Topic: Lucas

[amirani]

Much rather have him in the squad than Klavan

Da heck?!! Both Lucas and Klavan have had their share of solid performances as well as poor performances this season. I don't know what you are basing your judgment on. Klavan has started in our wins against Spurs (Home), Everton (Away), City (Home), Arsenal (Home and Away). We just conceded 4 goals in those 5 games, 1 goal conceded in 4 games if you don't count the first away game against Arsenal.

[Alonso_The_Assassin]

Da heck?!! Both Lucas and Klavan have had their share of solid performances as well as poor performances this season. I don't know what you are basing your judgment on. Klavan has started in our wins against Spurs (Home), Everton (Away), City (Home), Arsenal (Home and Away). We just conceded 4 goals in those 5 games, 1 in 4 games if you don't count the first away game against Arsenal.

Is right. For the money we spent on Raggy, he's done a fair job for us.

As for Lucas. Would start him again on Wedneaday. He's in rhythm and at home he never lets us down.

[BritishGas]

If there's one player I could choose to join Liverpool's coaching staff...

[AaronSingh25]

He played well. But i'm not going into hyperbole and suggest he now should stay on.

He's been terrible the past few seasons, bar the odd game.

Let's be honest this Everton midfield was a second rate rabble, their second team due to them having a fair few injuries.

If we have higher aspirations we need a massive upgrade.

[Redcap]

If there's one player I could choose to join Liverpool's coaching staff...

Is the answer Xabi?

He played well. But i'm not going into hyperbole and suggest he now should stay on.

He's been terrible the past few seasons, bar the odd game.

Let's be honest this Everton midfield was a second rate rabble, their second team due to them having a fair few injuries.

If we have higher aspirations we need a massive upgrade.

I agree that we can do better, but you're far overstating it. What are you? Some sort of Bizarro World Leivapool?

The question we should be asking of all our squad players is: if the first choice player in their position is unavailable, how happy are we with them starting for an extended stint?

I think the answer for Lucas is 'not that happy'. I think there are a number of games in the season where he'd be useful.  In those games where we need a midfield anchor to just mop up in front of the back four and keep the ball moving, he's an acceptable second choice. But a full time DM is not a man for all seasons in our team and neither is Lucas.

I'd like to see him stay, but I think his staying would be a luxury. A bit like Kolo at the end of last season. A great guy to have in the dressing room, but maybe not for £60k a week.

[sideshowme]

...i'm not going into hyperbole..
.
He's been terrible the past few seasons, bar the odd game.

[Frizzo]

Hahaha you beat me to it yer bastard 😉

[Giono]

He played well. But i'm not going into hyperbole and suggest he now should stay on.

He's been terrible the past few seasons, bar the odd game.

Let's be honest this Everton midfield was a second rate rabble, their second team due to them having a fair few injuries.

If we have higher aspirations we need a massive upgrade.

Let's be honest...

Missing their regular defensive midfielder had no effect on Lucas' ability to perform on the day. It gave space and time to our attackers possibly, but not our deepest lying midfielder.

Let's be real.

[joekim87]

If we bring in Naby Keita, would there be room for Lucas?

[stockdam]

Lucas will be an important player for us in the run in. If we are one or two goals up and need to protect a lead then he'll come on and tighten up midfield. He is good in the air and gives some protection to our defence.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

 He's been a solid player this season in the role as a 3rd/4th choice centre half.  So much better than the likes of skrtel.

Where did I say Klavan has been shit? I just said I'd rather have Lucas in the squad than him which may well be a direct choice in the summer should we sign a centre back and a central midfielder as I think everyone on here will rightly be demanding.

As for the notion that Klavan is a better defender than Skrtel, that's absolutely laughable but there we are.

Da heck?!! Both Lucas and Klavan have had their share of solid performances as well as poor performances this season. I don't know what you are basing your judgment on. Klavan has started in our wins against Spurs (Home), Everton (Away), City (Home), Arsenal (Home and Away). We just conceded 4 goals in those 5 games, 1 goal conceded in 4 games if you don't count the first away game against Arsenal.

Right I must have missed the part where Klavan only played five games this season

I'm basing it on Lucas having more experience at the top level, more experience at this club, a strong connection with the city and his team-mates, the ability to play two or three positions to a decent standard, and being a better footballer frankly

[amirani]

Where did I say Klavan has been shit? I just said I'd rather have Lucas in the squad than him which may well be a direct choice in the summer should we sign a centre back and a central midfielder as I think everyone on here will rightly be demanding.

As for the notion that Klavan is a better defender than Skrtel, that's absolutely laughable but there we are.

Right I must have missed the part where Klavan only played five games this season

I'm basing it on Lucas having more experience at the top level, more experience at this club, a strong connection with the city and his team-mates, the ability to play two or three positions to a decent standard, and being a better footballer frankly

Right, I must have missed the part where you have to take away one player's achievements in order to praise another player.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Right, I must have missed the part where you have to take away one player's achievements in order to praise another player.

