Author Topic: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )  (Read 26039 times)

Online hugoboss

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #640 on: August 3, 2012, 12:22:57 PM »
Just to refer and add to my post above, that our problem was in CM.

To get balls forward, Gerrard dropped deep. It meant longer balls forward and wasn't a great success. So we put Lucas on and all of a sudden Gerrard no longer had to drop deep. And this improved the way we played.
I think we'd be better served if Gerrard stayed upfront in the first half and demanded players like Henderson and Spearing give him the ball they're both good passers just lacking in experience and need their captain to show a bot more belief in them rather than make them feel inadequate
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Online hugoboss

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #641 on: August 3, 2012, 12:26:36 PM »
Exactly. And by the way im not adverse to Rodgers, i just think that the excuses are off the menu now seeing as Fenway have made their bed. Of course i hope he succeeds but we need to be better than last night and id expect better.
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Offline -Q-

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #642 on: August 3, 2012, 12:27:11 PM »
Not sure about that. You could see a change in the way players were trying to play but with Gerrard, he did his usual "Byran Robson" "David Beckham" "Me me me" game.

Interesting that we never see any negative comments from the players about him. By the way it was kinda a pre-season game and our team looked that way, give them  time. Once we have the first team together and play a few games it will be a better time to see what has changed and how. For once try to stop posting  the nasty stuff and just enjoy...your day may be nicer :)
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Offline Joga

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #643 on: August 3, 2012, 12:29:20 PM »
Exactly. And by the way im not adverse to Rodgers, i just think that the excuses are off the menu now seeing as Fenway have made their bed. Of course i hope he succeeds but we need to be better than last night and id expect better.

Quite ironic given a lot of the "pasting" Kenny received last year on here was in a lengthy thread you yourself started.
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Offline Mr Rossi

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #644 on: August 3, 2012, 12:30:49 PM »
Exactly. And by the way im not adverse to Rodgers, i just think that the excuses are off the menu now seeing as Fenway have made their bed. Of course i hope he succeeds but we need to be better than last night and id expect better.

That was our first competitive match against a team that was ten times fitter and halfway through their season. We won the game, kept a clean sheet, nobody was injured and thats about all that should be read from this game at this stage of the season. It was nothing more then a high-intensity pre-season friendly which will do the team a world of good.

You continue to use it as an excuse to have a good moan though, if thats what suits yeah.
« Last Edit: August 3, 2012, 12:32:20 PM by Mr Rossi »
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Offline The Grinch

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #645 on: August 3, 2012, 12:31:05 PM »
This is right. Pre-season lack of fitness aside our biggest problem was at the back where Skrtel, Carragher, Spearing and Jones (essentially the 'back 4' in a Rodgers system) were very slow on the ball. Their movement was either non-existent or cautious, they underhit passes to each other (on a poor pitch) and not one of them had the courage to go for the gaps that Gomel left for us.

Carragher, predictably, was the biggest culprit. He fulfilled his manager's instructions by taking up a left back position when Jones had the ball but because he can't move with the ball at his feet it meant that Liverpool's attacks, ironically, were starting deeper than ever. Everyone had to retreat 10 yards and Gerrard especially got sucked back as he is always prone to do anyway.

Gomel caught on to what was happening and in the second half their black forward began to stand on Carragher's 'right foot' and try and force him to move with the ball up the left flank. Had it been Agger in that situation he'd have stolen 20 yards in a blink of an eye but Carragher remained stuck in the porridge of his own making. He retreated even further back to his own goalline. He could no longer do his trademark trundling square passes to Skrtel (or, in this system, Spearing) and so sent the ball back to Jones every time for the hoof. Horrible to watch.

A word on Spearing in this system. It won't work. Leon Brittain made it work because he turns sharply, doesn't need as many touches as Spearing and genuinely shows for the ball from his full backs. Spearing turns slowly, needs too many touches, and hides from his full backs. We have Lucas so I'm not overly concerned about that.

But the player we really need is Agger. (And Pepe back) There'll be little improvement if Carragher and Skrtel are expected to start the ball rolling. 

Couldn't disagree with a word of that Yorky.

There is no magic coaching that is going to suddenly change us into a team that can dominate possession you need to have the basics, good technique, confidence in your ability and a football brain but most of all you need the courage to accept that you are going to make mistakes occasionally. We have too many players whose game is all about minimising the chances of being caught in possession.

