Author Topic: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00  (Read 73926 times)

Offline Degs

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Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« on: October 30, 2012, 10:22:22 pm »
Moneyball, Sabremetrics, Soccernomics.  There are a multitude of transfer strategies for the esoteric football professional to indulge in.  Our own Brendan Rodgers was pictured with Moneyball taking pride of place as the only book on his Swansea desk, next to his shiny Apple Mac. While I have taken Brendan Rodgers to my heart I often wonder, if like me, this is partly because he is a footballing hipster – you can imagine him shaking his head watching Real Madrid and telling the poor soul next to him that they’d get more out of Ozil if they played him like Bremen did in the 09-10 season.
When Damien Comolli was installed as the “Euopean Billy Bean”, he arrived with his big book of statistics in tow and copy of Football Manager on pre-order, ready to unearth unknown gems like Stewart Downing and to pay handsomely for them. Meanwhile another transfer strategy was brewing in the North-East, it had no fancy name, it had no books on the subject, this was a simple solution that could simply be named “Common Sense”. 

While the transfer bubble for English players continued to grow Newcastle profited handsomely by selling Andy Carroll for £35 million and continuing their policy of spending on cheaper European talent than in the over-saturated British market.  The success of Newcastle’s transfers has been credited to chief scout Graham Carr, recently rewarded with a new 8 year contract, but it is the European-myopia of almost every other English club that has allowed Newcastle to plunder the continent.

Yohan Cabaye was not spotted through a long-lens camera by Graham Carr sneaking a look in an obscure French 3rd division youth academy.  Cabaye had just won the French double, played 48 games (including 6 in Europe), and received 4 caps from France.  When he became available for £4.3 million it should have sparked a contract tug of war around Europe’s top leagues, instead Newcastle were able to wrap up a deal before the transfer window had opened and add to their ever expanding continental contingent. The same strategy remains today, Hatem Ben Arfa on loan (later permanent) had played for Lyon and Marseille and was again capped by France (7 times), Davide Santon was a highly rated full back at Inter available for £5 million and having been capped at every level by Italy, Papiss Cisse had scored 39 goals in 67 for German side Freiburg, Demba Ba was a free agent and had scored 7 goals in 12 Premier League matches, while Chieck Tiote had won league titles at both his former clubs in Belgium and Holland (£3.5 million).

The fees for every player mentioned in the above accumulate to around £30 million, or 87% of Andy Carroll (is his pony tail the extra 13%?).  Even up to the last transfer window it was only Newcastle who were being linked with the world-class Mathieu Debuchy, the fee was rumoured to be £6 million, however Arsenal’s Bacary Sagna was injured and Debuchy shone at the European Championships – putting him out of Newcastle’s reach.

While it may be a risk to spend £30 million in talent unproven in the English league the spread betting approach of leveraging it on a number of high quality cheap players guaranteed that Newcastle would eventually get their money’s worth out of one of the players and negate the cost of players who did not settle, the great thing for Newcastle was this happened with almost every player.

Sunday provides a great test for Brendan Rodgers’ footballing oeuvre.  Newcastle will arrive and play with a 4-4-2. When they travelled to Goodison Park earlier this season the 4-4-2, now synonymous with Pardew, was ousted and the extra midfielder was brought in – after only 45 minutes this experiment was quickly abandoned and the substitute Demba Ba would go on to score 2 second half goals. Since that game Newcastle have started every league match with 2 strikers.

As dangerous as Newcastle are up front Brendan Rodgers will be expecting to win this match in midfield.  Although on paper it may seem like Liverpool, with a midfield 3, will be outnumbered by the 4 man midfield of Newcastle the match will quickly evolve into a midfield battle of Allen, Gerrard, and one of Sahin/Shelvey against Cabaye and James Perch.  The wingers on either side are evenly matched Gutierrez/Ben Arfa and Suso/Sterling both offer blends of technique and industry while both sets of defences teeter from the ridiculous to the sublime.

Liverpool’s plan will be to dominate in midfield, a football asphyxia. Newcastle’s plan will be ruthless in its efficiency, to make chances through industry and allow the clinical forwards to take every chance.  As Joe Allen continues to deputise for the injured Lucas there remains the possibility of being caught on the counter-attack, with pace in abundance and an almost Alonso like distributer in Cabaye the game is set up for both sides to score.
Sunday sees 2 of English football’s traditional sides looking to cement an identity by going against the grain, for Newcastle this has been done through the transfer market, for Liverpool it has come on the tactics board.  Sunday should provide the sort of thrilling spectacle that comes from 2 flawed squads sprinkled with the odd touch of world-class player.
 
