Author Topic: Flag Making Explained.  (Read 118465 times)

Offline Tarpaulin

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Flag Making Explained.
« on: December 6, 2004, 08:15:24 pm »
The art of making a Liverpool Flag/Banner.

Sounds a bit weird to have to tell people how to make a flag, but the amount of emails I get on it, and private messages, I just thought it best to clear it up once and for all and write the definitive explanation. May seem very detailed, but that's the part I get asked on most!!!

I've made a few flags so far with the lads I go the games with. The pictures below are of the main 2 that we have made in recent years.






The top one is what I would call a "traditional football flag" in the sense that it is letters actually stitched onto a background sheet. The bottom one is purely marker pens on sheet. Very basic, quite easy, and cheap.

A Traditional stitched flag.

First thing is to think of what you would like to see on the flag. Do you want it about a player, manager, history, future or what? Personally, I've always tried to stick away from Manc/Blueshite Baiting because unless the motto/saying you have is absolutely superb [i.e. – Don't bomb Iraq – Nuke Manchester] then it just sounds like bitterness and jealousy. I've always thought we should leave that to them to do.

Once you've decided on what you're going to say on the banner, its time to think about any additional badges etc [such as a Liverbird, Eternal Flame or Euro Cups etc]. Get a rough idea in your head of what you want, and better still knock something up on Photoshop or on scrap paper. Just so you can see the layout of words, badges and spaces.

Next, decide on the size of the banner. This is something I wish I had done better with the Houllier one. that flag is 4 metres wide by 3 metres high, and has always been a big pain in the arse. It's too big to hang in grounds as it hinders the view of those below, and it's too big to hold up when you are standing cos most of it just rests on the floor. In hindsight, I wouldn't make a banner bigger than 3 metres wide and 2 metres high. Just makes it easier. Id possibly even say, ideally you want 2 metres by 1.5 metres. You could take that anywhere.

Once you have a size decided you need to go out and buy the materials. Over time I've built up a knowledge of where I need to go to get the best material to suit what I want, and I also have a seamstress that I use to save me from having to mess about with the stitching myself. Use Yellow pages, and get a material shop to make a decent banner, and get the material cut off the role. [obviously, you can use bed sheets and similar – ill come to that later] You need a background colour [most people go for red] and then materials for your letters, badges etc.

Next is possibly the most important thing of all. Measurements.
I like to lay the background material out on the floor and use sheets of paper to show where badges, and symbols will fit, so I know how much letter space I will roughly have. As shown in the pic below.



It's important to get the measurement of your letters perfect to fit sound on the flag. Too big and yer goosed, too small and it will look crap. If you have background material that is 2.5 metres wide and 2 metres high, and you want to put the word "LIVERPOOL" across the flag, then you need to count the amount of letters and spaces [important] that are included. For "LIVERPOOL" it would be 9 letters and 8 spaces. So what I would do is delete the spaces 1st. Say 3cm per space [30mm] then I would decide how much space I would like either side of the word. Say 30cm [300mm]. so that the word is central. Then I know that 2.5metres [250cm] less the 2 x 30cm spaces is 190cm, and then less the 8 spaces is 166. That means you have 166cm to divide by the amount of letters. 166cm / 9 letters gives me near enough 18.5.

Each letter will be made 18.5cm wide.



I would then get a sheet of A4, or if the letter was too wide for this, something else. I would just measure by eye what height looks right with the letter being 18.5cm wide.  If I'm unable to fit the height and width of my letters onto a single sheet of A4, then I selotape a couple together. It's then a case of marking on these sheets the width and height I am working inside of. I then have to draw the letters using a ruler, to measure out exactly. This isn't really something I can explain; you just have to sit down and start to do it. See the picture below:





More recently I have messed about on MS word on the PC to get letters to the right width, and then just printed them all out, and then cut round them so I can use them as stencils on the material. As shown in the picture below.



Once I have the stencils for the letters cut out, its time for the pictures. I've got stencils saved on my PC [see pics below] and I can send these to people whenever.







- Once this is all printed, and cut out....its time to start drawing this onto the material you bought for the letters. Whether it was one colour, or a few. Draw round the paper stencils you now have, and once this is done cut out the letters/badges from the material. It sounds long and laborious [and I guess it can be] but if you get a couple of you on it. It's a couple of hours depending on what you are putting on the flag.


- Once they are all cut out, go and lay them onto the background material. This is the 1st point when you will get the effect of the flag, and all the time and effort now seems worth it. Lay it all out, make sure your measurements were all right. You don't wanna start sticking them on, incase you get to the other side of the flag and realise you've fucked up with the measuring.

