Author Topic: The Labour Party (*)  (Read 878932 times)

Online oldfordie

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5280 on: March 24, 2017, 10:03:17 pm »
Even after the realisation that we will leave the single market, the polls have showed the public is still backing Brexit and just want to get on with it. Not only that but Labour needs to win in many areas that voted for Brexit if it ever wants to get into government again, i'm sorry but the Brexit mess was decided long ago. The polls also show the public values stronger control over our borders than being in the single market http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/752210/Immigration-border-control-single-market-free-trade-Brexit-EU-Theresa-May-Britain-poll
Why was Corbyn talking about the Norwegian option in June.the Norway deal means access to the single market. if Corbyn believed people all voted to leave the SM then he had no right to do this. so why was he not outraged when the Torys told him everyone voted to leave the single market, I was fuming.
It was up to Labour to fight the hard right rhetoric of everyone knew we voted to leave the single market. people aren't backing leaving the single market they have been convinced the country voted for it. we all know how fickle voters are when things go wrong.
Lets see their reaction in the next few yrs. this was always about having the foresight to see the Tory Brexit is a big mistake and Labour should distance themselves from it.
Am not convinced the polls tell us the true story, the Lib Dem vote is up. lets see what happens in the Manchester by election. the Lib Dem vote will be far bigger. I dont expect them to win, it's a solid seat but they will take many votes away from Labour.
The GE is another matter. by then views will be a lot stronger.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5281 on: March 24, 2017, 10:42:27 pm »
From Reddit:

This "historic win" involved them standing for eight seats out of a hundred, one of which was unopposed. Of the remaining seven seats, they got four councilmen elected on a total of 1250 votes. The remaining three candidates got 50, 22 and 6 votes each.

The wards they won in are three of the four large residential wards - they really stand no chance elsewhere, where all the electors are employees of local businesses.

6 votes :lmao

Funny what digging even slightly deeper than the headline will reveal.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5282 on: March 24, 2017, 11:11:09 pm »
6 votes :lmao

Funny what digging even slightly deeper than the headline will reveal.

Corbyn, to his credit (or perhaps because his dozens of staff don't work late), hasn't claimed this one as a major victory ignored only because of a media conspiracy. Yet.

Offline B0151?

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5283 on: March 25, 2017, 03:37:26 pm »
Starmer says.
“Everyone says: ‘What about the 48%?’ Well, I’m one of the 48%, and my family is part of the 48%, and many of my friends and colleagues are part of the 48%. But we had a referendum, and we had a result. You can’t logically then say, ‘I accept the result, but I won’t let the prime minister start the process.

We had a referendum vote last June. the Country went from discussing a soft Brexit in June to everybody knows we voted to leave the single market in March, Corbyns Labour should have fought this lie, they weren't just fighting for the 48%, that's rubbish. the majority of people did not vote for a hard Brexit. they needed to respect the wishes of  60-70% of voters who didn't vote to leave the single market.
Labour had every right to refuse to vote to trigger art 50 until the Torys proved the majority of voters voted to leave the single market. the Torys abused the result of the referendum to impose a a Tory hard Brexit on the country.

I'm not saying that Labour have been good on Brexit

But I think the thing about what you're saying is just the reason why referendums can be a shite way to decide things. Decisive by nature and fought on best/worst scenarios. It's up to either side to make clear the worst possibilities of what will happen if they lose, precisely for the reason that the decision is so binary... The Out won in spite of Remain side being very pronounced about the dangers of a hard Brexit. The public had that argument in front of them and enough of them decided to ignore it and go with the Brexit.

I did find Blair's take on it convincing though... If public support went against it there should be a rethink. Right now though as Crosby Wych says it seems they're still supporting it even with hard Brexit looking likely.

Online oldfordie

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5284 on: March 25, 2017, 04:14:57 pm »
I'm not saying that Labour have been good on Brexit

But I think the thing about what you're saying is just the reason why referendums can be a shite way to decide things. Decisive by nature and fought on best/worst scenarios. It's up to either side to make clear the worst possibilities of what will happen if they lose, precisely for the reason that the decision is so binary... The Out won in spite of Remain side being very pronounced about the dangers of a hard Brexit. The public had that argument in front of them and enough of them decided to ignore it and go with the Brexit.

