Author Topic: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp  (Read 8998 times)

Offline SteveZissou

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Editorial with first hand experience of covering German football's reinvention from a decade ago to today
The effect of social media and forums on the modern fans love affair with Klopp
How times have changed from being linked with Klinsmann to Klopp signing

How will we judge Jurgen Klopp within the Liverpool hysteria?
http://www.goal.com/en-za/news/4639/premier-league/2015/10/09/16156762/editorial-how-will-we-judge-jurgen-klopp-within-the
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #1 on: October 9, 2015, 04:50:27 pm »
To Jurgen's credit he's kept it very real, talking about focusing on the football, contrary to what the media were looking for, sensational drama, yet they did jump on the 'the normal one' cue.

Klopp stressed this point 3 times about his focus on football and not all the frenzy around him from the media (unlike Mourinho).

Pasted the full piece for you here (different images used in the article):

Editorial: How will we judge Jurgen Klopp within the Liverpool hysteria?

Encounters with the so-called reinvention of German football, how it applies to the new Liverpool way, being mindful of entertainment vs real management

GOAL EDITORIAL     By Ignat Manjoo       Follow on Twitter

What’s that? A distant, blonde, humanoid figure approaching me through the dark. Jurgen Klopp? No, it’s my wife. She says, that at this rate I’m never going to get some rest in time for the Bafana Bafana game against Costa Rica at 4am on Friday.

Reds fans have been spotting Klopp (or his spectre) around Liverpool even two days before he arrived in the city. What will they see when he really arrives? In flesh. When you’re in love, you imagine your beloved in every face walking by. Liverpool fans are in love without even meeting their new manager Klopp yet. Typical of the Internet age we live in.

The supporters worldwide that didn’t want to go outside (or to work) until the Klopp confirmation was official, repeatedly clicked the refresh button on Twitter and forums, spotting Klopp in random videos of any average man with a beard and cap. There’s a Klopp father lookalike in the backyard playing basketball on a swing. There’s reflections of Klopp photographed off moving cars, between the haze and the sunlight, we catch a beard through the glass. Is it a bird? I only haven’t found fans spotting Klopp in the formation of clouds on their airplane window. Yet, Reds followers were truly following Klopp’s plane from Germany to England, capturing the flight radar, cheering on through the moving landscapes and safe landing, as if we were receiving transmission from Apollo 13. What’s going to happen when it really does happen, when Klopp walks into a packed Anfield singing You’ll Never Walk Alone?

Hysteria. Why did that word pop in my mind first? Where did I hear it recently? Brendan Rodgers. He was right. There is a hysteria in Liverpool. Rodgers said two weeks ago… as if it was in another lifetime.

“Of course there's a lot of hysteria and I think that continues. I'm pretty confident that there's obviously a group of people who don't want me here as the manager,” said Rodgers after he beat struggling Aston Villa two weeks ago.

Yes, there was never a conspiracy. The fans simply preferred Klopp. They begged co-owner John Henry, even tweeting pictures of Klopp to Henry’s wife, such was the desperation. With Liverpool, you can count on a fairy tale ending, and the Internet meltdown was actually comparable to that night in Istanbul, without even kicking a ball. Henry played the red fairy, “Your wish is my command.” One might say it’s blasphemous to compare this to Istanbul 2005, but to Klopp’s advantage, the social media coverage has just taken hysteria to a new level.



Liverpool fans stalk Klopp from Germany to England on RAWK

Where did this fairy tale begin? For me it began in 2006 when I first saw Klopp up close and personal, and I do mean for real. I was in Germany for the World Cup, where a young Klopp worked as a journalist. He was easily approachable at the Sony Center in Berlin. You might be wondering what he was doing in that gig. Well, it was even a risk for ZDF TV to hire him as a presenter in the open air studio because Klopp was relatively unknown to the football world then. To me, when Klopp was presenting his football analysis, he was just that guy talking next to Franz Beckenbauer and introducing us to the real big names, such as Pele. Klopp was just the quiet, almost shy analyst, busy with his new invention of the time (Yes, he got German engineers to create it for him), drawing arrows on the screen to illustrate tactics.

At the time in Germany he wasn’t a nobody, he was the young coach of struggling Bundesliga club Mainz. In keeping with the role of the big screen in football manager's fame, it was his biggest opportunity in front of the camera during the World Cup, which raised his profile for the likes of Dortmund, impressing the German public with his in-game pointers. The rest is history. Now, he is about to bask in front of the cameras at Liverpool, and the English media wouldn’t have seen anything like this, not since Jose Mourinho first walked in London.

