Author Topic: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...  (Read 3935 times)

Offline oojason

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MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« on: March 12, 2024, 05:26:23 pm »
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A thread for MCOs in football - Multi-Club Ownerships (because the love of money, power and control in football is never enough; and FIFA are inept to the point of corruption)...

This'll be a thread to get the juices flowing... ;D



'Multi-club ownership in football is on the rise - and it's a financial and ethical minefield':-

European football is at the epicentre of a damaging trend that could destabilise the game

https://sportingintelligence832.substack.com/p/multi-club-ownership-in-football (by Steve Menary and Nick Harris; 21st February, 2024.)


'I read UEFA’s new benchmarking report on European club football over the weekend – there’s a news story on UEFA’s website, or get the report in full, now – and it contains a six-page section (pages 79-84) about multi-club ownership (writes Nick Harris).

The summary map is below, and when I tweeted about it, I was taken aback at the nearly unanimous negative responses to MCO groups in football. “Ban it”, “This sucks, man”, and a puke emoji; “Det här är helt galet. Fotbollen tar sig aldrig ur det här”, which translates as “This is absolutely crazy. Football will never get out of this”; and then the sarcastic “Healthy state of affairs”, with a thumb’s up emoji.





It seems obvious that there are multiple basic integrity issues at play – and not just the most egregious involving people who have attempted to establish match-fixing syndicates across clubs (more of which later), or want to launder money, or asset-strip.

There will, inevitably, be an increasing number of conflicts of interest as clubs in the same MCO group are drawn to face each other in the same competitions, for example European club football. But there are also problems with transfers and loans, and the stockpiling of players and fans' faith in why an owner wants their club.

Is it because they care about the club as a cherished local institution? Or because it’s a cog in a corporate machine, ultimately owned for the service of a bigger club higher up the food chain?

A former colleague, Rob Draper, considered one case study in this thread that perfectly illustrates how what’s important to fans is no longer a priority to some owners. Multi-club ownership groups will be motivated by different things: there may be a genuine desire to benefit from economies of scale, or a global scouting network with anchors in multiple continents, or a desire to lift standards across the board.

Meanwhile, over at the Red Bull group, the energy-drink firm with revenues of around €10bn in the last financial year, their acquisition of sports assets – including six football clubs in four countries across three continents – is ultimately about PR for their caffeine in a can.

When I was researching an MCO article last year, I was surprised to find that Ronaldo (the original Brazilian Ronaldo) owns two football clubs, and that Sheikh Abdullah of Sheffield United fame (who I’ve known for 11 years) owns five clubs.

But I was perhaps most surprised that Red Bull’s six clubs, combined, had cost them only around €56.4m in total to acquire or establish since 2005. That’s canny marketing and brilliant investing when you consider they now have clubs in the top divisions of Germany, Austria, the USA and Brazil, collectively worth many hundreds of millions, perhaps more than a billion.




^ The Red Bull group owns six football clubs in four countries, across three continents, including Bundesliga side RB Leipzig (above)


Although MCO owners’ motivations differ, they will all, in the end, boil down to self-interest. This was obvious when the Premier League in England attempted to introduce a temporary ban for the January 2024 transfer window on loan deals between clubs with the same ownership. There was also a suggestion that certain cash-strapped clubs needing to inflate their income might sell players at inflated prices to MCO partner clubs overseas.

There was a vote in November 2023 and 14 votes were needed to prevent clubs making related-party loans, but only 12 clubs voted for the temporary block, with eight opting against it. Those eight opposing sides – Chelsea, Manchester City, Newcastle, Everton, Nottingham Forest, Sheffield United, Wolverhampton Wanderers and Burnley – were all either involved in, or on the verge of being, in MCO structures.

When I looked at the MCO situation last year and focused on the biggest group – and arguably the most successful – City Football Group, it seemed obvious that new FIFA rules put in place to prevent stockpiling players could easily be circumvented by MCO groups shifting their stars from place to place.

I pointed out to FIFA that their new rules had an apparently massive loophole. FIFA sources suggested multi-club groups are throwing up issues to which there are no easy answers. A spokesman said: “At this stage we are not in a position to discuss potential scenarios.” Or, in other words: “We have no answer to the problems MCOs create.”


