Author Topic: Officiating and LFC  (Read 6149 times)

Offline NeilR

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Officiating and LFC
« on: November 29, 2012, 08:45:50 am »
Not sure if this thread will be locked or not, but the officiating in our domestic games is becoming beyond a joke. Things have gone on for too long just to be co-incidental and are certainly not balanced officiating. Rogers did get on the band wagon publically with it for a short time but seems tohave gone quiet on it again despite the incorrectness continuing (maybe someone has had a word with him off the record).

Dowds poor officiating against us continued last night against Spurs. Look at the foul and sending off Dowd gave against Agger in the West Brom game, and compare it to last nights 2 incidents. Last nights were both worse. It is bias or complete incompetence (either is unacceptable at this level).

Wasn't Dowd also the ref for our game against Utd? Giving the penalty for Valencia for minimal contact, when again you compare it to both our incidents last night.

I dont think the refs each applying the rules differently is acceptable as they should have one standard, but you can understand why one ref has a different interpretation on the rules and applies it slightly differently. So you would have inconsistency between refs but expect they apply their own judgement on it consistently. But the same ref blatantly applying the rules one way for us and completely differently for everyone else against us is unacceptable.

Earlier in the season I thought "well we arent getting the breaks now, but they'll come". Now I do believe there is an agenda against us (either that or we are in for a hugh windfall of incorrect decisions in our favour over the 2nd half of the season). Far too many incidents to be coincidental and not 1 going in our favour yet. You would think (as the pundits wrongly suggest that things balance themselves out over the course of the season) that we'd have gotten a wrong decision which has gone in our favour considering the number of wrong ones that have gone against us by now. But that doesnt look like changing.

Off the top of my head I can think of the following stone wall wrong ones (i'll not mention the debatable ones or all the piddly fouls around the less critical areas of the pitch) against us and struggle to think of a single wrong one in our favour...

- West Brom: both penalties debatable.
- City: Kolarov foul on Johnson in the box.
- Arsenal: Mertesacker pulling back Suarez in the box.
- Sunderland: Suarez booked for diving in the box, when he was tripped.
- Utd: Shelvy sent off, Evans not sent off, Valencia penalty, Evans no penalty trip on Suarez., van persie 2 footed tackle on Suso.
- Norwich: Suarez climbed all over the back of and practically assaulted in the box.
- Stoke: Too many to mention all, but the Huth Stamp on Suarez going completely unpunished (even after the game by the FA), and very early in the game I think it was Huth again slid in through the back of Suso, Whitehead lunging slide through Suarez.
- Everton: Winning Suarez goal ruled offside when it was never in a million years even close to being.
- Swansea: Enrique goal ruled off side wrongly (especially if in doubt the advantage is to go to the attacker).
- Spurs: Dive got their free for the winning goal, Suarez fouled in the box by Gallas, Gerrard found in the box by Dembele.

And as I said, thats just off the top of my head and I'd love it if someone had kept a log of every big wrong decision in each match that went against us this season to have a read through. People can say all they want about us needing to win games without the help of the officials, but looking at this snap shot list even can you imagine the difference to our points tally and position if even 50% of these were given. And again we still have gotten a dodgy one in our favour either yet. Doesn't stack up. Definately an agenda since we rubbed up the FA and Ferguson the wrong way last year!

Also strange (suspicious) we don't seem to be on the same bad side of things in Europe with non-PL refs!

Offline redk84

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2012, 08:57:59 am »
Its frustrating as fuck. Can understand where your coming from...

But what can u do? Rodgers has highlighted when he has been upset with decisions....thats all he can do.

We need to concentrate on the things we can control. i.e our piss poor finishing and our almost comical defending all over the park when opposing teams are countering us.
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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2012, 08:59:26 am »
Overall we don't get treated that badly with one important caveat. We still have some of the big club lustre that means we don't get the raw end of the deal that the clubs fresh up from the Championship get. Unfortunately that caveat is that our only striker and principle goal threat appears to be exempted from the rules covering being fouled. If Suarez was refereed to the standards of our other players, I could live with the other decisions as the refs general incompetence.

I was talking to Reading fan a few days ago. And they had noticed that it requires a limb amputation attempt for Luis to stand a chance of getting awarded a foul.