Agger players the game like a matador he shows the opposition the ball puffs out his chest and says I have total confidence in my ability so come and get it, before they know it he has feinted to pass it dropped his shoulder and is twenty yards up the pitch with their whole team back tracking, with midfield coming to challenge him and the numerical advantage the defending team has neutralised.

Lucas is the same if a pass is on he gives it hard and early and lets the ball do the work if not he holds onto the ball a split second longer than the likes of Spearing, Henderson and Gerrard and draws a player in before releasing the ball with pace and accuracy. it's all about playing at different tempos and dictating the tempo. English players want to play at the same tempo regardless of the situation, they need an extra touch, to get their head up have a look and then shift it slowly as soon as someone comes near them.

Last night was like watching an England team playing the passing wasn't quick enough to penetrate and we didn't look to tempt teams with the ball and draw people out of position. As a nation we simply do not produce players who can dictate the tempo of a game from the middle of the pitch, you look at the hundreds of millions that have gone into the English academies over the last decade and look at the the GB team at the Olympics with two welshmen Allen and Ramsey pulling the strings in midfield.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #646 on: August 3, 2012, 12:33:18 PM »
That was hard work, watching it i mean. I'm finding it really hard to get enthused about a game when i see players like Carragher, Spearing, Downing, Cole and Henderson all starting. Carra is so detrimental it's untrue, receiving the ball in loads of space only to freeze on the spot and play  horribly hit passes to the full backs or Skrtel, who would have players closer to them than Carra would. Cringing to say the least.

Whilst Spearing has just  looked woefully out of his depth for months now. Is Rodgers persevering hoping he unearths something or is it simply a case of us getting through this pre-season? Have to hope it's the latter.

Henderson done the only impression of a central-midfielder i've seen him give in a Liverppol shirt. Not a very good one, and not a natural in any sense. He's mobile and has some technical ability. But upstairs he's another Downing, which is to say plays like a big girls blouse, and is a bit dense with his movement. He has a long way to go. Allen is an absolutely critical signing for us.
« Last Edit: August 3, 2012, 12:36:04 PM by Bob Loblaw »

Offline Mr Rossi

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #647 on: August 3, 2012, 12:33:52 PM »
Some embarrassing shit being posted in here. God help us when the new season starts.
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Offline The Grinch

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #648 on: August 3, 2012, 12:38:57 PM »
That was our first competitive match against a team that was ten times fitter and halfway through their season. We won the game, kept a clean sheet, nobody was injured and thats about all that should be read from this game at this stage of the season. It was nothing more then a high-intensity pre-season friendly which will do the team a world of good.

You continue to use it as an excuse to have a good moan though, if thats what suits yeah.

That sounds like the excuses being made for Hodgson's England during the group stages of the Euro's. It wasn't the fitness that was the issue last night it was the gulf in game intelligence that was worrying. Over and over again we made the wrong decision when in possession, we took extra touches and we had players who made the ball look like a ticking bomb. Rodgers philosophy is all about controlling the tempo of a game and resting on the ball, Jan Molby had trouble running twenty yards but could control the tempo of a game at will Alonso was the same. Watch Molby in Masters Football and even when he was grossly overweight and could barely move he would draw players in and take them out of the game, fitness isn't the problem. 
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #649 on: August 3, 2012, 12:41:13 PM »
You know what we and Chelsea have in common?

blahblahblah...

Stupid...boring...nonsense. Rafa was sacked because the former idiotic owners. They did not listen to the players...they had their own megalomaniac agendas. Hodgson was sacked because he was out of his depth. He lasted much longer than he deserved. Kenny was sacked because our season was really poor and the new owners have a plan. Is it a good plan? Do they know what they are doing? Are they well advised? This we don't know, but your stupid conspiracy theories give too much credit (as evil puppet-masters) to two local players who you judge and accuse for being dedicated to the club. It really is disrespectful to all those managers to claim they are not capable to make their own choices just because you disagree with them.
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Online peachybum

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #650 on: August 3, 2012, 12:45:38 PM »
That sounds like the excuses being made for Hodgson's England during the group stages of the Euro's. It wasn't the fitness that was the issue last night it was the gulf in game intelligence that was worrying. Over and over again we made the wrong decision when in possession, we took extra touches and we had players who made the ball look like a ticking bomb. Rodgers philosophy is all about controlling the tempo of a game and resting on the ball, Jan Molby had trouble running twenty yards but could control the tempo of a game at will Alonso was the same. Watch Molby in Masters Football and even when he was grossly overweight and could barely move he would draw players in and take them out of the game, fitness isn't the problem.