The Portuguese is now the most famous coach in the world, not just because he won the Uefa Champions League with Porto or Inter Milan… others have done it twice too. See, it’s due to his entertainment value in the media. He (and his puppet parody) was just so funny, and effective too, as a puppet master speaker, drawing all the journalists’ negativity toward himself, releasing the pressure from his players, like a God absorbing the sins of his fellow players.

That’s why even rival players, the likes of Steven Gerrard dreamed of having Mourinho as a coach. Not because Mourinho was jealous of how Rafa Benitez masterminded his defeat on the pitch, but because of the illusionary persona the self-appointed Special One created for himself.  When you hold a power comparable to Mourinho, which the German scribes have foreseen with Klopp for the English Premier League, you will attract class players… and you won’t need to be Rodgers “pissing in the wind” for Toni Kroos, as Gerrard revealed in his book.

Klopp will introduce a new type of humour in Liverpool, boasting witty punch lines and a cultured taste in the arts, but wait… this is not a theatrical review. This is football. Do not judge Klopp as a master of ceremony. Just as Gerrard shouldn’t judge a coach on the warmth of a hug, nor should you the journalist or fan, judge Klopp on how entertaining he is on television. Otherwise Henry should’ve brought in former Mexico coach Miguel Herrera. He’s available too, after punching a journalist, resulted in his axing for Mexico. Tragedy and comedy in one Danny DeVito sized package.
 
This energy you can feel beaming through Herrera, is bubbling out of him and rubbing off his players. It’s infectious. It reaches the spectators and bounces all over the stadium like a Mexican wave of positivity. It’s exactly what the recent morgue at Anfield needs through the living Klopp, to feed off this energy, and awake! To resurrect the mythical European nights where Liverpool were feared by all in Europe, written down in folklore by the likes of Benitez and Bob Paisley before him.

Not the script by Rodgers that failed to turn over Bulgarian, Turkish and Swiss clubs. The Klopp technique is not just entertainment for show. The psychology is real. Benitez never charged down the field to celebrate with his players. He wrote notes during goals. However his meditative Buddha pose rubbed off to calm his players to beat Chelsea in the 2006-7 Champions League semi-final shootout.

You can’t judge a coach sensibly whilst in a state of frenzy, otherwise when the results catch up on you, you won’t know what hit you. A few losses and the followers will fear the magic is lost. Then how should we judge a manager? When they take the wool out of their eyes, the media judges coaches by results only. So, we think. Actually, all coaches lose matches and go through bad spells, and if that said coach, doesn’t have a good relationship with the media, it’s not difficult to spin an unfortunate string of results back into being the manager’s fault. If Klopp’s on good terms with us (as you expect he will be), then writers will be ready to explain how it was the player/s to blame instead. If you break that pact with the media, you can even be on top of the table but criticised for player relationships, favouritism, languages spoken and foreign tactics. He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword, so when you play your game on the television/computer screen, if you stare long enough this is where heroes turn into villains in time.

Not just Mourinho. Look at when the new model of reinventing German football began. Researchers placed it around the year 2008 in club football (the national team was earlier) with Jurgen Klinsmann, dubbing it ‘Concept Coaching (Konzepttrainer)’.  Ironically, Klinsmann was linked with Liverpool around that time when they were owned by American Texas cowboys George Gillett and Tom Hicks. Klinsmann used to visit them in the United States, and you can imagine how he gave H & G an earful on his philosophies. While living in America, Klinsmann learnt the latest techniques from US athletes. When Liverpool fans caught wind of this, it was the beginning of the end for the former owners. How things have changed in the FSG era.

First, Bayern Munich soon bought into Klinsmann’s ideas, but when the going got tough, the faith required to hold onto this new religion was lost. One by one high profile players such as Philipp Lahm turned on him, even stating that Klinsmann made minimal tactical preparation.

How did everything suddenly go pair shaped? Remember, Klinsmann was the darling of Germany just before that, not just as a legendary scorer but as their head coach for 2006. The pundits proved that the real genius behind Germany’s rise was actually his assistant Joachim Low, who took over as head coach, and the rest became history.