Offline ScottyBoy_21

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2012, 09:00:21 am »
You sound incredibly bitter. Yes, we do get decisions go against us, but so do other teams. Everton had a stonewall penalty turned down against Arsenal last night, for example.

Also, things have gone FOR us at times too. I.E our third goal against Wigan coming from a throw in that should've gone to Wigan. Suarez's push on Ramires just before scoring against Chelsea. The countless Suarez stamps in recent games (whether accidental or not) that should've meant a booking for him, meaning he'd be suspended. Skrtel's horror tackle last night (should have been a red).

I could go on.

Offline Smudgester

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2012, 09:04:03 am »
Halsey was the ref for the Man U game but Dowd ref'ed (I use the term losely) the West Brom game.

Quite frankly, anybody denying refereeing in this country is not bent is clearly deluding themselves. The standard of refereeing in this country has been poor, and getting worse every season, for years.

Fans wonder why no new refs are coming through; the simple reason is cos the FA keep employing the shit ones like Webb and Dowd. Think about it .... would you take a job knowing that you've have got no chance of promotion cos people who clearly worse than you keep getting favoured instead of you ?

As I said in the post-match thread, LFC should be going on live TV and stating that they will not take part in any game where Dowd is officiating. Not alone is their strong, at least circumstancial, evidence that the man has an agenda against our club .... he is clearly at least 4 stone overweight and, therefore, not fit enough to the do the job he is paid Ģ100k to do.

As you say - if English refs aren't that 'bad' why do decisions in European games seem to go completely the opposite way ie Man U in Europe (by PL ref standards) seem to get nothing whilst we get a fair crack of the whip.

Unfortunately that caveat is that our only striker and principle goal threat appears to be exempted from the rules covering being fouled. If Suarez was refereed to the standards of our other players, I could live with the other decisions as the refs general incompetence.

I was talking to Reading fan a few days ago. And they had noticed that it requires a limb amputation attempt for Luis to stand a chance of getting awarded a foul.

The amazing thing commentators don't seem to have grasped the irony/meaning of the "we're going to have a party" chant yet.

MOTD spotted the case after the Norwich game ('if he doesn't get a penalty for that, he's never to going to get one') and, sadly, it's been proved to be true.

You sound incredibly bitter. Yes, we do get decisions go against us, but so do other teams. Everton had a stonewall penalty turned down against Arsenal last night, for example.

Of course they do, but some teams (already this season) are getting far far more decisions against them than anyone else.

Also, things have gone FOR us at times too. I.E our third goal against Wigan coming from a throw in that should've gone to Wigan. Suarez's push on Ramires just before scoring against Chelsea. The countless Suarez stamps in recent games (whether accidental or not) that should've meant a booking for him, meaning he'd be suspended. Skrtel's horror tackle last night (should have been a red).

There is a world of difference between being incorrectly awarded a throw-in half way up the pitch (which eventually leads to a goal) in a game where we were in total control and conceding a freekick (from which the opposition directly score), not being given blatant penalties (and my count on that score is now up to at least 6 this season). having 2 perfectly valid goals ruled out for non-existant offside (that's cost us 4 points), etc, etc.

And I am sorry - but anybody who thinks that either the Distin or Wigan player 'fouls' by Suarez were 'stamps' is a fucking idiot !!! Huth on Suarez was a 'stamp'.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 09:12:34 am by Smudgester »

Offline Kovai Red

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 09:06:53 am »
The standards has to improve definitely. We have huge number of decisions going against us which are unfair on us.
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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2012, 09:13:48 am »
To be fair in the Everton game Suarez could have easily have been given a second yellow.

Offline aggerdid

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 09:19:34 am »
Skrtel's horror tackle last night (should have been a red).
if its the tackle he made to stop dempsey breaking up the field then you're silly to call that a horror tackle. yeah he was never getting the ball but thats called "accepting a yellow" and good defending if you ask me. the commentators called in a bad tackle but the're all thick
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Offline Paul-LFC

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 09:20:37 am »
The countless Suarez stamps in recent games (whether accidental or not) that should've meant a booking for him, meaning he'd be suspended.
Mind listing these "countless stamps" then?