Yes it was. Not having enough movement off the ball to allow quick short passing was down to lack of match fitness. Taking to long on the ball(especially Johnson, Gerrard and other who's preseason was less than 45mins) was down to lack of match fitness. Lack of mental focus/correct decision making/sharpness is down to lack of match fitness.

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #651 on: August 3, 2012, 12:46:29 PM »
I think we'd be better served if Gerrard stayed upfront in the first half and demanded players like Henderson and Spearing give him the ball they're both good passers just lacking in experience and need their captain to show a bot more belief in them rather than make them feel inadequate

Could be. It looked strange to me in the first half when Henderson played in the more advanced CM position. I don't like him in that role. Generally, I think Gerrard is too eager to get things going (and therefore he shouldn't play deep), while Henderson finds it easy to be patient and play the ball on, but he's not quite the player to make things happen.

I can sort of see why Gerrard dropped deeper to collect the ball. Must be frustrating not to be involved. So he tried, but we also saw those longer balls for Borini that really just gave the ball away.

If I expand on that and include what we saw last season too, we become dependent on Lucas. It's not just defensive stability, it's also how we play ourselves. I like Henderson more and more, but IMO he's not able to dictate games or influence games enough. He (still) needs someone else to do it and then he can play beside that player. Spearing is the same. IMO this makes them backup players. Maybe promising players for the future, but still backups. And we have too many of those. Which is why I think we need to sign another, more dominant type of CM and we need to part with a few of the CMs we have. It's one of the easiest upgrades (after out attack) that this team can make. And given our dependence on Lucas, it's quite a necessary one too.

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Offline The Grinch

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #652 on: August 3, 2012, 12:48:14 PM »
Stupid...boring...nonsense. Rafa was sacked because the former idiotic owners. They did not listen to the players...they had their own megalomaniac agendas. Hodgson was sacked because he was out of his depth. He lasted much longer than he deserved. Kenny was sacked because our season was really poor and the new owners have a plan. Is it a good plan? Do they know what they are doing? Are they well advised? This we don't know, but your stupid conspiracy theories give too much credit (as evil puppet-masters) to two local players who you judge and accuse for being dedicated to the club. It really is disrespectful to all those managers to claim they are not capable to make their own choices just because you disagree with them.

That's bollocks mate Hicks and Gillet didn't sack Benitez, Broughton and Purslow did. You can ignore it as much as you want but that has been a clear agenda since 2010 to make the Club more English. What we saw last night was the fruition of that agenda, we started with 7 English players last night and played like England. The last time we started with that many English players was the drubbing at Newcastle last season, compare that to the Fulham 5-2 away game when we had Lucas, Maxi, Meireles, Kuyt and Suarez playing with movement and intelligence, the difference is like night and day.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Mr Rossi

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #653 on: August 3, 2012, 12:48:34 PM »
That sounds like the excuses being made for Hodgson's England during the group stages of the Euro's. It wasn't the fitness that was the issue last night it was the gulf in game intelligence that was worrying. Over and over again we made the wrong decision when in possession, we took extra touches and we had players who made the ball look like a ticking bomb. Rodgers philosophy is all about controlling the tempo of a game and resting on the ball, Jan Molby had trouble running twenty yards but could control the tempo of a game at will Alonso was the same. Watch Molby in Masters Football and even when he was grossly overweight and could barely move he would draw players in and take them out of the game, fitness isn't the problem. 

Its not an excuse. Clearly we have some players that will never suit BR approach to the game but, as Didi put it last night, in order to play the style of football Brendan wants us to play you have to be at your absolute peak, to be sharper and quicker to the ball, to be able to close down the opposition and to have the energy to move into space to receive the ball. That was the main problem last night, the fitness wasn't even anywhere near close enough, add to the fact we came up against a side midway through their season on a really heavy pitch. Because of that we were always goin to struggle playing that type of football and thats why we should't read too much into this game.
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Offline Mr Rossi

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #654 on: August 3, 2012, 12:51:25 PM »
Yes it was. Not having enough movement off the ball to allow quick short passing was down to lack of match fitness. Taking to long on the ball(especially Johnson, Gerrard and other who's preseason was less than 45mins) was down to lack of match fitness. Lack of mental focus/correct decision making/sharpness is down to lack of match fitness.

