too has probably helped him a little bit.

Looking forward to people pining for Hales as soon as the first failure happens too.

[Brain Potter]

Don't hold up any confidence that England will win a single test. The batting line up is flawed and Anderson reserves his best performances for home conditions. I don't think it's the strongest Aussie team either but I can see only  a whitewash.

[CheshireDave]

16/1 are the odds if you fancy 5-0 Australia. 4-0 currently 12/1.

[Cassiel]

Get that c*nt Hayden out early and see off McGrath and then Warne and we can batter these twats. Bit worried about Freddie as capt...

Sorry lads, had a terrible flashback there. It looks like our two best bats (Cook and Root) v their best two (David fucking Warner - basically, Matthew Hayden after being put in a car crusher - and Steve Smith, a man who fiddles with a box more often than Noel Edmonds). Our middle/lower order is better than theirs - Glen Maxwell for God's sake. Be better off with Jim Maxwell. But their bowling holds the key. It looks better than ours, in their conditions. Starc, Cummins and Lyons v Jimmy, Broad and Moeen. Could be tighter than Justin Langer's wallet, the brown-nosing little dwarf.

[Rob Dylan]

 Don't think it'll be 5-0 but there's just not enough quality in the batting or pace in the bowling. Anderson & Broad (especially Broad) are not the bowlers they were, and the Aussies will really go after Moeen.

Amazing that the squad features so many incredibly average batsmen who have failed at international level and that this whole summer they've failed to sort out the number 2, 3 & 5 positions. They should've at least put Hameed in for a few Tests, regardless of his county form - he has the temperament and has clearly been identified as a long-term regular in the team, instead they just keep picking journeymen who struggle to make a mark. The argument against picking Hameed was that he wasn't scoring many runs, but they've ended up picking Vince, wo hasn't scored many either. Stoneman is considered to have been the most successful of all the batsmen they tried this year, but he's hardly made a big impact. They'd have been better off going back to the likes of Hales and Buttler, at least they have the international experience and a bit of quality.

[Welshred]

Hameed broke his finger last week. Minor details like injuries can keep players out.

[voodoo ray]

The side with the better bowlers usually wins, and I think theirs will be better than ours over there.

I'm not sure they're any great shakes as a side themselves though.




and stokes is an idiot with terrible judgement.

[dudleyred]

A very weak looking squad but not sure i'd write us off quite yet

Huge amount of pressure on Cook and Root. If they fail then we really will be relying on those around them in the lineup and we cant expect them to come in and produce the goods

If Cook and Root do perform though then we have a chance. Australia haven't got the fear factor they had previously and are prone to the same poor performances we are

I cant work out the Vince call up - may as well have stuck with Westley in my opinion. Made me laugh seeing Collingwood has got a better average than Vince

Does anyone know is their a cap on squad size that we could have for the tour? Just don't get limiting it to 17 unless its the rules. If its not in the rules why not take 20 and give yourself some more options

[Crosby Nick]

The Lions squad will be out there so we'll be able to call on players from there if needed. Better some of the fringe players there play a few matches than just sit in the sidelines with the main squad.

[gjr1]

Don't think we have enough runs in us to be honest.

If Stokes doesn't make the plane we're screwed.

Foakes, Woakes and Stokes who'd have thought it...

[Rob Dylan]

Hameed broke his finger last week. Minor details like injuries can keep players out.

What I meant was they should've brought him back into the team this summer, and they might at least have sorted out one of those batting positions. Had he been first choice at this point, he probably wouldn't have broken his finger because he probably wouldn't have been playing. They've been obsessed with picking batsmen who've been scoring runs at county level this year, yet now they've ended up picking Vince, who's not only out of form but has already failed at international level. They were apparently planning to play Crane in the 3rd Test v WI, but after they lost the 2nd Test they didn't want to take the risk - but now they're happy to take the risk of potentially giving him his debut against Australia away from home. There's just so many contradictions in their selection policy.

[Yorkykopite]

Get that c*nt Hayden out early and see off McGrath and then Warne and we can batter these twats. Bit worried about Freddie as capt...

Sorry lads, had a terrible flashback there. It looks like our two best bats (Cook and Root) v their best two (David fucking Warner - basically, Matthew Hayden after being put in a car crusher - and Steve Smith, a man who fiddles with a box more often than Noel Edmonds). Our middle/lower order is better than theirs - Glen Maxwell for God's sake. Be better off with Jim Maxwell. But their bowling holds the key. It looks better than ours, in their conditions. Starc, Cummins and Lyons v Jimmy, Broad and Moeen. Could be tighter than Justin Langer's wallet, the brown-nosing little dwarf.

