Author Topic: Spurs: Par for the course?  (Read 7016 times)

hoonin

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Spurs: Par for the course?
« on: August 14, 2004, 03:15:09 pm »
An interesting match. As the saying goes, it was a game of two halves. If the first half saw a glipse of life under Rafa, with the team playing on instinct, then the second half represented a team playing from memory.

A 1-1 draw. On the balance of the two halves its probably a fair result and one that you have to be happy with. A new manager with new ideas probably raised expecations to unrealistic heights, but the realisation that he is working with a lightweight squad and a team shorn of a player thats been a focal point for the last half a decade should have brought people down to earth! An opening game in London, at a place where we more often than not come away with little, this was always going to be a tough opening match.

For 45 mins you could not fault what you were seeing. Bar the obvious (and known) issue of a lack of right sided midfielders we looked every inch a team that would defend as a unit but also look to break as a team too. It was good to see Riise looking to get forward and suplement the midfield options, as well as Gerrard and Hamann playing as equals rather than one being pideon-holed into just playing a holding role (Have long been an advocate of two mobile centre mids). Kewell saw plenty of the ball too, so the left side of the team is looking comfortable at this early stage of the season, even if the final ball needs to improve. Not much point on dwelling on the right hand side though. Guess we all know that Finnan is only a stop gap out there on the right,
 
If I'm honest I have to admit that the second half gave more more to worry about than to look forward to. A lack of cohession and balance (esp on the right) manifesting itself in a team that spent most of the half on the back foot. When you add to this the subsitution of both Cisse and Baros we were left with a team with little cutting edge and one that was always going to struggle to repeat the postitive efforts of the first 45 mins. As much as I rate Pongolle as a linking type of forward, I dont think he's the type of player to lead the line in a PL game! Still, we're short of options up front, so make do and mend as they say. Fitness comes with games, so I expect one or both of Milan and Cisse to play out 90 mins within a few weeks.

Being realistic though, was today anything more than we expected? If I'm honest my frame of mind this morning was not positive at all, I thought we could quite possibly come home empty handed. If anything, the match highlights the work that Rafa needs to carry out on the training ground, but we always knew this would be the case so theres no need to worry too much. I think Gerrards post match comments, where he suggested the manager would be disappointed with the team sitting back in the second half kind, gives an indictation as to the mentality Rafa is trying to instill in the players. He should be given the time to turn a mentality and way of thinking into a team and a way of playing.

So, in summary, a 1-1 draw was not a bad result and should give Rafa a good clue as to what he has to work with and what its like to play in the PL. If we play like we did in the first 45 minutes today in our first home game against City, then we should be in good shape to pick up 3 points. AS Rafa says.....one game at a time ;)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2004, 03:56:21 pm by Gareth »

Offline Liverpoolian

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Re: Par for the course?
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2004, 03:18:45 pm »
Nice match report  :)

I agree with Rafa - one game at a time. Though I would love to see us win but 1-1 isn't too bad
But early points are always crucial in establishing a strong position in the table so I hope we could sort out our consistency during the game.

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Re: Par for the course?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2004, 03:22:19 pm »
Pingu for right mid then?
It looks to me as if we have signed another 'average' player. I'll hold back my complete opinion until I see the lad play

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Re: Par for the course?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2004, 03:30:01 pm »
Think people are reaching for the panick button already when it isnt needed at all we played  very well in the 1st half and cisse scored a well earnt goal spurs deserved theyre goal after starting the second half brightly but everything permitting (Rafas 1st game, Owen etc.) I think it was OK and weve still got 37 games,thats 74 halfs to go
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Re: Par for the course?
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2004, 03:30:09 pm »
I think Gerrards post match comments, where he suggested the manager would be disappointed with the team sitting back in the second half kind, gives an indictation as to the mentality Rafa is trying to instill in the players. He should be given the time to turn a mentality and way of thinking into a team and a way of playing.


That is a very, very re-assuring comment, if Rafa hadnt put emphasis on not sitting back SG wouldnt have though to mention it I imagine. As you say, shows what the teams mentality will be when they are finally conforming 100% to what Rafa has to say, on paper I think this was the obvious result and when you look at the fact that we've lost 6 out of our last 7 trips to White Hart Lane I think it is, then this aint a bad start at all.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2004, 03:57:40 pm »
I think you’re right Gareth.

As unpleasant as it reads, Spurs and their ilk are probably the teams that Liverpool will have to combat for fourth place, which may even be beyond us this season. Expectations are now reserved for Champions League Qualification and it would be unfair to place pressure on the team to do any better.

The manager has to be given time and faith to affect the teams temperament and psychology, but it’s going to be a very long process. We have to accept that Rafa will need possibly two years before the team can start to challenge the top three such is the magnitude of his job.

Yet, we are all reactionary and the worrying aspect of the game was a dreadful sense of déjà vu.

Another bad substitution.

Another lead forfeited.

Another goalkeeping mistake.

And still no width.

Oh well, its all a learning curve I guess.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2004, 04:01:09 pm »
I think you’re right Gareth.

