Author Topic: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp  (Read 8650 times)

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #80 on: May 29, 2021, 06:32:18 pm »
Phil Thompson was caretaker for a good few months, and IIRC had a pretty high win percentage.

And Ronnie took over twice.
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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2021, 06:21:50 am »
I wasnt around for most of them so only listing the ones i did watch -
Klopp
Rafa
Houllier
Dalglish
Rodgers
Hodge

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2021, 08:05:31 am »
Putting Rodgers above Evans and Souness is pure madness. :lmao
Rodgers never won any trophy with Liverpool. Never.

Offline blago

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #83 on: May 30, 2021, 08:27:56 am »
Paisley
Shankly
Klopp
Rafa
Fagan
Houllier
Dalglish
Evans
Rodgers
Souness
Hodgson

I have loved most of our managers and some had a much tougher job than others. I've put Benitez fourth, but if he had been backed financially and not been stabbed in the back by boardroom members I think he would have won us at least one title and probably another European Cup as well.
Klopp has done amazingly well and is such a wonderful positive person on top of his management skills. It took someone with tremendous mental strength and character to come in and shoulder the burden of us having not won a league for so long and also cope with challenging a rival with much greater resources.  I really wanted Evans to succeed and I loved the football when it went well but he was too soft on the players and didn't make them act like professionals at all times. Kenny during his first time in charge was imperious but he took over a successful legacy so doesn't earn as many points as others for his achievements.

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #84 on: May 30, 2021, 09:16:00 am »
Putting Rodgers above Evans and Souness is pure madness. :lmao
Rodgers never won any trophy with Liverpool. Never.

You can argue Souness set us back years with his transfer dealings, so his FA Cup win doesn't hold as much weight in the bigger picture?

Offline drmick

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #85 on: May 30, 2021, 09:29:31 am »
You can argue Souness set us back years with his transfer dealings, so his FA Cup win doesn't hold as much weight in the bigger picture?

And did so at the worst possible time in football in terms of TV revenue and English clubs back in Europe.

Offline kezzy

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #86 on: May 30, 2021, 11:09:44 am »
If you win a league or European cup/champions league as Liverpool manager then you deserve legendary status.  I also think Houllier deserves that as well for winning a cup treble.  Absolutely mad season that.

Anyway just a few thoughts.   For me Paisley and Shankly will always be the top two very closely followed by kenny.  Shankly is the man that started it all and went on to have fantastic success.  Not only that but his personality and how charismatic he was elevated him above all managers at the time and he became a messiah like figure to Liverpool fans.  We really where a second division second rate team when he took over and in the space of 5 years he had had us promoted and then made us champions.  He also became the first manager in England to win a league and European double in 73.

Then we come to Paisley.  For me Bob will always be the greatest manager that ever lived.  The amount If trophies he won in the space of 9 years is unbelievable.  13 major trophies in that time and there was 5 doubles included in that.  People will say he inherited a successful team from Shankly but he was Bill’s right hand man and helped that team be successful.  Not only that he had the hardest job in world football replacing a manager as revered as Shankly who was a god like figure to Liverpool fans.  The pressure he must have been under must have been immense.

So just to put that into context, United have had two very successful managers in their history Busby and Ferguson who are revered by their fans.  The managers who replaced them all crumbled under the pressure and the weight of expectation trying to live up to their legacy.  United where relegated just 6 seasons after winning the European cup under Busby, always brings a smile to my face that, Paisley was onto his fourth league title with 3 European trophies under his belt as well 6 years after replacing Shankly.  Then since Ferguson left United have gone 8 years without getting anywhere near to winning the title and have now gone 4 years without a trophy despite spending more money than anyone else in world football apart from the cheats and also employing a couple of managers with proven track records so that shows how hard it is to replace a legend and Paisley not only thrived under the pressure of replacing Shankly he went on to surpass him.

Now onto Dalglish.  Kenny was a 34 years old footballer with not a single days managerial experience behind him when he was given the Liverpool managers job.  Not only that he took over in the aftermath of the darkest period in our clubs history.  To the outside world we where the pariahs of football, and even though football hooliganism was rife with all English clubs playing in Europe every other team blamed us for getting English clubs banned so the pressure Kenny was under from the off must have been massive.  Then on top of that Everton, yes that’s right for the younger readers, Everton had just won a league and European double.  So that team of no marks from across Stanley park who haven’t won a trophy in 26 years back then where top dogs and had taken our crown from us.  Again the pressure on Kenny shoulders to redress that must have been immense. 

