Topic: Liverpool's Midfield

[christofu]

He wasn't really wide right, was he?  Seemed to me that he was playing a similar role to what Hendo usually plays but, since they are two completely different players, he obviously played it differently.  I was really hoping that we were going to play a different formation then what we usually do yesterday with Gini playing alongside Thiago and Bobby as the #10.  I just don't think Ox is good enough for us in a midfield 3 at the moment.

Agreed, I was ok we started the way we did but thought when Shaqiri came on we might switch to our other formation but it looked the same shape to me and didn't seem to ask any new questions of Southampton.

In our system we should be turning him into a right back

+1

[Fiasco]

In our system we should be turning him into a right back

I'm not sure Ox has the physical capability to play there. He has the physical attributes yes, but for a while now he struggles to see out the game and fades. And a player like Ox who is very prone to injury doesn't seem a perfect fit for a position that requires a player to be up and down the pitch a lot.

I know that might sound a bit strange because he's more of a box-to-box type for us, but I just don't see it. If he could stay fit then yes but he almost certainly wont.

[Kashinoda]

If Matip is back we need to so fuck it and play him alongside Williams or Phillips against United.

Fab, Hendo and Thiago in midfield. It's worth what we lose at the back right now.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

If Matip is back we need to so fuck it and play him alongside Williams or Phillips against United.

Fab, Hendo and Thiago in midfield. It's worth what we lose at the back right now.

They're going to expose us on the counter with their pace with Phillips at the back.

[Kashinoda]

They're going to expose us on the counter with their pace with Phillips at the back.

They'll expose us more if we don't smother them in midfield.

By trying to patch up the defense we're cutting off our nose to spite our face.

[Fromola]

Honestly think we'd have been better off yesterday with Phillips and Williams at the back and Fabinho and Henderson in midfield with Thiago. Neither was ideal, not saying that's what we should have done as it brings its own problems, but you're losing out too much in midfield as well as having no natural defenders. It just brings the whole side down.

I've said for ages Wijnaldum is too often a passenger in these away games (not the rampaging all-round midfielder he is at Anfield) and added to Ox being a waste of a shirt after a long term injury and Thiago left on his own to deal with Southampton's high energy press, when he's barely played himself.

Fabinho has been a huge miss in midfield this season.

[RednGreen]

This fucking Thiago bellend, I swear he has the look of a Schweinsteiger all over him.  Bayern don't let decent midfielders that aren't on the slide leave their club.

[Simplexity]

This fucking Thiago bellend, I swear he has the look of a Schweinsteiger all over him.  Bayern don't let decent midfielders that aren't on the slide leave their club.

Terrible bait that.

[Suareznumber7]

This fucking Thiago bellend, I swear he has the look of a Schweinsteiger all over him.  Bayern don't let decent midfielders that aren't on the slide leave their club.

Nice try.   

[eddiedingle]

This fucking Thiago bellend, I swear he has the look of a Schweinsteiger all over him.  Bayern don't let decent midfielders that aren't on the slide leave their club.

Superb first post 

[rubber soul]

This fucking Thiago bellend, I swear he has the look of a Schweinsteiger all over him.  Bayern don't let decent midfielders that aren't on the slide leave their club.

Oh great, we've got one here. 

[smurfinaus]

Anyone concerned our two CM who have attributes to do well going forward are either oftinjured or seem to need a run of games to actually start doing well? (Ox + Keita)..

[Fiasco]

What, I don't know why we went for an aging midfielder anyway.  We've already got an aging midfield and we add a player that will take at least a year to settle and will be 30 in 4 months.  Makes no sense.

Put runners next to Thiago and he'll be pulling strings and passing teams to death when he's 35. Terrible effort, 3/10.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Anyone concerned our two CM who have attributes to do well going forward are either oftinjured or seem to need a run of games to actually start doing well? (Ox + Keita)..

Thiago can play further forward

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

What, I don't know why we went for an aging midfielder anyway.  We've already got an aging midfield and we add a player that will take at least a year to settle and will be 30 in 4 months.  Makes no sense.

We got the Forest Gump of Red Cafe here

[RyanBabel19]

People are losing it

Ox has been out how long? And he’s been back how long? People giving him stick ridiculous. Must be some insane athletes on here because expectations are stupidly high

[tubby]

Is it time to look at the way we set up our midfield and try to get more goal contributions from that area of the pitch?  It's always been a functional midfield under Klopp and the goals from the front three and creativity from the fullbacks has justified that approach.  But when the chances start to dry up for the forwards and we just end up spamming cross after cross with nothing to show for it, we should really be looking to the midfield to provide more of a goal threat, if only to mix things up a little.