 

We don't have enough firepower to bowl the Aussies out twice. At least I don't think so. Unless someone does a Bresnan or Tremlett and actually uses an Ashes tour to discover some inner talent that no one expected they had. Ball? Jesus, I don't think so.

I'd have taken a punt and gone with Coad. I know that's probably Yorkshire patriotism speaking there, but the lad is both cocky and accurate which is a nice combination. He's also bowled in Australia before. I guess he'll be with the Lions, so who knows.....

Of the batsmen I actually like watching Vince. But you have to be quick if you want to see him. He doesn't hang around. Quite what he's done to deserve a recall no one knows. The same with Ballance. I'd have been tempted to give Hales another shot though. I saw him in South Africa against the quicks and, admittedly, he was hopeless. But that's because he was being coached into playing an unnatural game. Australia might have breathed a wee sigh of relief when they realised he wasn't coming. Anyone else feel that? 

Foakes is a decent choice. I've no idea about Crane. Maybe we'll send for Colin Cowdrey by Perth.

[dudleyred]

The Lions squad will be out there so we'll be able to call on players from there if needed. Better some of the fringe players there play a few matches than just sit in the sidelines with the main squad.

yes i agree and get that but cant see the likes of Hales & Buttler playing the Lions tour - not saying they are the answer but its more likely to be some youngsters on the Lions tour so we'd be bringing in inexperience anyway

I just think we could have taken a  couple of other senior bodies to give us some more options

Given the length of the tour it has to be the smallest squad in sport terms. We take 23 to a football tournament, goodness knows how many the lions take - enough for two teams basically!

[Crosby Nick]

Anyone seen much of Overton? I haven't but from what little I've seen and read he seems the sort of bowler who might do better there, hoping he does a Tremlett although that's probably wishful thinking.

I haven't seen that video clip doing the rounds of Stokes, think it's been published by the rag but do get the feeling this is going to get quite serious and we might have to plan for him not being available for some or all of the seri s.

[Circa1892]

I haven't seen that video clip doing the rounds of Stokes, think it's been published by the rag but do get the feeling this is going to get quite serious and we might have to plan for him not being available for some or all of the seri s.

Also not watched it due to source - but those who have say it's absolutely damning. If he gets charged with ABH then there's a chance a court date may coincide with the months and months we're out there, or that he might not get a visa?

Who replaces him if he isn't in the side? Presumably an extra bowler with Moeen and Bairstow going from being the best 7 and 8 in the world to the best 6 and 7 with Woakes good enough to bat at 8...

[cornishscouser92]

Anyone seen much of Overton? I haven't but from what little I've seen and read he seems the sort of bowler who might do better there, hoping he does a Tremlett although that's probably wishful thinking.

I haven't seen that video clip doing the rounds of Stokes, think it's been published by the rag but do get the feeling this is going to get quite serious and we might have to plan for him not being available for some or all of the seri s.

Overton's fodder, operates in the low 80's. The England attack is very 'samey'.

[Crosby Nick]

Overton's fodder, operates in the low 80's. The England attack is very 'samey'.

Ah, well there goes the last hope.

Terrible when someone you haven't seen much gets picked plays, you get excited and then...it's Martin McCague, Alan Igglesden or Boyd Rankin and you have to watch them get taken to the cleaners for days at a time.

[Gerry Attrick]

Cricinfo says he's medium-fast, wasn't sure whether that was accurate but seems like it is in this case then. He's never going to play anyway.

[Carlito Roberto]

Also not watched it due to source - but those who have say it's absolutely damning. If he gets charged with ABH then there's a chance a court date may coincide with the months and months we're out there, or that he might not get a visa?

I wouldn't have thought they can deny him a visa unless he's actually been convicted of said offence.

[Yorkykopite]

I wouldn't have thought they can deny him a visa unless he's actually been convicted of said offence.

And if he is convicted he'll get a free passage to Australia anyway.

[Ziltoid]

[Rysoph76]

I haven't seen that video clip doing the rounds of Stokes, think it's been published by the rag but do get the feeling this is going to get quite serious and we might have to plan for him not being available for some or all of the seri s.

I watched it via youtube to ignore the source (yes I know that is borderline). He comes across very much as the aggressor and at the end he is clearly being a bully when the 2 blokes have decided to walk away

[Fiasco]

Stokes and Hales wont be considered for selection by England until further notice.

[Crosby Nick]

Easy to speculate, probably best to wait for the outcome of any trial.

Should he be allowed to play until a time he's found guilty of any offence? Tricky old position he's put the ECB in, only one thing for it really, an overdue recall for Mark Ealham to solve any all rounder dilemmas.

[CheshireDave]

Stokes and Hales wont be considered for selection by England until further notice.

Rightly so. Absolutely disgusting behaviour from Stokes. This may end his England career.

[Fiasco]

Rightly so. Absolutely disgusting behaviour from Stokes. This may end his England career.