Exactly. Clearly there are players in that team that wont be good enough or wont fit into the system, but the main reason for last nights performance was fitness and mental sharpness.
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Offline The Grinch

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #655 on: August 3, 2012, 12:55:51 PM »
Yes it was. Not having enough movement off the ball to allow quick short passing was down to lack of match fitness. Taking to long on the ball(especially Johnson, Gerrard and other who's preseason was less than 45mins) was down to lack of match fitness. Lack of mental focus/correct decision making/sharpness is down to lack of match fitness.

What was the excuse last season after Xmas when that midfield trio of Spearing, Gerrard and Henderson let us down time and time again. The less energy you have the more you treasure the ball and look to keep it, English players don't they take the easy way out time and time again.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline kkjellquist

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #656 on: August 3, 2012, 01:02:03 PM »
This thread confirms I am not visiting any fucking match thread unless it's a 4-0 win!!  FFS...FIRST FUCKING GAME IN CHARGE!!!!!!

The team was rusty because they are actually trying to adapt to a new system.  At any point the could have reverted to a 4-4-2 and probably looked more at ease, but that's not where our future lies.  It's like trying to write with your left hand.  It looks horrible at first, but you can do it, and as time passes you get better and better!! 
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Offline The Grinch

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #657 on: August 3, 2012, 01:02:14 PM »
Its not an excuse. Clearly we have some players that will never suit BR approach to the game but, as Didi put it last night, in order to play the style of football Brendan wants us to play you have to be at your absolute peak, to be sharper and quicker to the ball, to be able to close down the opposition and to have the energy to move into space to receive the ball. That was the main problem last night, the fitness wasn't even anywhere near close enough, add to the fact we came up against a side midway through their season on a really heavy pitch. Because of that we were always goin to struggle playing that type of football and thats why we should't read too much into this game.


To be honest that is rubbish mate Spain where absolutely shattered at times during the Euro's the whole team was running on empty and was in a terrible physical state, what did they do they kept the ball for fun. If you haven't got the energy you rest on the ball work the other team and bring them down to your level of fitness.

It is a continual excuse made by English players that they can't keep the ball because they are tired, the reason they are tired is because they spend most of their careers chasing the bloody thing. If you are tired you knock the ball around at the back work the opposition and pass through the gaps.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Mr Rossi

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #658 on: August 3, 2012, 01:02:29 PM »
What was the excuse last season after Xmas when that midfield trio of Spearing, Gerrard and Henderson let us down time and time again. The less energy you have the more you treasure the ball and look to keep it, English players don't they take the easy way out time and time again.
You cant compare the two. That was halfway through the season under a different manager. Last night was our first competitive game under the new manager, were some of our players only had 45 mins of pre-season training under their belts.

As for english players taking the easy way out time and time again, didn't you watch Swansea last season? They are a team comprised of english, welsh and other british players alond with some foreigners and I didn't see them taking the easy way out too often.
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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #659 on: August 3, 2012, 01:05:40 PM »
Could be. It looked strange to me in the first half when Henderson played in the more advanced CM position. I don't like him in that role. Generally, I think Gerrard is too eager to get things going (and therefore he shouldn't play deep), while Henderson finds it easy to be patient and play the ball on, but he's not quite the player to make things happen.

I can sort of see why Gerrard dropped deeper to collect the ball. Must be frustrating not to be involved. So he tried, but we also saw those longer balls for Borini that really just gave the ball away.

If I expand on that and include what we saw last season too, we become dependent on Lucas. It's not just defensive stability, it's also how we play ourselves. I like Henderson more and more, but IMO he's not able to dictate games or influence games enough. He (still) needs someone else to do it and then he can play beside that player. Spearing is the same. IMO this makes them backup players. Maybe promising players for the future, but still backups. And we have too many of those. Which is why I think we need to sign another, more dominant type of CM and we need to part with a few of the CMs we have. It's one of the easiest upgrades (after out attack) that this team can make. And given our dependence on Lucas, it's quite a necessary one too.
Quite right, we need more dominate CMs, which is one of the reasons I feel Jonjo should go on loan, he has that thing about him where he can boss a game and run the midfield but he needs first team experience to know how to make the right decisions during a game.