My piece ran in the MoS last May.





The brilliant investigative reporter Steve Menary has tracked MCO activity closely over many years. I heartily recommend you follow for his breadth of work in so many of football’s darkest corners.


Over to Steve now…



Three years ago, I started building up a list of clubs connected by joint ownership or with significant shareholders that have major stakes in other clubs (writes Steve Menary). By May 2021, I’d found 117 clubs involved in multi-club ownership controlled by 45 different groups. Since then, MCO has ballooned.

In October 2021, the number of clubs had risen to 156 (in the first of two pieces for Play The Game). The growth continued but two-thirds of the 177 clubs identified by early 2022 — in this piece for Off The Pitch — were in a portfolio of just two teams. By November 2022, the MCO boom saw 227 clubs caught up in this network (in this piece for Josimar). That shot up to 256 clubs by March 2023, in a second piece for Play The Game.

UEFA, which in its 2023 benchmarking report had found 180 clubs in MCO, now reckons this network is more than 300, while The CIES Football Observatory believes the total is closing in on 350 clubs. In my own research, I’ve found 336 clubs – but does that mean the number of clubs in MCO has tripled since I first looked?

The size of MCOs is constantly shifting. I found one club had been sold only on writing this piece, reducing the total by one. Not every connection is immediately evident and, though not hidden, it is not advertised either. Identifying every club in the world with joint ownership is impossible, because some links are also clouded by opaque ownership structures. As a result, making year-on-year comparisons is maybe not wise, but without doubt MCO has boomed – and 336 clubs is really a minimum figure.





These stakes are held by 125 different groups or owners, and Europe is the focus, with 112 MCO groups featuring at least one European side. Much of the investment into MCO groups has come from North America, where owners also have significant interests. There are 32 MCO groups with one or more clubs in North America and 29 also have stakes in clubs in Europe. Overall, 79 per cent of clubs in MCO are in the UEFA and CONCACAF regions.

The focus of these MCO groups is mainly western Europe, where TV rights are stronger and can be quickly realised. “There’s a lot more low-hanging fruit in European football,” Jamie Dinan, founder of hedge fund York Capital, told the Financial Times last year.

Many of the clubs being bought up were hit by lack of match-day income during the Covid-19 pandemic. Financially weak clubs are vulnerable and those in western Europe also own their own stadiums, which provides some form of security. This is likely the reason that just 20 of the 217 European clubs in MCOs are in eastern Europe.

Most of these private equity or venture capitalist groups that are buying up the ‘low-hanging fruit’ will have an exit in mind before they bought their stake; that’s simply how that industry works. If the financial institutions cannot meet their own profit targets, then fire sales are likely; players will go, and sides will be relegated. This is why Football Supporters Europe also vehemently opposes MCO, as was abundantly evident when I spoke at their 2023 congress in Manchester.

Fans of clubs within networks that are deemed secondary to other clubs are despondent. No-one wants to think of their club as ‘low-hanging fruit’. Fans of Paris side Red Star, which is owned by controversial US investment group 777 Partners, are working with their local member of parliament on a bill to outlaw MCO. The Red Star ultras are trying to unite fans not just in their own country but elsewhere in Europe against what they call ‘timeshare ownership’.

I found 22 French clubs in MCO, which is the fifth largest behind England (32), the USA (30), Spain (28) and Italy (27). It’s hardly surprising that England has the most clubs in MCO as the Premier League is the richest football competition in the world but seemingly no keener on trying to properly regulate MCO than any other body in global football.

One impact of MCO not given much consideration is the vast amounts of players that are caught in these structures. In UEFA’s 2023 benchmarking report, around 6,500 players were estimated to be under contract at the 180 MCO groups identified in 2022. Applying that same metric to the latest figure suggests that more than 12,000 players are at clubs in MCO. No wonder the global players union FIFPRO has such serious reservations about MCO.

