Author Topic: David Moyes was the manager of Manchester United  (Read 3084631 times)

Offline kennedy81

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18880 on: January 6, 2014, 11:28:45 pm »
I was gonna post the story from the Telegraph, but I think the pic just says it all really...





Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18881 on: January 6, 2014, 11:30:47 pm »
I understand that. But my point is, does anyone serious think they'd have scored 50 goals last season if they didn't get RvP?

Others would have picked up the slack.

With RvP playing it is natural to rely upon him. Just like we send a lot of balls to Gerrard because he's been our reliable player. Without Gerrard the side still is effective just in another way.

The problem with that theory is who do you think would have picked up the slack? RVP scored 26 PL goals last year and a lot came against the tide of play with him making his own goals. Who in Utd would have done that in his absence? Rooney is either in great form or completely out of it, and last season more of the latter than the former.

Hard on the iPad to get this to display well but their fifth highest PL goalscorer was Evra with four goals then Evans with three. Working on the assumption that if Rooney and Hernández had played more and scored more accordingly then you might get closer but in a lot of those games, then Hernández's style of scoring wouldn't have been applicable and they'd have lost them. Welbeck one goal from 27 appearances, etc...

NUM   NAME               GS   SB   G   SH   SG   A
20   Robin Van Persie   35   3   26   141   65   8   
10   Wayne Rooney      22   5   12   86   35   10
14   Javier Hernández   9   13   10   44   23   3
26   Shinji Kagawa       17   3    6   21   10   3
3   Patrice Evra            34   0    4   22   11   5
6   Jonathan Evans      21   2    3   10   8   1

http://espnfc.com/team/squad/_/id/360/season/2012/league/eng.1/manchester-united?cc=5739

Online Ray K

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18882 on: January 6, 2014, 11:31:01 pm »
From Mark Ogden in the Telegraph:

David Moyes has been given free rein to dictate Manchester United’s transfer business this month, with the Old Trafford hierarchy handing the manager sole charge of club funds in an attempt to avoid a disastrous failure to qualify for the Champions League.


Continues


Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true.
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Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18883 on: January 6, 2014, 11:32:30 pm »
I was gonna post the story from the Telegraph, but I think the pic just says it all really...






Almost feel sorry for him seeing that but then I remember he's a winner and doesn't need my pity.

Offline eddymunster

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18884 on: January 6, 2014, 11:33:36 pm »
I was gonna post the story from the Telegraph, but I think the pic just says it all really...






Oddly small hand.
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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18885 on: January 6, 2014, 11:34:16 pm »
From Mark Ogden in the Telegraph:

David Moyes has been given free rein to dictate Manchester United’s transfer business this month, with the Old Trafford hierarchy handing the manager sole charge of club funds in an attempt to avoid a disastrous failure to qualify for the Champions League.


Continues


Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true. Please be true.

BAINES.


And it's not that Baines is even a bad player or wouldn't improve United. It's that they'd build their attack around him because it's Moyes' way.
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Offline macca007

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18886 on: January 6, 2014, 11:36:54 pm »
BAINES.


And it's not that Baines is even a bad player or wouldn't improve United. It's that they'd build their attack around him because it's Moyes' way.

But hes 29 and big money. Short termism again

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18887 on: January 6, 2014, 11:37:23 pm »
I was gonna post the story from the Telegraph, but I think the pic just says it all really...

His nose is a nice shade of red already; give it another year or so and it'll be full on purple.
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18888 on: January 6, 2014, 11:38:56 pm »
Oddly small hand.
:lmao

hadn't noticed that.
I was too distracted by the look of utter hopelessness and despair on his face.

Offline Red_Irishman

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18889 on: January 6, 2014, 11:40:11 pm »
I was gonna post the story from the Telegraph, but I think the pic just says it all really...






Jesus he looks absolutely fucked there.

Edit: I actually feel a small bit sorry for him in this photo.
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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18890 on: January 6, 2014, 11:44:11 pm »
The problem with that theory is who do you think would have picked up the slack? RVP scored 26 PL goals last year and a lot came against the tide of play with him making his own goals. Who in Utd would have done that in his absence? Rooney is either in great form or completely out of it, and last season more of the latter than the former.

Hard on the iPad to get this to display well but their fifth highest PL goalscorer was Evra with four goals then Evans with three. Working on the assumption that if Rooney and Hernández had played more and scored more accordingly then you might get closer but in a lot of those games, then Hernández's style of scoring wouldn't have been applicable and they'd have lost them. Welbeck one goal from 27 appearances, etc...

