Topic: Fulham 2-0 Liverpool: match reports, comment and analysis

[Rille]

Can only find one word... embaressment...

Fulham (including Josemi) - Liverpool 2-0

[AdamBrunt]

Poor performance, how many chances did we create - 2 or 3 maybe? Not enough and worst of all is the poor defending that led to both goals too. Don't understand the with-hunt of Josemi. He was at fault for letting the cross in for the first goal but the unit as a whole for not being able to clear it or deal with it when it came back in

Maybe I am missing something but ... how is a right back at fault for a goal that was scored down our left side

[redmonkey]

Only good point was Kewell.  I'm hoping that he can supply some ammunition for Crouch and Morientes throughout the rest of the season

Josemi and Tarore were poor, but the failings in the transfer market were the problem

[Guz-kop]

Maybe I am missing something but ... how is a right back at fault for a goal that was scored down our left side

Not sure I get you?

I'm saying Josemi was at fault for letting the fulham player (cant remember who it was, boa morte maybe) crossing the ball in initally for the first goal but sami/momo/carra couldn't clear the cross very far nor deal with it when it came back in towards John.

[Gnurglan]

I wish we'd play with a greater tempo in league matches, particularly away from home. Why does it so often take us to conceed a goal before we start passing the ball around with purpose and speed?

Very good question. Absolutely agree with the idea. There's nothing wrong with trying to control the game initially, or to keep the home team at an arm's length. But we can play. We have got a lot of qualities and we need to trust them more.

[-Gianni-]

Can only find one word... embaressment...

Fulham (including Josemi) - Liverpool 2-0

*cough*scapegoat*cough*

[WalkinAlone]

Liverpool were absouloutley miserable today and it's these types of games that they need to win if they want to be a top two side. The win for Fulham leaves them in fourteenth whilst the defeat for Liverpool leaves them just two places ahead of Fulham in twelfeth.

[jward85]

*cough*scapegoat*cough*

Its all very well claiming hes a scapegoat, and fair enough, people may be over the top in some of their comments, but the fact remains, he was absolutely atrocious today, and has done nothing to suggest that he is anything better than a poor player in his entire Liverpool career.

[Keg]

Saw the match live and have just watched a repeat, we were dire and josemi was shocking, he was to blame for the opener as his lazy ass failed to move up with the rest of the defensive line..the fella is another diabolicol signng from rafa...Putting European performances to one side and referring solely to the premiership, for me there are a number of worrying signs that rafa is still clueless in the league, 15 months of premiership football and he is inept as ever, facts, last season 37 points of the top with 14 defeats, this season already 17 points of the top, suffered worst home defeat since 1969, scored just 5 goals from 8 games, he spent 7 Million on Crouch, persists with traore, josemi, garcia, none of whom will move us forward, ...problem no.1 - Squad rotation and changing systems - doesn't work!! players looked lost, theres no cohesion or fluidity within the team...Hamann should have played in a central midfield trio alongside Sissoko and Alonso. no.2 Carra pointed out that liverpool do well in Europe because it is not a battle, but in the premiership the players get blown away...physically, liverpool are weak in many areas, especially in terms of speed, two full backs traore and josemi get skinned regularly, Morientes is ridiculously slow, hes in the wrong league, its too fast and physical. Can rafa Motivate the players??..i dont see fight from a few players when the going gets tough over. Thus far, rafa has badly failed in the premiership, he comes out with lame houllier like excuses after yet another sorry defeat. In the premiership. Ive yet to see any improvement 15 months on.

[-Gianni-]

Its all very well claiming hes a scapegoat, and fair enough, people may be over the top in some of their comments, but the fact remains, he was absolutely atrocious today, and has done nothing to suggest that he is anything better than a poor player in his entire Liverpool career.

Fair enough, he had a bad game but was no worse than alot of other of our lads.

Lets just say I would have hated to have seen some of the comments on here if he had of done what Carragher did for their second goal.

[notyouraverage]

'doh' if we only have one game like this all season i might forget about this. Can't afford to have games like these and why is it always 2-nil, e.g southampton, birmingham

[whitey1234]

Lots of chances created.Josemi poor, traore and nando same.all we can do is grit our teeth and see what january brings.There were some positive signs against blackburn( or be it against 10 men)Garcia made a difference and djib did well on the right.How long can we say we are not getting the breaks.Lets qualify against anderlecht and hope the board dig deep in jan.