I haven't seen the video as it has been sourced from the rag, but apparently it doesn't make for good viewing no matter how you look at it. Hales apparently kicked a guy in the head while he was on the floor, but again I'm going by what people have seen but that is seemingly what the video shows.

[CheshireDave]

I haven't seen the video as it has been sourced from the rag, but apparently it doesn't make for good viewing no matter how you look at it. Hales apparently kicked a guy in the head while he was on the floor, but again I'm going by what people have seen but that is seemingly what the video shows.

I have seen the video late last night when it popped up on my YouTube feed and I am pretty sure you can't see Hales kicking anyone. From the video it seems as if he is trying to diffuse the situation if anything. Though who knows what happened before the lad on what I presume is a balcony above turned his camera on. You can however see Stokes acting in a very violent manner. The video doesn’t make pretty viewing. That’s all I will say. If people decide to watch it they can make their own mind up. Anyway it’ll all be on CCTV and the police will I am sure act accordingly.

[Rysoph76]

I have seen the video late last night when it popped up on my YouTube feed and I am pretty sure you can't see Hales kicking anyone. From the video it seems as if he is trying to diffuse the situation if anything. Though who knows what happened before the lad on what I presume is a balcony above turned his camera on. You can however see Stokes acting in a very violent manner. The video doesn’t make pretty viewing. That’s all I will say. If people decide to watch it they can make their own mind up. Anyway it’ll all be on CCTV and the police will I am sure act accordingly.

He kicks the guy in the head when he is on the floor at the start of the video. Later on he is shouting at Stokes to calm down and trying to pull him back.

[El Lobo]

Oh deary me

Still think he'll go

[cdav]

I have seen the video late last night when it popped up on my YouTube feed and I am pretty sure you can't see Hales kicking anyone. From the video it seems as if he is trying to diffuse the situation if anything. Though who knows what happened before the lad on what I presume is a balcony above turned his camera on. You can however see Stokes acting in a very violent manner. The video doesn’t make pretty viewing. That’s all I will say. If people decide to watch it they can make their own mind up. Anyway it’ll all be on CCTV and the police will I am sure act accordingly.

I saw it as a gif last night and it looked like one of the others tried to bottle one of Stokes' group and it spiralled from there. Stokes seemed pretty determined to knock him out even after they were backing away but its hard to know the full story- can't really see Hales doing much wrong from what I remember

[voodoo ray]

And someone needs to tell stokes you don't need a conviction to get into Australia these days.

(That's not mine)

[vagabond]

Oh deary me

Still think he'll go

Not sure how anyone can be sure either way right now. Even if he doesn't get convicted of anything, I feel the ECB may suspend him for a period of time themselves for bringing English cricket into disrepute.

[Crosby Nick]

Not sure how anyone can be sure either way right now. Even if he doesn't get convicted of anything, I feel the ECB may suspend him for a period of time themselves for bringing English cricket into disrepute.

Can they do the same to James Whitaker while they're at it.

[Prof]

The two of them have had a monumental fuck up.  The biggest mistake was even being out at that sort of time and in that sort of location.

We've all seen it before.  Famous young men with a wedge in their pocket out in the same places as guys without the same social standing are targets for alcohol fueled men.  Their jealousy and egos make them do and stay stuff to bait and stir the celebrity into a reaction to look good to their mates.

Stokes and Hayles had likely been drinking so their control wouldn't have been there (and with Stokes, we know he plays cricket on the edge so can guess what he's like in these situations).  In most cases that events like this start, the big name person will maintain control and take themselves out of the situation.  But in this case, it's ended up spiralling out of control.

I'd be amazed if the ECB hadn't run workshops for the players on how to avoid these situations and defuse them if they occur.  We used to see it all the time with footballers, but that seems to be a relatively rare event now, largely because of the education players are given on this front.  Stokes is in the same bracket as other global superstars now, especially with his recent windfall giving him cash to splash.  If the ECB haven't provided this level of guidance, they are as guilty as Stokes.

It is very rare now for big name athletes to frequent mainstream venues.  They stick to private or exclusive venues with invite only events.  On the occasions you see them out in the everyday public places, they don't drink to excess (if at all) and leave well before the agro hour.

Lessons need to be learned here, and the ECB saying they expect their players to act like adults just doesn't cut it.

[robgomm]

I saw it as a gif last night and it looked like one of the others tried to bottle one of Stokes' group and it spiralled from there. Stokes seemed pretty determined to knock him out even after they were backing away but its hard to know the full story- can't really see Hales doing much wrong from what I remember

I got the impression Stokes was trying to defend initially as well but rage seems to take over and the last punch, where he knocks the guy flat out, is the one that may do for Stokes as the guy seemed to have given up at that point.