- If I'm stitching letters on, then I tend to use "Bondaweb" or "wonderweb"...you can buy the later from most places [Asda, Tesco's etc – it's the stuff on rolls used by yer ma when you were young to turn yer long kecks up!!] Bondaweb is something you need to get from a proper material shop, and is slightly more expensive [at approx £1 per foot] but is better. Although both work ok.

- Lay all the letters out, with the bondaweb onto, and stick them one by one. As shown on the photo below. Just take yer time with it, and REMEMBER to put a towel underneath just to be sure ;) ;D.



- Once it's all stuck on, stand back and admire. It's now ready for the final stages.

- Personally, unless you are competent, I wouldn't try to do me own stitching? Otherwise all your effort can go out the window. Look in the Yellow pages for a "seamstress" or "dressmakers" and call them to see if they will do it. For my Houllier one I paid £25 for it to be stitched, for the Carra one its cost £20. [less letters]. Ask for the stitching to be "Over locking" this give it a sort of outline effect once it's done. Like on the outside of the club badge on the kit. [see below]



Well worth it.

It may seem very long winded, and people say "ahhh fuck it, ill just spray it" but if you want it too look sound, and you can be proud of yer efforts, then it's worth it. A quick spray can/paint job can be just as effective, but most crews have a decent stitched one these days as well. The quality will depend on the effort put in. The Houllier one took approx:

20 mins planning.
2/3 hours making stencils [didn't think of using PC then]
8-10 hours drawing them on, and cutting out.
2 Hours sticking onto the background.

It cost [material wise]:

£3 for the Red background
£2 for the white material for the letters
£20 to be stitched.

The New Carra flag took about 6 hours in total to make [cos we used PC], and has cost a total of £30.

The painted/sprayed flag.

The Justice Flag was something that we thought up 3 days before the Worthy cup final with Man Utd. We didn't have time to get the material or for the lady to sew it all together so we have to draw it on.

Just followed the basic principles above, and made stencils that we drew on with pencil and then coloured with basic permanent marker pens from Partners. We did go through about 3 black, and 10 Red pens to do it.

If you are gonna use paint, I'd use paints from Partners at £1.49 a pop [see pic below]. The stuff that kids use in school that has a very thick mixture but allows you to add water if you want it thinner. Just use it neat!



Happy Flag Makin'  :wave

Roper


« Last Edit: December 7, 2004, 05:45:03 am by Rushian »

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #1 on: December 6, 2004, 08:16:48 pm »
do you make any flags that aren't just little red crosses?

Offline dazzamatazz

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #2 on: December 6, 2004, 08:18:47 pm »
do you make any flags that aren't just little red crosses?

 ;D
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Offline Tarpaulin

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #3 on: December 6, 2004, 08:19:23 pm »
do you make any flags that aren't just little red crosses?

They all work fine for me mate.  ???

Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #4 on: December 6, 2004, 08:46:24 pm »
Gotta copy/paste them into a new browser. Dont think your host allows remote linking or whatever its called.
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Offline Tarpaulin

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #5 on: December 6, 2004, 08:58:20 pm »
Gotta copy/paste them into a new browser. Dont think your host allows remote linking or whatever its called.

Bollocks.  :no

MODS can you host the pics for me?

 ???

Offline ttnbd

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #6 on: December 6, 2004, 09:22:38 pm »


Is that the damage caused by the first banner mate? ;D ;D
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Offline 4SamiSami4

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #7 on: December 6, 2004, 09:26:08 pm »
Wouldn't disagree with anything in Roper's post - sounds like real deal to me.

A couple of shortcuts we have taken:

Mock up flag on PC (I use excel but anything will do).  Projector needs to be begged or borrowed (lucky for me can use works one).  Project it onto white material, preferably backwards to avoid pencil marks on front of white material.

Pencil round letters and shapes and cut out.  Project and pencil flag onto red material (right way around!). 

(Big Cheat) glue the white bits on with PVA glue (the white waterproof stuff).  Was unsure this would work but so far not lost anything and flag been on grounds and beaches since July 03.
« Last Edit: December 6, 2004, 09:28:49 pm by 4SamiSami4 »

Offline mikek1984

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #8 on: December 6, 2004, 09:42:50 pm »
i think im gonna start taking the flag making seriously now
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Offline red and white blood

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #9 on: December 6, 2004, 09:48:07 pm »
same here, i still think it will take me a few efforts before I get a decent one though. It seems like a good idea instead of trying to track one down.
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Offline RedBoywonder

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #10 on: December 6, 2004, 11:35:55 pm »
This is better than Blue peter!
All we needed for Andy to do was utter those imortal lines "Here's one I made earlier"

Well done john noaks  ;)
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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #11 on: December 7, 2004, 05:00:22 am »
do you make any flags that aren't just little red crosses?

