Author Topic: Jose having another go...  (Read 1411 times)

Offline nickelodeon

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Jose having another go...
« on: July 12, 2005, 07:12:58 PM »
(from sky)


Jose rages at Blues treatment


Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho has once again stated his unhappiness with a perceived bias in the fixture list, and has called for Arsenal vice-chairman David Dein's status at the FA to be reassessed.

The Blues boss has been angered with the new Premiership fixtures after Chelsea were handed away ties following the first five of their UEFA Champions League group stage ties.

Mourinho has no problem in confronting authority figures and has also made clear his unease at the power Dein currently wields at Soho Square, drawing an implicit link between the favourable fixtures Arsenal enjoy and the influence of their vice-president.

Alluding to allegations of an illegal approach in The Gunners' pursuit of Sevilla star Julio Baptista, Mourinho expressed his dissatisfaction at the relative treatment of the London rivals at the hands of the governing body.

"Some are treated as devils, some as angels," Mourinho told a news conference.

"We are not so ugly to be treated like devils and I don't think Arsene Wenger and David Dein are so beautiful to be treated as angels.

"I went to Brazil for a holiday, I didn't go to chase players and have secret meetings with clubs.

"It's the same with the Premier League fixtures.

"After the first five rounds of the Champions League this season Chelsea have an away game while Arsenal are always at home.

"Why do you (the media) have nothing to say about that? Is it only Jose Mourinho who looks at the fixtures who finds something very strange?

"What concerns me is the way you approach different situations in a very different way.

"I am not the world's most intelligent man but I am not stupid. I understand things here, they don't change.

"Maybe in 2009 or 2010 maybe Mr Dein is not in the FA anymore and I can have a different season, or maybe Mr Kenyon (Chelsea chief executive Peter Kenyon) is working in the FA?

"A person who works in a club should not work in the FA."

(...)

Although I'm not very sympathetic to the Russian mafia cause, I am very happy about JM complaints. There is a flagrant conflict of interest with Dein's implication at both Arsenal and the FA.

I think we were class act not to say anything when the decision was made to favor Everton before us as representative of England for the champions league when it directly implicated Arsenal not having to go trough the third qualifying round at our expense.

I just hope other managers/owners will join to denounce this unacceptable situation.

Offline Tosh

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2005, 07:14:26 PM »
"I am not the world's most intelligent man" - From the horses mouth.. lovin it.

Offline belvederered

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2005, 07:15:18 PM »
boo hoo  ???

Offline 7777

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2005, 07:26:27 PM »



"It's the same with the Premier League fixtures.

"After the first five rounds of the Champions League this season Chelsea have an away game while Arsenal are always at home.



If that is true he has got a point!

Offline Benitez

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2005, 07:29:59 PM »
I agree with him that Dein should be ousted from that position with the FA!

But thats about all I've ever agreed with him about :D

He really does love the sound of his own voice, and is an amazing whinger for a man in his position, at basically the richest club in Europe. With no money worries, and who can basically just buy buy buy with no pressure to find 'bargains' and the fear of wasting money! 

A few fixtures that don't suit him should be no problem considering the size and depth of the squad he's got.

This is a fair enough point about Dien though, just as usual with Queen Maureen - it's over done, over stated and just over the top.
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Offline Ferg

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2005, 07:47:38 PM »
Mr Mourinho,your voice is only heard to those can be bothered to listen.




















and i'm not listeneing.
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Offline zigackly

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2005, 07:51:30 PM »
The flaws in this are obvious. The FA board has no input into picking fixtures, which is actually done by a computer owned by the Premier League. There are more, but I'll leave those as an exercise for the reader. My interest is more directed at the motivation. Note that it's Arsenal being attacked, and attacked first. That indicates Mourinho believes they are his strongest threat. At the same time he is continuing the "world against us" mentality with which he successfully motivated his squad last season.
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Offline Revenge of the Sixth

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2005, 07:53:37 PM »
The Premier League and the FA are two seperate bodies so he is wrong on that. However, it is wrong that a Chef Executive of one of the countries most important clubs is also a senior figure withing the domestic games governing body. A lot of us were shouting as loud as we could due to Dein being on the panel that let Everton in to the CL ahead of the winners.