I did find Blair's take on it convincing though... If public support went against it there should be a rethink. Right now though as Crosby Wych says it seems they're still supporting it even with hard Brexit looking likely.
I think were all agreed, referendums on such important issues like Brexit shouldn't be held.
Your missing my main point. am not putting forward any argument to stay because lies were told before the referendum am making the argument based on the lies told after the referendum.
May says she has a mandate for a hard Brexit. she says everyone knew we were voting to leave the single market. I cant dispute the fact people voted to leave but I can prove Mays argument of everyone voting to leave the single market is a lie. the evidence shows us this is impossible. people did fall for lies and they voted to remain in the single market so we could have our cake and eat it.
They shouldn't be allowed to squirm out of these promises by claiming everyone voted to leave the single market. this lie only came out after the vote.
Labour should have stopped them in their tracks and told May to prove it otherwise deliver the Brexit your ministers campaigned for. full access to the single market. no FOM.no EU bureaucracy. the right to negotiate our own trade deals.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 04:19:54 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5285 on: March 25, 2017, 06:54:43 pm »
Labour, sorry Momentum, with a head in the sand conference today. Able to mobilise a following never before seen in British history and the future of politics apparently.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5286 on: March 25, 2017, 08:54:44 pm »
Labour, sorry Momentum, with a head in the sand conference today. Able to mobilise a following never before seen in British history and the future of politics apparently.

 Genuinely just looked like the usual rabble of SWP long timers, Stop the War Trots and Bennite cranks from the 80s.

 And that was just McDonnell and Fisher.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5287 on: March 26, 2017, 01:07:31 pm »
Oh god.. why do I watch the fool.

His comments on prevent this morning were ridiculous. 

He doesn't actually seem to have any idea what prevent is or how it works. 

Once again I am flabbergasted.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5288 on: March 26, 2017, 01:11:21 pm »
Oh god.. why do I watch the fool.

His comments on prevent this morning were ridiculous. 

He doesn't actually seem to have any idea what prevent is or how it works. 

Once again I am flabbergasted.

Prevent has had some issues. Also Diane Abbott was the first to go on Newsnight and bad mouth it after the attack on Wednesday.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5289 on: March 26, 2017, 01:12:54 pm »
Prevent has had some issues. Also Diane Abbott was the first to go on Newsnight and bad mouth it after the attack on Wednesday.
Which issues might those be?

“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5290 on: March 26, 2017, 01:16:04 pm »
Which issues might those be?



I am no expert nor critic of the scheme at all as i dont have the full knowledge of it but i do know that some of the smaller off shoot projects funded by it have been quite resented in the muslim community plus you had the hidden camera issue in the midlands.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5291 on: March 26, 2017, 01:32:21 pm »
In a wide-ranging interview with Robert Peston, the Labour leader said:

The government's Prevent counter-terror strategy is "often counter-productive" and needs to be broadened to stop it casting "suspicion" over the whole Muslim community in the UK.

I'm gonna stick my neck out and say:

1. Extending a counter-terrorism initiative to all communities (does Jeremy mean the entire country or, you know... *wink*... "communities?) may be counter-productive.
2. Whilst PREVENT officers are monitoring the Andorran Friendship Society they run the risk of missing more credible or urgent terrorist threats.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5292 on: March 26, 2017, 02:28:27 pm »
Prevent is aimed at all forms of extremism..

In schools it's a type of safeguarding.  The stories that have made headlines are down to not following the basic principles of the prevent strategy..
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5293 on: March 26, 2017, 03:11:14 pm »
Oh god.. why do I watch the fool.

His comments on prevent this morning were ridiculous. 

He doesn't actually seem to have any idea what prevent is or how it works. 

Once again I am flabbergasted.

I'm sure it'll be another vote winner!

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5294 on: March 26, 2017, 04:29:46 pm »
Prevent has had some issues.

It shuts down debate in classrooms for fear of being reported, which could actually temper terrorism.

It's based on the belief that holding radical Islamic views puts you on the conveyor belt of terrorism, resulting in the requirement to report non violent radical behaviour. Which, on a personal level would have resulted in me being put through Channel at the age of 12 which would have been unnecessary as I did not grow up into a terrorist.

It creates greater risk assessment within society, when you would have to question whether the likes of teachers/lecturers (with minimal training) are that well equipped or should be tasked with it.

Being wrongly targeted, as the vast majority are can result in feelings of isolation for individuals.

Bearing in mind, it targets pre criminality, you can never quantify its' success.

That's before we discuss the relevance of whether you or I have what the Government ascribes as 'British Values' and what clear path this will lead to, or its divisiveness; if we don't.
Where's this Yakimoto fella?

Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5295 on: March 26, 2017, 04:44:29 pm »
I am no expert nor critic of the scheme at all as i dont have the full knowledge of it but i do know that some of the smaller off shoot projects funded by it have been quite resented in the muslim community plus you had the hidden camera issue in the midlands.

It's a really difficult problem. It's a bit catch-22. Home-grown radicalised Islamist terrorists are the main terrorist threat in the U.K.  Young Muslim men are susceptible to radicalisation when they feel alienated and treated as suspicious. Any attempt to address the issue by tackling radicalisation of young Muslim men can also be seen as alienating and as treating all young Muslims as suspicious. (As johnnyboy's post above).

'Broadening out' (whatever that means) isn't going to do anything useful. In fact I'm not sure what 'broadening out' even means in this context.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 04:46:54 pm by Alan_X »
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5296 on: March 26, 2017, 04:50:05 pm »
It shuts down debate in classrooms for fear of being reported, which could actually temper terrorism.
. Utter nonsense.  Done correctly, it's designed to do exactly that.  Open up debate to temper extremism
Quote

It's based on the belief that holding radical Islamic views puts you on the conveyor belt of terrorism, resulting in the requirement to report non violent radical behaviour. Which, on a personal level would have resulted in me being put through Channel at the age of 12 which would have been unnecessary as I did not grow up into a terrorist.
Again this is false.  It is based on protecting a child who could be harmed by extremism. Far right, far left, Islamist, or animal rights.  Protection of a child from harm is at the core of the strategy. 
Quote
It creates greater risk assessment within society, when you would have to question whether the likes of teachers/lecturers (with minimal training) are that well equipped or should be tasked with it.
teachers are trained to notice signs of extremism. If they have a concern they pass this on to more highly trained teachers who make an assessment, they then pass this on to the highly trained Chanel panel if required.  I find it odd that risk assessment of children being radicalised could ever be seen as a bad thing
Quote

Being wrongly targeted, as the vast majority are can result in feelings of isolation for individuals.

Bearing in mind, it targets pre criminality, you can never quantify its' success.

That's before we discuss the relevance of whether you or I have what the Government ascribes as 'British Values' and what clear path this will lead to, or its divisiveness; if we don't.

I'm not sure you have fully grasped the aims and methods of the prevent strategy.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 04:52:12 pm by less grotesquely offensive? »
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5297 on: March 26, 2017, 04:58:19 pm »
. Utter nonsense.

Not according to the Muslim students I deal with.

Again this is false. 

The conveyor belt of terrorism is at the heart of it.

teachers are trained to notice signs of extremism.

And when looking at some of the stories associated with Prevent and Channel, they're not very good at it.

I'm not sure you have fully grasped the aims and methods of the prevent strategy.

No worries, it's not the first time I've read your posts and thought you deluded.
Where's this Yakimoto fella?

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5298 on: March 26, 2017, 05:30:12 pm »
Not according to the Muslim students I deal with.

The conveyor belt of terrorism is at the heart of it.

And when looking at some of the stories associated with Prevent and Channel, they're not very good at it.

No worries, it's not the first time I've read your posts and thought you deluded.
Open discussion and preventing ideas that counter to extremism are at the heart of the prevent agenda.  If it isn't happening, someone is doing something very wrong.

Chanel panel may not be working in all cases, but atleast it's a start.

Thank you for feeling the need to finish your argument with a personal insult.

You the man, I must say it really did make me agree with you.  Had you not felt the need to insult me I certainly wouldn't have reasessed my views.

Im with you big man.





“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5299 on: March 26, 2017, 05:41:06 pm »
Thank you for feeling the need to finish your argument with a personal insult

It's not really an insult though is it? It's not like I called you a wanker.

And to be fair I see it as no greater insult than when someone describes my lived experience as 'utter nonsense'.
Where's this Yakimoto fella?

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5300 on: March 26, 2017, 05:46:43 pm »
It's not really an insult though is it? It's not like I called you a wanker.

And to be fair I see it as no greater insult than when someone describes my lived experience as 'utter nonsense'.
You the man
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5301 on: March 28, 2017, 07:45:05 am »
Harsh

“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline classycarra

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5302 on: March 28, 2017, 11:43:07 am »
And one of the most reiterated 'successes' of Corbyn's leadership, 'biggest left party in Europe', looks to be at risk

Lucy Fisher‏Verified account
@LOS_Fisher
EXCL: Labour membership falls by 10,500 people in just 4 weeks, following 26,000 net departures July-Feb.