If a sizeable MCO group collapses, it could spark financial contagion with serious side-effects for players and clubs. There are 25 MCO groups comprised of four or more clubs. If one MCO of four clubs collapses and brings its network down, that would be – using UEFA’s metric – more than 140 players unpaid, let alone all the ancillary staff at clubs.

The other reason to fear the contagious impact of a major MCO collapse is money owed on transfer fees. The full price of a player transfer is rarely paid in one lump sum. Stage payments are common and can be underwritten by financial institutions as clubs wait on TV or other commercial income. Billions of pounds of transfer fees are due at any one time. If a big MCO goes down and all the clubs in its network cannot meet their financial obligations to other clubs, then there would be a serious domino effect. Clubs they owe money to will need that money to meet their own financial obligations to other clubs.

The integrity of football is at stake, although anyone attending one of the myriad sports business conferences and listening to so-called experts extol the virtues of MCO wouldn’t realise it.

If anyone doubts the seriousness of the problem, then consider one of the earliest and largest MCOs comprised of ‘low-hanging fruit’ in the Czech Republic, Latvia, Portugal, the Republic of Ireland, Romania and Spain. The man behind that MCO, Eric Mao, turned out to be assembling a network for match-fixing.

Think that problem has gone away? Then think again. At least one of the MCO groups identified in research for this article is controlled by someone who was censured for not reporting knowledge of match fixing. The opportunities for player trafficking and money laundering among networks of small clubs are also plentiful.

As ‘low-hanging fruit’ continue to be harvested across Europe, the consequences need considering not discounting.'







Some other articles on MCOs... (MCO explainers, how it affects smaller clubs, impacts their fans, and takes away from clubs representing their communities + traditions etc) 


Multi-club ownership - A sensitive subject and here’s why: https://gameofthepeople.com/2023/09/21/multi-club-ownership-a-sensitive-subject-and-heres-why (a simple explainer)

Football is no longer the sole property of the people: https://gameofthepeople.com/2023/11/29/football-is-no-longer-the-sole-property-of-the-people

Corporate football - The reality of the beautiful game?: https://josimarfootball.com/2022/11/15/corporate-football-the-reality-of-the-beautiful-game

Football clubs were born to represent communities and fans, not owners: www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/jul/01/football-clubs-communities-fans-owners

The Massive Problem With Multi-Club Ownership: https://footballiconic.com/the-massive-problem-with-multi-club-ownership

Are Man City 'gaming the system'? Champions' 13-club group accused of 'financial doping'... with 36 starlets costing a total of £100m making just SIX starts in 127 years at the club between them: www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12132045/Are-Manchester-City-gaming-Champions-13-club-group-accused-stockpiling-players.html

Strasbourg fans in fury as Boehly loses battle for hearts & minds: www.theguardian.com/football/2024/feb/05/strasbourg-fans-in-fury-as-boehly-loses-battle-for-hearts-and-minds

Troyes: Man City's French affiliate abandoned by fans and in freefall - https://onefootball.com/en/news/feature-estac-troyes-manchester-citys-french-affiliate-abandoned-by-fans-and-in-freefall-38579102

^ and also at Troyes: www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2024/get-out-jerome-rothen-calls-for-city-group-to-leave-france-as-troyes-savio-nears-manchester-city-switch

How NAC Breda fans blocked their club’s City Football Group sale: www.joe.co.uk/sport/nac-breda-man-city-football-group-331831

Newcastle “interested” in multi-club model, says co-owner: www.sportspromedia.com/news/newcastle-united-amanda-staveley-multi-club-model-premier-league-ffp-rules

The biggest multi-club projects in football: www.90min.com/posts/the-biggest-multi-club-projects-in-football

The Rise of Multi-Club Ownership: https://swissramble.substack.com/p/the-rise-of-multi-club-ownership

The issues with multi-club ownership, from City Football Group to Red Bull: www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/38008353/the-issues-multi-club-ownership-city-football-group-red-bull

Multi-club ‘sharks’ pose a danger – they should be curbed, not encouraged: https://theathletic.com/4320747/2023/03/19/multi-club-ceferin-ownership (https://archive.is/WBxZy)