Offline Smudgester

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 09:24:17 am »
Mind listing these "countless stamps" then?

They will be the Distin foul and the one on the Wigan defender (which, post match, Martinez said was a definite red card :lmao )

As I said above, neither were 'stamps'; Huth's attempt to deliberately break a few of Suarez's ribs was a 'stamp'

Offline robertobaggio37

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 09:26:52 am »
What about horrible late tackle on Sterling? I think it was Dembele.. got away with it just like that  :butt
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Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 09:45:43 am »
There have been a number of dubious decisions go against us, but there is an argument to say that if we put the ball in the net the many other times we have chances those decisions become less important.  Liverpool have a problem of letting a crap decision get to us.  If we aren't given a clear penalty we complain loads and it affects our game.  Do Man U do this?  Nope.  They complain, but then they just become more determined to get the goal so that the poor decision doesn't matter.

The key this season has been the number of critical decisions, pen decisions when we are drawing etc.

While the OP is correct about some of the items listed, there are a few that seem to be seen through red-tinted glasses.  The WBA pens?  They were definitely fouls and it was our own stupid fault that we let them happen.  The fouling in the Stoke game?  We knew that was how they would play, but rather than let it fire us up to win a la Man U, we acted like Arsenal and complained and let it get to us.

Let's not forget we got a goal against Wigan the other week that came from a throw-in that was blatantly not ours.

There's no conspiracy, I think we are just getting ourselves on the raw end of some decisions.  How we react to them is key and we react very badly.

The only area I'd say we need to be pushing the FA over is Luis Suarez.  Refs are still clearly giving the benefit of the doubt to the defender in all circumstances.  This we need to fight the FA over.

Offline fingermouse

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 09:49:26 am »
I noticed in last nights game the Fox commentary team made a huge song and dance about the incident where Agger hooked the ball back from the goal line for Suarez to volley over.

The guy said it would have been a 'massive injustice' if Suarez had scored and that the spurs players would be 'rightfully aggrieved' if the goal had stood.

The suarez and gerrard pens, whether you agree or disagree with the decisions, barely warranted a mention.

Yet when its a debatable decision we MIGHT have benefitted from, they go on and on like the fu**ing toothache.


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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2012, 10:04:22 am »
Bit of a Bitter feel to this thread to be honest.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. If you win 4-0 no-one gripes about disallowed goals.
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Offline cynicaloldgit

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2012, 10:17:55 am »
It's a conspiracy. The FA run the game & they're run by David Gill who also runs ManU. Obvious isn't it. A conspiracy I tell thee...
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As for our own woes, it's true that we wouldn't be complaining if we had taken our chances in all our games this season but the fact remains that we get far more important decisions against us than we do in our favour. It has been the case for years, but has become almost a joke this season.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 10:19:37 am by cynicaloldgit »
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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 10:19:52 am »
Two things in this I think are certain - it's definitely NOT a level playing field and these things DO NOT level themselves out over the season.

Whether there is genuine corruption or bias is another question.

However, I would be versy surprised if PGMOL or whatever they're called do not single out certain players whom they believe to be potential cheats and point them out to refs in the "Team" meetings they must run.  Suarez would be one of these and this is why it's almost impossible for him to get a decision.  They're trying to second guess what they think is happening based on certain players' perceived reputiations and if you referee like this you create bias and incorrect decisions are the result.
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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2012, 10:21:23 am »

our captain and our team need to manage the referee better too.

Being nice guys is getting us nowhere.

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2012, 10:23:08 am »
If a center half punched Suarez square on the jaw, the ref would give chin to hand.
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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2012, 10:26:28 am »
the lower down the table you are, the less decisions you get.
I remember how everyone used to moan about us getting all the decisions. Its what happens when you aren't a top side.