The Times article is paywalled, but enough of the detail is available in the free preview:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trickle-becomes-flood-as-another-1-000-members-quit-labour-tnjflfkp9

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5303 on: March 28, 2017, 07:09:41 pm »
I think the drop in numbers is a bit of a red herring myself..

I don't see a trend yet or a cause
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5304 on: March 28, 2017, 09:55:19 pm »
I don't see a trend yet or a cause
Ditching agreed Labour positions to chase the UKIP vote?

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5305 on: March 28, 2017, 10:00:30 pm »
Ditching agreed Labour positions to chase the UKIP vote?
Hey, that might be right....

But it's too early to jump to that conclusion...
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5306 on: March 28, 2017, 10:41:50 pm »
I think the drop in numbers is a bit of a red herring myself..

I don't see a trend yet or a cause

'The primary reason members gave for quitting was the party’s “general direction and approach to Brexit”, according to Labour’s weekly membership key performance indicators report...'
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5307 on: March 28, 2017, 10:45:15 pm »
Lib Dems now 4/1 to win Manchester Gorton. Were at 20/1 a few weeks ago.

Still a long shot, but getting closer. 5 weeks till election day (by-election, councils, mayoralties).

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5308 on: March 29, 2017, 07:54:33 am »
I thought this article interviewing Alastair Campbell was terrifically interesting...
It's the difference between power and protest...

I want power to be able to do something with it...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/alastair-campbell-it-is-the-myth-not-the-reality-of-tony-blair-that-fed-both-corbynism-and-brexit-a7653456.html


Quote
Alastair Campbell came to the last session of this year’s “Blair Years” class that Jon Davis and I teach at King's College, London, yesterday. With all five volumes of his Diaries prominently displayed on the top table, he spoke about the importance of studying history to counter the mythologies of the recent past.

“Mythologies develop. They can have a grain of truth in them. A lot of mythologies have developed around New Labour and Tony Blair that are quite hard to dislodge, and a lot of that is because, and I hate to sound like Donald Drumpf, but we have amongst the most dishonest media in the world – not the broadcasters, but the broadcasters get intimidated by the most dishonest press in the world.

“I do defend what we did. I won’t concede that spin is our creation. I certainly won’t concede that we lied about Iraq, before any of you go there. I won’t concede that we had any option but to place ourselves in the centre of British politics – centre left, but centre – because in Britain only one Labour leader has won an election in the last 40 years.

“Abraham Lincoln is like a god, Churchill is like a god, Mandela is right up there, and then everyone else is all a little bit more mixed. Tony, when he left office, was the first prime minister to leave office to a standing ovation of the entire parliament, quite a rare thing, and his reputation has gone south since, but that doesn’t mean it cannot go back up again. In the end it’s not about reputation, it’s about what you do and what you achieve, but the reason this stuff is important is because at the moment the Labour Party has got itself into a position where Jeremy Corbyn feels he has to criticise New Labour to give himself definition.

“Now the Tories can’t do that with Thatcher. You saw this with Cameron, the Tories have to bow down before the Thatcher thing.

“That’s why history is so important and the Tories are much, much better at using it than we are. It is hugely to their benefit that Churchill is seen as the greatest prime minister ever. It is hugely to their benefit that whenever communism is talked about, Reagan and Thatcher are always locked together in the same sentence. And I used to have terrible arguments with Ed Miliband about this, because I went in to try to help him in the last election, but he didn’t want to defend Labour’s record because he wanted to be seen as his own man.

“This is why this history stuff is so important. I’m partly in the past, partly trying to shape the future. It’s not just a vanity thing to go round saying we were the most successful period ever in the history of the Labour Party in terms of winning elections. It’s about shaping politics now.”

Did he think, several of the students asked in different ways, that New Labour inadvertently shaped the politics of today’s Labour Party?

“There has to be something that we didn’t do right. I have said: Tony begat Gordon, begat Ed, begat Jeremy. There’s no doubt there’s a sort of continuum there. Gordon was pretty well qualified to be prime minister but he did try to move away from what Tony stood for on the public service reform stuff. Ed moved further and now Jeremy’s gone to a completely different place. But I still don’t quite know what we could have done differently, and it’s very hard to do it when you are full-on [in government].” One of Blair’s failures, however, was that “we didn’t develop talent”.

He was asked about the effect of Labour losing the 1992 election:

“I was expecting it in a way, just as I was in 2015. The public reached a view that Ed Miliband was never never going to be prime minister. I think it was the same with Neil [Kinnock]. But it [1992] had a visceral effect. We were utterly obsessed with winning. That is why I get so angry with Corbyn and the Labour Party now. What do they do all day?