MCOs becomes the risky model for US' soccer spree: www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jun/17/multi-club-ownership-becomes-the-risky-model-for-americas-soccer-spree

Future of Football: Community or commodity?: www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12907464/future-of-football-community-or-commodity-who-will-own-football-in-20-years

Why is FSG pursuing a multi-club model and what’s in it for Liverpool?: https://theathletic.com/5338886/2024/03/13/fsg-liverpool-multi-club-explained (https://archive.is/9w6YI)






'⚽️ The total number of clubs involved in multi-club ownership (#MCO) at global level has now reached 300. More than a third of them are located in England, Spain, Italy and France 🌍' - https://twitter.com/CIESsportsintel/status/1717484671804813589 (October 2023)




'Why EVERYBODY Hates Multi-Club Ownership' - from Football Iconic:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/tqxwM9Azcpo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/tqxwM9Azcpo</a>

^ or click here to watch - www.youtube.com/v/tqxwM9Azcpo



'Why multi-club ownership poses a huge threat to football's future' - 11 minute video, from The Athletic:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/4U3FEwecx4w" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/4U3FEwecx4w</a>

^ or click here to watch - www.youtube.com/v/4U3FEwecx4w








Quote
RC Strasbourg supporter group Ultra Boys 90 have now released a statement demanding an explanation [from BlueCo ownership group (US owners of Chelsea)]:

“Racing is now nothing more than a financial asset, owned by an investment fund that already owns another football club. We’ve said it before, and we’ll say it again: Multiclub is killing football, and we’ll fight it!” said the statement.

“Two transfer windows have also come and gone, and all we can do is watch helplessly as our club is stripped of all its experienced players. In favour of young up-and-coming players. It is now clear that BlueCo requires the recruitment of players aged 23 years or less. We’re not fooled! No professional club can be competitive under these conditions.

“Without balanced recruitment, the tens of millions invested in these young players will not serve Racing but only the interests of the new owners.”
^ from https://www.insideworldfootball.com/2024/03/11/chelsea-owners-blueco-fire-fans-performing-rc-strasbourg (March 2024)

« Last Edit: March 16, 2024, 02:20:44 pm by oojason »
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Offline disgraced cake

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Re: MCOs - Multi-club ownership in football...
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2024, 05:41:12 pm »
Interesting to see how and when Liverpool's involvement with it begins. I'm dead against it personally unless there was some (highly unlikely to happen) case where it didn't involve a century old community asset being completely taken over so Liverpool could easier bring a few players through and some extremely rich men could get slightly more rich in Boston. I can already foresee some claiming how it'll be different/more ethical to what City/Chelsea/Leipzig etc have done and while it might not be on the same scale I will never be able to get behind it. Bit of a downer in Michael Edwards' return to the club.

Will it just be one club I wonder? For me 'group' signifies more than one even if it takes years to establish. I wonder who they go for.
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Offline Garlic Red

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2024, 06:55:21 pm »
There are undoubtedly positives for all parties in multi club ownership, but it really does eat away at the moral element of how I perceive the game and where the game’s going.

There’s nothing romantic about a smaller time club receiving investment as part of a scheme to monopolise football and essentially beef up the clubs at the very top. It’s not much different to what we’ve said about clubs like City and Newcastle. The game should be about parity, spreading funds and levelling the playing field, it shouldn’t be about winning lottery tickets and turning clubs into farms for Europe’s elite. Our own club is a pillar of its community, could you imagine if we weren’t lucky enough to be the giant that we are and news was breaking a big club’s owner was purchasing us as part of a plan to professionalise farming talent to feed the food chain at the top? Where’s the soul in that? Is that what people really want from the sport?

The game I fell in love with continues drift further and further away into the sunset. We’re being told that new sustainability rules etc should be levelling things, preventing domination etc but this just stinks of another loophole. What’s the next way to break the financial shackles? Buy a club abroad, sign untested talented for true valuations then sign them for your top club at a fraction of the price, with your own money staying in your own pocket. Genius? Revolting.

Online MonsLibpool

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2024, 06:58:37 pm »
We have to do it to avoid getting left behind. The regulators seem fine with it.