- Gini is more than capable, he's excellent at breaking into the box (as he's shown for Holland) but he's got a real safety-first approach in our midfield, working hard, covering advancing fullbacks and not being particularly expansive with his passing.
- Henderson is similar to Gini and is a more direct passer with a decent cross on him and can also burst forward, but he's also busy covering the fullbacks.  Not the best finisher either.
- Thiago will provide more creativity but he's not going to be making runs past the forwards, he sits deep.
- Ox, Minamino and Shaq all offer more going forward but they're clearly not part of Klopp's ideal midfield, probably due to their lack of defensive diligence in comparison to Henderson and Wijnaldum.  And even when they do play, they have the same instruction to drop in behind the fullback when Trent or Robbo push on.
- Jones looks like he fits the bill, offering the tactical understanding of his defensive duties and with more game time, his offensive contributions will really grow.
- Keita is always injured.

We never really play through midfield.  Tonight we had two midfielders at centre back, Thiago, Gini and Ox in the middle, all players who are comfortable in possession, but we just couldn't play through the middle against a rigid 442 and get Bobby on the ball in that 10 position.  We just don't move the ball through the middle at all, always goes wide.

We've got the players who can do it and I'd just like to see some runs through midfield to move the opposition around and give them something else to think about.  City are a different team to us, I know, but they're really good at this and one of the reasons they always score those cut-back goals is because they all have licence to pop up in different positions by making those runs in behind.  Their central midfielders drift into way more advanced positions that ours do and their movement is much more fluid.  Leeds have players who bomb on all over the pitch and it really messed up West Brom's ultra defensive tactics.  Slowly working it wide for crosses into packed boxes is the last thing we should be doing against teams who sit deep and compact.

The defensive midfield and creative fullback tactic has worked so well for us but it just feels like with games like today, it'd be good to have another option.  A more fluid and attacking midfield is less stable defensively, sure, but it'd be good to have another string to our bow.

Same again, no midfielders breaking past the forwards.  We're so easy to defend against with a low block and runners from deep is a tactic we should be looking at employing.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

We're playing with a hand-break because we're playing with either 2 mdifielders as CB's or a Fabinho with one of Williams/Phillips. This is less of an issue when Matip is playing alongside Fabinho, but when he isn't, then we can't be as open as we'd like to. Even Trent is taking positions deeper than usual

[Haggis36]

We're playing with a hand-break because we're playing with either 2 mdifielders as CB's or a Fabinho with one of Williams/Phillips. This is less of an issue when Matip is playing alongside Fabinho, but when he isn't, then we can't be as open as we'd like to. Even Trent is taking positions deeper than usual

We haven't played football through the midfield for atleast 18 months now though. The attacking full backs and negative midfield worked well for a period of time, but now the team looks woefully misbalanced.  More to the point, opposition sides cut through us at will.

Good sides have threats all over the pitch but when we play, unless Sadio/Mo create something from scratch, or Robertson/Trent put a good ball in in between the million spammed crosses, you know we won't be scoring.

[Coolie High]

We're playing with a hand-break because we're playing with either 2 mdifielders as CB's or a Fabinho with one of Williams/Phillips. This is less of an issue when Matip is playing alongside Fabinho, but when he isn't, then we can't be as open as we'd like to. Even Trent is taking positions deeper than usual

Yep Trent looked like a 3rd cb almost today, we were truly blessed with having two of the fastest CBs in Europe in VVD and Gomez.

Neville actually made a good point about us not being able to sustain our attacks and pressure because our two most athletic ball winners our at the back.

I think this is partly true even though they did well it does have a knock on effect in not being able to squeeze teams into their half for sustainable periods, plus we ignore quite how good on the ball Fabinho is as well, many a time it was actually him who came it’s the pass to split defences last season with those loopy long balls over the top he likes to do.

[Clint Eastwood]

I feel like we really lack something from our midfield on the edge of the box. Most of our goals come from the wings. We don’t really have any guile or ingenuity from the middle.

Maybe a consequence of our midfielders covering for our full-backs most of the time.

[Oldmanmick]

With having to play Fabinho & Henderson covering as centre-backs for VVD & Gomez we're effectively 4 top class players down from the side that romped the league last year. Henderson is seriously under-rated by a lot of people outside Anfield, but he can really help turn the screw by playing a more advanced midfield role when we're struggling to break a team down. Not signing a more than decent centre back before the window closes is going to cost us this season I fear.

[arbiarbi]

I don't know why no one wants to admit it, but Wijnaldum is our worst player at the moment. Perhaps the most overrated Liverpool player in the last 10 years.
he is a player less on the pitch, he hides in attack, insecure when he receives the ball, he makes no difference in any way.
Had 38 passes today out of 572 of the whole team. It is a devastating fact, and an equally devastating fact is that he has not had assist for more than 2 years.
He

[HomesickRed]

Wijnaldum isn't the problem, it's our set up.
Outside our front three, and Mane and Salah in particular the rest of the team has provided about half a dozen goals between them since October.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Thiago is world class in the deeper role but I genuinely believe he's wasted there. Once Matip is back we need to get him higher up the pitch combining with our forwards. His dribbling and ability from range will open up more space for them.