NUM   NAME               GS   SB   G   SH   SG   A
20   Robin Van Persie   35   3   26   141   65   8   
10   Wayne Rooney      22   5   12   86   35   10
14   Javier Hernández   9   13   10   44   23   3
26   Shinji Kagawa       17   3    6   21   10   3
3   Patrice Evra            34   0    4   22   11   5
6   Jonathan Evans      21   2    3   10   8   1

http://espnfc.com/team/squad/_/id/360/season/2012/league/eng.1/manchester-united?cc=5739

Luverly. Means nowt.

Now why didn't you go back one more season to see who scored all the goals. Rooney had 27. Are you claiming that without RvP Fergie wouldn't have featured Wayne again? Or has it dawned on you yet that Rooney was pissed off last season because RvP took his place as the primary striker and Wayne had to drop back to midfield and be a support player.
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Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18891 on: January 6, 2014, 11:45:12 pm »
BAINES.


And it's not that Baines is even a bad player or wouldn't improve United. It's that they'd build their attack around him because it's Moyes' way.

True. The fact he's 29 and his acquisition at probably close to £30m (or more if they negotiate like last summer) not addressing the biggest problem in the team and draining resources from elsewhere wouldn't stop Moyes.

The problem is where would you start in buying new players. The whole back line needs replacing, or at the very least, bringing in quality backup for positives like Jones. Similarly, the midfield needs fully replacing too, and quality wingers brought in so Januzaj isn't overplayed like we did with Sterling. Up front is slightly better but that assumes Rooney doesn't scarper and RVP isn't back to his old sick note days.

Beginning of the season we knew there were problems but not the extent of how far the rot had gone. Don't envy the job of fixing that team at all. Especially knowing the Glazers just how little money he'll actually get given to do it with.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18892 on: January 6, 2014, 11:49:56 pm »
Jesus he looks absolutely fucked there.

Edit: I actually feel a small bit sorry for him in this photo.
In fairness, it's hard not to.
Then I remind myself of the fact that he's getting paid millions and also of the last 20 years watching those twats win league titles.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18893 on: January 6, 2014, 11:50:36 pm »
I was gonna post the story from the Telegraph, but I think the pic just says it all really...






That's hardly gonna endear you to Yernited fans is if Davey? Chucking up the 5.
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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18894 on: January 6, 2014, 11:52:04 pm »
If you're considering that the likes of Vidic (now 32), Evra (32) and Ferdinand (35) need to be replaced, don't forget that Michael Carrick, still their best midfielder by miles, is 33 this summer.

Their squad age profile is horrible.
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Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18895 on: January 6, 2014, 11:53:09 pm »
Luverly. Means nowt.

Now why didn't you go back one more season to see who scored all the goals. Rooney had 27. Are you claiming that without RvP Fergie wouldn't have featured Wayne again? Or has it dawned on you yet that Rooney was pissed off last season because RvP took his place as the primary striker and Wayne had to drop back to midfield and be a support player.
But Rooney can play the deeper role effectively. So you get Rooney level goals plus a very good deeper lying forward, with the two in tandem.
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Offline EmotionalCitrus

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18896 on: January 6, 2014, 11:53:44 pm »
Please give Moyes £200m, this is the man who spent £30m on Fellaini. He could make them proper shite with that kind of money.

Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18897 on: January 6, 2014, 11:54:22 pm »
Luverly. Means nowt.

Now why didn't you go back one more season to see who scored all the goals. Rooney had 27. Are you claiming that without RvP Fergie wouldn't have featured Wayne again? Or has it dawned on you yet that Rooney was pissed off last season because RvP took his place as the primary striker and Wayne had to drop back to midfield and be a support player.

Why not go back one more season where Rooney only had 11 from 28 games? Was he pissed off that season too? Or maybe he is just that inconsistent considering the previous season to that one he scored twenty plus. Which was my point, his unreliability is a known quantity and why SAF brought in someone like RVP in the first place. I guess patronising me is easier than a rational response though.

I guess you forgot those England games where his touch and form were incredibly bad too, was he pissed off at then Roy as well? Is there a place in a side for a player, who if you're correct, is throwing games due to his tantrums? He was asked to play a support role, how is that exactly taking the piss as a manager? I don't see others throwing their toys out of the pram when asking to do the same.