What can Klopp learn from history? The Concept Coach requires strong faith for everyone to come on board. When I was in Germany and their journalists were talking to me about the new system they were developing (as if it was in the underground bunkers with high concepts), I was laughing at them (probably just like how Bayern laughed at Klinsmann thereafter). I could laugh because England’s 5-1 thrashing of Germany in their own backyard was still fresh in my mind even though it was a World Cup qualification campaign earlier.

Growing up with the English media in South Africa, in my mind there was no doubt that the English team was far superior to the Germans at the time. All this talk about how the Germans were implementing these strategies in their youth systems, sounded like a dream, or a lie that when you tell enough people, someone will believe it. I also spoke to university students in Berlin who compared Germany’s rise to football power with the nationalism of World War 2, but I easily concluded that these boys just didn’t like to watch football. Which Germans were getting carried away?

Maybe, coming from South Africa I’m used to hearing about pipe-dream development plans. Though, I was living nearby in Austria for two years and also covered the European Cups at U19 and U21 level, where I saw Germany repeatedly losing in the finals to Spain - a precursor for what was in store at senior level in years to come. I watched their youth teams first hand each year and was beginning to suspect there was something to these master plans after all.

 


From being linked with Klinsmann to Klopp: How times have changed and what Jurgen can learn from Jurgen's failure

 

The main point in how they succeeded is that the Germans didn’t care about the impact of short term results in their leagues, as long as they were all following the same blue-print from bottom to top, to benefit the national team. They were all singing from the same hymn sheet and I should’ve never doubted the Germans to mechanically pull that off.

It took years. They had converted me. Low was previously the coach, where I was based in Vienna at Austria Wien. Somebody had to bring Low to the Premier League. However club football is different and Low never left his national post, even after winning the World Cup last year.

The third coach in the holy trinity of Concept Coaching is Klopp, the only one to prove himself with it in the Bundesliga. So, Klopps a better fit for the Kop after all. By now, you already know how he won the title against the odds with Dortmund, and took them all the way to the Champions League final in 2013. Then critics point out at his final season, but if you want to earn your badges as a coach worth his salt, it’s also about how you cope with crisis. Even the celebrated Carlo Ancelotti struggled at times. The writing was already on the wall for the departing Klopp in Dortmund.

So, how did I judge that? I believe a coach is assessed by his philosophy, his system and how he implements that in time over various challenges such as injuries, new signings, generational changes and various other factors, that we the media and fans, all need to understand to allow them time for. It’s not just about winning trebles and Champions Leagues, but also how you deal with a rotten patch, whether you can find that solution for your team to turn the corner, or not. You can’t win the league every season, but you have to find that solution and show provable signs that you are back on the onward curve.

Contrast that with Rodger’s philosophy in his 180-page dossier, which was rewritten every few months, sometimes rewritten during games. In the end it was not even that Rodgers didn’t know how to implement his ideas, but he didn’t know what his system was nor which players he wanted to achieve anything.

The Liverpool board, and you the reader, already know what Klopp stands for and how he fits into FSG’s model. He’s not going to swing toward Pep Guardiola’s style one month and Mourinho’s the next… Klopp has his own identity that differentiates him from other Concept Coaches, Klinsmann and Low. The high-pressing, counter-attacking, heavy-metal football wasn’t Rodgers ideal initially. It doesn’t belong to any one coach, but Klopp has made it work to win trophies. Not just to lose them. Rodgers pointed out that he’s the same coach that nearly won the league. It’s the other way around. Rodgers is the same coach that lost the league title. Watch the Crystal Palace fiasco and the silly goals conceded all season.

Rodgers says he needed the tools (players) to make it happen, but he didn’t have his own tools (tactical knowledge or experience) to implement the tools of this philosophy. FSG wanted Klopp from day one to reinvent Liverpool and football in England, while Rodgers talked Klopp’s talk about new concepts. Now, Liverpool finally got the man who knows how to make it happen. It’s over to the players now, because we the media can first blame Rodgers or the Liverpool transfer committee’s signings, until it’s time to turn on Klopp one day.

Next time, I will tell you how Klopp can turn Liverpool around. I can write a 180-page dossier too, but I can’t do it for real.
« Last Edit: October 9, 2015, 04:53:37 pm by SteveZissou »
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Offline harleydanger

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2015, 04:10:41 am »
He'd just stapled 40 VIZ mags together and FSG didn't call his bluff
WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE!

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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2015, 08:57:26 am »
Meh! Leave the previous gaffer in peace.

