Topic: Our Supporters Need a Reality Check!

[Cafin]

For a while now, I have read a number of threads on various Liverpool forums where our supporters seem intent on attacking just about anyone who isnt considered untouchable. Only Dalglish seems to be the one who escapes criticism. Dalglish is no doubt a club legend but his time at the helm this time around was not a success. The incoming transfers of players who were never Liverpool quality at huge prices, is one of the huge issues that the club is dealing with today. It was not FSG's fault that tens of millions were wasted on players who weren't Liverpool standard.

Unfortunately for the supporters of the club worldwide, Liverpool FC is a private business, owned by professional businessmen - not by us as supporters, those businessmen are entitled to run it the way the want. They are entitled to make money from it, just like you or I if we ran our own business (would you like someone from outside telling you how to run your business?).

They dont have to do anything for us. They don't owe us anything. These people paid hundreds of million of dollars to buy Liverpool FC. When they bought the club, they got everything the club owned, including the rights to the players and the right to sell players. They also took on club debts.

They have been attacked because in this transfer window they havent recruited big names, so what? What has recruiting these supposed big names done for us over the past 20 years. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards and maybe an emphasis on developing our own is best for the club. I have read from some, that because we buy Liverpool shirts and merchandise we are entitled to a say. Unfortunately that's not how the world works in football. Today, the owners of the clubs own and run the clubs, us as supporters we are just customers. Thats a harsh expression, but its the truth.

They have also been attacked because they havent started building a new ground? Do people think its easy to pay a couple of hundred million to build a new ground? Our supporters seem to want to run the show because they are supporters, they howled and called for Dalglish and now that things have gone pear shaped they blame everyone bar those who spent the money on players who should be playing for mid table clubs.

I think we need to get behind and support the manager and the owners and the players. People who attack the manager or the owners or the players are doing the club injustice. In effect not helping anyone. I think in time the FSG model will work well at Liverpool FC.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

The wasted money under kenny has set us back. It was truly a fuck up. That's why we're not spending much now as we can't sign more while all these big signing sit on the bench on big wages.

[unknownuser]

Exactly my thinking, I believe FSG were more cautious with their spending this time around.
Perhaps that's why we were so eager on loan transfers rather than gambling and paying full for players such as Sturridge

[Cocomin]

You forgetting Kenny had to get rid of plenty of shit as well Poulsen,Konchesky,Jovanovic etc
He is not blameless but you know what he won us a trophy and was never given the chance to prove if the players he bought were any good just because Brendan doesn't want them it doesn't make them bad players does it?
He bought Suarez, Enrique, Coates, Hendo hardly shit players are they ? Why did you start a new thread slagging Kenny does it make you feel better ?
The reason people are pissed off with FSG is simple Brendan said we needed another striker in last week and we didn't get one he would not have said that in public if he didn't think he was getting the funds to do it, so lay off the Kenny bashing he did some good and bad things in the transfer market like most managers.

[Cafin]

I heard here on an Australian radio station that Fulham asked for more money from us for Dempsey than they were asking from the other clubs. if thats true then FSG had every right to pull out of any attempt to get Dempsey. Unfortunately the last 2 years Liverpool developed a reputation for being a soft touch in the transfer market.  If fulham asked more from us than they did from others then Fenway did the only thing they could and thats walk away.

[Cocomin]

The wasted money under kenny has set us back. It was truly a fuck up. That's why we're not spending much now as we can't sign more while all these big signing sit on the bench on big wages.

Which player that Kenny signed is sitting on the bench on big wages
Carra is on 100k a week that was Purslows dealings and Cole who Hodgson signed is on 115k and again that contract was Purslow so quit it with the Kenny bashing and look at the big picture.

[Cocomin]

Exactly my thinking, I believe FSG were more cautious with their spending this time around.
Perhaps that's why we were so eager on loan transfers rather than gambling and paying full for players such as Sturridge

More cautious as in leaving us with 2 senior strikers well done them epic owners.