Relying on one player has never been a sound strategy for any side but last season that is exactly what Utd did and without him they'd have lost a fair few games and the title.

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18898 on: January 6, 2014, 11:55:45 pm »

I wouldn't have believed this was real until my mates wife posted it up as a Christmas present, she supports Man U, him Everton!
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Offline Stussy

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18899 on: January 6, 2014, 11:56:52 pm »
the gloom and depression is falling upon their fans like a plague.

Its seeping into the very marrow of their bones.

Its wonderful to watch.

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Offline ElstonGunn

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18900 on: January 7, 2014, 12:02:07 am »
You know you're in trouble when you're a United manager being pitied by Liverpool fans.

Offline macca007

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18901 on: January 7, 2014, 12:04:45 am »
True. The fact he's 29 and his acquisition at probably close to £30m (or more if they negotiate like last summer) not addressing the biggest problem in the team and draining resources from elsewhere wouldn't stop Moyes.

The problem is where would you start in buying new players. The whole back line needs replacing, or at the very least, bringing in quality backup for positives like Jones. Similarly, the midfield needs fully replacing too, and quality wingers brought in so Januzaj isn't overplayed like we did with Sterling. Up front is slightly better but that assumes Rooney doesn't scarper and RVP isn't back to his old sick note days.

Beginning of the season we knew there were problems but not the extent of how far the rot had gone. Don't envy the job of fixing that team at all. Especially knowing the Glazers just how little money he'll actually get given to do it with.

Id have said the back is where they are best off. They have young capable players like de gea, jones, evans and rafael. Left back for them needs sorting and all the midfield then its looking at replacing van persie. Its then back up for those back 4 after that

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18902 on: January 7, 2014, 12:04:53 am »
Why not go back one more season where Rooney only had 11 from 28 games? Was he pissed off that season too? Or maybe he is just that inconsistent considering the previous season to that one he scored twenty plus. Which was my point, his unreliability is a known quantity and why SAF brought in someone like RVP in the first place. I guess patronising me is easier than a rational response though.

I guess you forgot those England games where his touch and form were incredibly bad too, was he pissed off at then Roy as well? Is there a place in a side for a player, who if you're correct, is throwing games due to his tantrums? He was asked to play a support role, how is that exactly taking the piss as a manager? I don't see others throwing their toys out of the pram when asking to do the same.

Relying on one player has never been a sound strategy for any side but last season that is exactly what Utd did and without him they'd have lost a fair few games and the title.

Go back as far as you like.

The point stands.

The year before RvP they scored more goals.

If they had never got RvP, it is ridiculous to assume that Man Utd's goal scoring would have dropped significantly off the pace from the previous season. Fergie would have got another striker, probably continued to feature Wayne, attacked as per normal and scored at the similar rate.

You can only put 11 on the pitch at one time. Fergie features one striker. Last season RvP. The season before Rooney. No RvP last season, then Rooney retains the role.

No doubt RvP played his role in the Championship last season but he wasn't the reason why they won. He was but a cog in the Man Utd wheel.
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Offline Mr_Shane

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18903 on: January 7, 2014, 12:08:59 am »
It isn't gloom and depression unless they are in the relegation zone....

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18904 on: January 7, 2014, 12:11:05 am »
It isn't gloom and depression unless they are in the relegation zone....

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Offline Red_Rich

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18905 on: January 7, 2014, 12:22:01 am »
If you're considering that the likes of Vidic (now 32), Evra (32) and Ferdinand (35) need to be replaced, don't forget that Michael Carrick, still their best midfielder by miles, is 33 this summer.

Their squad age profile is horrible.


Yes.  United's success in the past was built on evolving the squad slowly on an annual basis.  Bringing in 2 or 3 additions and letting the oldies move on naturally.

It's becoming more and more obvious that their squad needs major surgery and not just a couple of creative mids anymore.  That defence has been shocking for 80% of their games.
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Offline Red_Rich

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18906 on: January 7, 2014, 12:30:06 am »
A Manc mate I work with is already resigned to playing in the Europa League next year .... by virtue of getting to the Capital One final with City!

You have to laugh at how they're falling/have fallen
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Offline Red_Irishman

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18907 on: January 7, 2014, 12:32:43 am »
Gary Pallister on SSN earlier saying they need to be patient and give him time.

Fucking loving all this.
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Offline B0151?

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18908 on: January 7, 2014, 12:34:03 am »
Well I don't particularly rate them, but Man Utd fans do think Smalling and Jones are going to be quality CBs (having spent a decent amount on both of them), and Evans was often first-choice in recent years under Ferguson. So they already have possible replacements in that department.