Forward, look forward, that is where the future lies.

JK has hit the reset button - RESET


 :wave to fellow saffer


Agree with this  :wave. Let's look more forward. I've always liked reading ancient manuscripts though.

For Klopp, the most important bit that came out of the media interviews so far, is that he's waving away the type of questions that Mourinho feeds off, and he just wants to concentrate on the football. That's the way.

Also, looking at his comments on how he chose Dortmund and Liverpool, I genuinely believe he feels as disgusted as most of us do with the Chelsea and Man City model for success. The modern fan doesn't understand why he chose us, but it's obvious because Klopp is looking at true values.
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Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2015, 09:02:16 am »
The Unbearable Lightness of Klopp: What Liverpool’s New Manager Could Mean for the Premier League




You know what the problem is? The problem is that Liverpool has no idea whether Liverpool is supposed to be fun. Jürgen Klopp, the club’s freshly unveiled new manager, is fun. Gegenpressing, the tiki-taka-on-MDMA playing style on whose groovy back he took Dortmund to consecutive Bundesliga championships in 2011 and 2012, is fun. The touchline repertoire of leaps, aerial punches, spins, and roundhouse kicks with which he air-guitars his teams to victory and rages against defeat is fun. His hipster glasses are fun. His nonchalance toward media scrutiny of his hair transplant — “I think the results are really cool, don’t you?” — is just totally super fun. But whether Klopp–grade fun can thrive at Liverpool, a club whose atmosphere has historically veered more toward tragic splendor than anything as trivial as pleasure — that’s the question.

The glory years of Liverpool were not fun years, in the main. Your Shankly–Paisley Reds were many wonderful things — a working-class grand opera, a footballing juggernaut, a kind of heavy-thighed insurgency against Thatcherism — but they were seldom really enjoyable; the stakes were always too high. You enjoyed a Liverpool match the way the French exiles in Casablanca enjoy “La Marseillaise” — sincerely, but for the movement more than the music. After the Hillsborough disaster, the club’s iconography became (understandably) even more serious. Liverpool became the secular-religious club of eternal flames and memorial verses and walking through the storm with your head held high, which is an identity you can only cultivate if you anticipate a steady supply of storms to walk through.

Even through the Rafa Benitez era, Liverpool’s notable successes tended to be Miracle-of-Istanbul-style apotheosis comebacks against impossible odds, occasions for St. Crispin’s Day halftime talks and the noble tears of Steven Gerrard. It was dramatic. It was intense. As a form of fan engagement, it was borderline ecstatic. But fun? The fans thanked Benitez by silkscreening his face onto enormous Che-inspired agitprop banners; that was the tone in which the Kop liked to operate.

The thing about going through life as a fiery emblem of struggle, though, is that you can only get away with it if you’re great or truly terrible. You have to suffer or you have to rise above suffering. Finish sixth in the Premier League enough times and your pose of heroic folk-agony starts to wear a bit thin. Under the clown-crony regime of Tom Hicks and George Gillett, who owned the club from 2007 to 2010, Liverpool was oppressed enough from its own boardroom that its identity continued to make a deranged kind of sense. (The jackboots were coming from inside the house!) For the past half-decade, though, under the consortium of American technocrats led by Red Sox owner John W. Henry and his very sensible eyeglasses, Liverpool’s personality has been a little adrift. The Reds were consistently pretty good but seldom spectacular.1 LeBron bought a stake in the club. Gerrard, whose emotional thermostat is set pretty steadily on savior, was increasingly deemphasized in favor of glitzier stars like Luis Suárez and Philippe Coutinho. For the first time, you could almost imagine that an iPhone had connected to a Wi-Fi network within 10 miles of Anfield.

All of this seemed to attest to a certain lightening of the mood. And when Liverpool, playing fluid, attacking soccer, went on a 16-game unbeaten run two seasons ago and finished within two points of the title, the Kop seemed … happy? Was that the right word? The worst facet of Liverpool is the one that wants to be treated as a martyr even as it beats you; there’s been less of that since the slide out of the old Big Four, more of a sense of appreciating the good times as they happen. Still, the latter days of the Brendan Rodgers managership got pretty god-awfully grim. And OK, Rodgers was not the greatest wheeler-dealer in the history of the transfer market. And yes, dropping 400 trillion pounds sterling on Divock Origi was probably an iffy move, football-wise. But the darkness on Merseyside lately has felt almost Old Liverpudlian in its mix of defiance, resignation, and scorn. There’s probably a German word for this; it’s one Jürgen Klopp would be too cheerful ever to say.