In his first season he became the first player manager to win the league, the first player manager to win the FA cup and the only player manager in the history of English football to do a league and cup double.  In his 5 full seasons He went on to win 3 titles and was runner up twice, two FA cups and was also runner up in another one and a league cup final.  Also if it wasn’t for the ridiculous pressure the  FA put us under to finish the season on time after Hillsborough he would have won another league and cup double.  It was fuckin scandalous the amount of games we had to play to finish the season on time.  He also led this club with absolute class and dignity after the hillsborough disaster and will forever get my eternal gratitude for doing so.

Anyway I think what Klopp has done has been unbelievable and I think he will deserve to be in the same company when he wins his next title or champions league or both which I have no doubt whatsoever that he will do. 



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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2021, 01:00:39 pm »
If you win a league or European cup/champions league as Liverpool manager then you deserve legendary status.  I also think Houllier deserves that as well for winning a cup treble.  Absolutely mad season that.

Anyway just a few thoughts.   For me Paisley and Shankly will always be the top two very closely followed by kenny.  Shankly is the man that started it all and went on to have fantastic success.  Not only that but his personality and how charismatic he was elevated him above all managers at the time and he became a messiah like figure to Liverpool fans.  We really where a second division second rate team when he took over and in the space of 5 years he had had us promoted and then made us champions.  He also became the first manager in England to win a league and European double in 73.

Then we come to Paisley.  For me Bob will always be the greatest manager that ever lived.  The amount If trophies he won in the space of 9 years is unbelievable.  13 major trophies in that time and there was 5 doubles included in that.  People will say he inherited a successful team from Shankly but he was Bill’s right hand man and helped that team be successful.  Not only that he had the hardest job in world football replacing a manager as revered as Shankly who was a god like figure to Liverpool fans.  The pressure he must have been under must have been immense.

So just to put that into context, United have had two very successful managers in their history Busby and Ferguson who are revered by their fans.  The managers who replaced them all crumbled under the pressure and the weight of expectation trying to live up to their legacy.  United where relegated just 6 seasons after winning the European cup under Busby, always brings a smile to my face that, Paisley was onto his fourth league title with 3 European trophies under his belt as well 6 years after replacing Shankly.  Then since Ferguson left United have gone 8 years without getting anywhere near to winning the title and have now gone 4 years without a trophy despite spending more money than anyone else in world football apart from the cheats and also employing a couple of managers with proven track records so that shows how hard it is to replace a legend and Paisley not only thrived under the pressure of replacing Shankly he went on to surpass him.

Now onto Dalglish.  Kenny was a 34 years old footballer with not a single days managerial experience behind him when he was given the Liverpool managers job.  Not only that he took over in the aftermath of the darkest period in our clubs history.  To the outside world we where the pariahs of football, and even though football hooliganism was rife with all English clubs playing in Europe every other team blamed us for getting English clubs banned so the pressure Kenny was under from the off must have been massive.  Then on top of that Everton, yes that’s right for the younger readers, Everton had just won a league and European double.  So that team of no marks from across Stanley park who haven’t won a trophy in 26 years back then where top dogs and had taken our crown from us.  Again the pressure on Kenny shoulders to redress that must have been immense. 

In his first season he became the first player manager to win the league, the first player manager to win the FA cup and the only player manager in the history of English football to do a league and cup double.  In his 5 full seasons He went on to win 3 titles and was runner up twice, two FA cups and was also runner up in another one and a league cup final.  Also if it wasn’t for the ridiculous pressure the  FA put us under to finish the season on time after Hillsborough he would have won another league and cup double.  It was fuckin scandalous the amount of games we had to play to finish the season on time.  He also led this club with absolute class and dignity after the hillsborough disaster and will forever get my eternal gratitude for doing so.

Anyway I think what Klopp has done has been unbelievable and I think he will deserve to be in the same company when he wins his next title or champions league or both which I have no doubt whatsoever that he will do.

top post mate - totally agree

klopp is magnificent so is a king in waiting for me



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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2021, 02:40:35 pm »
I put them in order of how they personally affected me as in going to the matches - complete seasons of home and aways domestically and in Europe.