Offline Revenge of the Sixth

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2005, 07:54:10 PM »
The flaws in this are obvious. The FA board has no input into picking fixtures, which is actually done by a computer owned by the Premier League. There are more, but I'll leave those as an exercise for the reader. My interest is more directed at the motivation. Note that it's Arsenal being attacked, and attacked first. That indicates Mourinho believes they are his strongest threat. At the same time he is continuing the "world against us" mentality with which he successfully motivated his squad last season.

Beat me to it.

Offline piddsterturk

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2005, 08:01:07 PM »
The things with Mourinho is that whereas most of the time he's got a point, when I see him talking I can't help but think to myself,  ' oh would you ever shut the fuck up'.

It was entertaining when he was at Porto winding up Mr. Ferguson, and it was even mildly amusing watching his contrived arrogance (I believe a lot of it's an act) but I've reached the stage now where I just think he's fucking boring.

He doesn't annoy, he doesn't motivate, to me he's just there.  A decent manager that did remarkably well with an unfasionable team in Europe (Celtic fans would say he cheated his way to success and I would agree) but who is now just a mouthpiece for a club that in my mind has no place in it's current state in football.

Chelsea's era will pass and then football might get back to the way it's meant to be, I just hope that other clubs don't ruin the game further by trying to emulate what they and their russian sugar daddy have done.

I would happily finish 2nd every year for the next decade to the billionaires from the west end because in my mind I would know that had things been right, we would have been champions.

Offline Laz-e-Boy

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2005, 08:20:11 PM »
i have rarely seen such a blatantly obvious conflict of interest than david dein and his holding any authority at the fa. i remember the battle of old trafford a few years ago between the arse and manu, and 3 of their players are pulled up in front of, i think a 3 man pannel, including dein for their trial!!!what decision do you think he will make ffs!like he will send his own players down. in any fair system of governance the legislative must be separate from the judicial, and even more so, those responsible for those being charged should never have any input into the trial verdict, especially a one third input in the outcome. anything that maureen can do to bring attention to this blatant anomaly should be applauded, even if he is a load mouth midget with a blatant inferioirity complex due to his small weiner

Offline ronster500

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2005, 08:26:12 PM »
I thought the Premier League was set up by the FA, to curb the power of the Football League?

(It started out as 'THE F.A. PREMIER LEAGUE')

There was the money grabbing sod the lower divisions mentality as well, but the driving force was the FA - or am I missing something!

Maureen does have a point tho - Dein's position is a clear conflict of interest.  Also, he seems to hold the reins at Arse, and he is VICE-chairman, not full proper chairman! What's going on there?   ???

Offline nickelodeon

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2005, 08:48:48 PM »
I'm not sure about the validity of the fixture complaint as zigackly pointed out, it is a computer making them.

But I checked the fixture list and what Maureen reported was accurate.

As far as we're concern, we are scheduled away from home after each third round leg but our matches are split 50/50 for the group stage.

I don't think it could be easy (possible) for Dein's to interfere in such matter but the point remains valid even if you discard everything Maureen said.

Shouldn't have Rafa or anyone else at the club complain when it was us that were at the mercy of this biased affair?

Offline zigackly

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2005, 08:52:15 PM »
Ok then, another obvious flaw. Not only, as pointed out above, are the FA Panel in question not involved in Premier League fixtures whatsoever, but also its members are not allowed to vote on those items on which they have a possible conflict of interest.
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Offline Duni-Red

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2005, 09:01:25 PM »
There is a conflict of interests with Dein in the position that he is, but Mourihno just likes the sound of his own voice.  He's doing now what Ferguson and Wenger have done in the past and creating a them and us situation, tyring to giving an extra edge to his players.

I suppose he was a novelty at first, but now he's just getting on my nerves.  He is the manager of the reigning English Champions  and has no sense of humility whatsover.  It sounds like he's looking for excuses before the season starts as he knows this season will be a lot harder than the last, Arsenal haven't retained the premiership under Wenger, for example and he knows it will take an even greater achievement than last if he's to win it again.  His squad is smaller than last season, although there is 6 weeks left of the transfer window, but so far they haven't really strengthened.  Perhaps he's already feeling the pressure.
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Offline Laz-e-Boy

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2005, 09:01:51 PM »
david dein had input into what action the fa took over the arsenal players after half their team took a disliking to van horseface winning(and subsequently missing) at the start of the 2003 season. lauren and ashley cole and martin keown were given slaps on the wrists for what most players would have been banned for ten matches for

Offline nickelodeon

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2005, 09:10:07 PM »
Ok then, another obvious flaw. Not only, as pointed out above, are the FA Panel in question not involved in Premier League fixtures whatsoever, but also its members are not allowed to vote on those items on which they have a possible conflict of interest.