[Cafin]

You forgetting Kenny had to get rid of plenty of shit as well Poulsen,Konchesky,Jovanovic etc
He is not blameless but you know what he won us a trophy and was never given the chance to prove if the players he bought were any good just because Brendan doesn't want them it doesn't make them bad players does it?
He bought Suarez, Enrique, Coates, Hendo hardly shit players are they ? Why did you start a new thread slagging Kenny does it make you feel better ?
The reason people are pissed off with FSG is simple Brendan said we needed another striker in last week and we didn't get one he would not have said that in public if he didn't think he was getting the funds to do it, so lay off the Kenny bashing he did some good and bad things in the transfer market like most managers.

Coates and Henderson are young players and Henderson was one of the players we over paid for. Suarez was a good buy but its the Carroll, Downing and Adam transfers that were the big problem IMHO. Certainly was NOT bashing a club legend but people need to keep a balance and alot of people just want to bash the owners AND not look at why we are where we are as a club. Dalglish will always be a legend no doubt about it.

[realtowz]

You forgetting Kenny had to get rid of plenty of shit as well Poulsen,Konchesky,Jovanovic etc
He is not blameless but you know what he won us a trophy and was never given the chance to prove if the players he bought were any good just because Brendan doesn't want them it doesn't make them bad players does it?
He bought Suarez, Enrique, Coates, Hendo hardly shit players are they ? Why did you start a new thread slagging Kenny does it make you feel better ?
The reason people are pissed off with FSG is simple Brendan said we needed another striker in last week and we didn't get one he would not have said that in public if he didn't think he was getting the funds to do it, so lay off the Kenny bashing he did some good and bad things in the transfer market like most managers.

It just amazes me how for some people Kenny is so immune to criticism...

He made some costly mistakes. Deal with it...

[Get]

The wasted money under kenny has set us back. It was truly a fuck up. That's why we're not spending much now as we can't sign more while all these big signing sit on the bench on big wages.

[hide5seek]

There model seems to be stab the manager in the back, besides they got us on the cheap and if there not interested in backing the man they hired then they should sell up imo. 

As for Kennys transfers, well Henderson will end a quality player, Suarez is a quality player. Carroll who knows as Rodgers has changed the system were plying but if wed stayed the same system he could well have been a star for us. Downing was a international and Conman paod ther price for all those players, he was sacked by spurs and guess which idiots hired him?

Oh also getting pissed off with so called supporters and there sly digs at Dalglish, we were 4 points from top 4 at feb and these owners who seem to want to do everything on the cheap wouldn't let him get cover for the loss of Lucas in Dec, who knows where wed be if they had.

[Cocomin]

Coates and Henderson are young players and Henderson was one of the players we over paid for. Suarez was a good buy but its the Carroll, Downing and Adam transfers that were the big problem IMHO.

Carroll cost FSG £15 million and he's still worth at least that, Downing hasn't performed but he is still getting a game for the first team and Adam was sold for a £2 million loss big deal how is that a big problem ? Where's the Meireles money from January that was never spent ?

[RedPat]

Henry has went from one end of the spectrum to the other,Downing,Henderson and Carroll all have a price FSG just paid obscene money for the trio,they have now gone the other way,it's bad business on their part that they couldn't get the Dempsey deal over the line,it could cost us dearly,are there any other decent strikers out there besides Owen who are free agents?

[unknownuser]

I heard here on an Australian radio station that Fulham asked for more money from us for Dempsey than they were asking from the other clubs. if thats true then FSG had every right to pull out of any attempt to get Dempsey. Unfortunately the last 2 years Liverpool developed a reputation for being a soft touch in the transfer market.  If fulham asked more from us than they did from others then Fenway did the only thing they could and thats walk away.

Fulham were just slightly peeved that we were allegedly "tapping" Dempsey. I am glad we didn't get him for the extra money though
I just wish we hadn't left everything till the last day, and had at least had the striker situation addressed.

Still keeping my fingers crossed..and praying Suarez, Borini, Yesil, Morgan and even Pacheco (given the chance) pops them in on a regular basis. 

[Cocomin]

There model seems to be stab the manager in the back, besides they got us on the cheap and if there not interested in backing the man they hired then they should sell up imo. 

As for Kennys transfers, well Henderson will end a quality player, Suarez is a quality player. Carroll who knows as Rodgers has changed the system were plying but if wed stayed the same system he could well have been a star for us. Downing was a international and Conman paod ther price for all those players, he was sacked by spurs and guess which idiots hired him?