[Rushian]

Fair enough, he had a bad game but was no worse than alot of other of our lads.

The problem is he regularly has these bad games, whereas most of the rest of the squad occasionally rise above this level.

[whitey1234]

Saw the match live and have just watched a repeat, we were dire and josemi was shocking, he was to blame for the opener as his lazy ass failed to move up with the rest of the defensive line..the fella is another diabolicol signng from rafa...Putting European performances to one side and referring solely to the premiership, for me there are a number of worrying signs that rafa is still clueless in the league, 15 months of premiership football and he is inept as ever, facts, last season 37 points of the top with 14 defeats, this season already 17 points of the top, suffered worst home defeat since 1969, scored just 5 goals from 8 games, he spent 7 Million on Crouch, persists with traore, josemi, garcia, none of whom will move us forward, ...problem no.1 - Squad rotation and changing systems - doesn't work!! players looked lost, theres no cohesion or fluidity within the team...Hamann should have played in a central midfield trio alongside Sissoko and Alonso. no.2 Carra pointed out that liverpool do well in Europe because it is not a battle, but in the premiership the players get blown away...physically, liverpool are weak in many areas, especially in terms of speed, two full backs traore and josemi get skinned regularly, Morientes is ridiculously slow, hes in the wrong league, its too fast and physical. Can rafa Motivate the players??..i dont see fight from a few players when the going gets tough over. Thus far, rafa has badly failed in the premiership, he comes out with lame houllier like excuses after yet another sorry defeat. In the premiership. Ive yet to see any improvement 15 months on.

fair points.
but he needs cash in January, and i beleive we will be different after christmas. I cant remember when we won a league game with ease, i have to go back to west brom away 0-5(10men w/b) but i may be wrong.We are even labouring at home.

[Roger]

First out of the door should be Morientes. This is not 'knee jerk'. He's just not gonna cut the mustard.

[-Gianni-]

The problem is he regularly has these bad games, whereas most of the rest of the squad occasionally rise above this level.

I thought he was good against Andelecht and a couple of others ive seen him in this season he's been quite good aswell against Sofia.

[Johnnyboy1973]

I thought he was good against Andelecht and a couple of others ive seen him in this season he's been quite good aswell against Sofia.

After the Anderlecht game I decided Josemi is playing the wrong sport.

Rugby league for this boy - couple of those smother tackles out wide are wasted on a football pitch.

[-Gianni-]

After the Anderlecht game I decided Josemi is playing the wrong sport.

Rugby league for this boy - couple of those smother tackles out wide are wasted on a football pitch.

There proper challenges

[Johnnyboy1973]

There proper challenges

Wouldn't go that far. But, they're Josemi challenges for sure.

[Moro19 Tim]

Did anyone at the game see Cisse and Moro arguing?

They clearly hate each other , ive seen on several occasions when Cisse plays with Moro hes gets moody.

Thats bad news , we need team work upfront and quite clearly thats where we lack big time.

I say Garcia should start every game behind striker , has that little magic that we lack every game!

Kewell was excellent once he was actually played on the left

Josemi needs a one way ticket back to Spain IMO , and not too far behind him maybe Traore. Riise or Warnock should always be at left back!!!

[Rushian]

I thought he was good against Andelecht and a couple of others ive seen him in this season he's been quite good aswell against Sofia.

Quite good = reaching the level we should expect 95% of the time. Unfortunately quite good seems to be the occasional peak of his performances.

[-Gianni-]

Quite good = reaching the level we should expect 95% of the time. Unfortunately quite good seems to be the occasional peak of his performances.

Fair enough, but he hasn't played that many remember because Finann is our first choice. I just think Josemi is good backup to Finnan. Also think Finnan is one of the best right backs in the league.

[Rushian]

I rate Finnan highly but Josemi is merely blocking the progress of David Raven, the England U20 fullback.

Mediocre foreign players should not be used to bulk up the squad.

[GerryCrunch]

Things that can improve before January;
1,Team Spirit; there is little togetherness and team toughness on show.
2,Physical fitness and Stamina our lads tire very early in matches
3,Strenght our lads are easily pushed off the ball.
4,Fight our heads go down very easily.
5,Will to win and pride.
All of the above used to be basic Liverpool qualities but now we have moodt weak lazy gutless divers and cheats.
Rafa you have to give up the quiet controlled demeanor which works well in Europe and get noisy and tough and make thes guys fight to win in the league.

