Topic: Nando last night

[Mickey Gordon]

Is it just me or does Nando look a P*** poor shadow of the player that he can be. in the commentry last night they said he has started the last 6 and scored 1.   i know "in Rafa we trust" but what does he see in Nando to put him in everytime as a lone striker as everytime he got the ball it was either taken or given away or he done nothing and passed straight back.  I cant evan remember if he had a shot in the whole game. 

If i was Djib id be seriously p****d off especially after that performance last night involved in all three goals, at not starting and wouldn't blame him if he did go if pushed.  Yeah ok he may miss a few shots but at least hes taking the shots and not just standing there waiting for it to come (i remember when players would run towards a cross to get in a scoring position) to his head and then miss. 

Lets hope whatever Rafa sees in Nando comes out soon otherwise if we do sell Cisse (i really hope he dont) then all we have is Nando & Crouch, Kewel cant be considered a striker, pongolle looks good but is no way going to get 10-15 goals and luis is only second striker but i  think crouch will be preferred over him.  So to say we have 5 strikers is nonsense we have 3 and 1 is injured.  Something needs to be sorted Rafa give Cisse a chance he proved what he can do.

[HuntfortheRedTitle]

I must be the only person that is actually happy with the contribution Morientes is making.  Ok, admittedly, he is a striker, and a striker's job is mainly to score goals.. which he's struggling at lately.  However, if it weren't for some wasteful finishing yesterday, Morientes might have had two assists.  The one chance he set up for Garcia with a backheel yesterday was top class. He also had a great chester pass to garcia again (if i'm not mistaken). Not to mention the lovely cushioned header to stevie vs Boro. At Real Madrid, his somewhat derogatory nickname was 'El Moro'. the moor.  He was called that cause he was seemingly willing to do the 'dirty work', whilst golden boy Raul picked up all the plaudits. I don't think we'll see him scoring bucketloads of hatricks, but he'll chip in with his fair share, and I'm sure will set up loads of chances for others.  Ultimately, the one statistic I'm looking for at the end of the game is  Liverpool  Xgoals,  opposition  X-1 (or more) goals.  I couldn't care less if it's morientes, ciisse, or a corner which deflects off the referees head.  I've read often about how Morientes is supposed to be lazy. I don't see it myself?  he tracks back, gets stuck in.  He doesn't have the pace of a Ciisse, far from it, and so playing it over the top to him isn't ideal.  Too often yesterday I thought we tried to play little chips over the defence once we got 3/4 of the way up the field.  We seemingly ran out of ideas, and just chipped it up in hope.  Morientes will come good.  Vs Fulham last year he scored a peach of a header, not to mention his goal against Charlton.  Besides, this guy has been doing it at the highest level for a years, he hasn't suddenly become a bad player.  Support him, it's a lot easier when you feel wanted.

[[streety]]

World class strikers don't become shit overnight. Give him a chance.

[adopted_scouser]

World class strikers don't become shit overnight. Give him a chance.

That's what everyone has been saying for the last 8 months!

[chi_noy2000]

i'm one of the few nando supporters here.  i still have faith in moro but like what rafa said liverpool have to play on moro's strength which is in the air.  that means lots of quality crosses to moro. that is probably what we are lacking at the moment. 

so far, with the exception of gerrard and zenden, moro has not really received a consistent good service from our midfielders.  so, i'm not surprised why he's not scoring goals.  remember the first leg against CSKA Sofia.  he was having a field day bec gerrard has been feeding him.

[HiTs]

Close this thread please!

Why ?


Nando was nowhere in the game last night ......and has become Heskeylike.......trying hard to show workrate halfway down the pitch rather then being a predator in the box (Van Horse-like).

Still have a lot of respect for Nando and think he's a confidence player...however at some stage he has to deliver.

I for one don't like Cisse ahead of Nando in the exit queue......Cisse has had far little playing time to prove himself then Nando....and has put the ball in the back of the net.......if we needed "workrate", we would hav kept Nunez.