“Discipline is important but you have to get the collection of personalities right. Tony: comfortable in his own skin, knows what he wants to achieve. Gordon: restless, waking up in the middle of the night with mad ideas, bangs them out on a typewriter, a lot of energy. Peter: thinking all the time, dreaming about politics, trying to shape things. And me as a workaholic words person. But all of us had this feeling that anything you could do to win, and anything you could to do to stop the others, you had to do it.

“Philip Gould and I used to have a weekly meeting –  just me and him, sometimes we would bring in other people – with just one item on the agenda: if we were them, the Tories, knowing about us, what we know, what would we do with it? It was a way of analysing our team with the perspective of being an opponent. It’s amazing what happens if you think like that. Because people defend themselves all the time and they end up believing it.”

He contrasted New Labour’s approach with Corbyn’s. “Corbyn has got 28 staff and four vacancies. What do they do? I had an office a sixth the size of this with three people in it.

“They think they are getting attacked. I don’t think there was a coup. I think Hilary Benn just decided I can’t do this any more. This is ridiculous. It triggered this domino. I don’t think it was planned. I keep reading that there was this Blairite plot. I think if there was a Blairite plot I would have known about it. Then he wins again, but for the public you cannot have this situation. 

“Like in 2010, deep down we didn’t think Gordon would win. Same with Ed. Now, nobody thinks we can win. Including him. And I’m not even convinced he wants to win. I don’t know if he’s enjoying it. I would be very surprised if he is. 

“I’ve known Corbyn for all my adult life, I’ve always thought he’s the sort of diligent, rebellious, difficult backbench MP that every party needs, but he’s not a leader. Round and round we go. [Labour MPs] are saying we’ve just got to lose the election and then rebuild. But I think in today’s world it is possible that we could lose the election and then get wiped out. Look at Scotland.”

He was asked if Blair should have tried to be nicer to the Labour Party:

“Tony always had a very clear view and if you look at the Labour Party today he’s not wrong: if you allow the Labour Party to indulge itself, it doesn’t win.

“I think Tony’s unpopularity at the moment – Tony is basically a very nice bloke. A less nice bloke would have moved heaven and earth to stop Gordon. I went back to help Gordon, Peter went back to help Gordon, Tony helped Gordon. Once Gordon became Prime Minister, Tony vacated the field, partly to let Gordon get on with it. The consequence of that, I’m afraid, is that Tony has become defined by Iraq, making money, about which you only ever hear one side, you don’t hear what he does with it, like employ 200 people, like having operations in 23 different countries, doing pro bono, and then if you’re getting defined negatively constantly by the Mail and the Telegraph – you’d think Tony was still Prime Minister some days the  way they go on about it – and of course he doesn’t have the infrastructure to fight back, nor does he have the inclination.”

He was asked about Labour supporters who felt that Blair had sold the party’s soul. “I don't accept that,” he said. But people feel that Blair sold Labour’s soul, persisted one of the students.

“This is my problem with populism. Populism isn’t about the reality, it’s about how people feel and you have to challenge those feelings.”

Then he went from defending the New Labour record to trying to shape the politics of the future: his current campaign against Brexit, which he called, referring to Blair's recent speech, Operation Rise Up. “Brexit can be stopped,” he said. He was asked what he would have advised Corbyn and Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit Secretary, to do.

“The referendum result has to be respected. What that could and should have meant: If I had been advising Labour I would have said its position should have been as follows. The Tories have the numbers. So it’s going to happen. Article 50 is the process that follows legitimately from the referendum. Our system is that you have a government and an opposition. And our position is that, as it’s happening, we are going to hold them to account every step of the way. That means it doesn’t matter whether we vote for or against, so we’ll vote against, just to remind them this was a close call. You might have had a few rebels on that – not many. Instead of which, we had MPs on all sides standing up and making speeches and saying this is a terrible course therefore I’m going to vote for it. Which just feeds people's cynicism.”

He mentioned Pat McFadden, a Labour MP for a strong Leave constituency: “That’s tough politics. But I believe, he believes, that if you had a leader and a campaign that was strong you could turn this around.

img-1010.jpg
Alastair Campbell with the Blair Years class (and The New European and the fifth volume of his Diaries)

“There is a real feeling out there.” As well as arguing with Nigel Frottage on breakfast TV that morning, Campbell had spoken at an anti-Brexit rally on Saturday afternoon, which attracted 80,000 people. “That’s not nothing. My rule on marches is for every person who turns up, 10 thought about it. That’s how I knew there was such opposition to the Iraq war. There were a million people on the march, that means 10m thought about it.”