You are absolutely certain he had nothing to do with the decision to include Everton before us?

Offline zigackly

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2005, 09:18:52 PM »
There is a conflict of interests with Dein in the position that he is

He's there as an elected representative of premier league clubs. I believe it's a five year appointment.

You are absolutely certain he had nothing to do with the decision to include Everton before us?

No, but them's the rules. I don't believe he would have voted, or Gartside, but I don't know for certain. Stupidly, I haven't archived any articles from the time. I'll have a quick google but it might be a tough one to track down.
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Offline nickelodeon

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2005, 09:36:40 PM »
I agree that in a perfect world, he could probably sit on the board and not interfere with any matter that would influence arsenal. But the whole situation still just smells bad...

Offline SkyBlueRed

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2005, 09:46:52 PM »
The guy whinges more than Wenger.
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Offline nickelodeon

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2005, 11:03:02 PM »
The guy whinges more than Wenger.

 
It would be a tight contest between the two of them!

 ;D

Offline oojason

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2005, 11:46:48 PM »
Would like to see all the English teams in Europe given an option to play their games before or following a midweek European tie on a Saturday or Sunday - home or away.

Surely it's in the Premier League's own interest to give it's clubs in Europe this choice?
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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2005, 12:07:13 AM »
Mourinho has now asked UEFA never to draw them against Liverpool, due to the fact they get knocked out.
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Offline LadyLala

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2005, 12:17:15 AM »
Can he be fined as a result of this?
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Offline Zappa

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2005, 12:27:09 AM »
Todays Times

July 13, 2005

Mourinho goes on the attack after seeing red
By Russell Kempson
A NEW season approaches, same old José Mourinho. In his first press conference of the 2005-06 campaign yesterday, the outspoken Chelsea manager again raged against the perceived injustices in the world.

Not a ball has been kicked, but Mourinho had clearly been simmering over the summer break. Arsenal, Chelsea’s London rivals, Arsène Wenger, their manager, and David Dein, their vice-chairman, were his chief targets. The attack on Dein was particularly acerbic, Mourinho saying that one man should not simultaneously hold the positions of vice-chairman at a club and the FA.

It had been going swimmingly. Chelsea had unveiled their new centenary home kit and Asier Del Horno, the £8 million recruit from Athletic Bilbao, spoke encouragingly about his new club. But then Mourinho, questioned about Chelsea’s image off the pitch, launched into a tirade about “devils and angels” that ranked alongside the “seagulls and trawlers” rant of Eric Cantona.

Mourinho is enraged by the “tapping-up” scandal involving Ashley Cole, the Arsenal defender, that was resolved last month. Chelsea accepted their punishment, but the appeals of Mourinho and Cole against their fines are to be heard by the FA Premier League this month.

Mourinho sailed close to the wind — and possibly to an FA charge of bringing the game into disrepute — when he said that Arsenal were hardly innocents abroad. He cited reports last week that, during a visit to Brazil a fortnight ago, Wenger had spoken to Júlio Baptista, the Brazil and Seville forward. Seville officials had considered a complaint to Fifa, the sport’s world governing body, but have yet to carry out their threat.

Asked if he was worried about the moral perception of Chelsea, Mourinho said: “No. What concerns me is the way you approach similar situations in a very different way. Because some are treated as devils and some are treated as angels. And I don’t think that we are so ugly to be treated like devils and I don’t think Mr Wenger and Mr David Dein are so beautiful to be treated like angels.

“You know, I went to Brazil on holiday, I didn’t go to Brazil to chase players and speak with players behind the clubs. But when I read the papers, it’s completely different. The devils and the angels.”

Warming to his theme, Mourinho suggested that Arsenal may have received preferential treatment in the allocating of fixtures in the Barclays Premiership. The first five of Arsenal’s six league matches, immediately after they have played in a group game of the Champions League, are at Highbury. In contrast, Chelsea have five away games and against distinctly tougher opponents. “Is José Mourinho the only one who can look at the fixtures and find something very strange?” he said. “You don’t find anything strange in that?