[mjgill85]

I must be the only person that is actually happy with the contribution Morientes is making.  Ok, admittedly, he is a striker, and a striker's job is mainly to score goals.. which he's struggling at lately.  However, if it weren't for some wasteful finishing yesterday, Morientes might have had two assists.  The one chance he set up for Garcia with a backheel yesterday was top class. He also had a great chester pass to garcia again (if i'm not mistaken). Not to mention the lovely cushioned header to stevie vs Boro. At Real Madrid, his somewhat derogatory nickname was 'El Moro'. the moor.  He was called that cause he was seemingly willing to do the 'dirty work', whilst golden boy Raul picked up all the plaudits. I don't think we'll see him scoring bucketloads of hatricks, but he'll chip in with his fair share, and I'm sure will set up loads of chances for others.  Ultimately, the one statistic I'm looking for at the end of the game is  Liverpool  Xgoals,  opposition  X-1 (or more) goals.  I couldn't care less if it's morientes, ciisse, or a corner which deflects off the referees head.  I've read often about how Morientes is supposed to be lazy. I don't see it myself?  he tracks back, gets stuck in.  He doesn't have the pace of a Ciisse, far from it, and so playing it over the top to him isn't ideal.  Too often yesterday I thought we tried to play little chips over the defence once we got 3/4 of the way up the field.  We seemingly ran out of ideas, and just chipped it up in hope.  Morientes will come good.  Vs Fulham last year he scored a peach of a header, not to mention his goal against Charlton.  Besides, this guy has been doing it at the highest level for a years, he hasn't suddenly become a bad player.  Support him, it's a lot easier when you feel wanted.

Agree entirely.

I think his build-up play is superb (although last night it was slightly off at times) and he does a hell of a lot of chasing back, it's just his lack of pace makes people not realise how hard he's working

[Paxil]

Huntfor....you are not alone. There's two of us!

I think Nando'as contribution is being overlooked because the most obvious measure (Striker : goals) is coming up dry. Out side of that, he is very deft, could (should) have had some assists but for Garcia's woeful finishing, and is tracking back more and winning the ball back in midfield in quite a Rush-like manner.

That we were one-dimesnional yesterday, particulalrly after the first half-hour when Moscow worked out the chip into the box plan, was down to the midfield - not Nando.

At some point, and the next game won't be too soon, I hope Nando starts netting once again.

On a parallel discussion, I am a big supporter of Michael Owen coming back to the club. Not HOWEVER, if it means Cisse must be sold to accommodate him. If that is the only way we can do it, then it shouldn't happen.

[SMD]

I think the piss poor service might make a difference too.

[LiamG]

I cant believe that Rafa is talking bout offers for Cisse when Cisse is the one who should stay out of him and nando.

[Tuesday]

Nando seems to have hit his twilight years a little early.  He's still got his skill but he lacks pace and power to trouble even the weakest of Premiership defences.  Perhaps a confidence boost would wake him up a bit but the true Morientes is either yet to be seen or long dead.

[His Nibs]

Nando will never become the type of predatory striker the way van horse face is. We lost that type of player since God left. However, Nando does the dirty work and I think PT said it best. He does chip in his fair share of goals but he excels in bringing other players into the game (a definite plus in rafa's 451 system). Now, I admit he will play better as a withdrawn striker rather than a traditional english targetman (ala Shearer and Sutton of the 1990s blackburn), making late runs into the box to head in crosses (like what he did at CSKA Sofia) and not playing like drogba (which chelsea just pump the long ball towards him and let robben and lampard to feed off his nod dowms).

All this is contingent on providing quality service on the wings. Rafa knows what the side needs and he has highlighted it time and time again by stating he wants a RM and a CB.  I shall reiterate my hope that if we don't get a new RM by the time the transfer window, rafa would play stevie g in that role (thus accomodating xabi and sissoko in the central midfield).

People might say that this is a waste of gerrard's quality but let's face it. We got an overabundance of good CMs (like Chelsea has an overabundance of wingers) and finding a good rotational policy between 2 world class midfielders and a hot prospect is dfficult.

[The 5th Benitle]

Huntfor....you are not alone. There's two of us!

3 of us.

[Roger]

Nando is not at the races at the moment. Its like playing with ten men!

If When Owen comes he might strike up a lethal combination. But probably not.

[Sweet Silver Song]

I must be the only person that is actually happy with the contribution Morientes is making.  Ok, admittedly, he is a striker, and a striker's job is mainly to score goals.. which he's struggling at lately.  However, if it weren't for some wasteful finishing yesterday, Morientes might have had two assists.  The one chance he set up for Garcia with a backheel yesterday was top class. He also had a great chester pass to garcia again (if i'm not mistaken). Not to mention the lovely cushioned header to stevie vs Boro. At Real Madrid, his somewhat derogatory nickname was 'El Moro'. the moor.  He was called that cause he was seemingly willing to do the 'dirty work', whilst golden boy Raul picked up all the plaudits. I don't think we'll see him scoring bucketloads of hatricks, but he'll chip in with his fair share, and I'm sure will set up loads of chances for others.  Ultimately, the one statistic I'm looking for at the end of the game is  Liverpool  Xgoals,  opposition  X-1 (or more) goals.  I couldn't care less if it's morientes, ciisse, or a corner which deflects off the referees head.  I've read often about how Morientes is supposed to be lazy. I don't see it myself?  he tracks back, gets stuck in.  He doesn't have the pace of a Ciisse, far from it, and so playing it over the top to him isn't ideal.  Too often yesterday I thought we tried to play little chips over the defence once we got 3/4 of the way up the field.  We seemingly ran out of ideas, and just chipped it up in hope.  Morientes will come good.  Vs Fulham last year he scored a peach of a header, not to mention his goal against Charlton.  Besides, this guy has been doing it at the highest level for a years, he hasn't suddenly become a bad player.  Support him, it's a lot easier when you feel wanted.