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 06:42:22 pm by The 5th Benitle »

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Re: Newcastle Preview
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2012, 11:49:19 pm »
Think this will definitely be an interesting one. Newcastle are a direct team who combine the old and the new. They rely arguably the most of all the teams in the league on their two #9 strikers and alternatively their creative spark, Ben Arfa, is a "central winger" and their midfield is very continental in terms of the playmaker-destroyer combo. This season Demba Ba has 7 goals already, Cisse 1 off a deflection, Ben Arfa and Cabaye the others. Last sense Ba scored 16 and Cisse 13, Ben Arfa 5 and Cabaye 4. Making up their top 4 scorers seemingly for a consecutive season. It will be tricky one and a test to our determination and ability to stick to playing our own game. Rodgers will have seen a lot of positives from the Everton game and I for one am very interested in what he will take from the derby and how it will effect his line up against Newcastle.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 03:27:53 pm by royhendo »
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Re: Newcastle Preview
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2012, 10:49:31 am »
Triffic stuff, Degs. It's little wonder Newcastle gave Graham Carr an 8-year contract (iirc).

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Re: Newcastle Preview
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2012, 02:10:42 pm »
Very enjoyable write-up.

A game for Joe Allen to shine I think. But that will need Pepe Reina to take his place between the sticks and find ways of getting the ball past Cisse and Ba without it going all the way forward to the Newcastle centre backs.
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Re: Newcastle Preview
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2012, 03:33:04 pm »
It's excellent degs. My only suggestion would be to show the few where it didn´t work out to make use of the remaining 13%. Obertan (3.5m) & Perch (1.5m) would seem to nicely make up the difference and maybe also show that they do still make some transfer mistakes. Obertan in particular looks a poor piece of business. Yet at the 3.5m he cost Newcastle will take that I´m sure. Likewise Perch hasn´t raised any eyebrows yet I imagine Newcastle could make back that 1.5m if they sold him tomorrow. They have done a cracking job in the transfer market and hopefully our snapping up of Assaidi is the first of many similar deals for us.

No idea how Manchester United made a profit for that Obertan transfer by the way. Similarly the £8m sale of Tosic left me scratching my head. I´m just waiting now for Moyes or Pulis to stick a £10m bid in for Bébé!
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Offline Degs

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Re: Newcastle Preview
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2012, 05:30:41 pm »
It's excellent degs. My only suggestion would be to show the few where it didn´t work out to make use of the remaining 13%. Obertan (3.5m) & Perch (1.5m) would seem to nicely make up the difference and maybe also show that they do still make some transfer mistakes. Obertan in particular looks a poor piece of business. Yet at the 3.5m he cost Newcastle will take that I´m sure. Likewise Perch hasn´t raised any eyebrows yet I imagine Newcastle could make back that 1.5m if they sold him tomorrow. They have done a cracking job in the transfer market and hopefully our snapping up of Assaidi is the first of many similar deals for us.

No idea how Manchester United made a profit for that Obertan transfer by the way. Similarly the £8m sale of Tosic left me scratching my head. I´m just waiting now for Moyes or Pulis to stick a £10m bid in for Bébé!
I think Obertan was a good bit of business for £3m as was Perch.
They're not the best players but they plumped up Newcastle's squad well.

If anything I'd question their lenient medicals (rumours abound that they're not very stringent) and signings like Marveux provide the flip side of the Demba Ba coin.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2012, 07:05:30 pm »
I suppose that´s fair enough. When you look at the difference in price between say Cabaye and Obertan then you are comparing what they have given the side. If you look at Obertan as a 3.5m squad player then it´s good value. Likewise Perch overs cover for a variety of positions.

Marveaux was a bullet we dodged and was said by many at the time. I suppose if you package him and Ba together.... it´s worked out well for them as I assume if one failed a medical then both would.
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Offline Zelnaga

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #7 on: November 1, 2012, 12:43:17 pm »
The way we playing at home at the moment? This is going to be a tough game. Id be happy with a draw.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #8 on: November 1, 2012, 12:45:40 pm »
Great piece Degs.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #9 on: November 1, 2012, 12:53:19 pm »
The way we playing at home at the moment? This is going to be a tough game. Id be happy with a draw.

We need to start winning mate. I'll settle for nothing less than a win this Sunday, anything else and its a poor result IMO.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #10 on: November 1, 2012, 12:54:26 pm »
We will score on Sunday. I guarantee it. They will score 2 more than us though.