Offline DelTrotter

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2024, 07:00:46 pm »
We have to do it to avoid getting left behind.

This is becoming the go to line to defend it but it's a load of shit isn't it?

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2024, 07:03:57 pm »
This is becoming the go to line to defend it but it's a load of shit isn't it?
If the regulators do nothing then we'll have to venture into it eventually.

I'm not the biggest fan of the idea but that's the reality.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2024, 07:05:43 pm »
This is becoming the go to line to defend it but it's a load of shit isn't it?
Same as with the sportswashing. "We have to be sportswashed or we'll be left behind". A mantra Che Neville and the like have been pushing for ages.

It feels like a race towards the bottom of the barrel to me.
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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2024, 07:08:35 pm »
Same as with the sportswashing. "We have to be sportswashed or we'll be left behind". A mantra Che Neville and the like have been pushing for ages.

It feels like a race towards the bottom of the barrel to me.
It's more comparable to commercials revenue when the PL was established. We were left behind because we didn't warm to the idea at first.

It's up to the regulators to do something but they don't care.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2024, 07:21:51 pm »
It's more comparable to commercials revenue when the PL was established. We were left behind because we didn't warm to the idea at first.

It's up to the regulators to do something but they don't care.
Oh, I think you're probably right. It'll probably be another thing we'll have to do at some point or other if this is the way it's going.

I remember football turning overtly commercial. I never liked it. It felt like the kind of thing Man United did while we got on with the job of actually winning trophies. Sadly, the world went their way and they had the head start then. I never even liked shirt sponsorship, despite us being the first to do it here. Maybe I'm just an old Luddite. 😃
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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2024, 07:22:28 pm »
Same as with the sportswashing. "We have to be sportswashed or we'll be left behind". A mantra Che Neville and the like have been pushing for ages.

It feels like a race towards the bottom of the barrel to me.

Yeah i don't understand it,why do we have accept or embrace something or be left behind. From what?

It's just not right,like it's not right having nation states owning football clubs,legitimate commercial development of the club is something completely different and there's no connection between the issues.

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2024, 07:24:45 pm »
Adapt or Die.

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2024, 07:31:42 pm »
Great read.

Think it's shite to be honest.
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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2024, 07:33:23 pm »
Unfortunately Abu Dhabi have changed the game for the worse. I’m not a fan of multi-club ownership at all, but I guess the club see it as an inevitability if they want to compete.
Just another thing to add to the list of things I don’t like about football.

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2024, 07:34:06 pm »
Oh, I think you're probably right. It'll probably be another thing we'll have to do at some point or other if this is the way it's going.

I remember football turning overtly commercial. I never liked it. It felt like the kind of thing Man United did while we got on with the job of actually winning trophies. Sadly, the world went their way and they had the head start then. I never even liked shirt sponsorship, despite us being the first to do it here. Maybe I'm just an old Luddite. 😃
It's just the way football is.

Players based in Europe are becoming too expensive to the FFP restrictions. Even a Benfica os quoting €100m for every half-decent player.

MCO+the relaxation of visa restrictions for South Americans is a means clubs want to employ to avoid overpaying for talent. Having a club gives a lot more information on players than having a scout there.

So you can buy €100m players for €10m. I guess we're venturing into it so that FSG can continue meeting their promise in the medium term i.e to never overpay for a player.

If our competitors can buy better players for less like Alvarez for £14m and we're being quoted £60m for similar players based in Europe then obviously they'll have an advantage over us. That's what we're trying to avoid.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2024, 07:35:45 pm by MonsLibpool »

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2024, 07:34:29 pm »
Yeah i don't understand it,why do we have accept or embrace something or be left behind. From what?

It's just not right,like it's not right having nation states owning football clubs,legitimate commercial development of the club is something completely different and there's no connection between the issues.
I suppose Samie's short reply pretty much covers it, unfortunately.

There's been so much in the game we've had to adapt to and adopt, whether we like it or not. The rampant commercialism, all seater stadia, obscene admission prices, £115 replica shirt prices, kit looking like advertising billboards etc...