At last! Someone with more than two braincells has made a post. Nando showed last night exactly why he will be useful for the coming season. With teams increasingly playing everyone behind the ball, we need players with guile and intelligence to open them up. Some of nanados touches yesterday were sublime, and as Hunt for the Red has pointed out, it wasn't Nandos fault that woeful finishing did not complete the job. Sometimes you have to watch games and notice exactly how players contribute to the team effort. It's not all about sparying a spectacular 40 yard pass of hittting a half volley in from the edge of the area.

[HuntfortheRedTitle]

At last! Someone with more than two braincells has made a post.

My doctor says I have three ;-)

At last! Someone with more than two braincells has made a post.


thanks... I think ;-)

[Bullan]

Two words for you.

NO.

Nando has been coming on leaps and bounds i think with regards to how he is linking up with his teammates.

Against Sofia I thought him and Cisse were actually beginning to show understanding and he is getting better at holding up the ball and getting others into play.

The crossing was simply atrocius last night until that perfect cross from Cisse but that only came when both him and Garcia had time to pick their spot.

If we as a team break with pace Nando is never going to be the first one in the box , he never was a pacy player and that isnt going to change.

When a cross came in he put himself about and was twice close when their goalie rushed off his line and punched clear, but the service was eaten up by their two tall center halfs all the time.

It's bloody harsh to get on his back when we all can see how he makes a run and picks his spot only for the supply to be nowhere near him and he has to jump backwards to try to reach it.

This Nando and Cisse bashing is doing my head in.

[LFC-Enforcer]

This Nando and Cisse bashing is doing my head in.

Join the club. What Cisse showed us last night, is that he can change the tempo of a game in much the same way Stevie does. Cisse knows he can play on the fucking right wing, and that cross was a cheeky reminder of exactly that. But he doesn'y want to play right wing. That cross was as much a statement to the boss to get a fucking proper right winger in so that he and the other two bleeding strikers get some proper service. The right is always the best side to attack from historically (the opposition's left), and we got nothing there. The strikers need service from out wide - especially in the prem where every mid-table-or-less bastard manager will play 11 behind the ball - but without that service they are first to be criticised for not scoring. Ease off our front line fuckle folks, its the service from out wide that needs scrutinising.

[BarneyAKRubble3]

I don't think Morientes has been that bad, he's held the ball up well and makes intelligent flicks and passes. The problem is he's not scoring coz he isn't getting the service and coz he's got no support up front. He's never played as a lone striker before.

[james791]

while he wears a liverpool shirt, ill support him 100% , however i have to say he doenst look the player he onece was. I understand what he brings to the games and yes he holds the ball up and brings other players into it, but so did Heskey didnt he? and look what happened to him. And before anyone says anything i was actually a big fan of Heskeys and didnt really want to see him leave, but if a striker isnt scoring goals then whats he there for?
 But i dont think we should get rid of himm yet. We need a certain type of player to play off Cisse, Pongo and (maybe!) Owen and Morientes can do that job, if he starts to buck his ideas up...

[Cruiser]

Morientes needs a few quickfire goals in the PL and will come good. I have faith in him. However he shouldn't always be first choice striker, this favouritism is doing my head in and is detrimental to the club. Cisse is more in form right now so should automatically be first choice should we play with only one striker.

[RumDrinker]

At last! Someone with more than two braincells has made a post. Nando showed last night exactly why he will be useful for the coming season. With teams increasingly playing everyone behind the ball, we need players with guile and intelligence to open them up. Some of nanados touches yesterday were sublime, and as Hunt for the Red has pointed out, it wasn't Nandos fault that woeful finishing did not complete the job. Sometimes you have to watch games and notice exactly how players contribute to the team effort. It's not all about sparying a spectacular 40 yard pass of hittting a half volley in from the edge of the area.

I'm sorry could you please point out Morientes's "sublime" touches and his good link up play?