I think Henderson would be the best understudy for Lucas if he can work on his positioning and tackling and I think he will score a good number of goals from that position if given the chance
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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #660 on: August 3, 2012, 01:09:39 PM »
2008/09 was Rafa's 6th season.

???

I take it you mean his 6th season as a manager? Because Rafa joined us at the start of the 2004/2005 season.

5th season, sorry; the point stands.

Rodgers has had one game and doesn't even have the inherited players up to speed or all of them available, let alone have his own squad together. You can't compare Rodgers' first game in charge to Rafa's 5th season here.

(PS. It was hardly his 6th season as a manger was it. It was about his 15th.)

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #661 on: August 3, 2012, 01:11:20 PM »
To be honest that is rubbish mate Spain where absolutely shattered at times during the Euro's the whole team was running on empty and was in a terrible physical state, what did they do they kept the ball for fun. If you haven't got the energy you rest on the ball work the other team and bring them down to your level of fitness.

It is a continual excuse made by English players that they can't keep the ball because they are tired, the reason they are tired is because they spend most of their careers chasing the bloody thing. If you are tired you knock the ball around at the back work the opposition and pass through the gaps.


Al, if you dont understand the difference of a teams fitness levels at the end of a season entering a major tournament and a team thats had a couple of weeks break and are in the middle of pre-season training then I cant help you.

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #662 on: August 3, 2012, 01:11:54 PM »
???

I take it you mean his 6th season as a manager? Because Rafa joined us at the start of the 2004/2005 season.


5th season, sorry; the point stands.

Rodgers has had one game and doesn't even have the inherited players up to speed or all of them available, let alone have his own squad together. You can't compare Rodgers' first game in charge to Rafa's 5th season here.

(PS. It was hardly his 6th season as a manger was it. It was about his 15th.)

I agree.
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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #663 on: August 3, 2012, 01:17:26 PM »
You cant compare the two. That was halfway through the season under a different manager. Last night was our first competitive game under the new manager, were some of our players only had 45 mins of pre-season training under their belts.

As for english players taking the easy way out time and time again, didn't you watch Swansea last season? They are a team comprised of english, welsh and other british players alond with some foreigners and I didn't see them taking the easy way out too often.

Rodgers took over a Swansea side who played that way under Martinez, he had a small squad, he had one game a week and he brought in players who were already used to playing a controlled attacking game. Borini, Sinclair and McChrachan from Chelsea, Dyer from Southampton, Sigurdsson from Reading. He had time on the training pitch to blend a one group of players used to playing under Martinez with a group of players used to playing at Clubs who dominated possession.

At Liverpool he has a group of players brought through playing under the likes of Houllier and Hodgson, he will be playing two games a week, will have players away on International duty and will be restricted to a couple of proper training sessions a week. pre-season is the time you establish your pattern of play because trying to do it during a season is like a golfer attempting to remodel his swing during the open.

We should be looking to bring through the kids who have come through the Academy and the reserves and who are used to playing possession football, keeping our best technical players and recruiting players who have played at big Clubs were they were expected to retain possession. Instead we are playing teh players who have continually let down Liverpool and England and who have very little game intelligence.

Playing Joe Cole instead of Pacheco, Suso, Aquilani or Maxi is embarrassing and shows the way we are heading. The best you could say about last night's team is that Mrs Carragher would of had no problem talking to the players wives and girlfriends.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline walshys_mullet

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #664 on: August 3, 2012, 01:17:38 PM »
Disgraceful



like last year then, no? or is it not ok now?
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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #665 on: August 3, 2012, 01:18:56 PM »
Quite ironic given a lot of the "pasting" Kenny received last year on here was in a lengthy thread you yourself started.

Difference was i wasnt giving him a pasting, i was talking about where things might be going wrong and why the results wernt going for us. Big difference.
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Offline apocalypse

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #666 on: August 3, 2012, 01:19:51 PM »
No amount of fitness can turn any of those midfielders into what was missing in that position yesterday. Hope Allen is as good as you all make him out to be.

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #667 on: August 3, 2012, 01:22:22 PM »

Al, if you dont understand the difference of a teams fitness levels at the end of a season entering a major tournament and a team thats had a couple of weeks break and are in the middle of pre-season training then I cant help you.