Mourinho suggested that Dein should stand down from his position with the FA. “A person who works in the club shouldn’t work in the FA,” Mourinho said. “The FA is the FA, clubs are clubs. In 2009 or 2010, maybe Mr Dein is not in the FA any more and I can have a different season.” An Arsenal spokesman said last night: “We are aware of the remarks but have no comment.”

Mourinho declined to confirm that Chelsea are in the closing stages of buying Shaun Wright-Phillips, the Manchester City winger, for about £20 million and Michael Essien, the Lyons midfield player, for about £17 million. However, Peter Kenyon, the Chelsea chief executive, was in Lyons yesterday for talks with Jean-Michel Aulas, the French club’s president.

CHELSEA IN A FIX

IGNORING the persecution complex of José Mourinho, he may have a point about Chelsea having a tougher schedule than Arsenal after each of their Champions League group matches. Is the fixtures computer a closet Gooner?

CHELSEA: Charlton (a), Liverpool (a), Everton (a), Manchester United (a), Portsmouth (a), Wigan (h).

ARSENAL: Everton (h), Birmingham (h), Manchester City (h), Sunderland (h), Blackburn Rovers (h), Newcastle (a).
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Offline WelshMike

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2005, 12:40:29 AM »
You have to play every team twice like every other team does, Jose. If you and your team are that good, then what's all the fuss about?

And:

Quote
"I am not the world's most intelligent man but I am not stupid.

That sentence started off so well, and then he had to go and ruin it..
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Offline gjr1

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2005, 11:46:05 AM »
Hi,

Would like to see all the English teams in Europe given an option to play their games before or following a midweek European tie on a Saturday or Sunday - home or away.

Surely it's in the Premier League's own interest to give it's clubs in Europe this choice?

I am not saying anything is fixed but it is in their own interest for an exciting premier league with more than one team in with a chance come end of March. I am not saying that will happen but maybe they think it will.

:)

Offline hooded claw

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2005, 11:52:12 AM »
This is a timely corrective to Jose's persecution complex: from Football 365. Good read.

It must be several weeks now since I gave Chelsea both barrels. I even held back from asking how many Blues fans had subscribed to the 'Make Poverty History' campaign without thinking about how much their club's owner has done just to Make Poverty.

But the first press conference of the new season is such a farrago of lies and exaggeration that I have no choice but to do some basic research that seems to have been beyond Chelsea's head coach. A fault that actually undermined the one serious argument that he had to make.

Last season, Chelsea's Champions League campaign started with a trip to Paris St-Germain. The next weekend the Blues were at home. Then they hosted Porto. The next weekend the Blues were at home.

Then CSKA Moscow visited the Bridge. The next weekend the Blues were at home. Four days after the long return trip to Moscow, the Blues were at home.

Paris St-Germain then came to the Bridge. Chelsea faced the long, arduous trip to Charlton three days later. Chelsea's final group game was in Porto, on a Tuesday. Their next match? A tough one, admittedly, away to Arsenal, but on a Sunday.

And what that means, of course, is that after all six Champions League group matches last season, Chelsea played in London the following weekend.

Arsenal played at home after three of their matches and one of their away trips was across London to play Crystal Palace. But the other two away days were at Old Trafford and Anfield.

It is in light of this record, really, that Jose Mourinho's remarks about this season's fixture list need examining, if not by someone with medical qualifications then a lawyer in Chelsea's employ who could point out to him the quite astonishing weakness off his "argument" that the Premiership fixture list is somehow fixed against his side. It's just the luck of the draw, as simple as that.

Much in the way that Mr. Ferguson ignored Manchester United's good European draws and called their difficult ones fixed, Mourinho is simply one-eyed.

His attack on David Dein's role at the Football Association is superficially better grounded but wilts under any analysis.

First, the fixtures are compiled by the Premier League, not the FA. Second, Dein's role is not at all connected to disciplinary matters at Soho Square. Third, he was elected by the Premier League members as one of their representatives.

In an interesting piece of sophistry Chelsea are now trying to argue that Mourinho was merely wishing to see Dein's role discussed in the round at a time when the issue of conflicts of interest within the game is under scrutiny, not least from Lord, formerly Terry, Burns, who is conducting the independent inquiry into how the FA are run.

No one will be fooled for a moment by that argument that would say Chelsea want no one from within professional football to have any influence in the way the game is run.

And yet, get past ramblings that are either immensely cynical or else paranoid and you are left with a point that could have been made simply, temperately, effectively.