We were grateful to Campbell for taking time out from bashing Frottage in the morning and urging people to rip up the Daily Mail in the evening to come to our class, and didn’t mind that he used the class photo at the end (above) to promote his Diaries and The New European, the anti-Brexit newspaper for which he is Editor-at-Large.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Libertine

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5309 on: March 29, 2017, 11:10:16 am »
I know this is hardly new after almost 1.5 years of Corbyn, but it's still shocking.


UK, YouGov poll:
Labour (S&D) voters / Better Prime Minister
May (CON-ECR): 29%
Corbyn (LAB-S&D): 27%

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5310 on: March 29, 2017, 11:38:40 am »

Offline youll never walk alone it

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5311 on: March 29, 2017, 11:50:13 am »
I know this is hardly new after almost 1.5 years of Corbyn, but it's still shocking.


UK, YouGov poll:
Labour (S&D) voters / Better Prime Minister
May (CON-ECR): 29%
Corbyn (LAB-S&D): 27%
  yougov was founded by a tax dodging tory mp Nadim zahawi, the profits they make are astounding i wonder why? 
Im drunk  but i havent had  a drink!  bob paisley after rome 77                The times i had here wernt all great, we only  finished 2nd one  season....the great  bob paisley

when shanks was asked  how he relaxed,  he said  he looks at the league table and checks where everton are...

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5312 on: March 29, 2017, 12:10:04 pm »
Arthur Scargill on Brexit and Corbyn.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-means-can-reopen-mines-12809927
Can't believe he's using Gandhi as an example.
Quote
“We could practise the concept put forward by Gandhi in India when he said we want homespun industries.”

“We need to re-open the cotton mills
, re-open the steel plants and invest in new mining facilities with carbon capture – creating jobs and protecting the environment.”
Where are our cotton fields Arthur?

Offline classycarra

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5313 on: March 29, 2017, 12:32:56 pm »
  yougov was founded by a tax dodging tory mp Nadim zahawi, the profits they make are astounding i wonder why? 


Maybe because they're really good at performing and communicating surveys.

What's the answer?

Offline SP

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5314 on: March 29, 2017, 12:45:24 pm »
  yougov was founded by a tax dodging tory mp Nadim zahawi, the profits they make are astounding i wonder why? 

Were all of the polling organisations founded by tax-dodging ex-Tory MPs, because Corbyn's polling is universally poor?

Polling companies do not overtly skew the results. Their entire business is dependent on reasonable accuracy, it would be commercial suicide to screw that. The closest they sail is probably bias in terms of wording of questions - but that is probably dictated by their client. There is probably little merit in obsessing over the polls though. They are terrible. And highlighting the latest record low is frankly depressing. The polls are unprecedented and abysmal, but peoples' minds are set. Those that are going to take any notice of the polls have, those that wish to explain them away will. The numbers are bad enough that I cannot see many more changing their minds purely on the polling.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5315 on: March 29, 2017, 04:23:43 pm »
From Jeremy:
Quote
Dear [zero zero],
I campaigned alongside many of you to remain in the EU, and the triggering of Article 50 is not the outcome Labour fought for last summer. But together, we can challenge Tory plans at every stage of this process.
Stop reading there.

Fuck off you absolute charlatan and stop emailing me this bullshit which is an insult to my intelligence.

"...we can challenge Tory plans at every stage of this process". Yeah.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5316 on: March 29, 2017, 04:35:48 pm »
He talked about not giving the Tories a "free hand" as well in his speech in the Commons.

Offline classycarra

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5317 on: March 29, 2017, 04:41:09 pm »
His addiction to equivocation is hilarious!

"I campaigned alongside many of you to remain in the EU, and the triggering of Article 50 is not the outcome Labour fought for  last summer."

He is phrasing this to limit the subject of that part of the sentence to Labour, to avoid any lying about his personal desires.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5318 on: March 29, 2017, 10:31:00 pm »
Referring to the six counties in his interview today rather than Northern Ireland.

Can't help himself can he.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5319 on: March 29, 2017, 11:23:46 pm »
Arthur Scargill on Brexit and Corbyn.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-means-can-reopen-mines-12809927

Does he actually understand what homespun was? It wasn't about massive cotton mills - it was about spinning and weaving at home instead of buying the British textiles mass-produced in the mills he wants re-opened.
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09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.