As unpleasant as it reads, Spurs and their ilk are probably the teams that Liverpool will have to combat for fourth place, which may even be beyond us this season.

WHAT? I never said anything of the sort, so how the fuck can you be agreeing with me?

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2004, 04:01:26 pm »
Someone needs to grab Baros, give him a slap, and tell him to get his foot on the ball.

The number of times other players would pass to him and he'd let it run across him only to find a spurs player poke it away.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2004, 04:02:34 pm »
Another bad substitution.

Another lead forfeited.

Another goalkeeping mistake.

And still no width.

Oh well, its all a learning curve I guess.

Bit harsh seeing as both forwards were visibly knackered and I don't think Jerzy is to blame for the goal either, more a central defensive issue as opposed to a goalkeeping one.
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2004, 04:09:35 pm »
The way I look at it at the moment is that we are currently 1pt better off than last season.
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2004, 04:16:23 pm »
Also, the opening 6 games are about not losing. We havent lost.

Remember, we have a great HOME start this season. No one big until Arsenal, in about 2 months. Should get maximum points from homes, so this is not a bad result.

If we went in half time 1-0 down then it would be looked at as a good result getting a point today.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2004, 04:19:09 pm »
The way I look at it at the moment is that we are currently 1pt better off than last season.

But we had 60 points last season ???

:D

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2004, 04:21:01 pm »
 ;D

and Carra got an assist... which is nice.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2004, 04:21:17 pm »
I was agreeing with your point of view in that recently ‘expectations’ have been raised to ‘unrealistic heights’. And that the game today was a match where we faced a team that are in a similar state of transition and arguably have a similar level of expectation.

That was the basis of my observation and not a misrepresentation to your overall comment.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2004, 04:21:53 pm »
So all say thanks to the Shanks

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2004, 04:23:35 pm »
I was agreeing with your point of view in that recently ‘expectations’ have been raised to ‘unrealistic heights’. And that the game today was a match where we faced a team that are in a similar state of transition and arguably have a similar level of expectation.

That was the basis of my observation and not a misrepresentation to your overall comment.


I agree that us and Spurs are in the same transitional state but I think our expectations are significantly higher than that of Spurs.
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2004, 04:26:18 pm »


I agree that us and Spurs are in the same transitional state but I think our expectations are significantly higher than that of Spurs.

Then you've never met a Spurs fan  ;D
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2004, 04:26:31 pm »


I agree that us and Spurs are in the same transitional state but I think our expectations are significantly higher than that of Spurs.

At the end of the day, I dont think either team should be expecting much more than 'progress'

When RB first came in there was a lot of silly hype. People claiming he'll win the titel in the first year like at Valencia, that he'll buy Aimar, Baraja and Ayala etc. It hasn't helped
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2004, 04:27:14 pm »
Agree that Spurs are in a state of transition, but no way can they expect to compete with us. Liverpool, this season have expectations well beyond the likes of Spurs, and rightly so.
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hoonin

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2004, 04:27:20 pm »
I was agreeing with your point of view in that recently ‘expectations’ have been raised to ‘unrealistic heights’. And that the game today was a match where we faced a team that are in a similar state of transition and arguably have a similar level of expectation.

That was the basis of my observation and not a misrepresentation to your overall comment.


Gotcha.... ;)

The rest of your post was a little odd too though, kind of came across as defeatest, as if you were expecting the same sort of management from Rafa as we had for Ged in his last 18 months.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2004, 05:12:33 pm »


Yet, we are all reactionary and the worrying aspect of the game was a dreadful sense of déjà vu.

Another bad substitution.

Another lead forfeited.

Another goalkeeping mistake.

And still no width.

Oh well, its all a learning curve I guess.

Nice one! First game of the new season, new manager in charge, some new players to the PL yet some are already moaning ffs! Do you wear a jester's hat and all?
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Offline Wendi

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2004, 05:18:42 pm »
Yes it was par for the course but why is that at all surprising?

We still have the same players (with less options in fact) and the same unbalanced, poorly structured side.

No RM. A slowish CB pairing. A slow, very defensive holding mid who provides Gerrard with no rest during the game at all. 2 out and out strikers with no options for the withdrawn role if we need variety. A LB who still hoofs. Gerrard is still the only driver. With no other midfield drive/options as soon as he tires 10%, we will sit back. It will happen.

Personally when I looked at all these things I didnt expect anything else.

30 points isnt "just  off the pace" or something that a set of new tactics is going to fix.  It will take time.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2004, 05:58:33 pm »
we've had a lot of difficult results from spurs inr ecent years. its by no means an easy place to go, and i'd rank them up with charlton in terms of bogey teams for us. a hell of a tricky game, especially considering they were also sporting a new manager and so a new playing style and a new attitude. id have happily taken a draw before the game, and anyone who criticises the team for the result is overlooking the fact that for much of the game we played with much more imagination than we have done in the past, and there seemed to be many more aattacking options available.

a decent result, and its good to see we're off the mark.

now lets turn over this city bunch next week!
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2004, 06:10:46 pm »
bang goes my prediction of a 114 point total for the season  :wave
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2004, 07:34:18 pm »
Good analysis Gareth... I did wonder where this defend higher tactic had gone in the 2nd half. the line where the defnce had previously been was now replaced by the midfield.