[Johnnyboy1973]

I rate Finnan highly but Josemi is merely blocking the progress of David Raven, the England U20 fullback.

Mediocre foreign players should not be used to bulk up the squad.

Oh shit. Did not see that one coming.

But, none the less fair comment. Whilst Raven has never overly impressed me I would have no problem with playing him in his preferred position ahead of Josemi.

[lifelongreds]

I rate Finnan highly but Josemi is merely blocking the progress of David Raven, the England U20 fullback.

Mediocre foreign players should not be used to bulk up the squad.

From .tv (before yesterday's game)

BENITEZ HAPPY WITH JOSEMI FORM
Steve Hunter 22 October 2005

Rafael Benitez has praised his right back Josemi and says he is a different player this season now he is free of injuries.
The Liverpool manager has used Josemi at right back and at centre back this season and says he is a useful player to have in his squad.
 
Benitez said: "I'm happy with Josemi because he is playing well. He started last season playing really well and he was man of the match in our opening game at Tottenham. After that he was injured and continued to have problems during the second part of the season.
 
"Now he is fit again and playing well. He can play as a right back or as a centre back. For us it's another option."

[berkshire_red]

All I can say is it's fortunate for me that British Gas didn't cut me off after my last suicide attempt....

Oh well.....IRWT......

Rafa's is still the man though

[berkshire_red]

OK, Ladbroke's have done me out of my tenner over the league win flutter, but to be honest Chelsea aren't gonna be caught, especially with Manure held and Arsenal the way they have been, so it was always gonna be a big ask to turn -37 points into a shiny League trophy. Gotta say, saw the match on Sky tonight and we didn't really suck.....just unlucky in a way....gotta take the rough with the smooth guys  (Ol' Big Ears I mean...)

[Alonso_The_Assassin]

Well, what a woeful performance.

Kewell playing well seems like the only positive to come out of the match. Might shut some of his critics up.

As I've said many a time. We shouldn't expect consistency, when the likes of Traore and Josemi make up our side. Warnock's a far better footballer than Traore and Finnan likewise to Josemi. I'm not scathing the players. It's just cold hard facts. They're not good enough to play for LFC.

I can't understand why Zenden got the snub for Riise. The guy played his best game last week versus Blackburn. I thought we bought this guy to improve our league performances because he was a "proven" league player.

Maybe Rafa should be exercising his options in a potential buy and trade deal with Joaquin and Moro come January. I love the guy, but he's lack of sharpess since coming over from Real just hasn't cut the mustard for me.

We have to move on. Bring on Palace.

[WRX]

Maybe Rafa should be exercising his options in a potential buy and trade deal with Joaquin and Moro come January. I love the guy, but he's lack of sharpess since coming over from Real just hasn't cut the mustard for me.

Morientes +  Josemi + 10 Million for Joaquin sounds good at the moment  And if the deal can be confirmed now (to avoid any last minute ditches), we can even throw in traore for free....

[Godmadebloodred]

Josemi is not doing the business for us now. I wouldn't know why.

I, with my lay eye can see that, so I'm sure Rafa can see that as well. To drop or to get rid of him would be political suicide, since Josemi was one of Rafa's signing.

I know that even if Chelsea foul up big time and don't win the league, we won't win it this year. But what I'd like to see is us challenging for positions 2 & 3. Arsenal and Man Utd haven't been too great this season. So, it's a realistic ask of the team.

[SMD]

That's bullshit. Rafa got rid of Nunez, so it shows he doesn't care about whether it's a signing he's made or not.

[Мерфи]

I rate Finnan highly but Josemi is merely blocking the progress of David Raven, the England U20 fullback.

Mediocre foreign players should not be used to bulk up the squad.

Definately a criticism of the team that I can live with.  Josemi can play CB in a pinch (which Finnan can't/doesn't) or in certain tactical systems, but I am becoming more convinced that he is no more than cover as purely a RB option.  And as such, the likes of David Raven is not getting into the squad, when perhaps he could have.

Great point Rushian.