4-2 is the result I have in my mind.
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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #11 on: November 1, 2012, 12:54:38 pm »
cheers Degs, nice piece, you should post more often about non-Ferrari related affairs ;D
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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #12 on: November 1, 2012, 01:02:39 pm »
Thats nice writeup man. Hoping for a win this time.
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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #13 on: November 1, 2012, 01:07:21 pm »
I'd actually be more confident if this was an away game lol

but we need to beat them

Offline T.Mills

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #14 on: November 1, 2012, 01:34:11 pm »
Good write up, its scary to think that in just a few transfer windows Newcastle have gone from relegation candidates to top 4 contenders, all without spunkin a shit load of cash in the process, crazy :o.

Got tickets for this so Sunday can't come soon enough ;D

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #15 on: November 1, 2012, 02:22:14 pm »
Will be one hell of a game this, really can't wait. Cannot see either side keeping a clean sheet and with Newcastle's fast attack our defence needs to be sharp for 90+mins!

All our big players really need to show up for this one. Can't decide who out of Sahin or Shelvey should start. Sahin will bring some calmness in the centre with Allen but Shelvey gives us fire going forward.
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Offline Noh

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #16 on: November 1, 2012, 02:41:39 pm »
having lots of regular matches makes me energetic personally . but  to be player's situation, i feel pity for them
how tired wil they be...............
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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #17 on: November 1, 2012, 02:46:04 pm »
We in bad weather this game we must win. After this we have Chelseaa. If we lose both I think storm is coming.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #18 on: November 1, 2012, 02:48:39 pm »
We in bad weather this game we must win. After this we have Chelseaa. If we lose both I think storm is coming.

Don't think Sandy is going anywhere near Anfield.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #19 on: November 1, 2012, 02:55:28 pm »
Don't think Sandy is going anywhere near Anfield.

If we continue results well gave erathquake.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #20 on: November 1, 2012, 02:59:31 pm »
Good OP, without having to harp on about the 4-3s unnecessarily!

Strange thing about Newcastle is that I can't remember the last time they gave us a game in Anfield. The last two seasons have been fairly facile romps, the year prior to that they were in the Championship (!!!!) and Rafa's teams beat them every year. You have to go back ages to find a Newcastle win.

Have to say... the Sunday 4pm game in winter under lights usually means our lads turn up - something about it being a big game always seems to make them play better, or at least, not get sucked into one of those eerily quiet, Groundhog-day Saturday 3pms (or untelevised Europa Sunday 3pms) where we go one up and concede or draw 0-0 and miss a billion chances.

I know that sounds like literally the stupidest logic you've ever heard... but it just seems like the big game focuses the mind at our club and the ones we feel like we should win are the anxious ones we rarely do. Hope the lads are up for it otherwise Ba and Cisse will give our wobbly defence a tough evening.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #21 on: November 1, 2012, 02:59:53 pm »
Big game for the midfield although individually stats may look good for me they have not offered enough protection to the defence & the creativity is very poor. I can see the Toon scoring a couple so hope Suarez continues his form to get us some much needed points.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #22 on: November 1, 2012, 03:00:39 pm »
Hopefully we can win this one as we really need to start finding some form i the league otherwise by the time we get to January we will be so far behind 4th it would become pointless even getting a striker in January.

I'd go

Reina
Johnson - Skrtel - Agger - Enrique
Allen - Sahin - Gerrard
Suso - Suarez - Sterling

I hate to break it to you... fourth is a pipe dream. Never happening this season as we are nowhere near ready and made a dreadful start to boot.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #23 on: November 1, 2012, 03:01:58 pm »
If we continue results well gave erathquake.

Yeah, it's definitely appropriate to compare a hurricane where 82 people have lost their lives to a football team losing a few games.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #24 on: November 1, 2012, 03:02:48 pm »
Crucial game this in my opinion. Need 3 points badly. We're off to Chelsea the week after where it'll be a huge shock if we get anything so dropped point here and we could be looking at the lower mid table after 11 games. Not good at all.
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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #25 on: November 1, 2012, 03:03:29 pm »
Yeah, it's definitely appropriate to compare a hurricane where 82 people have lost their lives to a football team losing a few games.

I said storm and earthquake. Some weirdo made connection to Sandy not me. Dont put words in my mouth or I will punish you. Ok?

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #26 on: November 1, 2012, 03:03:34 pm »
I hate to break it to you... fourth is a pipe dream. Never happening this season as we are nowhere near ready and made a dreadful start to boot.