Riise is not an intelligent footballer for me, and still looks unsure where to pass. If he can't run, he stops and looks about for too long. And he was still guilty as much as anyone of long balls up the park... not as much posession football as I would've liked to have seen.

Kewell looked better than last year but knackered.
Good to see Carra heading at goal.
Cisse will adjust to the frantic pace soon
Baros needs to be less selfish especially now he knows he'll get a game.
Warnock seemed to gel well into the side
Hamann was good today actually. I thought he tackled well and was, as ever, a real thorn in their side.
Josemi - fair start.
 
Still, no word from Rafa that it should've have been a penalty - how unlucky we were etc ;)
and
nice to see the thanks to Ged banner on the telly.

Yep.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2004, 07:58:08 pm »
I'm just home now from the game... think I may do a proper post on the whole day but to be honest I came out of WHL and I was NOT a happy bunny  >:(

Felt like same old same old to me and yet again Baros did nothing to make me think he is up to the job.... however as I said I'll work on a proper game post becuase I did clam down  ;D

4 hrs on the Happy All's coach and I'm feeling better already  ;)
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2004, 07:59:14 pm »
nice to see the thanks to Ged banner on the telly.

Was the?  Nice one !  :)
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2004, 08:04:22 pm »
I came out of WHL and I was NOT a happy bunny >:(

Felt like same old same old to me

Am suprised by your harsh judgement of our 1st game Christine.

What did you expect? Rafa has had less than 2 months to work with a team that has, on the whole, been indoctrinated into 5 years of Houlliers tactics and training methods.

Come on people, we need to give Benitez, a two time La Liga winner, the time to shape  the team. If we're not prepared to give Rafa that time then we may as well have kept Houllier and stuck with what we have.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2004, 08:08:12 pm »
Gareth.... don't rush to judge...... when you read my post I will admit to my sins...... don't tell me off for being hasty when you haven't heard my opinion and have just done the same......

Note I said when I left WHL...... that was they key....
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2004, 08:14:23 pm »
you've got a key to WHL Chris ? Wow.... lock Redknapp in there for us   ;D   :wave
Yep.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2004, 08:22:38 pm »
you've got a key to WHL Chris ? Wow.... lock Redknapp in there for us   ;D   :wave

erm.... that sounds like a plan..... but I may have to keep him company... don't want the poor boy feeling lonely now do I  ;)  :wave
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2004, 08:23:26 pm »
 ;D
Yep.

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2004, 08:27:12 pm »
I liked the mentality shown in the after match comments between defoe and gerrard.

Defoe saying they were made up with the result (at home ffs?)

Gerrard saying it was a fair result but disappointed not to take all 3 points (away at an historically bogey ground)

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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2004, 08:44:24 pm »
I think the best two things we can take from it is
a) It was important not to lose the first match
b) Cisse scored his first competitive goal for Liverpool

If we wouldve lost we'd all b crying lamenting the loss of Owen, etc. This result means we dont get overexcited too quickly, but at least we saw enough to be positive.
Im not trying to say that not losing is something we should be happy with im just more patient given the circumstances.

Its been a tough week for us after all thats happened, remember we've done a lot of travelling in the last few weeks, then all the transfer sagas, Im sure it has affected the players, even just a little bit. The heat maybe took a little bit out as well.  :butt

Let's just turn our attentions to the week ahead, hopefully a few signings and 3 points against City
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2004, 08:51:19 pm »

Its been a tough week for us after all thats happened, remember we've done a lot of travelling in the last few weeks,

Excellent point and not to be underestimated. We have also had 2 games in 4 days with the exact same team. (its not like we have any players to rotate in!) ;)
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2004, 09:08:22 pm »
I'm just home now from the game... think I may do a proper post on the whole day but to be honest I came out of WHL and I was NOT a happy bunny  >:(

Felt like same old same old to me and yet again Baros did nothing to make me think he is up to the job.... however as I said I'll work on a proper game post becuase I did clam down  ;D

4 hrs on the Happy All's coach and I'm feeling better already  ;)

Agree with all that, apart from writing up a post on it.

Fuckin' roastin' Happy Al coaches though straight after, just what I wanted  :no  but they are a laugh like.
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2004, 09:29:52 pm »

Fuckin' roastin' Happy Al coaches though straight after, just what I wanted  :no  but they are a laugh like.

Not me we had air con.... it was lovely  :wave
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2004, 09:31:30 pm »
 :upyours :upyours :upyours

Which one was that like? Oh an btw  :upyours


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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2004, 09:45:02 pm »
I was coach number 1, and you?

oh and  :upyours right back at ye......
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Re: Spurs: Par for the course?
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2004, 09:46:56 pm »
 :o

Same coach.

The air con wasn't that good and only cooled down a bit once we got moving. Sitting near the ground was dead fuckin' hot.
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