I'm having great trouble remember any of this. I'm beginning to think large sections of posters on this board are simply delusional...

I do think these posters have a point in a way though. Rafa is 'under the impression' that Morientes can contribute to our buildup play and thats why he persists with him. But lets face it, Crouch has looked far more promising in this respect then El Moro and I for one cant wait for Crouch to return to full fitness.

[Bullan]

I understand what he brings to the games and yes he holds the ball up and brings other players into it, but so did Heskey didnt he?

I don't think that is a very good comparison.
Bruno was the "lump it to him , hope it hits and maybe owen gets the scraps" player.
Totally different style of play.

[Obi Wan Gomi]

i don't have any stats, but i think Cisse has scored more goals in less games than nando.

I dont know about overall, but this season Cisse has scored 6 in 560 mins, having played some of those down the right. It works out to one every 90 mins or so.

Having said that, I think Moro is quality, worked hard last night, and was encouraging. He is not an explosive player, but he does drop deep, keep the ball moving, and HE WORKS HARD. I cant believe people slam him for being lazy. He is putting himself about too, being claterred twice by their monster of a goalkeeper. Lay off Nando. he wont get 20 goals, but i daresay that soon we will be all in agreement that we PLAY BETTER when he is on the field.

[RobC]

I think Nando is getting a load of underserved stick here. Last night he made a few really nice touches that allowed Garcia in particular to get shots on goal. If the finishing had been better we would have been talking about great assists from Morientes rather than slamming him for doing nothing.

In the last few games we're gradually seeing him get a better understanding of how we play, and he's coming into it a bit more. Against Sofia for the first he seemed to work well with Cisse as well.

The suggestion that if Owen comes he should be off is ridiculous. I reckon Owen and Nando would work really well together. With Owen's pace, finishing and ability to get on the end of Nando's cheeky little touches and through balls I reckon we'd see a load more goals than our strikers are providing at the moment.

Think he should be given a break, I'm sure the best is yet to come with Nando

[WRX]

Nando is not at the races at the moment. Its like playing with ten men!

couldn't put it better myself....its a lot like heskey during houllier days. He is there, but does not do anything worthwhile. Can't believe baros gets sold instead when he does more in the lone striker role.

[RobC]

in the commentry last night they said he has started the last 6 and scored 1. 

Didnt he get 2 at Sofia?

[Cruiser]

Cisse has scored 9 in 33 games
Moro has 5 in 21.

Judging by performances Cisse looks far sharper and dangerous to me. He injects much needed pace and hunger in our otherwise sluggish attacks.

[Мерфи]

I just invented a new word: "fuckle". A fickle fuck.

 (How bout Fickuck  )

Disappointing.  That's how I would characterize it.  Woefully dissapointing . . . I'm really dissapointed with the form of many of the Liverpool "SUPPORTERS" in the last few days -- er . . . .weeks.  Gasping everytime Luis gives away a ball.  "There's only one Michael Owen's . . . !!!!???" when Cisse was coming on.  F*CK ME!  Let's count the number of gdam goals Cisse has scored recently in games that have actually mattered!

TNS – 27 minutes (no goals)
TNS- 95 minutes (1 goal)
Kaunas – 95 minutes (1 goal)
Kaunas – 49 minutes (1 goal)
Sofia – 95 minutes (1 goal)
Middlesboro – 38 minutes (0 goals)
Sunderland – 77 minutes (0 goals)
Sofia – 85 minutes (0 goals)
Moscow – 42 minutes (2 goals)

That works out at approximately 1 goal every 100 minutes -- Yeah, he's right shite for a striker -- Hopeless!  Bring back Owen!!!  And that's not counting the dissallowed goal against SOFIA in the second leg that should have stood!!!

F*CK ME if I can't find something good to say about Morientes too!!!  Or Garcia!!! 

I am really dissapointed with liverpool fans recently.  Poor form.  I expect better.  A few of you would do well to trade yourself to, I don't know - some other wanking Merseyside team!!  I'd trade you in a heart beat.

Wake the F*CK up and get behind the Liverpool Players. 

Rant is sure to continue in another thread

[Hightown Phil]

Hypothetically if neither of them are scoring goals, then I'd take Morientes.

His game is far more intelligent and he works a hell of a lot harder than Cisse.

I'd rather keep both of them, have Crouch and Owen as well though.