I am looking forward to that glorious fortnights purple patch during the season when the English players are neither too rusty or too tired. I reckon that English purple patch will last about as long as a typical English summer. Fitness does not stop you passing the ball quickly ten yards to a team mate. Next you will be telling me the reason for slow under hit passes was the players calf muscles being out of condition.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #668 on: August 3, 2012, 01:24:08 PM »
I am looking forward to that glorious fortnights purple patch during the season when the English players are neither too rusty or too tired. I reckon that English purple patch will last about as long as a typical English summer. Fitness does not stop you passing the ball quickly ten yards to a team mate. Next you will be telling me the reason for slow under hit passes was the players calf muscles being out of condition.

Wasting your time mate. Those same players were shite last season, but last night its because its a new 'system' of play. What do i know?
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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #669 on: August 3, 2012, 01:26:21 PM »
Quite right, we need more dominate CMs, which is one of the reasons I feel Jonjo should go on loan, he has that thing about him where he can boss a game and run the midfield but he needs first team experience to know how to make the right decisions during a game.

I think Henderson would be the best understudy for Lucas if he can work on his positioning and tackling and I think he will score a good number of goals from that position if given the chance

Like Shelvey too and I agree on the loan thing. He needs to play as many games as possible. What I come back to all the time in CM is that we need Lucas and Gerrard, we need another top quality CM and there's potential in Henderson and Shelvey, where both need to play a fair few games. That's really it. We have those five who need to get games and where most should be able to play many, many games. This leave very little room for extra CMs. The natural thing would therefore be to add that high quality CM and if the need arises, we turn to for example Suso or another Academy player. Will be less than 5 games that it's needed. But Aquilani, Adam and Spearing have no real role to fill.

Another thing from yesterday's game that I noted - we're short of options down the flanks, but we're also short of options who cut inside. Downing did that for the goal, but I don't think we have the player who, like Maxi, can work his way inside and act as a 2nd striker now and then. To help the main striker. If that's how we want to play (with the LM/RM going wide), we desperately need Gerrard in the more advanced CM role. Or we will have just one threat, one player in the box.

I'd assume that an attacking midfielder a la Maxi is very high on Rodgers' list of transfer targets. More so than a high quality traditional winger.

          * * * * *


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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #670 on: August 3, 2012, 01:26:58 PM »
This thread is a fucking joke. People saying they'd "expect better". If we don't get any better than that then yes of course thats not good enough. But in our first competetive game, under a new manager, who has worked with the players for 5 minutes, some of whom only came back from Euros duty a fortnight ago, trying to impliment a new philosophy, is that going to happen overnight? FFS  :no
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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #671 on: August 3, 2012, 01:33:17 PM »
Wasting your time mate. Those same players were shite last season, but last night its because its a new 'system' of play. What do i know?

You're a moaner.  One of the most pessimistic posters here. Even during our glory times in the CL under Rafa, there was always a moan from you.

This though is stretching it. 4th game under a new manager.

Feel for people like you.

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #672 on: August 3, 2012, 01:34:01 PM »

Al, if you dont understand the difference of a teams fitness levels at the end of a season entering a major tournament and a team thats had a couple of weeks break and are in the middle of pre-season training then I cant help you.



Henderson, Spearing, Cole, Gerrard, Downing and Borini were our starting 6 up front..

On a truly competitive level, Gerrard is the only one that has proven international class... He is not however the prime example of a midfield maestro controlling the game.. The other 5 could be trained for Ironman, but not really the players I'd put my money on..
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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #673 on: August 3, 2012, 01:34:34 PM »
Rodgers took over a Swansea side who played that way under Martinez, he had a small squad, he had one game a week and he brought in players who were already used to playing a controlled attacking game. Borini, Sinclair and McChrachan from Chelsea, Dyer from Southampton, Sigurdsson from Reading. He had time on the training pitch to blend a one group of players used to playing under Martinez with a group of players used to playing at Clubs who dominated possession.

At Liverpool he has a group of players brought through playing under the likes of Houllier and Hodgson, he will be playing two games a week, will have players away on International duty and will be restricted to a couple of proper training sessions a week. pre-season is the time you establish your pattern of play because trying to do it during a season is like a golfer attempting to remodel his swing during the open.

We should be looking to bring through the kids who have come through the Academy and the reserves and who are used to playing possession football, keeping our best technical players and recruiting players who have played at big Clubs were they were expected to retain possession. Instead we are playing teh players who have continually let down Liverpool and England and who have very little game intelligence.