What I’m getting at here is that it’s hard to say at the moment whether Liverpool is extremely ready for Klopp or completely unprepared for him. It’s an open question, I guess, to what extent culture affects outcomes in soccer. There are smart people who’d argue that the game is only about tactical math and that the fit between a manager’s personality and an organization’s tone is irrelevant; tell me how Klopp is going to space his attacking midfielders, and I’ll read you your fortune. I’m not sure I buy that, though, if only because winning clubs so often suggest an integrated sense of priorities. From the top down, Wenger’s Arsenal means something. Guardiola’s Barcelona meant something. Ferguson’s Manchester United meant something. Even Mourinho’s Chelsea meant something, at least right up until the point when it went shrieking off the cliff of reason.

These clubs didn’t and don’t mean the same thing. But then, they never had to. What matters is just for the players, the staff, and the fans to share a common vision of an enterprise — what a match is supposed to look like, what a season is supposed to look like, what we’re all in this thing for. A story like that can be a powerful tool. It can make fans and owners patient with bad results. It can give players a heightened understanding of their roles. It can create the context in which decisions are made, both in the moment (I will go for this tackle, because we are a physical team) and in the long term (I will never buy a defensive midfielder, because to do so would violate the increasingly melancholic but nonetheless fierce sense of my moral purpose that I hone to a keen point each December while wearing this puffy jacket).

More than any other recent Liverpool manager, including Benitez, Klopp comes ready-made with this kind of vision. Klopp is the manager who looked at what Pep Guardiola was doing in Spain and went, “Fine, but let’s make it radder.” The gegenpressing ideal — basically tiki-taka, but replace the slo-mo sideways passes designed to maximize space with all-out frontal assault the second you lose the ball — is a wild-eyed Cheshire Cat grin of a soccer philosophy that happens to be nearly unstoppable if you feed it the right players. Feed it the wrong players, or, say, take out Robert Lewandowski, and it turns out to be pretty stoppable. It’s an approach, in other words, that requires an integrated commitment from an entire organization. Harry Redknapp will tell you to go out there and fucking run around; Klopp needs you to invest. That he inspires that kind of investment is both his most important skill and his particular brand of crazy. Lines on a whiteboard isn’t all that makes him successful. It’s also his skill at translating those lines into components of the weirdly jubilant, charismatic, slightly off-kilter world he conjures around himself.

Which is fine if you’re managing Dortmund. But what if you’re managing a club with its own deep-seated vision of the universe, one that’s diametrically opposed to yours? What if you’re Andrew W.K., and you just swiped right on Blanche Dubois? It’s either going to work like magic or it’s going to work like a derailed streetcar beaching itself on a kegger. Maybe Klopp’s manic energy will merge with Liverpool’s sense of high purpose and produce great things, or maybe Klopp’s goofy raving will aggravate Liverpool’s insular suspicion and produce a wreck. I want to believe, but it’s hard to see where the wins are going to come from before the next transfer window. (Seriously, tell me how he’s going to space his attacking midfielders.) And the club has spent a lot of money lately. We’re talking Real Madrid money; Manchester City money. What sort of war chest will Klopp have (sorry, will the Liverpool transfer committee have) to repair the damage done to the squad by Rodgers (sorry, by the Liverpool transfer committee)?

It’s easy to imagine this going wrong from the start. No one is bigger than Liverpool, but Klopp isn’t used to being smaller than the clubs he runs. The dude literally walks alone! I don’t know, though. I can’t help it; I’m excited. Jürgen Klopp and Jose Mourinho are going to stand on the same touchline. Jürgen Klopp is going to talk to the British press. In joy or anger, Jürgen Klopp is going to stand in front of the Kop and shake his fists. The sunniest manager in world soccer is about to run the most gothically opulent club. Whatever happens, it will be something to see.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/jurgen-klopp-liverpool/
"Jürgen Klopp is bringing Liverpool's 'fuck you' back. And I can't wait."

Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2015, 09:23:16 am »
Good piece.

I think the owners need to forget that 'relentless attacking football' concept, we also shouldn't expect 'fun' and entertainment. Results come first. We haven't won the league too long to demand entertainment first. That's Spurs model.