The thing is, if Moyes wants to stand any chance of being successful then he's going to need world-class players in every position. That's just not happening.

Why did they talk about Moyes in the light of a natural succession, an almost boot-room like transition (though that makes no sense anyway), if he's going to have to spend Man City money to get a capable team? I guess I'm repeating Alan_X here - but it's true. Ferguson was Ferguson, but he's being made to be a demi-God of sorts the way it's apparently impossible for anyone to challenge for the title with the same group of players that won the bloody thing last year.

Offline slidez

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18909 on: January 7, 2014, 12:34:51 am »
A Manc mate I work with is already resigned to playing in the Europa League next year .... by virtue of getting to the Capital One final with City!

You have to laugh at how they're falling/have fallen

No european place is given to the finalist of the league cup if the winner has already qualified, thats only in the fa cup.

Offline MolbyLovesGravlax

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18910 on: January 7, 2014, 12:39:08 am »
No european place is given to the finalist of the league cup if the winner has already qualified, thats only in the fa cup.
Let them find that out when they finish 7th...
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Offline DAYDAY

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18911 on: January 7, 2014, 12:47:20 am »
Where is Gerald Sinstadt when you need him most.....Maybe Jon Champion or Clive Tyldsley can mutter those famous words  ;)

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18912 on: January 7, 2014, 12:57:51 am »
Where is Gerald Sinstadt when you need him most?

Last seen having a sly wank in The Eros picture house on London Road, allegedly. Even if that rumour is bullshit, I would have loved it to have been true. In my imagination, he stood up, cock in hand, during his vinegar strokes and screamed to the people downstairs "They think it's all over." And then just as he jizzed off the balcony, continued "It is now."
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Offline Phil M

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18913 on: January 7, 2014, 01:00:27 am »
From Barclay the arl c*nt.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-at-251-that-still-looks-tempting-9012379.html

Having ventured, on the season’s eve, a fancy for Manchester United to retain the Premier League title under David Moyes, I cannot deny that the past few months have involved some internal embarrassment.

Nor does one impressive win at Aston Villa suddenly fill me with hope of an unlikely vindication. All I’ll say is that dying embers have been sufficiently fanned to prompt a search of the odds and that the most generous, the 25-1 Ladbrokes were offering this morning, caused a degree of temptation.

If United beat West Ham at Old Trafford on Saturday, which Moyes will expect and Sam Allardyce fear, they will be only seven points behind Arsenal and five behind Chelsea as they wait for London’s leading candidates to damage each other at the Emirates on Monday night. There are, of course, also Manchester City and Liverpool to consider as England, for once, revels in the most open and fascinating title race of all the major European Leagues.

Twenty points separate first from eighth in Spain. In Germany it’s 21, in Italy 23. Here it’s 10 — and everyone’s aware that both United and Moyes (when with Everton) have habits of gaining momentum in the second half of a season.

Other factors gather. Although Moyes (above) didn’t impress in his first transfer window, the need to panic next month is reduced by not only the emergence of Adnan Januzaj but the weekend return to the central midfield of Darren Fletcher; if he and a fit-again Michael Carrick can be reunited on a regular basis, this department will no longer be considered a serious weakness.

Up front, Danny Welbeck’s display at Villa Park emphasised that United, with Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie, can compete with even City and a Liverpool led by Luis Suarez.

But the defence? It was a failure to hear the creaks that led me to make that forecast. So how wrong was I? We’ll see.
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Offline Gods_Left_Boot

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18914 on: January 7, 2014, 01:01:38 am »
Gary Pallister on SSN earlier saying they need to be patient and give him time.

Fucking loving all this.

Is right. He needs time to steady the ship. Two or three years out of the CL wouldn't be that much of a tragedy, either. Only in a few years time we'll see Davey's football identity finally stamped onto the club. They gave Ferguson six trophyless years and look how that turned out. I, for one, urge them to do the same with the Moyesiah.
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Offline Mahern

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18915 on: January 7, 2014, 01:48:51 am »
Who is this person "call me Dave" who keeps talking about austerity?

Offline lorenzo23

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18916 on: January 7, 2014, 02:22:38 am »


Up front, Danny Welbeck’s display at Villa Park emphasised that United, with Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie, can compete with even City and a Liverpool led by Luis Suarez.