Playing Joe Cole instead of Pacheco, Suso, Aquilani or Maxi is embarrassing and shows the way we are heading. The best you could say about last night's team is that Mrs Carragher would of had no problem talking to the players wives and girlfriends.

Look Al, if this was halfway through the season and he was continuing to ignore the youngsters you may have a point, but its not. It was our first competitive game against a team ten times fitter then us, with us playing players who only had 45 pre-season training under their belts. Thats why not you or anybody else should be reading into this game as much as your doing.
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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #674 on: August 3, 2012, 01:35:04 PM »
It was Brendan's first real game in charge and too much bitching and moaning should be left aside for this one at least.

I was at the Hajduk-Inter game last night so obviously didn't watch us but from what I can read here we were terrible and Gomel bossed the game and missed lots of chances.

Now, I don't want to bitch and moan much(as I stated before) but what does my head in are the constant excuses from fans. "it's early days", "match fitness", "Gomel are already in competitive form" etc.....

Now I can relate that to last night's Hajduk-Inter game. It's the same situation for Inter, It's early days, they're not match fit, Hajduk is in competitive form AND the crowd last night was beyond brilliant....  BUT Inter is Inter and they won 0-3 comfortably.

Hajduk is a better and bigger club than Gomel is, with all due respect, the crowd as I stated was boss but Inter still didin't allow itself to be bossed by Hajduk, quite the contrary.
« Last Edit: August 3, 2012, 01:36:56 PM by firing squad »
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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #675 on: August 3, 2012, 01:36:41 PM »
I am looking forward to that glorious fortnights purple patch during the season when the English players are neither too rusty or too tired. I reckon that English purple patch will last about as long as a typical English summer. Fitness does not stop you passing the ball quickly ten yards to a team mate. Next you will be telling me the reason for slow under hit passes was the players calf muscles being out of condition.

Al 555, I'd agree we have a fair few players who are average. It's not too hard to identify them. But in fairness, yesterday was the first competitive game. It's still pre-season and we have a new manager. You'd expect us to be rusty. Happens every year. We'll still have to make those player changes, or we'll struggle this season. Right now we're relying on Cole, Downing, Bellamy and Sterling for the flanks. We need something like 20 goals from them and I would lie if I said I felt confident they'll deliver that. We obviously need to improve. But it was the first game and if we're a bit off in fitness and sharpness, well, naturally so.

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Offline Mr Rossi

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #676 on: August 3, 2012, 01:38:03 PM »
Henderson, Spearing, Cole, Gerrard, Downing and Borini were our starting 6 up front..

On a truly competitive level, Gerrard is the only one that has proven international class... He is not however the prime example of a midfield maestro controlling the game.. The other 5 could be trained for Ironman, but not really the players I'd put my money on..

Im not arguing the quality of the players, im saying people shouldn't be reading too much into last nights game due to lack of fitness from the players. Its as simple as that.
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Offline matt120979

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #677 on: August 3, 2012, 01:40:11 PM »
First competetive game for the new manager - at an east european backwater against a club 15 games into their domestic season - the biggest match in their club's history.
New system.
Players returning from internationals and only just into preseason.
Only one major signing made at this stage.
No injuries.
Clean sheet.
A goal for Downing... well in lad.
A win.
More senior players to return, more fitness to come, more time to assimilate the new manager's methods.

Well done Brendan Rodgers, I hope this is the first win on many.
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Offline Mr Rossi

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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #678 on: August 3, 2012, 01:41:27 PM »
You're a moaner.  One of the most pessimistic posters here. Even during our glory times in the CL under Rafa, there was always a moan from you.

This though is stretching it. 4th game under a new manager.

Feel for people like you.


This is true Walshy, you do love a good moan. You moaned about Rafas team, Roys team(understandable), Kennys team and you've already started moaning about Brendans team. Moan, moan, moan, it's all you seem to do.
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Re: FC Gomel 0 - 1 Liverpool (Downing 67 mins )
« Reply #679 on: August 3, 2012, 01:42:09 PM »
First competetive game for the new manager - at an east european backwater against a club 15 games into their domestic season - the biggest match in their club's history.
New system.
Players returning from internationals and only just into preseason.
Only one major signing made at this stage.
No injuries.
Clean sheet.
A goal for Downing... well in lad.
A win.
More senior players to return, more fitness to come, more time to assimilate the new manager's methods.

Well done Brendan Rodgers, I hope this is the first win on many.

I wish everyone would see it that way.
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