Interesting thought on Benitez. Yes, the dramatic glories of the FA Cup, Istanbul, spanking Man Utd 4-1 at Old Trafford, Real Madrid 4-0, all those goals that season with Torres co. - wasn't at all boring for me. I think understanding Rafa also required a degree of intelligence, which perhaps (and I'm mostly joking) a Chelsea fan would find it hard to appreciate.

Carragher differentiates between Benitez, Houllier and Klopp in his latest column
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2015, 09:50:18 am »
The Unbearable Lightness of Klopp: What Liverpool’s New Manager Could Mean for the Premier League


........

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/jurgen-klopp-liverpool/
Good read that. Not sure about this idea of us being averse to a bit fun though. We had a lot of fun in 2014 when we went on a mad one. But there was nothing fun about losing to Chelsea or that soul crushing night at Palace. He says the stakes were always too high for it to be fun in our glory years, but the stakes are always high, maybe even higher now as we've gone so long without a league title. Look at the difference between what winning the league in 2014 would have meant and what losing it ultimately resulted in. The margins are fine and the stakes are as high as ever.

Klopp doesn't sound like someone who wants to lug around 25 years of disappointment on his shoulders or have it lumped on his players, and rightly so. If 2014 showed anything, it was that we're well up for some fun and it won't take much to set us off.

Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2015, 11:08:26 am »
Good read that. Not sure about this idea of us being averse to a bit fun though. We had a lot of fun in 2014 when we went on a mad one. But there was nothing fun about losing to Chelsea or that soul crushing night at Palace. He says the stakes were always too high for it to be fun in our glory years, but the stakes are always high, maybe even higher now as we've gone so long without a league title. Look at the difference between what winning the league in 2014 would have meant and what losing it ultimately resulted in. The margins are fine and the stakes are as high as ever.

Klopp doesn't sound like someone who wants to lug around 25 years of disappointment on his shoulders or have it lumped on his players, and rightly so. If 2014 showed anything, it was that we're well up for some fun and it won't take much to set us off.

Yes, if success can come WITH FUN then all the better. I'd take success without fun too :)

Anyway, yes, in the past many fans felt it's corny to talk about the title, but any serious club should aim for the highest mark. Yes, City, Chelsea and Utd are spending obscene amounts but the top clubs in the EPL are very weak in a European context. You spend 50mil on a Di Maria but then you can spend 8mil on a Coutinho or 20 on someone else that can take Liverpool ahead.

With Klopp this can be a tricky rest of season cos he's going to learn about the league and the players. He obviously needs to bring in some higher quality first and take time to play the way he wants. We can't really treat a tricky run of Spurs, Saints, Chelsea, Palace and Man City like pre-season Klopp fine-tuning. It's a pity he doesn't have a pre-season. The timing is a bit of a gamble to see if he can somehow get some momentum going to push us into top 4.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 11:10:59 am by SteveZissou »
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Offline kaz1983

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2015, 11:44:49 am »
Agree with this  :wave. Let's look more forward. I've always liked reading ancient manuscripts though.

I actually agree but it would be nice for a few other threads to follow suit.  :wave

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2015, 01:53:32 pm »
You never want to dampen a good feeling or people being positive, and I'm sure most of us are aware that we're only at the start of something, we're  at kick-off. In fact the only 'new' information of significance that's come out the past few days is Rodgers / his side briefing lots in the press on the workings of our recruitment, which while biased, is worth noting. The club has to make sure that now that we have a proven manager, we give him the environment to do his best work.

Offline gkmacca

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2015, 04:31:14 pm »
Good read that. Not sure about this idea of us being averse to a bit fun though.

That bit was stupid. Shanks' teams might have been very disciplined, and Paisley's teams were ruthlessly good at killing a game they were winning with about half an hour to go, but both teams on their day were capable of being wonderful to watch. And then Kenny introduced Barnes and Beardo. Thrilling performances. So that article is just rewriting history on that point.

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2015, 04:35:15 pm »
If you want to look at success without fun just cast your gaze upon the average Mourhino side.
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Offline Rush 82

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2015, 06:07:00 am »
Heh,  the unbearable lightness of klopp

Seriously!

No offense to those of you who agree (and I'll concede that it's well written) but what a load of over intelluctualised wank!

JK is fun,  sure,  but he is also  tempered bloody steel at the core - the way he told that cameraman to shut it in the presser was a small but telling illustration of this. LFC will resonate with that - Play hard,  have fun - that's an ethos that LFC can buy into.