Danny Welbeck display means he makes up the numbers to compete with Liverpool and City attack :lmao
Liverpool manager Rafael Benítez admitted after the match that the manner of his side's victory had stunned him and he stated: "My problem is that I don't have words to express the things that I feel at this moment"

Offline lorenzo23

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18917 on: January 7, 2014, 03:16:03 am »
Stole this of Red Cafe good reading.

While that is a fantastic and instantaneous improvement, it looks like a case of a manager capable running the ship aground to save it from sinking. Trouble is, it won't sail any more, it'll just sit there for years until someone more crafty comes along and gets it to sea again. Typical dime-a-dozen mid-table manager in the Hodgson, Pulis and O'Neill mold.

Some managers just lack that little extra something that brings trophies. Most of the managers who go on to become notorious for their ability to win do so very early in their careers. You either have it or you don't. I'd say Moyes is one of those who are very capable, but lack the extra oomph of the truly top class managers. To prove a point, here's a list of the leading managers today and the amount of time it took them to win anything of note:

Hiddink: Took over PSV in 1987 at the age of 41. In a three-year stint he won three league titles, two Dutch cups and a UEFA Cup.

Mourinho: Started managing with Benfica in 2000, at the age of 37. Two years later he took over Porto. With them he won two leagues, a Portuguese Cup, the UEFA cup and the Champions League in two seasons.

Guardiola: Managed Barcelona B for a season (where he won the Tercera Division) starting in 2007, at the age of 36, before being bumped up to the top job. In four years there he won three league titles, two cups, two Champions Leagues and two Club World Cups.

van Gaal: Took over Ajax in 1991 at the age of 40. In six seasons he won the league three times, the Dutch cup once, the UEFA cup once and the Champions League once.

Blanc: Took over Bordeaux in 2007 at the age of 42 and finished 2nd in the league in his first season, before winning it the year later, thus ending Lyon's seven year reign as undefeated champions. Bordeaux hadn't won the league in nine years, and had only finished top three twice in that time before Blanc took over.

Klopp: Took over Mainz as a 34-year old and spent seven seasons with them, getting them up to the Bundesliga for the first time ever and staying there for three straight seasons. Klopp then got hired for the Dortmund job, and his achievements there should be fairly well-known, with a couple of leagues, a cup and a Champions League final being the main points.

Simeone: Started out in 2006 at the age of 36 and won the Argentine league that year with Estudiantes. Won it again with River Plate in 2008. Has managed Atletico since late 2011 and has won the Copa del Rey and the Europa League with them. 2nd in the league so far this season and on the same amount of points as leaders Barcelona.

Capello: Took over Milan at 45 in 1991. Won four league titles and a Champions League in his five years there.

Ancelotti: Started managing in 1995 as a 36-year old with Reggiana. Did a good, albeit trophyless job with Parma from 1996 to 1998 before having an equally trophyless two-year spell with Juventus. In 2002 he started an eight-year stint with Milan, where he won a league, a cup, two Champions Leagues and a CWC.

Wenger: Took over Nancy at 35 in 1984. Three years later he took over Monaco, winning a league and a cup in seven seasons.

I bet there's more that I've forgotten. The common ground is they all won something in the first 10 years of their careers, regardless of how shit the club they started out at was. Sir Alex did it too. Ole has done it. Even bloody Benitez has. Moyes hasn't even managed to fluke a League Cup at Everton. Wigan managed the FA Cup and they have a fanbase that would struggle to fill a phone booth and an even smaller budget than Everton. I can't see anything in Moyes so far that says he has the ability to win silverware, barring the free Community Shield that SAF practically gifted him.
Liverpool manager Rafael Benítez admitted after the match that the manner of his side's victory had stunned him and he stated: "My problem is that I don't have words to express the things that I feel at this moment"

Offline please, I have my reasons for it but...

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18918 on: January 7, 2014, 03:52:48 am »
BAINES.


And it's not that Baines is even a bad player or wouldn't improve United. It's that they'd build their attack around him because it's Moyes' way.
I doubt Kenwright would be willing to do any business with them especially after the Fellaini fiasco.
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Offline justarslan

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Re: David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United
« Reply #18919 on: January 7, 2014, 03:54:15 am »
José Mourinho rings David Moyes after the Spurs game

http://youtu.be/dQ5lUJm9rvw
« Last Edit: January 7, 2014, 03:56:30 am by justarslan »
I want to hold my hands up and apologise to Rafa.
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