[Naby Lad]

Thiago is world class in the deeper role but I genuinely believe he's wasted there. Once Matip is back we need to get him higher up the pitch combining with our forwards. His dribbling and ability from range will open up more space for them.

Until Fabinho is back in midfield (so next season) we probably won’t see it.

Fabinho, Thiago, Keita... imagine that all fit and firing.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Until Fabinho is back in midfield (so next season) we probably won’t see it.

Fabinho, Thiago, Keita... imagine that all fit and firing.

I don't think fit and firing and Keita belong in the same sentence.

Hendo can play deep once Matip is back. He has his limitations there, but with a world class player like Thiago to pass to its less of an issue, especially as Thiago's presence should open the flanks up a little more for Hendo's big switches. We're hitting a Rafa/Gerrard-esque point in time where we need Thiago's attacking skills more than his controlling skills.

[Naby Lad]

I don't think fit and firing and Keita belong in the same sentence.

Hendo can play deep once Matip is back. He has his limitations there, but with a world class player like Thiago to pass to its less of an issue. We're hitting a Rafa/Gerrard-esque point in time where we need Thiago's attacking skills more than his controlling skills.

Yeah Keita has frustrated the fuck out of me because I watched him a decent amount at RBL and he was a different animal. I’m hoping so much he can magically just find some fitness because having him and Thiago either side of Fabinho would be unreal. Our very own Casemiro/Kroos/Modric level midfield.

[24/7]

This fucking Thiago bellend, I swear he has the look of a Schweinsteiger all over him.  Bayern don't let decent midfielders that aren't on the slide leave their club.

*deep breath*



Bye

[OperationIvy]

Wijnaldum isn't the problem, it's our set up.
Outside our front three, and Mane and Salah in particular the rest of the team has provided about half a dozen goals between them since October.

I think Wijnaldum is actually a massive problem for our midfield.

Every time he passes the ball he just stands there. So many 1-2 opportunities to create space, speed up the play and advance the ball and he doesnt move. "pass and move" FFS.

Dont know whether hes given up because of the contract issue but I think now Ox or Shaq should be ahead of him in the first 11.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I think Wijnaldum is actually a massive problem for our midfield.

Every time he passes the ball he just stands there. So many 1-2 opportunities to create space, speed up the play and advance the ball and he doesnt move. "pass and move" FFS.

Dont know whether hes given up because of the contract issue but I think now Ox or Shaq should be ahead of him in the first 11.

No he hasn't given up, but that's the role he plays under Klopp. For Holland he's a different player all together, with a different role.

[OperationIvy]

No he hasn't given up, but that's the role he plays under Klopp. For Holland he's a different player all together, with a different role.

But if Thiago or Hendo is playing there is really no need for him to hold back.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

But if Thiago or Hendo is playing there is really no need for him to hold back.

Perhaps not, but that depends ultimately on the manager and instructions given.

[King_doggerel]

In my view Thiago is wasted at #6. We need to play 4231 and put him at #10 supporting Divock. Salah and Mane flanking him, Gini and Hendo behind him.

[tubby]

In my view Thiago is wasted at #6. We need to play 4231 and put him at #10 supporting Divock. Salah and Mane flanking him, Gini and Hendo behind him.

He's never really played as a 10, has he?  Could easily swap with Gini and offer more creativity further up the midfield.

It's tricky for us to play with a true 10 if Firmino is in the team, it just doesn't work.

[JRed]

I would like to see Thiago further forward. He was putting a lot of good passes in to players at the edge of the box, who would then just lose the ball. Maybe he could create a few chances in the box if he was further forward. One things for sure, we have to try something different.

[Clint Eastwood]

I want Fab back in midfield. We never seem to win the second balls anymore. Thiago needs to be higher up the pitch, he’s not bad at defending but he’s a fouling machine. Fabinho has done an excellent job at the back but we miss him badly in midfield.

[mickeydocs]

I want Fab back in midfield. We never seem to win the second balls anymore. Thiago needs to be higher up the pitch, he’s not bad at defending but he’s a fouling machine. Fabinho has done an excellent job at the back but we miss him badly in midfield.

Henderson is an excellent 6. We need Fabinho in defence.

[Clint Eastwood]

Henderson is an excellent 6. We need Fabinho in defence.

He’s alright, but there’s a reason we signed Fabinho in the first place. Henderson hasn’t been great as a 6 this season, and like Thiago, is better higher up the pitch. The midfield I want to see is Fabinho with Henderson and Thiago ahead of him. Obviously that’s not possible right now.

[Clint Eastwood]

So what do our midfielders actually do?

3 goals, 6 assists from midfield in the league all season. Pass the responsibility on to the front three at every opportunity. Seem afraid to shoot.

Then you look at the output from City's midfielders. They always seem to find a spark from somewhere.