Choices have to be made. You decide to swim against the tide or go with it. In many ways, if you swim against the tide you keep your integrity, but might end up drowned.  :-\
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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2024, 07:42:05 pm »
I suppose Samie's short reply pretty much covers it, unfortunately.

There's been so much in the game we've had to adapt to and adopt, whether we like it or not. The rampant commercialism, all seater stadia, obscene admission prices, £115 replica shirt prices, kit looking like advertising billboards etc...

Choices have to be made. You decide to swim against the tide or go with it. In many ways, if you swim against the tide you keep your integrity, but might end up drowned.  :-\

I don't like it either but it's not just us. If our owners adopt this approach, it'll be getting a club with a view to ultimately servicing ours. It might be beneficial for them - with the right investment, they might get better in their own right and win things, get into Europe/Champions League but the decisions made will always be in the name of the bigger picture for the 'footballing group' instead of the best for that individual club (one which has it's own unique identity and history). Their fans won't have their own club. It just feels a bit icky.

Not gonna lie though, this period under Klopp has been incredible but we've had to ride out some horrible seasons prior to that, particularly from around 2009 to 2015, barring a few exceptions. If this happens and we remain competitive, I don't think I'll be complaining.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2024, 07:43:47 pm by Hazell »
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Offline rob1966

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2024, 08:33:17 pm »
Oh, I think you're probably right. It'll probably be another thing we'll have to do at some point or other if this is the way it's going.

I remember football turning overtly commercial. I never liked it. It felt like the kind of thing Man United did while we got on with the job of actually winning trophies. Sadly, the world went their way and they had the head start then. I never even liked shirt sponsorship, despite us being the first to do it here. Maybe I'm just an old Luddite. 😃

We're doing it, its a part of Michael Edwards new role

FSG looking at buying a second club


The offer made to bring Edwards back also included helping to identify and subsequently manage a second club.

"One of the biggest factors in my decision is the commitment to acquire and oversee an additional club, growing this area of their organisation," said Edwards.

"I believe that to remain competitive, investment and expansion of the current football portfolio is necessary."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68532349
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Offline Samie

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2024, 04:02:13 am »
One rumour is that FSG might be looking into buying a French club.   :D

St Etienne anyone?  ;D


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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2024, 06:16:11 am »
Same as with the sportswashing. "We have to be sportswashed or we'll be left behind". A mantra Che Neville and the like have been pushing for ages.

It feels like a race towards the bottom of the barrel to me.

People will do anything it seems to avoid being left behind, it just shows how in the end it plays on people's insecurities. It won't be long be people say the same about ownership models as well, it's all the same thing.
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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2024, 06:20:56 am »
People will do anything it seems to avoid being left behind, it just shows how in the end it plays on people's insecurities. It won't be long be people say the same about ownership models as well, it's all the same thing.
"I believe that to remain competitive, investment and expansion of the current football portfolio is necessary."

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2024, 06:24:11 am »
"I believe that to remain competitive, investment and expansion of the current football portfolio is necessary."

And? If this is what we have to do, then it's been fun but it's not the same game anymore. I cannot support this sort of stuff.
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2024, 06:48:14 am »
We have to do it to avoid getting left behind. The regulators seem fine with it.

What's your opinion of us being bought out by a sovereign state?
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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2024, 06:56:12 am »
What's your opinion of us being bought out by a sovereign state?
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=354420.msg19253490#msg19253490

This is for the mindreaders LOL.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 06:57:49 am by MonsLibpool »

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2024, 07:01:14 am »
"I believe that to remain competitive, investment and expansion of the current football portfolio is necessary."

Bollocks

I'd rather go and play in the 2nd division and waive promotion than get involved with this sort of shite, if the geg ins don't like it cos it's not what they signed up for then fuck 'em, some things are more important

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2024, 07:34:09 am »
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=354420.msg19253490#msg19253490

This is for the mindreaders LOL.

So if we're not being left behind because we're not owned by a sovereign state why would we be if we don't follow this model?