If you can't accept throwaway comments then get off a forum mate. There were several posts regarding his future at the club in this thread. A lot of people seem to think there'll be no room for him but I disagree, I just don't think there's room for him and Klavan together and in that event I'd be gutted if we kept an inferior player over a superior one with more emotional attachment to the club.

[rickardinho1]

This squad isn't really lacking in the DM position in my opinion, with Henderson, Can, Lucas, and Stewart all capable of playing there.

Looking at the bigger picture, the first XI of Henderson-Lallana-Wijnaldum has bossed plenty of midfields - but the problems this season have generally come when that trio has been tired or 1-2 have been unfit.

The solution against the teams that defend deep isn't really to add a better DM (i.e. replacing Lucas), but rather to add a top creative midfielder who can play next to Lallana in those games (or instead of him when he's unavailable) since the midfield often lacks dynamism when Lallana isn't playing.

For example, someone like James Rodriguez would be a great option, capable of playing in the CM (in rotation with Wijnaldum and Lallana), as well as covering at RW when Mané is unavailable. Two birds with one stone right there.

                 Henderson
                    Lucas
       James             Lallana
      Wijnaldum         Can

That's a pretty strong midfield 6 right there, including Lucas as DM cover. Klopp kept Kehl at Dortmund until age 35 so why not Lucas? A great character and veteran to have in the squad especially given his Champions League experience.

[Dim Glas]

That's a pretty strong midfield 6 right there, including Lucas as DM cover. Klopp kept Kehl at Dortmund until age 35 so why not Lucas? A great character and veteran to have in the squad especially given his Champions League experience.

One big difference is, Kehl was a regular starter though even at the end of his career, he was blighted by injuries, but when he was fit he started a lot of games.
Plus Lucas is still only 30, he could have another good 3 or 4 seasons left at a high level, can't blame him for wanting to go and try and be a regular elsewhere.

[amirani]

If you can't accept throwaway comments then get off a forum mate. There were several posts regarding his future at the club in this thread. A lot of people seem to think there'll be no room for him but I disagree, I just don't think there's room for him and Klavan together and in that event I'd be gutted if we kept an inferior player over a superior one with more emotional attachment to the club.

No room for Lucas or Klavan? And you're saying Klavan is an inferior Center Back when compared to Lucas?

[Dim Glas]

Where did I say Klavan has been shit? I just said I'd rather have Lucas in the squad than him which may well be a direct choice in the summer should we sign a centre back and a central midfielder as I think everyone on here will rightly be demanding.

where did I say you said he was shit? What a wierd conversation this is, we must be writing in invisible type 

And Klavan is a far better defender than Skrtel was for Liverpool in his last couple seasons here (and that is the Skrtel he was replacing), where he was frankly dreadful at times.   

Klavan has proved to be a solid 3rd/4th choice, and he'll be needed in that role again. It's someone to compete with Lovren that the team needs.

[Gods_Left_Boot]

No room for Lucas or Klavan? And you're saying Klavan is an inferior Center Back when compared to Lucas?

Neither of them is a good enough option at centre back, but Lucas has shown that he can still be a good alternative as a 6. Whether that is reason enough for Klopp to offer him a new contract is a different matter.

Klavan started off the season reasonably well, but his run of games during Matip's absence showed that he can't be relied upon and that he's quite obviously not good enough as a first alternative to the starting CBs, especially as both Matip and Lovren are somewhat injury prone.

[amirani]

Neither of them is a good enough option at centre back, but Lucas has shown that he can still be a good alternative as a 6. Whether that is reason enough for Klopp to offer him a new contract is a different matter.

Klavan started off the season reasonably well, but his run of games during Matip's absence showed that he can't be relied upon and that he's quite obviously not good enough as a first alternative to the starting CBs, especially as both Matip and Lovren are somewhat injury prone.

The same run in December when we went on a 4 game win streak against Boro, Everton, Stoke, Man City. All 4 games had Klavan as one of the starting CBs. We kept clean sheets in 3 of those games and all were away games. Only one conceded which was against Stoke. That's when Matip was out. Is that what you're referring to?

[Dim Glas]

I think I'm right in saying that Klavan has started 13 league games, only 2 of which where lost. Those included away games vs Everton, Man Utd, City and Arsenal too and home games vs Arsenal, City and Spurs, he's played a lot of the big games this season. I know that stat doesn't mean a great deal without looking in detail at performances, but still, I don't think the lad is a liability He's solid.

Damn, this is the Lucas thread, sorry for taking part in the derailing!

[Gods_Left_Boot]

The same run in December when we went on a 4 game win streak against Boro, Everton, Stoke, Man City. All 4 games had Klavan as one of the starting CBs. That's when Matip was out. Is that what you're referring to?

No, I'm mostly talking about January/February, when he had several performances ranging from subpar to very poor (Sunderland, Swansea, Southampton away in the LC) or decent performances ruined by mistakes or shortcomings that led to goals (Mancs away, City away). Also, in one of the 4 matches you selectively highlighted (Stoke at home) he was hardly faultless, and we had a bit of a mare defensively in the first half, despite winning comfortably in the end.