The euphoria sweeping the fans is an indication of how ready we are to emerge from the depressing shadow of someone who clearly (and this is not meant to be disrespectful to him} did not have experience to pull us out of the hole that we found ourselves in after a sparkling season of fun.



I'm off to catch a couple of waves ;D



Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2015, 10:01:59 am »
That bit was stupid. Shanks' teams might have been very disciplined, and Paisley's teams were ruthlessly good at killing a game they were winning with about half an hour to go, but both teams on their day were capable of being wonderful to watch. And then Kenny introduced Barnes and Beardo. Thrilling performances. So that article is just rewriting history on that point.

Agree with this. I watched us from the mid-80's. Every game was fun under Dalglish for me, even the games we lost were fun for the neutral. Never boring even for a kid.
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2015, 10:04:31 am »
If you want to look at success without fun just cast your gaze upon the average Mourhino side.

Yeah, I believe that all Mourinho's act in press conferences is to cover up for how turgid his style is on the pitch. It's the same for his action on the touchline. The excitement of Jose is probably a spin on reality.

The big difference with Klopp is that he's not just talking fun and excitement, he wants to play that way.
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2015, 10:10:18 am »
The latest interview of Klopp saying he's not Jesus walking on water and creating miracles is both the type of magic quotes the media's looking for from Klopp, but also another realistic reminder that Jurgen's been banging on. He's totally right, while a good new coach can always get the rub of the green and use the psychological change with a great start, we've got a tough schedule of fixtures ahead. Some people are talking of the title. I think we should ignore the results until February. Give him three months to train his methods into the team and maybe a chance to bring in one player to fill in for a weakness in the team in January.
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Offline Bunter

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2015, 10:25:24 am »
Can we please fuck this "Normal One" shite off as soon as possible? Embarrassing media led bollocks.

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2015, 11:31:24 am »
Can we please fuck this "Normal One" shite off as soon as possible? Embarrassing media led bollocks.

Yeah, hope that doesn't stick... cos its the opposite of what Klopp intended
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Offline fromshanklyon

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2015, 01:56:21 pm »
Some good pieces here, over intellectualised or not. Interesting to read some pieces published in Bild, badly translated admittedly by Amazon, that treat Klopp as a human being, a person, rather than just a football manager. They talk of where he lived in Germany and how that gave him freedom to think, his family, etc,etc. All the stuff that is actually quite important to all of us as individuals and whether we like it or not affect how we feel about a new job. I get the impression from what he has said so far he wants to connect with his new place at every level not just on his impact on the pitch. He seems a clever guy, and the mischievous side of his nature led to the ' normal one' crack with its built in dig at old Jose but underlying  that is the greater truth that he doesn't want to be seen as 'other', just one of those rich guys down at Melwood. Our English habit of putting so called celebrities on a plinth and then knocking them off probably leaves him a little concerned hence the Jesus walking on water comment. I appreciate he has to adjust to our culture but I think he would appreciate it a bit if we could be as good as our anthem and not leave him walking alone not as an act of heroic martyrdom ( as it is sometimes symbolised ) but just out of friendship.

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2015, 02:12:31 pm »
I saw an opinion piece in today's Guardian that was already trying to define what supporters should consider the failure bar for Klopp.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2015, 02:20:08 pm »
Can we please fuck this "Normal One" shite off as soon as possible? Embarrassing media led bollocks.
Although it's not just the media is it...............



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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2015, 11:22:30 am »
Yeah, Klopp was talking about that shirt to the German media, in terms of how they get carried away in England with his slip of tongue...

To FromShankelyon: "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

No need to worry. FSG just need to give him the same amount of time and patience they gave Rodgers. We finished 7th in our first season with Brendan and still kept faith.

Rafa took a season to learn the EPL. In his second season we were tuned in and after that constantly superior to Arsenal. In our next step we overtook Chelsea, but then the G & H cancer settled in.

It's possible to creep above them again.
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Offline firing squad

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2015, 01:30:58 pm »
Can we please fuck this "Normal One" shite off as soon as possible? Embarrassing media led bollocks.
Tell it to the club.

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Offline Chakan

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2015, 01:33:04 pm »
*cringe

Offline hollger

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2015, 01:40:53 pm »
The stuff the club's selling is awful, no doubt. Presumably it's being done by the commercial people and I expect they're bringing in a fair few quid from it, which at the end of the day is their job - just a shame they can't curb their enthusiasm a bit at times!