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2012, 10:30:17 am »
the lower down the table you are, the less decisions you get.
I remember how everyone used to moan about us getting all the decisions. Its what happens when you aren't a top side.
True - ish.  We used to get more penalties than anyone else as we used to get the ball in the box more than any other team.  I still think given where we are in the League we do suffer more than any other team from poor decisions and benefit less regularly from incorrect decisions.  I think the poor decisions are partly the result of our perceived popularity as a team (something which the press have influenced massively in recent seasons) rather than our League position.
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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2012, 11:03:07 am »
I loved Motd at the weekend when they discussed Enrique's not offside goal against Swansea. They pointed out that Chico's back leg actually played José on and it therefore should have been a goal. They went on to say these things balance themselves out over the course of the season and gave Suárez v Everton as an example of this.  :butt
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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2012, 11:05:59 am »
If a center half punched Suarez square on the jaw, the ref would give chin to hand.
After he'd made him sweep what was left of his hand up!

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2012, 11:07:03 am »
I noticed in last nights game the Fox commentary team made a huge song and dance about the incident where Agger hooked the ball back from the goal line for Suarez to volley over.

The guy said it would have been a 'massive injustice' if Suarez had scored and that the spurs players would be 'rightfully aggrieved' if the goal had stood.

The suarez and gerrard pens, whether you agree or disagree with the decisions, barely warranted a mention.

Yet when its a debatable decision we MIGHT have benefitted from, they go on and on like the fu**ing toothache.

Remember how much they went on about Suarez goal v Wigan which resulted from us being given a throw in when it should have gone to Wigan.

Also the goal from a Dempsey dive last night. The same Fox commentary team said "he looks like he has gone down rather easily there but every Premier League referee would give a free kick for that". Yeah we don't doubt you there. Incompetance is consistant in the Premier League it seems.
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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2012, 11:08:50 am »
While we are unlucky with decisions overall the refereeing decisions have been awful this season, not just with us either.

When you miss an open goal, get a goal cleared off the line and Suarez misses two you would usually bank to put in the net, while our leftback was on cloud 9 and our wall were too scared to do their job then you cant point the finger at anyone but ourselves.

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2012, 11:16:10 am »
You sound incredibly bitter. Yes, we do get decisions go against us, but so do other teams. Everton had a stonewall penalty turned down against Arsenal last night, for example.

Also, things have gone FOR us at times too. I.E our third goal against Wigan coming from a throw in that should've gone to Wigan. Suarez's push on Ramires just before scoring against Chelsea. The countless Suarez stamps in recent games (whether accidental or not) that should've meant a booking for him, meaning he'd be suspended. Skrtel's horror tackle last night (should have been a red).

I could go on.

A miss-awarded throwin is not balance. That ball went out in the middle of the Wigan half. However their defenders decided to move out of position to walk up the pitch and argue with the referee. That is an example of poor discipline not "balanced officiating".

Also that "Skrtel horror tackle" is never a red card. Itīs a cynical foul to break up a counter attak but the tackle was neither dangerous or preventing a clear goal scoring oppertunity. All Defensive midfielders master that tackle to "take one for the team". You will see plenty of them in Italy too.

Also I very much doubt you could go on unless you start listing instances where we took a throw in a few yards further forward or how Skrtel holds people in the box at corners sometimes.

The OP is talking about game changing decisions which seem to overwhelmingly go against us. I don't think that can disputed really.... although it could be said that it will not benefit us to continually harp on about it as we just appear like whingers.
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Offline latortuga

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2012, 11:21:29 am »
Watch a lot of football in a lot different leagues and can't recall a season where there have been so many poor refereeing decisions on a consistent basis. 

I mean we ask for consistency but this really is taking the p!ss.





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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2012, 11:24:59 am »
You just know that when we finally get a pen, we're gonna miss it.
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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2012, 11:47:04 am »
Phil Dowd is an atrocious referee. He was fucking terrible yesterday. Felt sorry for Sterling, anytime the lad touched a Spurs player he was penalised.
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Offline Smudgester

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2012, 11:53:27 am »
There have been a number of dubious decisions go against us, but there is an argument to say that if we put the ball in the net the many other times we have chances those decisions become less important.

That, to be fair, is a bullshit argument.

Why should a team have to score multiple goals because it is likely that the ref rules out some of them incorrectly ?

Offline Camarero25

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2012, 11:57:57 am »
People can say "Oh but we should've scored more goals anyway so it's irrelevant" all they like, at the moment we don't have the firepower to compensate for decisions we should be getting.