Obviously Shanks and Bob would be right at #1 and #2 if it was just history, but in terms of stuff I actually did - those are the managers that 'meant more to me personally' - otherwise everyone would obviously just have the same list.

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Offline Onward Liverpudlian

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2021, 02:48:05 pm »
Top tier:

Shankly and Paisley

Second tier (In no particular order):

Klopp*, Kenny, Fagan, Benitez, Houllier

Third tier:

The rest apart from 'The Hodge'...

Bottom tier:

The Hodge.

(*has a real chance of joining the top tier - after a prolonged spell as manager with further league, european and world titles)


Offline Melbred

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #90 on: May 30, 2021, 03:01:20 pm »
Klopp is only behind Paisley and Shankly.. with time to overtake.

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #91 on: May 30, 2021, 03:53:18 pm »
I've been at this for half an hour and the only thing I keep agreeing with is last place. Looking at that list, haven't we been blessed?
I'm a Shankly man so I can't pretend to be neutral. He holds a special place in my heart, God like status but he is where it started, he built the foundations, it's hard to see it all happening without him. Who knows we might have ended up as a Newcastle without his era.
The hardest thing for me, was Jurgen edging out Kenny. I still feel uneasy about it.
Shankly
Paisley
Klopp
Dalglish
Benitez
Houllier
Fagan
Rodgers
Souness
Evans
Hodgson

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #92 on: May 30, 2021, 04:36:09 pm »
I've been at this for half an hour and the only thing I keep agreeing with is last place. Looking at that list, haven't we been blessed?
I'm a Shankly man so I can't pretend to be neutral. He holds a special place in my heart, God like status but he is where it started, he built the foundations, it's hard to see it all happening without him. Who knows we might have ended up as a Newcastle without his era.
The hardest thing for me, was Jurgen edging out Kenny. I still feel uneasy about it.
Shankly
Paisley
Klopp
Dalglish
Benitez
Houllier
Fagan
Rodgers
Souness
Evans
Hodgson

You don’t think you have to feel uneasy about it!
I get that Kenny with his longevity and also what he did after Hillsborough is important in the off field side of things.

But Kloppo won the league after 30 years, there cannot be any denying what an absolutly huge achievement that is, and what a big deal it is, but it’s been understated somewhat in some lists it seems. Then along with him winning the champions league, means for me there is zero unease about him behind ‘just’ Shanks and Sir Bob. In fact, that’s the only place he can be.

One that is being hard done by though here is Fagan.

Offline John C

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #93 on: May 30, 2021, 08:53:59 pm »
Paisley
Shankly
Klopp / Dalglish
Fagan
Rafa / Houllier
Evans / Rodgers
Souness

Offline Red1976

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #94 on: May 30, 2021, 11:29:45 pm »
The problem with such a question / poll is that it is generational. People forget David Ashworth who won the title as manager with us in 1921/22 and would have done so again in 1922 / 1923 if he never left; strangely for the bottom club? In his first season he would now, have got us a champions league place (4th). Then there is Tom Watson division 1 winner in 1901 and 1906.

 IMO Bob Paisley is number one and Shankly number 2. The reason being is that Shankly never had any pressure on him when he took over from Phil Taylor.  Paisley did, due to the success Liverpool had under Shankly. I have argued with idiots who said it is easy to take over the management of a success team -well history tells us otherwise! 

Klopp at the moment is there with Joe Fagan and below Kenny Dalglish.

The bottom of the list: well IMO it is not Souness. You could go for Roy Evans or George Patterson or Don Welsh.

History is a fascinating thing: We could have had Matt Busby as manager, as he played for us and the Liverpool directors were keen to add him to the coaching staff. But he decided to go to Manchester United instead and win the European cup!

Offline Billy Elliot

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #95 on: May 31, 2021, 07:13:16 pm »
The problem with such a question / poll is that it is generational. People forget David Ashworth who won the title as manager with us in 1921/22 and would have done so again in 1922 / 1923 if he never left; strangely for the bottom club? In his first season he would now, have got us a champions league place (4th). Then there is Tom Watson division 1 winner in 1901 and 1906.