If, as reported, Arsene Wenger and Dein held a meeting with Julio Baptista behind Sevilla's back then they are guilty of the international version of the offence that Chelsea and Mourinho committed with regard to Ashley Cole.

Arsenal have been caught out on previous occasions. Marseille pursued them, successfully, to the Court for Arbitration in Sport over their handling of Mathieu Flamini's move to Highbury.

Yet the Gunners have claimed the moral high ground over Cole. Mourinho is right that Arsenal had an easy pass from too many, including me, over this aspect of the affair and they should be investigated for approaching Baptista.

But Mourinho's scattergun approach and ridiculous slurs mean that his half-decent point will largely be lost in the headlines. And it's his own fault.

There is, surely, an open-and-shut case against the Chelsea coach. And how depressing is it that he seems intent on using his club's bottomless pockets as a way to treat others with contempt.


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Offline zigackly

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2005, 12:20:51 PM »
Good article, cheers for that Jon.
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Offline montse

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2005, 12:39:11 PM »
I actually have to agree with Jose. 

Dein was involved in the committee that decided that fourth spot should get the cl place, and second (arse) will go straight into the groups.  I am not saying that dein lacks integrity.  Why allow this conflict of interest?  he should not have sat on the cl committee and nor gartside (bolton), who also could have been accused of a personal agenda.  Maybe Dein should stay but sub committees should be chosen with a bit more care?

Moanio, does have a point about these away fixtures, as it may cost chelsea the title.  of course it is random, but we do give privileges to cl sides, for example they have a bye in the second round of the league cup.  3 home, 3 away for all cl teams after cl games is not exactly rocket science.  it is clear that these games take their toll on league performance, and at the end of the day we want the fairest competition possible.  we should also get some help from the prem to help us cope with the world club championship.

the way moanio is crying foul is distasteful, but there are improvements that should be made.

 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2005, 12:47:05 PM by montse »
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Offline zigackly

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2005, 01:03:46 PM »
I actually have to agree with Jose. 

Dein was involved in the committee that decided that fourth spot should get the cl place, and second (arse) will go straight into the groups.  I am not saying that dein lacks integrity.  Why allow this conflict of interest?  he should not have sat on the cl committee and nor gartside (bolton), who also could have been accused of a personal agenda.  Maybe Dein should stay but sub committees should be chosen with a bit more care?

I don't believe either of them would have been allowed to vote on that issue. Unless you have something showing they did? Members of the panel are not allowed to vote on issues where there is a conflict of interest.
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Offline montse

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2005, 01:08:35 PM »
I don't believe either of them would have been allowed to vote on that issue. Unless you have something showing they did? Members of the panel are not allowed to vote on issues where there is a conflict of interest.

I don't know about the voting system, but why are they even in the room?  They must be involved in the debate or what is their purpose on the committee?
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Offline nickelodeon

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2005, 04:48:48 PM »
How many people have a voting right on the FA board?

I really think Rafa should have said something at the time the CL spots allocation decision was made. Although they had us in a corner as it would have been ridicule to complain before we had won the  thing...

Offline hindsy101

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2005, 07:34:52 PM »
Quote
The FA and the Premier League have responded strongly to Jose Mourinho's claims that Arsenal have received favouritism in the scheduling of fixtures, but a closer look at the information further undermines the Chelsea coach's position.

Chelsea's first away trip after Match Day One of the Champions League is across London in Charlton, while the next three post-Champions League fixtures are all played on Sundays giving Mourinho's men an extra day of rest. The fifth fixture is an hour's road journey to the south coast to play Portsmouth.

And while Chelsea have five away fixtures following Champions League nights, of course Arsenal have five road trips scheduled a couple of days before Champions League games.

And interestingly, if all 12 fixtures preceding and following Champions league nights are taken into account, Chelsea have seven home games and five away trips, while Arsenal have just five home matches and seven on the road.

Stick that up your bollocks José!

Offline WelshMike

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Re: Jose having another go...
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2005, 02:12:44 AM »
To be fair, all Chelsea are doing is preparing for their fate. If they were so confident in themselves then they'd shut up about everything and just win trophies. They know their downfall will come sooner or later, and this "the world is against us" attitude is just preperation for when their bubble does actually burst, because they'll be able to go on and on about rubbish like this then. Insecure club in many ways.
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