[Red Squiggle]

For the first time (maybe ever) I think Clive "Manc Lover" Tyldesley hit the nail on the head. Morientes isn't playing with the same kind of aggression that characterised his time at Monaco or Madrid. The way he attacked a ball for Monaco to prove a point to those at Madrid in the European Cup in 2004 was laced with aggression to prove just what Madrid were missing out on. Last night I saw that same aggression when Cisse came on. I can't remember a time when Cisse has looked so devastatingly potent as that.

But back to the aggression issue. Even though Morientes isn't the fastest player in the world I was expecting him to show glimpses of pace a la Monaco vs Chelsea when he burst past their last man and hammered the ball past Cudicini into the roof of the net. What I feel we are seeing is his raw skill, and that will always be playing clever flicks and touches to bring strikers around him into the game. I don't feel we are seeing any real desire in young Fernando at the minute, and considering Benitez's desire to incorporate players with the correct "mentality" into his Anfield set up that is surprising.

[mrchimps]

Even though cisse is scoring, for some strange reason i would also still opt for nando, i dont know why - perhaps to me he just seems like more of a liverpool player.

Nando will come good i think, he's like a coild spring - he gets one, he will get loads...(i hope)

[AK47]

Quote: Red Suiggle - "What I feel we are seeing is his raw skill, and that will always be playing clever flicks and touches to bring strikers around him into the game. I don't feel we are seeing any real desire in young Fernando at the minute, and considering Benitez's desire to incorporate players with the correct "mentality" into his Anfield set up that is surprising"

Fully agree. Nando showed no winning spirit last night. I suspect when Crouch is fit Nando will be 2nd choice for the target man role. Possibly this will then re-ignite his winning mentality and get us to finally see the 'real' Nando.

[WRX]

i think the reason why some of us are angry with morientes (including me) is because of the fact that morientes gets being picked no matter how he performs in the previous games....i don't know if this is favourism or not....But ever since a half-fit morientes gets picked in the league cup final ahead of baros......

i don't have problem with morientes. He seems like an exact clone of jari litmanean with more physical presence. I think cisse & moro combo will work if moro played in a slightly deeper role. In fact, i was happy with baros, cisse, morientes & crouch strike force in the 1st place, I will be happy with cisse, morientes, owen & crouch partnership equally too.

The thing is while we are getting rid of younger & better players (IMO), morientes gets played no matter how he performs...yeah, yeah. he needs better service from our wingers and stuff....then why do we still persist in playing morientes ?

Couldn't we just play him when we get a better right winger ? It is so painful to see morientes play now. there is vitrually no crosses coming from the right, zenden occasionally puts on a cross from the left. Its not working. Lets just put morientes in the team when we have some proper wingers. To just play for the sake of playing.... seems to suggest some sort of favourism from the boss.

1st baros....and now cisse (i really hope not)...... That is why i am pi$$ed. I know rafa is the boss and all. But if you sell all our best players (juz because they have high market value) and keep those mediore players here (example...josemi), i don't know what to say....really.

[lukas]

People who keep mentioning he has had 8 months he should be doing it now, i think thats slightly unfair last season was so inconsistent for him in terms of he could never get a clear run in the team with being cup tied, personally im not countin last season id say give a good few months this season and he will be much improved.  He is a class player and im sure he can prove his doubters wrong.

[BCCC]

i don't have problem with morientes. He seems like an exact clone of jari litmanean with more physical presence.

 

Can't be talking about the same Jari that I remember.

[WRX]

Can't be talking about the same Jari that I remember.

i meant he has :

1)great vision
2)good 1st touch
3)can pick out players with good passes

similar to jari in that sense

[BCCC]

i meant he has :

1)great vision
2)good 1st touch
3)can pick out players with good passes

similar to jari in that sense

Major difference is Jari controlled games in the last third whereas Nando is only effective with the right service/players around him.

[chris.bonnie]

i dont know how much time we can afford to give Nando

he just doesnt seem to be able to cope with the english game, Cisse on the other hand is desperate to paly, desperate to run, desperate to shoot, Nando just seems desperate!!!!!

[DannyD]

Why ?


Nando was nowhere in the game last night ......and has become Heskeylike.......trying hard to show workrate halfway down the pitch rather then being a predator in the box (Van Horse-like).

Still have a lot of respect for Nando and think he's a confidence player...however at some stage he has to deliver.

I for one don't like Cisse ahead of Nando in the exit queue......Cisse has had far little playing time to prove himself then Nando....and has put the ball in the back of the net.......if we needed "workrate", we would hav kept Nunez.

He is too lightweight and needs too mush space to operate in. I don't blame him I think we struggle to get a system going he is happy with. More go Cisse stay. Cisse as last night shows can give us that bit of something different. Pace is a wonderful thing in the modern game .... in fact it is everything.