Pre Shankly, the manager didn't have any say as to who came / left the club. I'm pretty sure they didn't pick the team either. I'm sure I've heard a story of when Shankly first got the job and the board told him they'd let him know their team selection by the Thursday. I can't remember what he said but it was along the lines of them sticking the job up their arses if he wasn't selecting the team.

So I don't really count anybody pre-Shankly as the managers role at the club was nothing much more than a coaching role.
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Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #96 on: June 2, 2021, 04:36:03 pm »
I’ve enjoyed reading this thread, we really have been blessed to have had so many outstanding managers.

When it comes to ranking them, I guess a lot depends on what you value most. I think you can, in a very quick and dirty way, loosely categorise our top managers into two camps:

1) Those that turned the club around (as well as winning a fair bit of silverware)

Shankly – joined a team in the second tier and established them as the best team in the country and a decent European proposition. Established is the key word here. Other clubs have made the leap from second tier to champions in a short amount of time, establishing them as the top team is what separates Shanks.

Houllier – dragged our club kicking and screaming into the modern era, clearing out the bad attitude and losing mentality that had taken hold and ushering in a new era of success.

Klopp – turned a club of doubters into a club of believers. Rid us of the biggest monkey that any top club has ever had on their back by winning the first league title in 30 years – TICK. Took a low spending (relative to our rivals) club from 6th place in England to the best team in England, Europe and the world – TICK. Took us from a disastrous 2014/15 to a team playing arguably the highest level of football (97pts, 99pts, CL winners, CL runners up in a two year period) that any club has ever played in English football – TICK.

2) Those that built on their predecessors foundations to take the club to new heights


Paisley – Took the best team in England and made them the undisputed best team in Europe for almost a decade. Thanks to him, we’re one of only 5 clubs to have an entire era as the dominant club side in Europe. Madrid, Ajax, Bayern, Us and Barca. And his trophy haul is insane. For my money, the most impressive trophy haul of any manager in English football history.   

Fagan – Picked up the baton from Paisley and, although his tenure was brief, gave us our most impressive season in terms of trophies won, 1983/84.

Dalglish – Carried on the trophy hoarding after Fagan and gave us the team that some say was our best ever, 1987/88. Also gave us our first (and, so far, only) League & FA Cup double, back in the days when that really was a big deal, before the FA Cup became a reserve team tournament.

Benitez – Took the foundation that Houllier built and ran with it. Boy did he run with it. Made us European champions in our first season, FA Cup winners in the second and back in the CL final the year after. Officially the best team in Europe for a period (as per UEFA’s famous coefficient). All this against the backdrop of two parasites draining our club dry. To achieve what he did in those circumstances is incredible.


I wouldn’t put the other 4 into either of the above categories.



So, given all that, I’d rank them like this:

Tier 1) Shankly and Paisley. I just can’t split them. One built the club, the other is the most successful.

Tier 2) Klopp. Pretty sure he’ll be Tier 1 in a couple of years.

Tier 3) Rafa and Dalglish.

Tier 4) Houllier and Fagan.

Tier 5) Rodgers. Created one of our most exhilarating teams ever and gave us one of the most fun seasons any of us has experienced. Enjoying the moment counts for a lot in my mind and few, if any, seasons have ever topped 13/14 for that. Like Rafa and Klopp, he was unlucky to have managed in an era in which we’re up against so many teams with an unfair financial advantage over us, so I’m not counting having won less pots than Souness and Evans against him.

Tier 6) Souness and Evans. Thanks for the FA Cup and League Cup.

Tier 7) Hodgson. Wrong man in the wrong job at the wrong time. Just wrong.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #97 on: June 3, 2021, 12:22:13 pm »
Impossible question really, as without Shankly everything that came after doesn't happen. We could still be in the second or third division waiting for our first major trophy since 1947.
I'll always have Bob as my personal favourite because he was manager when I was a kid. And on trophies alone, he's the clear top.

Kenny's time in charge was hindered by the European ban and who's to say we wouldn't have won a European Cup or two in those years. Did amazingly well to come back after many years out of the game, to become the only Liverpool manager to win the full set of domestic honours (League, FA cup and League Cup).

Fagan was desperately unlucky in 1985, a year he could conceivably have won his second treble in a row, but for Heysel and Everton hitting their peak. Should have won the FA cup that year too had Nicol not missed a sitter against Man Utd in the semi replay. Who's to say what he might have achieved had he got the job as a younger man, or stayed in the job longer.

