Fuck this, I'll bite. I'm actually on the way home from this today. I thought on first impressions that Manny did enough to warrant the win last night in a hard close fight...
So got over me jet lag and watched that a replay again via the Primetime download - thanks very much for putting that up Lee-87 mate. Jesus, I don't envy you lot having to put up with King Khan guiding you through the night.
As I said the other night, my first impressions were that Manny edged it slightly. Now bear in mind this was sat amongst a 90% pro Mexican crowd cheering Marquez's every move, without any tv commentary, no Lederman scorecard, etc, just my own eyes assessing what I could see. I've watched that again and I can honestly say I have Manny winning it by 115-113.
Maybe it is a different mentality with regards to how you each credit the round to a fighter. For me, I saw that Manny was the one backing up Marquez for the majority of the night, coming forward and being the aggressor. The rounds where Marquez troubled Manny with more than just the odd right hand, I gave to JMM - see round 7 for example. People are saying that how does a counterpuncher abandon his whole boxing style to win in those circumstances and for me that involves Marquez putting more combinations together and upping his output. If you have a round where a counterpuncher lands a single hard uppercut, but is backed up for the rest of it, who do you give it to? The guy landing the odd hard punch? Not for me. That's just my take on it, people may or may not disagree, but I do know for a fact that's how it's seen mainly out here too by a lot of boxing officials and people certified by USA Boxing. So if that offers any insight as to how the judges scored it, then I'll put that out there. I know I'm not going to change anyone's opinions, nor am I trying to. I'm just putting mine across as an alternative.
Offering a balanced view, what didn't (and at times doesn't) help Manny against JMM is the way he balances himself, by lunging in and jumping back - what works as a plus for him in getting his shots off at certain angles also serves to work against him because it looks like he doesn't carry that ring generalship, not against someone like a Marquez or a Cotto (using him as an example) who'll be in that ring and much more smoother in their rhythm and movement. Where Manny also fell down on Saturday was that he didn't take away Marquez's right hand more, by moving to his right - make Marquez turn on his back foot. JMM was much much better at this particular tactical aspect, in stepping to his left and throwing that right hand straight down the middle.
Another thing I thought Manny could have done was to let Marquez come to him at points in the fight. JMM is obviously a great counterpuncher - you all saw him step back on that back foot all night on Saturday, moving just out of range. If Pacquiao had stayed where he was and fought backwards, then it wouldn't have been as hard a task as it was. For example, weight differences aside, the problem JMM had when he fought Mayweather, was that he had to come to Floyd and not fight his own fight, so he's saddled with that extra task there.***
So what does that from Saturday all prove?
1. That obviously styles make fights - so to hear things like
...Manny was shown for what he really is last night
more like, errr, not really. Whoever you are in boxing, there's always someone out there who will make you look bad and possess that style to give you problems.
2. That's it's all subjective at the end of the day. We're all in here putting our points of view across - so what makes you think that it's not subjective amongst the judges either? Bunce was speaking an absolute load of shit, saying there'll be a full scale inquiry afterwards. No there won't you tit.
***Coming back to the point of Mayweather, Mirra rightly points out that he's a completely different fighter to JMM fighting off of that back foot - he'll move back against the ropes and fight off there. I also happen to agree that could well end in a likely result for Floyd (a wide UD perhaps) - but I have a mate who is insistent this slight difference will allow Manny a greater chance to get in and hurt Floyd if they met. (He concedes that any type of decision would go Floyd's way) Who knows? It's all opinions, but not necessarily a foregone conclusion for those 2 just yet, should they fight. After all, the general consensus in here was, when Saturday's fight was announced and before the bout, was that the step up @ the catchweight would be a task too much for JMM and slow him down against Pacquiao, with people worried he'd be stopped early-ish. That didn't happen and I'm grateful I got to see another great 12 rounds between these two.
If you think pacquiao really won that fight then you don't know shit about boxing. Ring generalship and effective striking all belonged to Marquez. And aggression is all pacquiao but kept getting counterpunched. And if you need compubox to tell you who won the fight than you really are not a boxing fan
How any of you can honestly say Manny won makes me question whether you even watched the fight? or better yet, know anything at all about boxing!?
Someone else getting a little too excited it seems.
Do me a favor and try not to turn this into a thread that's frequented by the sorts like the Liverpool in game threads just looking for a slagging session.
I'll turn your statements on their heads and ask, does it really surprise you, that in a fight as close as this, with JMM being up against a world popular fighter in Pacquiao, a well loved trainer in Freddie Roach and the potential bout with Floyd Mayweather hanging over their heads, which is undoubtedly going to be a bigger draw, that the decision went Manny's way on Saturday? Added to the principle of the challenger having to snatch away the title from the champion. Put that all together and I'll ask you whether you "really know shit about boxing?" I've seen bigger robberies in the golden gloves. It happens. Some situations you'll see where you know a fighter has to knock the other guy out just to get a draw (not literally, figuratively). If that's a surprise to you, then you're in for a shock I'm afraid.
A good thing that may arise from this, is that this may seal the deal now between Floyd and Manny. That's the bigger pull and the bigger money earner and that definitely played a factor in it too. Again, like it or lump it, that's boxing for you.