Heard the same thing being said about Arsenal last season.

Not saying we'll get there, but it's not as big a pipe dream as some people make it out to be. Not much we can do about the officials making all the big calls against us though.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #27 on: November 1, 2012, 03:04:22 pm »
I said storm and earthquake. Some weirdo made connection to Sandy not me. Dont put words in my mouth or I will punish you. Ok?

What a strange man.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #28 on: November 1, 2012, 03:25:04 pm »
We have an unbelievably good record against them at Anfield.

It's almost as good as Mancs' record vs Spurs.....just hoping we won't see a similar shock like we saw at Old Trafford a few weeks ago.

Must win this game seeing that we'll be playing away at the Bridge, Liberty, and WHL in November.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #29 on: November 1, 2012, 04:28:05 pm »
Can't wait, I will be there with the missus who is attending her first Liverpool game...

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #30 on: November 1, 2012, 04:41:40 pm »
I'd take a point right now to be honest. Quite sad.

What's also sad is that if we don't get a result I think a lot of fans and the media will be calling for Brendan's head. The pressure will certainly be on.

Just think, when Kenny was in charge in his first half-season towards the end of it we played and beat Newcastle 3-0. It could have been 5 or more, and I can't remember a single chance they had. It was as comfortable a victory as you will ever see.

Fast forward about a year and a half, and most of us are expecting Newcastle to come and score, like the original OP says "the game is set up for both sides to score." Not only does it show how far Newcastle have come, but more than anything it shows how far we've fallen with failed transfer dealing being the primary culprit.
« Last Edit: November 1, 2012, 05:31:42 pm by BG Red »

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #31 on: November 1, 2012, 06:06:08 pm »
I hope we witness the much heralded improvement over the whole 110 yards rather than just the middle 70 because making 500 passes between the 2 boxes doesn't win football matches. That's a true fact that kids.
 Not holding my breath though, I'm expecting another miserable afternoon. But I've been wrong before....

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #32 on: November 1, 2012, 06:14:46 pm »
I think we will win this as I really believe our first eleven to be simply better.

Just hope we are not too tired and will be able to close down the center which is probably our biggest flaw in defending at the moment.

If we can do that we will win as we will definitely score one or two.
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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #33 on: November 1, 2012, 06:16:40 pm »
The way we playing at home at the moment? This is going to be a tough game. Id be happy with a draw.

We have a history of mullering Newcastle at home. Why be anything but confident?

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #34 on: November 1, 2012, 06:24:37 pm »
I think we will win this as I really believe our first eleven to be simply better.

Just hope we are not too tired and will be able to close down the center which is probably our biggest flaw in defending at the moment.

If we can do that we will win as we will definitely score one or two.

The game's not tonight mate it's on Sunday. Why would we be too tired?

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #35 on: November 1, 2012, 06:37:20 pm »
Well at least the bookies think we will win and they are never far wrong are they  ;)....Newcastle 11-2 in some places !

For what it's worth for however poor we were last night i think Newcastle is the perfect game for us to lift our spirits i honestly think they are overrated and every game i have seen them this season they have been poor.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #36 on: November 1, 2012, 06:40:45 pm »
They are overrated and it will be like Everton direct balls into the strikers we will have to deal with the second ball a lot better and deal with getting pressed high a lot better or it won't end well the post match thread will be about 40 pages long come 10pm.

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #37 on: November 1, 2012, 06:44:13 pm »
Demba Ba is a doubt for the game.
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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #38 on: November 1, 2012, 06:50:22 pm »
They're well set up and they can cause a lot of problems in attack. When they changed to 4-4-2 against Everton in the second half, they caused a lot of problems for Distin and Jagielka because of the threat of Cisse and Ba in the air and when they did that they could push the Everton backline deep, leaving more space between the lines for Ben Arfa. Newcastle are the type of team we might have problems because of their physical threat and aggression so it becomes even more important for us to retain the ball and maintain depth in attack so we can push them back and control the game. If we allow them to dominate we will struggle.
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Offline MolbyLovesGravlax

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Re: Preview: Liverpool v Newcastle, Sunday 4th November 16.00
« Reply #39 on: November 1, 2012, 07:02:53 pm »
Lets see if we can get a league win against any team but one with 'relegation fight' written all over them.
Can't say I am that hopeful. This smells like another 'be the better team but have to be content with a point' type affair.
Really hope I am wrong.
"This is Anfield, this is what they do." Thomas Tuchel

@dgljones