Souness and Evans basically had the job of catching a falling sword. Souness certainly made mistakes but at least he had the balls to realise big changes were needed and he tried his best to make them. We played some great football under Roy who was up against a fully functioning Man Utd operating at their fullest potential for the first time since Busby. Which was something that Kenny, Bob and Joe didn't have to contend with.

Houllier and Benitez are much of a muchness for me. Both did admirable jobs with the hands they were dealt. Had Shevchenko not missed that sitter in extra time in Istanbul, the conversation around Rafa might be a bit different. Both his trophies were won on penalty shoot-outs. Fine margins. As well as being up against one of the best Utd sides ever in '09, Rafa also had Roman's Chelsea to deal with.
Houllier's achievements were under-rated I think. We became a force in Europe again under him, and that cup treble is not likely to be repeated any time soon.

Rodgers did well enough to be fair, given it was his first big job and the squad wasn't exactly stuffed with talent. 2014 was a year I'll never forget, but ultimately the job was just too big for the stage in his career that he was at, and his lack of experience cost him in the end.

Klopp's story is still being written, but he'll already go down as one of the greats, taking us from 8th in the league to the best side in the world, bringing the title back to Anfield and winning the club's first World club cup. Winning the European Cup while hitting 97 points in the league is arguably our greatest season ever.

So they've all contributed in their own way. But it all starts with a man with a vision of a bastion of invincibility. And without that, all our football lives would have been very different.

I don't count Hodgey as he was appointed by people who were only in temporary charge of the club. So in effect, he was really just a caretaker manager. And even then, he'd still be behind Ronnie Moran and Phil Thompson.
« Last Edit: June 3, 2021, 12:37:14 pm by kennedy81 »

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #98 on: June 3, 2021, 12:24:38 pm »
I still find it bizarre to see Kenny and Rafa on the same level. Rafa was great but Kenny is just on another level completely in terms of achievement and his all round impact.

Offline kb2x

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #99 on: June 3, 2021, 01:03:10 pm »
I can only judge by managers I have overseen and watched personally, so from Souness it starts

Klopp
Benitez
Houllier
Dalglish
Rodgers
Evans
Souness
Hodgson

I never thought Benitez could be toppled, but I just fucking love Jurgen.

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #100 on: June 3, 2021, 01:18:38 pm »
I still find it bizarre to see Kenny and Rafa on the same level. Rafa was great but Kenny is just on another level completely in terms of achievement and his all round impact.

It's true Kenny was tremendous, but you have to take into consideration the bang average side we had winning #5 with Rafa, and while we improved, we also made it back to the final two years later. We were punching above our weight with him for years, we had some quality players but we were way behind compared to other sides at the time.

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #101 on: June 7, 2021, 07:10:01 pm »
How do you rank a manager ;D

In my lifetime.

Benitez, would have gone to war for the man.
Klopp
Houllier
Rodgers
Evans

No point listing hodgy.

That’s pretty much it for me, other then I’d have to add Souness in between Evans and Hodgy. As much I love Klopp, Rafa has a special place for me. I fell out of love with football towards the end of the Ged era (I was also at Uni then so had other things to enjoy to be fair) and Rafa just bought the love and interest back, then there’s Istanbul and that’s something I’ll always be greatful for.
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Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #102 on: June 7, 2021, 07:20:59 pm »
In terms of contribution to our history and development into the club we are now:

Shankly
Paisley
Dalglish
Houllier
Klopp
Rafa

In terms of ability as a manager and success

Paisley
Klopp
Shankly
Rafa
Dalglish
Houllier

Last one is harsh on Dalglish as he didn’t get a chance to lead us to European glory.
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Offline Oldmanmick

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #103 on: June 7, 2021, 07:31:38 pm »
So no one rates Hodgson then ?

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Re: Ranking of manager from Shankly to Klopp
« Reply #104 on: June 7, 2021, 08:00:45 pm »
You can argue Souness set us back years with his transfer dealings, so his FA Cup win doesn't hold as much weight in the bigger picture?

So no one rates Hodgson then ?

Thinking about it, I’m putting Souness at the bottom and Hodgson one place above Souness. Looking at the context of what Souness took over and the resources at his disposal compared to what Hodgson had with a club that was pretty much broken at that point, Souness pips it as the worst.
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