I see in Klopp's press conference that he's really not a fan of the press. I think I'd be the same in his position, the constant demand for pictures would be a chore I'd quickly tire of. Hopefully it all dies down soon, I mean the majority of our players (except maybe Stevie?) have been able to go about their lives without constant interruption.

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2015, 02:19:30 pm »
I stopped giving a flying f*ck what the media says about everything a very long time ago, but I could not help noting with horror a sort of hysteria around the arrival of Klopp that I can only compare, on a local rather than global level to the death of Princess Diana. It is somewhat diaphanous, the link, but has something to do with a yearning for something/one to attach to, to project a combination of sentiment and hunger upon. We, like those undirected souls back then want to latch loads of things to him. This latest presser had him doing his duty but I suspected he wanted away as soon as possible. I would love him to be left alone completely. Every fan that sees him whilst out who gives him a gentle nod and then walks on, you are the star for me. That is the best thing we can do for him right now. Let's let his life be the normal thing, not the soundbite or the shirt. Then he can get on with the football thing, with the only background noise being what falls on his ears at the game, from the terraces.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 02:21:17 pm by markedasred »
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Offline lionel_messias

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2015, 03:12:21 pm »
Fuck the cringeworthy bollocks.

This guy loves football. And thank hell, that starts again on Saturday, then we have thursday, then we have Sunday again.

The rest is a monkey tennis side-show.
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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2015, 05:15:26 pm »
You can tell that he isn't really overjoyed with all the scrutiny but I'm sure he expected that. Some of the questions put to him today were a bit samey samey from the journo's but when the odd one about football was mentioned you see him actually smile and he seems more interested. He just wants to talk about the fucking football.

Offline Magz50

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2015, 06:21:27 pm »
I'm getting a little annoyed with the constant paparazzi pissing him off. Clearly he is bothered by the sheer mount of idiots waiting for him every where he goes. Leave him the feck alone so he can get on with the job. He's here now, the media needs to chill the fuck out and realize we will see him at Anfield.

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2015, 06:29:22 pm »
He's joining the least ravenous league media-wise of the top ones in Europe (was Germany less hassle?), he'll be fine. It's just the initial burst of interest.

The flipside of that is the Italian and Spanish journos ask a lot of good football questions, while the day to day covers a lot of the fluff. With the UK press, you barely notice much of the former unfortunately. 

Offline plasterered

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2015, 06:34:11 pm »
Tell it to the club.



If I was in charge I would sack the PR perso who spewd this out. whats wrong with people today stalking the guy all over twitter ? fuck off give him room to breath so he can do his business sad twats

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2015, 06:45:14 pm »
It's not even original.  Perhaps some dick somewhere in our merchandising dept. forgot to check up that Avram Grant said it first in the context of Mourinho's special one comments. Cringeworthy garbage, genuinely interested to see if they've shifted any more than 100 shirts.

Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2015, 08:44:57 pm »
Yes, totally agree with recent comments, and Klopp himself referenced the paparazzi in his press conference today.

What I like is that while he's answered with intelligent realism, he's also provided some witty answers at the same time... such as his hope that the frenzy will slow down in two weeks and hopefully not 'cos of the results. His words.

Klopp also looked tired in today's presser, and I've read others analyze it as something negative that can have an impact on his psychology for the team. I think that's nonsense. All of this is not theatre. What matters is his training and tactics. Not the presser. Lucas' interview revealed that the players don't have the time to watch the whole press conferences. They are not going to hang on every word that Klopp tells the media. It's the media's job to spin that over and over for every cent.

I think the real test will come when we go through a rough patch and every manager has to experience that. Klopp didn't start going for the title in the Bundesliga. Even if he starts of around position 6, and tending toward 5th, I wouldn't see that as a problem for me. I know he has the experience (unlike Rodgers) to build something here, bring in true quality players and we will push on for a serious assault a year or two down the line. Now, it's time to let him get on with the job. The press should go and bother Mourinho in the meantime, he likes those kinds of silly questions and feeds off it, because, like I said, he needs distractions from his turgid style of play.

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Offline Tony19:6

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Re: The effect of the media, entertainment and truly analyzing Klopp
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2015, 09:12:36 pm »
Jesus wept. 'The normal one' is a bit of fun which will last for a couple of weeks ...

Some people cross the road to be offended and need to calm down.
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