Ark at the fuckin banner king  ;D
take a cheap nylon flag, buy a tin of white gloss, paint yer kitchen floor.
Fuckin class Roddy lad
Do you want me to bring yer Igor job along werdnesday, so you can demonstrate yer skills ?

A note for the novice
Price up all yer materials first, sometimes its cheaper to get one made professionally.
The one below would have been impossible to do at home
96 liverbirds and over 250 letters would have cost well over £100 and we'd still be stitching today.

I bought the material and JAZ'D' in King's Lynn did all the letters shapes and heat welding to my design.
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Offline Rushian

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #12 on: December 7, 2004, 05:48:23 am »
MODS can you host the pics for me?


sorted ...
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Offline Tarpaulin

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #13 on: December 7, 2004, 10:09:39 am »
sorted ...

Cheers mate.   :wave

The only thing im unsure of is this "Fire rating" that the flags are supposed to have, to be allowed in grounds - especially abroad.

Any ideas how that works?

Offline Gray-YPC

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #14 on: December 7, 2004, 10:17:48 am »
You forgot the most important aspect of the stitched on flag..........

1)  Cut out all the letters ready to stich on
2)  Lay out material taking up as much space and making as much mess as possible
3)  Ask mother to show how to use sewing machine
4)  Get it wrong
5)  Ask mother again
6)  Get it wrong
7)  Curse and go the pub, making sure enough mess is left
8)  Await mother to complete whilst in pub
9)  Return and say "you never had to do it... thanks"

It worked a treat for me!!
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Offline inky2

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #15 on: December 7, 2004, 10:22:53 am »
get down shep !!    ;)
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Offline Paul Ando

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #16 on: December 7, 2004, 12:38:14 pm »
Roper have you got a picture of the Carra one?
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Offline Tarpaulin

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #17 on: December 8, 2004, 05:35:21 pm »
Roper have you got a picture of the Carra one?

I have yeah, thanks!  :wave

Not gonna post any until after its debut at the game tonight.

Offline Woodbury

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #18 on: December 8, 2004, 05:44:03 pm »
You forgot the most important aspect of the stitched on flag..........

1)  Cut out all the letters ready to stich on
2)  Lay out material taking up as much space and making as much mess as possible
3)  Ask mother to show how to use sewing machine
4)  Get it wrong
5)  Ask mother again
6)  Get it wrong
7)  Curse and go the pub, making sure enough mess is left
8)  Await mother to complete whilst in pub
9)  Return and say "you never had to do it... thanks"

It worked a treat for me!!

 :lmao :lmao
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Offline Paul Ando

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #19 on: December 8, 2004, 11:47:52 pm »
I have yeah, thanks!  :wave

Not gonna post any until after its debut at the game tonight.

Sorry missed it. Was holding my "PAISLEY WON IT...." so any chance of posting the pic?

It has made its debut after all.... ;)
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Offline sammydodds

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2005, 11:03:03 am »
Another way of getting the letters perfect - Using A4 shipping labels and print them out using microsoft excel at the required font size. When printed out, stick them on the material and cut round, then place in hot water for 2 minutes and the adhesive paper comes off leaving you with a perfect letters.

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Offline IrishRed

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2005, 10:40:18 pm »
ideal size of banner?

any ideas?
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Offline morestellata

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2005, 10:45:42 pm »
 Bigger the better
 Redder the better
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Offline Scouser_Phil

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2005, 12:49:45 am »
Cheers mate gonna get started on my "Auf Weidersen Leverkusen" flag ASAP :)
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Offline bananaman

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2005, 11:32:52 am »
Seriosly some people have far too much time on there hands.

Flag making you should try love making or aren't you old enough.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2005, 11:38:35 am by bananaman »
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Offline castleman

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2005, 12:11:37 pm »
Seriosly some people have far too much time on there hands.

Flag making you should try love making or aren't you old enough.

Eh?
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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2005, 01:47:44 pm »
Seriosly some people have far too much time on there hands.

Flag making you should try love making or aren't you old enough.

done that twice already today, took all of 10 minutes now i'll get back to me flag :D

Offline nige

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2005, 01:49:19 pm »
Bigger the better


Dunno.  As  the bearer of  our Shankly flag I  often  wish  we'd  done him   6 or 7 feet tall instead of  9. the width  is OK at about 12 feet,  though I often have trouble finding him a spec.
9  feet is a bugger of a height. When you're on the streets with him  you need 2 blokes standing on a wall. This has led to errm, accidents & incidents..

we'll have to fold him in half  to hang him   at the millenium or the stewards on the bottom teir will  take him down.