Oh also getting pissed off with so called supporters and there sly digs at Dalglish, we were 4 points from top 4 at feb and these owners who seem to want to do everything on the cheap wouldn't let him get cover for the loss of Lucas in Dec, who knows where wed be if they had.

You and i both are wasting our time mate fuckin irks me no end so called fans slagging Kenny tho 

[Cocomin]

It just amazes me how for some people Kenny is so immune to criticism...

He made some costly mistakes. Deal with it...

I am dealing with it but to say Kenny is to blame for everything like the opening post implies is just wrong ok , did he sign Cole and give him 115k contract and we cannot move him on ? Hodgson bought Konchesky,Poulsen and Cole that is a bigger fuck up than anything Kenny did FSG never gave him a  proper chance to see how his players would have fitted in.
If Carroll scores 20 goals this season who you going to have a go at ?......answer the question.

[Cafin]

You and i both are wasting our time mate fuckin irks me no end so called fans slagging Kenny tho 

No one has slagged Kenny.

[hide5seek]

Oh anditwas Werner not the supporters who gobbed off we could challenge anyone for players, obviously he meant anyone who didnt have a pot to piss in. We can also see why its not important to challenge top 4 this season, lets see how long our top players stay after this season?

[Cafin]

I am dealing with it but to say Kenny is to blame for everything like the opening post implies is just wrong ok , did he sign Cole and give him 115k contract and we cannot move him on ? Hodgson bought Konchesky,Poulsen and Cole that is a bigger fuck up than anything Kenny did FSG never gave him a  proper chance to see how his players would have fitted in.
If Carroll scores 20 goals this season who you going to have a go at ?......answer the question.

This is a serious question - Did you read the opening post properly? Because your posting stuff like "Kenny is to blame for everything" and attributing that stuff to me which is just wrong and not the correct thing to do.

[RedPat]

Carroll cost FSG £15 million and he's still worth at least that, Downing hasn't performed but he is still getting a game for the first team and Adam was sold for a £2 million loss big deal how is that a big problem ? Where's the Meireles money from January that was never spent ?

No offence mate but Carroll cost 35 million,I don't buy the logic that the 50 million we got for Torres left us with 15 million after buying Carroll,We let ourselves be arse fucked by Ashley as Kenny was desperate for a striker,this panic buy is why we are where we are now.

[unknownuser]

I don't see how this is a criticism of Kenny either, he just picked the players he wanted, and no one is denying that the players he signed won't go on to shine in the future.

The problem is that we paid an awful lot of money for them (blame Comolli?) and they haven't lived up to their price tag (yet). Thus making our owners cautious over splurging cash.

That's my understanding anyways   

[finnansounderrated]

I said at the back end of last season that last years transfers would be a five year financial prison sentence.  This was not Dalglish's making. He put the list together. Comolli then like the complete utter amateur negotiator he was then offered triple the actual value.

Im pretty sure the LFC job will be Comolli's last in football.

[Cocomin]

No one has slagged Kenny.

You did you said his time at the helm was not succesfull well considering where we were when he took ever from Hodgson i think he was i loved my cup final day outs and will never forget them.
You're implying it's his fault we never got in a striker last night when it's obviously FSG to blame Tony Barrett even says that Brendan was raging and where is the Meireles money you still haven't answered that and did you forget that FSG hired Comolli or was that Kenny as well.

[john_mac]

Just a bit nuts really.

Regardless of Kenny, Comolli even Rafa, the club needs to be able compete if it wants to be able too move forwards. FSG have made noises consistently about being able to compete in the market, the manager was clearly led to believe he could do so but spent yesterday trying to persuade his own board of the need for players to compete.

The manager spent the Summer telling us for the need to get numbers in, instead he was persuaded to get people out of the door under the impression that it would allow us to bring in replacements, it did not.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9513723/Brendan-Rodgers-in-despair-as-Liverpools-owners-refuse-to-sanction-a-7-million-deal-for-Clint-Dempsey.html

No matter how you look at it or who you blame for it, the board did not support th manager in the way he believed he would be which has left him frustrated in the extreme. The nearest parallel would be Rafa with Hicks & Gillette, throw in the stadium dispute and the parallels become stark.