I'm against it in every shape and form. I want whatever owners we have to be focused on us as being their only football interest. I'd hate to be in the position that Man City/Girona could potentially be in this season where the owners have to consider which one of their clubs is going to get a CL slot.
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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2024, 07:37:48 am »
So if we're not being left behind because we're not owned by a sovereign state why would we be if we don't follow this model?

I'm against it in every shape and form. I want whatever owners we have to be focused on us as being their only football interest. I'd hate to be in the position that Man City/Girona could potentially be in this season where the owners have to consider which one of their clubs is going to get a CL slot.
I have already explained the reason earlier in this thread and I already said I'm not the biggest fan.

With FFP and inflated prices, if our rivals cut out the middleman and we don't,  we'll fall behind. It's very simple.

It doesn't mean the other club/clubs should be feeders. It can be mutually beneficial with them getting players that aren't quite ready for us and if it's a club on another continent, we're not really competing with them. My POV is that it can be used to expand our scouting network.

For sportswashers,  they are redundant for a club like us anyway with the new rules.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 07:39:58 am by MonsLibpool »

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2024, 07:46:46 am »
All this says to me is that our owners see which way the wind is blowing and are course correcting. I don't like it, but it's probably needed for long term success. Problem as always lies with the governing bodies.

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2024, 08:12:58 am »
All this says to me is that our owners see which way the wind is blowing and are course correcting. I don't like it, but it's probably needed for long term success. Problem as always lies with the governing bodies.
MCO proves what I've been saying for a while: FFP has teeth now hence clubs need to find value in the transfer market.

It's the reason why Brighton have been so successful in the transfer market. I remember people on here wondering how they found so many players for good value last season. It's simply because they can take more risks of players that are not quite ready and loan them so that they can adapt to Europe.

It can be done in an ethical manner. We don't have to do a City. IMO, the most important thing is to acquire clubs that we won't compete with to avoid a conflict of interests. That's why we have someone like Edwards running it.

If we want to acquire a club in Europe, I'd acquire a Ligue 2 team because French football is quite similar and it would allow us to blood South American talents.

Also, ut's important because if we don't venture into it, it'll undo all the good work FSG have done to close the financial gap on other teams. If they are getting players cheaper prices then we'll fall behind again. They are just being proactive.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 08:16:19 am by MonsLibpool »

Offline xbugawugax

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2024, 08:18:24 am »
great starting post. Just opened our eyes to what looks like the future of football.

think if done right could benefit the parent and as well as child clubs

We all know FSG and how it likes its football club run. and thats how it should be. The oil c*nts should just fuck off with state investments.

like many here i do hope we acquire a club in europe. we already do have deals done with clubs we are friendly with. This is just expanding the horizons on what can be done.

Obviously there have to be some check and balances but doubt it will happen looking at the chelseas, and newcastles.

Its unfortunate thats how football have become as we look forward to next world cup in north korea or whoever have the most brown evelopes.

Offline JRed

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2024, 08:56:28 am »
Maybe we should acquire Everton and use them as a feeder club?

Offline Bullet500

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2024, 09:14:39 am »
Everything is just late stage capitalism.

MCOs in the same confederation shouldn't be allowed.

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2024, 11:03:31 am »
Don't care if FSG buy another club my level of interest will equal to my interest in the Red Sox .... zero
i sincerely hope there won't be threads on here anointing said club with "sister" status or whatever, that would be cringeworthy.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2024, 11:12:47 am »
This is becoming the go to line to defend it but it's a load of shit isn't it?
Very much so.

There's no imperitive. If someone is in favour of it, just be honest. They want LFC to be exploitative, and to take advantage of the financial 'doping' equivalent of the PL tv riches to take the piss out of the heritage of other football teams and culture in other countries.

Let's not go down the same route as other fanbases we deride, by laundering the perception of our ownerships decisions no matter what. Just be honest

Offline Schmidt

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2024, 11:15:10 am »
Don't care if FSG buy another club my level of interest will equal to my interest in the Red Sox .... zero
i sincerely hope there won't be threads on here anointing said club with "sister" status or whatever, that would be cringeworthy.

If players are going to another club under FSG with the possibility of eventually arriving at LFC, then of course people will show an interest in them. Fans of different clubs developing a relationship off the back of sharing an owner seems like one of the more positive aspects of this.