Offline Tarpaulin

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2005, 02:15:38 pm »
I wouldnt recommend to big a flag to be honest mate, for 2 reasons:

1 - Its a pain to have to cart about and you struggle to find places to hang it.
2 - In the grounds you can sometimes be limited to how much hanging space you have, especially if its in a tier above the people below. If it hangs to much, you'll be asked to take it down.

I reackon no begger than 1.5 metres high, and you can make width accordingly. Id got for 2-2.5 metres.

Bananaman,

Quote
Flag making you should try love making or aren't you old enough.

Makin love? What type of real fella does that? I prefer to just fuck em senseless. But each to their own an all that.

Offline gfromtwodogs

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #29 on: March 1, 2005, 11:12:54 pm »
they are all class and i am going to start making one soon please post some suggestions to put on one and hopefully you will see it soon .i need to think of one to take to leverkusen

Offline ttnbd

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #30 on: March 1, 2005, 11:18:24 pm »

Bananaman,

Makin love? What type of real fella does that? I prefer to just fuck em senseless. But each to their own an all that.

;D

I think Eddie Murphy got it right in Raw on that count.
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Offline Tarpaulin

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #31 on: March 1, 2005, 11:20:46 pm »
;D

I think Eddie Murphy got it right in Raw on that count.

;)

Offline Roger

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #32 on: March 1, 2005, 11:25:26 pm »
Andy...

Saw you peering out of the car park...

any pics that we havn't seen??

 :wave


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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #33 on: March 2, 2005, 01:44:18 am »
Did mine in a similar way to some of Ropers 'instructions'.After printing out the letters off the computer I drew round them in pencil and then used Fabric paint to finish.Was well chuffed with the finished article.It's a bit old now but still has enough legs left until I do another one.When you've done your own there is a certain amount of pride involved.Having one made is near enough to cheating,unless it's a last resort or the design warrants it. 8)
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Offline mikek1984

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2005, 11:49:02 pm »
hi guys, does any one know of a place in the liverpool area that would make up a banner if we gave them the spec etc?
thanks
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Offline Bennett

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #35 on: April 1, 2005, 10:40:17 pm »
Roper (or anyone, really), interesting thread and very useful. I am hoping to start production, as it where, on a new Shankly flag. Wanting it to be very, very big, but have no clue how to go about getting a picture big enough for it. In your thread you say print out templates etc, but;
1) I have a Deskjet 930C which only prints out A4, and
2) I want an actual pic.

I know it's possible, I've seen it done, but me being a luddite am clueless.
Thanks for any help, in advance.
« Last Edit: April 2, 2005, 10:07:49 am by Bennett »

Offline Tarpaulin

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #36 on: April 2, 2005, 09:41:26 am »
With the anniversary soon, we could do with a few like these on the Kop. Im sure the big one will be there as it is every year.

Offline Bennett

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #37 on: April 2, 2005, 10:28:18 am »
Roper (or anyone, really), interesting thread and very useful. I am hoping to start production, as it where, on a new Shankly flag. Wanting it to be very, very big, but have no clue how to go about getting a picture big enough for it. In your thread you say print out templates etc, but;
1) I have a Deskjet 930C which only prints out A4, and
2) I want an actual pic.

I know it's possible, I've seen it done, but me being a luddite am clueless.
Thanks for any help, in advance.

Can anyone help?

 :-\

Offline Tarpaulin

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #38 on: April 2, 2005, 10:50:20 am »
Roper (or anyone, really), interesting thread and very useful. I am hoping to start production, as it where, on a new Shankly flag. Wanting it to be very, very big, but have no clue how to go about getting a picture big enough for it. In your thread you say print out templates etc, but;
1) I have a Deskjet 930C which only prints out A4, and
2) I want an actual pic.

I know it's possible, I've seen it done, but me being a luddite am clueless.
Thanks for any help, in advance.

Sorry mate - missed it 1st time round.

If you print it out on A4, it can be blown up on a photocopier.

It will end up as about 10 pages of A4 or whatever [depending on size] but it can be done. You just stick them all together like a jigsaw at the end, and there yer go.

I havent actually done that meself as yet mate, ive always hand drawn the Liverbirds...but I believe its a piece of piss.


Offline Tarpaulin

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Re: Flag Making Explained.
« Reply #39 on: April 2, 2005, 10:51:19 am »
hi guys, does any one know of a place in the liverpool area that would make up a banner if we gave them the spec etc?
thanks

IM me, I know somewhere.