FSG got the club for a song, they chose a recruitment strategy and employed Comolli & Kenny to deliver on that strategy. That strategy included cutting salaries which they have been succesful in, increasing revenues which they tell us they have been succesful with, as well as a recruitment strategy which clearly has not been as succesful as they would have liked.

The issue for me is that they clearly did not appear to share the change with the manager, sent out to look like a soft c*nt on Wednesday pushing Carroll out of the door under the impression that he would be given the money to spend. He was left out on a limb.

Best thing we can do is pull together behind the manager and the playes at his disposal and clearly they will need the support from around the club because he will feel more than a little frustrated this morning.

The fans that will be there on Sunday, those that will travel to Sunderland and Berne will be far more important in this than any knobs on internet Forums, we need to get behind Brendan, it's clear he will need it.

[Cafin]

No offence mate but Carroll cost 35 million,I don't buy the logic that the 50 million we got for Torres left us with 15 million after buying Carroll,We let ourselves be arse fucked by Ashley as Kenny was desperate for a striker,this panic buy is why we are where we are now.

RedPat is 100% spot on. What alot of our supporters dont realise is that that 50 million belonged to FSG as Torres was an asset of Liverpool FC which FSG own. When they bought Liverpool they bought all the assets of the club. They've lost millions on these transfers and now as businessmen they are tyring to recoup some losses. As for this other stuff that they bought Liverpool on the cheap, good luck to them. Would anyone on this forum not like to buy a house or a business for a massive discount?

[Get]

I don't see how this is a criticism of Kenny either, he just picked the players he wanted, and no one is denying that the players he signed won't go on to shine in the future.

The problem is that we paid an awful lot of money for them (blame Comolli?) and they haven't lived up to their price tag (yet). Thus making our owners cautious over splurging cash.

That's my understanding anyways   

yeah Cause Kenny didn't knew the figures we are bidding for them. He went all British and it was doomed to fail from day one.

[Cocomin]

No offence mate but Carroll cost 35 million,I don't buy the logic that the 50 million we got for Torres left us with 15 million after buying Carroll,We let ourselves be arse fucked by Ashley as Kenny was desperate for a striker,this panic buy is why we are where we are now.

No offence taken but it's nett spend that FSG have to be taken to task for it's simply not enough  £21.4m spent net this window with more than that off annual wage bill is a disgrace quiet frankly and if you cannot see that then carry on.

[rob1408]

I think a lot of people underestimate our situation.  We're suffering because the club has been poorly run for years, it will take a couple of years to repair that damage, until then we're going to be treading water for a while.  The drastic cut in our wage bill won't benefit us straight away but over the course of a year.

We're a couple of years away from challenging the top four in my opinion, but at least we'll be doing it with a solid foundation.

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

Wondering if some of the same posters who registered after FSG bought the club, but didn't have time to post until Kenny was sacked and FSG were getting a ton of negative posts, but who then found the time to posts constantly, will suddenly pop up again if FSG senses opinion turning against them?

[hide5seek]

They got the club on the cheap Cafin and it was Werner who said we could challenge anyone for anyone player and its not there remit to fuck the supporters and anager up the arse.  I got work to go too which is far more important than chatting to an apologist  like you, perhaps you should phone Rodgers up and tell him mot to worry his bosses didnt just stab him in the back?

See you all laters.

[Cafin]

You did you said his time at the helm was not succesfull well considering where we were when he took ever from Hodgson i think he was i loved my cup final day outs and will never forget them.
You're implying it's his fault we never got in a striker last night when it's obviously FSG to blame Tony Barrett even says that Brendan was raging and where is the Meireles money you still haven't answered that and did you forget that FSG hired Comolli or was that Kenny as well.

You read to much into other people's posts and you try and read things that dont exist. I never said anywhere that it was Kennys fault that we didnt get in a striker last night. Where did you get that from? Seriously? Anyway I will answer your question about the Meireles money. I dont know where it is all I know is that Liverpool FC is a private business and they can do what they want with monies generated from player sales etc. The money belongs to the club (as a business) not the supporters IMHO.