I guess he could be a reasonable option as a 4th CB, in a role similar to what Kolo had the last couple of years at the club (although personally I'd rather have a younger player like Gomez in that role), but as a first alternative that will likely be called upon to start a considerable string of matches, he definitely should be improved upon, IMO. I don't mean to be harsh on him, cause he was signed as a short term fix for a low fee, but it seems quite obvious to me that we'll be in the market for a centre back come the summer.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the Lucas thread.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

The same run in December when we went on a 4 game win streak against Boro, Everton, Stoke, Man City. All 4 games had Klavan as one of the starting CBs. We kept clean sheets in 3 of those games and all were away games. Only one conceded which was against Stoke. That's when Matip was out. Is that what you're referring to?

There's a reason he lost his place as 3rd choice centre half to Lucas Leiva, who had already lost his place as 3rd choice centre half to Klavan, who had already lost his place as 3rd choice centre half to Lucas.

That reason is that neither are good enough for that role. Hence why I think there's only space for one of them in the squad, especially with Joe Gomez knocking about, and I'd prefer that player to be Lucas due to his added ability in midfield, experience in European football, and ties to the club & city.

[Tony19:6]

Worried when I saw the line up against the bitters.

Lucas and Can have come in for a lot of stick this season and rightly so perhaps.

Both of them were excellent against Everton.

[amirani]

No, I'm mostly talking about January/February, when he had several performances ranging from subpar to very poor (Sunderland, Swansea, Southampton away in the LC) or decent performances ruined by mistakes or shortcomings that led to goals (Mancs away, City away). Also, in one of the 4 matches you selectively highlighted (Stoke at home) he was hardly faultless, and we had a bit of a mare defensively in the first half, despite winning comfortably in the end.

I guess he could be a reasonable option as a 4th CB, in a role similar to what Kolo had the last couple of years at the club (although personally I'd rather have a younger player like Gomez in that role), but as a first alternative that will likely be called upon to start a considerable string of matches, he definitely should be improved upon.

Yep, I don't see him as our starting Centerback either. But he is a solid bench option and I think he has done enough to prove that this season.

[So… Howard Philips]

Worried when I saw the line up against the bitters.

Lucas and Can have come in for a lot of stick this season and rightly so perhaps.

Both of them were excellent against Everton.

The problem was it was only Everton, not a decent side.

[Dim Glas]

it's Lovren's position that needs to be looked at in the summer, not Klavans. So if you strengthen there, then you have Lovren and Klavan, a new cb good enough to compete with Lovren to start alongside Matip, making 4 experienced enough central defenders. And then Gomez.

[Tony19:6]

The problem was it was only Everton, not a decent side.

True 

[LallanaInPyjamas]

it's Lovren's position that needs to be looked at in the summer, not Klavans. So if you strengthen there, then you have Lovren and Klavan, a new cb good enough to compete with Lovren to start alongside Matip, making 4 experienced enough central defenders. And then Gomez.

And yet we hear from both Klopp and multiple posters on here that we can't possibly block talented youngsters' pathways? Being 5th choice centre back is as far away from the first team as you can get as an outfield player.

[amirani]

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/04/jordan-henderson-hails-lucas-leivas-influence-liverpools-perfect-role-model/

Some nice words for Lucas from our Captain.

[groove]

Those fucking two headers he won after he'd taken a smack to the cheek, I was pissing myself. How is he so good in the air?

[John C]

He was brilliant tonight, at the game he seemed like man of the match.

[DangerScouse]

Bravery personified.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Shouldn't have lost his place as third choice centre half for being slower than Jamie Vardy.

[DaveCharlie]

He was brilliant tonight, at the game he seemed like man of the match.

Agreed - one of the few who seems to give a shit.

[Tony19:6]

Never been a massive Lucas fan, but certainly my MOM tonight and was excellent v the Bitters. Well played.

[Giono]

Yet again, the premature Lucas ejacu-haters before the match are wrong.


His heading and cool head was invaluable versus the land of the giants.


And his headed assist was class too. Turning what was a normal free kick short of the mark into a goal.

[tubby]

Yet again, the premature Lucas ejacu-haters before the match are wrong.

Who were they, don't remember anything in the pre-match to that effect.

[El Lobo]

Yet again, the premature Lucas ejacu-haters before the match are wrong.


His heading and cool head was invaluable versus the land of the giants.


And his headed assist was class too. Turning what was a normal free kick short of the mark into a goal.

Who were they?

[KurtVerbose]

Who were they, don't remember anything in the pre-match to that effect.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=335249.msg15274495#msg15274495

If Lucas plays we are fooked

[Giono]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=335249.msg15274495#msg15274495

Thanks. I don't spend much time in the pre-match threads. But I popped in, saw that, and got out. Perhaps there wasn't a parade of critics this match like before the derby.

On a positive note, I thought it was interesting how deep he played. In many instances he was further back than our central defenders on either side of him. Almost a back 3 for much of the match.