[GH]

Totally agree with Rushian about Raven. Hopefully he will get a chance this week, have a storming game and be given the nod ahead of Josemi at the weekend.
I think Rafa is trying to gee up Josemi with his comments because if he really believes that then my faith in Rafa would certainly be shaken!

[Gaz123456]

I still feel very down about yesterday.

As someone else posted, there  was a sense of inevitability about the result after the away Champions League game (although why this happens does not make any sense to me - it can't take much longer to fly from Belgium than say London), but the apparent of tegam spirit is a bigger problem.

At the moment, I can't see this turning around very quickly.

Sorry to be depressing but we need a big improvement to get back to the top four,

[cowtownred]

Depressed, I certainly feel so mate.  We all very naturally are.

There seem so many deficiencies that its hard to know where to begin.

I am not in the camp that thinks Rafa is the core of the problem, certainly not.  I was impressed with the man's past acheivements before he came, was impressed with the conduct of the man when he arrived, and I still firmly believe that the nature and committment of the man will eventually take us to the top.  I wonder where all the people who waxed lyrical about Montse's watches, about Rafa with his laptop in bed etc etc last May (5, fucking 5 months ago) have gone this morning?

He will not rest until the problem is sorted. Just will not be this year, or more realistically, the next two.

The problems to me are more to do with the players and the lack of quality on one hand, and the cohesion among those who DO have the quality.  Alas, some of the signings have just not come up to the standard we thought they would be, and indeed in some instances now smack of panic buys at the time.. esp Morientes.  Crouch unfortunately, unless things turn around for him quick, has a danger of going the same way this season.  I rather fear that Pongolle is not going to become the player he was going to be were it not for his serious injury.  Now on reflection people are crying out for Baros and Le Tallec... based on what evidence?  As they did for Owen in July.  And I'm as sure as I can be that would have ended in tears as well.

People also nark on about systems and tactics.  Well ok, too many changes are being tried, that I will concede.  But no doubt many arguing that way were the same people deriding Houllier for his failure to change tactics, when for example we went three years never turning round a 0-1 to a victory.  Or not making subs often enough.  Or using the same easily sussed 'long ball to Owen' game plans.

No-one is in any doubt that we lack real quality in three or four areas of the team.  But a certain responsibility must lie with the players on the pitch.  There seems a disturbing lack of urgency for the most part. No wonder Gerrard gets pissed off at times.

We need to find a core team that serves us week in and week out in the Premiership. And make one or two changes in personnel to suit different games, or rest players when needed.  And we need to work with that core team, develop a will to win, a fluidity, and an understanding between them.   

[SimonW]

Yeah but Nunez was no more than a lightweight in the Owen deal. It wasn't as if Rafa went after Nunez because he really wanted him. He was about 3rd choice player Rafa wanted as a makeshift in the deal.

I still put much of this down to our Summer dealings or lack of them.

We signed a goalkeeper for over 5 million when we already have 3 decent keepers. I haven't seen anything from Reina to suggest he's any better to be honest.

I agree Sisokko was a good signing so thats one plus.

Zenden has been poor although at least he cost nothing.

Peter Crouch. God where do you start. Terrible piece of business. He has one decent season for a team that fire in a lot of decent crosses (Liverpool don't) and he's worth 7 million. Remember the guy couldn't even get a game at Villa, yes Villa about a year earlier. Total disaster IMO.

But the thing that really annoys me is the fact that anyone who knows anything about LFC knows that we urgently required a quality right sided winger/midfielder and also a young centre half as back up or to fill in in place of Sami. Only Rafa, Rick Parry know why they didn't seem to really move mountains to sign players for these positions with our CL kitty. I really don't understand it! I know there were a few inquiries for defenders but we didn't even get close to signing one. WHY? Also it took till a few days before transfer deadline day before we made a move for Simao putting us in a terrible bargaining position hence Benfica demanding more cash and the deal falling through. Our dealings stink of casualness and amateurishness to be honest.

[ScouserFreddy]

i really don't know what to say......We are playing good in Europe and we are almost qualifying from the group to the next round...and we are still Number 12 in the league !!!

[SimonW]

to be honest Baros would be better than any of our strikers at the minute. FACT

[SimonW]

I'd love to hear the reasons why we didn't have a centre half and right winger signed within 3/4 weeks of winning the CL.
I'm so angry and disappointed about that.