[Get]

I think a lot of people underestimate our situation.  We're suffering because the club has been poorly run for years, it will take a couple of years to repair that damage, until then we're going to be treading water for a while.  The drastic cut in our wage bill won't benefit us straight away but over the course of a year.

We're a couple of years away from challenging the top four in my opinion, but at least we'll be doing it with a solid foundation.

That's the fucking problem with some of the supporters who fail to see the bigger picture and want instant success.

They think signing a new commercial deals instantly gives us 50m to spend each transfer window, They fail to see that as long as we have to pay for previous ownership fuck ups it doesn't matter how much we make, cause Joe Cole will sit on his 100k a week and stadium plans that were a PR stund just left a bill to pay.

[Cafin]

They got the club on the cheap Cafin and it was Werner who said we could challenge anyone for anyone player and its not there remit to fuck the supporters and anager up the arse.  I got work to go too which is far more important than chatting to an apologist  like you, perhaps you should phone Rodgers up and tell him mot to worry his bosses didnt just stab him in the back?

See you all laters.

That they got the club on the cheap is irrelevant. I wish I could have bought Liverpool for the same price, but Im just a working class boy.

[jimmyjr86]

FSG bought us and invested a hell of a lot last season. We finished 8th and the value of our players decreased.

We all agreed that the wage bill was too high for the players we had.

Now, even though the squad is small, bar Joe Cole, I think we have a decent balance now and a base to build on. If Rodgers was to leave tomorrow we would be in a better position (squad wise) than at the start of the window.

We are spending our own money here. not the banks. we have saved a hell of a lot of money for the coming season. If come next summer we are still skint then questions need to be asked. But in a world of FFP I think we're in a good position to build.

[KingAgger]

Sorry, but how many normal businesses do you know who have a loyal fanbase worldwide? That comparison is just horrible. Of cause the fans of LFC can claim somwhat ownership to LFC, at least to the history. This modern football thingy where you are supposed to behind the money-men at all costs, is just so anti-LFC, as it could be. Remember what Shankly said; "At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques". The owners have paid to aligned themselves with the history and identity of the club, - witch means, - they paid to be a part of us, not the other way around. But dont get me wrong, im here saying we should be aganist the owners just fore the sake of it, but I do belive we should allways have a healthy doubt, towards any owners, - history taken into account. On this day, I think we are all allowed to demand some answers. Why telling the whole world, that we can compete with any club in the world, - when the facts remains that we cannot, and we are now short of a striker. Why let Big Andy go out on loan, when the manager clearly have stated, that he woud be a nutcase, by doing so, if there were no-one lined up to replace him? Is that a spoiled demand? I dont think so at all, to be fair.

[Cocomin]

So every respected journo , pundit etc in the land are saying that FSG haven't backed the manager and yet some on here reckon they are doing a great job i'm sorry but they really are not.
Where is the new stadium they said that was the most important thing when they bought the club well that's 2 years in and i don't see a thing about it.
Ian Ayre as C.E.O really ?
The only difference i see here is that it wasn't a leveraged buyout if i'm wrong i will be delighted trust me but this last 6 months has curbed my FSG enthusiasm i'm afraid.....anyway i hope we win on sunday against the Arse onwards and upwards.

[john_mac]

That they got the club on the cheap is irrelevant. I wish I could have bought Liverpool for the same price, but Im just a working class boy.

Think you are a bit of a tit myself, but that's life isn't it. Get on with spouting shite you know nothing about.

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

The Meireles money was spent on paying off DC and Kenny and hiring Rodgers and his staff from Swansea.

[TheBazz]

I heard here on an Australian radio station that Fulham asked for more money from us for Dempsey than they were asking from the other clubs. if thats true then FSG had every right to pull out of any attempt to get Dempsey. Unfortunately the last 2 years Liverpool developed a reputation for being a soft touch in the transfer market.  If fulham asked more from us than they did from others then Fenway did the only thing they could and thats walk away.

Makes sense, we did spend OTT last transfer out of desperation on the last day, makes sense for them to demand stupidly high prices on the last day today and hope we fall for that shit again.

[Pistolero]

Twat of a thread.