Oh, and we have scored legitimate goals that would have won us games, then they've been ruled out for no fucking reason.

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2012, 12:03:19 pm »
You may jest, but how many general football fans know that Sky tried to buy Manchester United in 1998? Is it any coincidence that that club's domination of the top division has come since its would-be owners took over the promotion and coverage of the league? The six points United have been gifted at Anfield and Stamford Bridge this season mean that the table does lie sometimes.

As for our own woes, it's true that we wouldn't be complaining if we had taken our chances in all our games this season but the fact remains that we get far more important decisions against us than we do in our favour. It has been the case for years, but has become almost a joke this season.

I knew it when I posted that above.

The bottom line is that the club doesn't seem to be well run at the moment, it definitely hasn't been run properly for many, many years and unless we improve ALL aspects of our operations we have no chance to compete.
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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2012, 12:05:17 pm »
If you think referees are deliberately out to get us, you need to get a grip on yourself.

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2012, 12:09:19 pm »
There has to be something we can do. Week after week (turning into year after year now) we have been taking it from behind courtesy of the FA on multiple levels. From refereeing to off the pitch disciplinary decisions.

I honestly think something FAR worse than what we saw in Italy is occurring. Is there a way to get a police investigation going? It needs to happen. The FA are corrupt to the fullest extent. There is no doubt in my mind

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2012, 12:12:19 pm »
Us and Everton routinely near the bottom of the decisions table. Chelsea are also down there after Clattenburg-gate. Co-incidence? I think not. You simply cannot take on the establishment, either as a city or as a club, and get away with it.


Offline LiverpoolLankford

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2012, 12:12:23 pm »
If you think referees are deliberately out to get us, you need to get a grip on yourself.

What other explanation do you have for the consistent and unrelenting nature in which key decisions go against us? A few decisions here or there I can understand. But it's game after game after game. Something is up

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2012, 12:14:44 pm »
People can say "Oh but we should've scored more goals anyway so it's irrelevant" all they like, at the moment we don't have the firepower to compensate for decisions we should be getting.

Oh, and we have scored legitimate goals that would have won us games, then they've been ruled out for no fucking reason.

Most games in the league are tight, decided by one or two goals so if a big decision goes against a team, such as goal wrongly ruled out or a penalty which isn't given but should have been, the chances are it'll have an impact on the result. This season for us, we've felt the effect of a lot of decisions not go in our favour. That's not to say it's the only reason we're struggling, far from it, like anything else, there's a a whole list of things that have contributed to our season, many of them being of our own making, which are being discussed elsewhere. It's frustrating when things you can't control start affecting the team though.
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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2012, 12:17:00 pm »
All teams (but one) in this league get shocking decisions against them week in, week out.
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Offline Camarero25

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2012, 12:21:34 pm »
Most games in the league are tight, decided by one or two goals so if a big decision goes against a team, such as goal wrongly ruled out or a penalty which isn't given but should have been, the chances are it'll have an impact on the result. This season for us, we've felt the effect of a lot of decisions not go in our favour. That's not to say it's the only reason we're struggling, far from it, like anything else, there's a a whole list of things that have contributed to our season, many of them being of our own making, which are being discussed elsewhere. It's frustrating when things you can't control start affecting the team though.

Agreed.

There's games we've fucked up ourselves and had no right to win, refereeing decisions or not.

However, when you literally have two points taken away from you (not to mention the momentum and confidence we would've gained from the result) when your striker is two yards onside, it's pretty fucking hard to take.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2012, 12:22:49 pm »
You could argue there's a problem with the decisions Suarez is getting or not getting - and you can see the obvious narrative that could cause this

However I have to say this thread does the site no favours and plays into some of the worst stereo types about us.
Sorry but we're not 4 points off relegation because the referees are out to get us - we're 4 points off relegation because we're not good enough

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Re: Officiating and LFC
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2012, 12:24:01 pm »
think one of the posters was right when he said we need to concentrate on getting bits of our game right rather than dwell on decisions going against us...
the more we moan about it the worse it will get
sods law is that when we start doing our bit right,and we dont desperately need them decisions,we will start to get them which might get us out of jail on occasions
that lady luck is a right tease when youre desperate..lol
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