My view is that this shouldn't be allowed primarily because of how easy it is to abuse. That said, it is currently allowed and FSG's strategy has never been to asset strip or circumvent the rules, so it would likely be a good thing for all parties in our case.

Offline CornerFlag

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2024, 11:53:13 am »
I hate the idea.  Having MCO in football stinks already and I'd hate to be a part of it ourselves.  If it has to be done then it shouldn't be another club in UEFA, I think any sort of MCO model shouldn't cover multiple clubs in the same confederation, but to me it shouldn't be happening at all.  It's another factor that doesn't put the fans at the centre of the game, it's rich people getting richer at the expense of people ostensibly poorer than they are.

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2024, 11:58:53 am »
Very much so.

There's no imperitive. If someone is in favour of it, just be honest. They want LFC to be exploitative, and to take advantage of the financial 'doping' equivalent of the PL tv riches to take the piss out of the heritage of other football teams and culture in other countries.

Let's not go down the same route as other fanbases we deride, by laundering the perception of our ownerships decisions no matter what. Just be honest

Absolutely this, 100%.
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Offline Darwinsawinsawin

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2024, 12:10:24 pm »
Very much against it in the same confederation, but if it was a team in South America it might as well be a team on Mars, as we'd only ever meet in a club world cup type competition, meaning both teams are doing extremely well.

I'm sure there are teams in Brazil or Argentina that would welcome financial stability, an expanded network and world class expertise. A lot of people are jealous of the Brighton model where they sign exciting talent seemingly from nowhere, but Liverpool can't do that. We maybe tried with Fabio Carvalho but the second you can't play them they stop developing and stagnate. There were also murmurs in the case of Enzo Fernandez and Moises Caicedo that these names were well known in certain circles before they got to Benfica and Brighton, but they wouldn't be the 100m midfielders they are today if they went to liverpool and played u23 football.

Having an agreement with, let's say Internacional (play in red), where they get Liverpool's scouting network and sign ten potential world beaters, and Liverpool maybe get a discount on one or two, all the while they are winning leagues and doing well in their CL, I think that's a win-win situation

Offline disgraced cake

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2024, 12:18:07 pm »
I don't really buy the 'you have to do it eventually to compete' stuff either. Ourselves and many other clubs are doing pretty well without doing so even in the days of MCOs. One thing I've never liked about FSG is the whole portfolio thing, I don't even mind being owned by them I just wish Liverpool were the one and only thing that mattered to whatever group it is that owns the club. Ultimately, it all comes down to money though, they aren't going to sink hundreds of millions into a new operation just for fun, they'll expect some return on things. I personally expect it'll be a European side they look to buy.

I think an interesting case to look to would be Union SG in Belgium. Obviously familiar with them this season. Seems they've spent the last fifty odd years outside the top flight before 2021. All of a sudden they're seeing good footballers, winning football that takes them up straight away, challenging for two titles in two seasons and probably going on to win it this season. European football is probably a near guarantee under their structure going forward (plus a new competition meaning another spot), going all over Europe and maybe playing an occasional giant like Liverpool. Their fans must love it, surely? Maybe in their own minds it's better to be owned by a Brighton than say a Chelsea. Doing things 'the right way', not that I'd agree it's right.

Either way it feels you're a bit of a loser if you have any moral conscious about the whole thing. The team succeeds and you help change things in that league just so you can get a couple of better players in (who you can afford to lose the money on anyway even if it doesn't work out), or they do shit and you help erode the identity of what the club was. Maybe I'm looking at things in too much depth.
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Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2024, 12:28:26 pm »
Very much so.

There's no imperitive. If someone is in favour of it, just be honest. They want LFC to be exploitative, and to take advantage of the financial 'doping' equivalent of the PL tv riches to take the piss out of the heritage of other football teams and culture in other countries.

Let's not go down the same route as other fanbases we deride, by laundering the perception of our ownerships decisions no matter what. Just be honest

Agree.
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Re: MCOs - Multi-Club Ownerships in football...
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2024, 12:48:33 pm »
Shite state of affairs.