Author Topic: I'm really genuinely concerned...no rant intended (Read 40523 times)

Melbred · « **Reply #40 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:05:13 PM »

Quote from: geoffstrong on July 31, 2012, 01:03:41 PM

As always they will still support the team on the pitch like before when we had the wrong owners followed by the wrong manager!

So we've already decided we've got the wrong owners and the wrong manager now have we?

scatman · « **Reply #41 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:06:39 PM »

Quote from: Kage on July 31, 2012, 12:58:26 PM

Agree with most of the OP. Worried about the direction in which we are headed. Mediocrity. Even many of our own fans now accept it. Head over to the transfer forum and every few posts you read "we can't offer this, we are not attractive that". Acceptance of mediocrity in droves.

been like that since summer 2010, nothing new.

Matt8Pie · « **Reply #42 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:07:11 PM »

Quote from: Melbred on July 31, 2012, 01:05:13 PM

So we've already decided we've got the wrong owners and the wrong manager now have we?

I think you should reread what he said...

redk84 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:09:11 PM »

The club is at a crossroads and its natural to feel concerned by all that has been going on recently.

After everything the club has been through on and off the field over the last 4 years especially, the first instinct is always going to be to worry. We have been conditioned that way unfortunately...

nothing we can do but sit tight and see how it pans out.

Be patient and hope...

geoffstrong · « **Reply #44 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:10:17 PM »

Quote from: Melbred on July 31, 2012, 01:05:13 PM

So we've already decided we've got the wrong owners and the wrong manager now have we?

is that what i said or what you hope i said ?

talking about the past not the present , but you suggested a scenario I used the past to answer it, ok !

Next one!

justsean · « **Reply #45 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:10:29 PM »

Since FSG have come in I have gone from cautiously optimistic to slightly concerned.

There's so much talk coming from their camp about how we should be challenging and how we will win "a Premier League title" and how FA Cups and Carling Cups aren't good enough - only the Top 4 is. But tell me - how on earth do they think they can achieve these goals with the way we've gone about our business.

Silly season sometimes turns me into an over paranoid fool. So I will say no more and reserve any further judgement of them until the 1st of September.

Melbred · « **Reply #46 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:10:39 PM »

Quote from: Matt8Pie on July 31, 2012, 01:07:11 PM

I think you should reread what he said...

I'm not aiming this just at him. A lot of people are already seeming to lean one way without even giving the owners a chance as evident by threads like these and numerous other threads that have been locked due to people derailing by slagging off FSG.

Concern is okay, but some of the paranoia and conspiracy theories are ridiculous. Is it so hard to wait a little before making such crazy judgements?

Kage · « **Reply #47 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:10:59 PM »

Quote from: scatman on July 31, 2012, 01:06:39 PM

been like that since summer 2010, nothing new.

Indeed. Our name still carries weight (for now). If we show the ambition, we could still sign most players. However we appear to have little ambition and that is why we no longer sign top players. The not in the CL argument is a convenient excuse to hide behind and sadly, many accept it.

Wingman · « **Reply #48 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:11:28 PM »

Quote from: The G in Gerrard on July 31, 2012, 12:36:59 PM

Let's just see what happens by end of transfer window

Or .... wait to see what happens on the pitch this season.

geoffstrong · « **Reply #49 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:12:39 PM »

Quote from: Melbred on July 31, 2012, 01:10:39 PM

I'm not aiming this just at him. A lot of people are already seeming to lean one way without even giving the owners a chance as evident by threads like these and numerous other threads that have been locked due to people derailing by slagging off FSG.

Concern is okay, but some of the paranoia and conspiracy theories are ridiculous. Is it so hard to wait a little before making such crazy judgements?

so you are using your lack of comprehension for a little rant for your agenda , well done almost a nice move now read what i wrote again!

Matt8Pie · « **Reply #50 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:13:03 PM »

Quote from: Melbred on July 31, 2012, 01:10:39 PM

I'm not aiming this just at him. A lot of people are already seeming to lean one way without even giving the owners a chance as evident by threads like these and numerous other threads that have been locked due to people derailing by slagging off FSG.

Concern is okay, but some of the paranoia and conspiracy theories are ridiculous. Is it so hard to wait a little before making such crazy judgements?

Without giving the owners a chance? They've been here nearly two years and we've only gone backwards. If you can't see some of the warning signs that are setting alarm bells off with some of us, then fine, but I think the worry is very justified.

justsean · « **Reply #51 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:13:55 PM »

Quote from: Melbred on July 31, 2012, 01:10:39 PM

I'm not aiming this just at him. A lot of people are already seeming to lean one way without even giving the owners a chance as evident by threads like these and numerous other threads that have been locked due to people derailing by slagging off FSG.

Concern is okay, but some of the paranoia and conspiracy theories are ridiculous. Is it so hard to wait a little before making such crazy judgements?

I respect what you're saying but I would say one could definitely argue that the owners have been given a chance at this stage.

Obviously it would be daft to make a conclusion about them at this stage, but so far - there's a lot to be desired...

NOTBORNIN1982 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:14:08 PM »

The season hasn't even stared yet

Dubred · « **Reply #53 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:14:12 PM »

I dont feel worried about the club compared to the worry when the other two were in place but yeah, there just feels like there's something not right these days.

We've pined for the Liverpool way to come back and things to be kept behind doors and its been great to a degree to see that but the other side of that coin is that its worrying the fans no end.

We're not seeing a lot of progression that we perhaps expected; we're seeing a lot of cutting down; and there doesnt seem to be any clear indication from within the club on where they are taking us.

Its not overreaction and times have been worse, but sometimes they say go with your gut, and it doesnt feel right at the moment.

Gut aside, please let things be rosier come September!

litliper · « **Reply #54 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:14:23 PM »

A lot of people are making it sound like we had a perfectly good squad with a well balanced wage bill. Also that the stadium is only a matter of giving the go ahead. We all know that things are a lot more complicated than that.

It's very healthy to have concernes but the reaction right now is very premature and is the direct result of being very badly burned before. I don't think we'll have any real idea in what direction the club is heading until at least a year from now. Not that the potential warning signs shouldn't be discussed in the meantime...

BCCC · « **Reply #55 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:14:45 PM »

Vision and Goal was: Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies

Strategy was: Produce a squad and style of play to achieve the vision

Vision and Goal is: Liverpool Football Club exists to increase it's market value

Strategy is: Agressively market the club as a global brand

walshys_mullet · « **Reply #56 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:15:46 PM »

I think something that really made me write that post was looking at Henry's twitter, amongst other things. The usual dirge was on there about why we arnt buying kaka etc, but there were quite a few from Sox fans, including some blog posts with concerns to how they are faring.

Whilst that does not mean the world will cave in, the mere fact that their prize asset is struggling also might make them take their eye off us completely for the forseeable future whilst they get that house in order. To have two big teams, with one being your main sport and them both struggling is going to put enormous stress on them.

geoffstrong · « **Reply #57 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:16:51 PM »

Quote from: BCCC on July 31, 2012, 01:14:45 PM

Vision and Goal was: Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies

Strategy was: Produce a squad and style of play to achieve the vision

Vision and Goal is: Liverpool Football Club exists to increase it's market value

Strategy is: Agressively market the club as a global brand

Brilliantly put well done got it in a nutshell.

Grobbelrevell · « **Reply #58 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:17:30 PM »

Quote from: Melbred on July 31, 2012, 01:01:49 PM

Let's just say the fans all decide to turn against the owners and the manager before even having a chance to prove themselves, I wonder what will happen.

Well a section played their part in forcing Rafa out - and that was after he'd proved himself by bringing home number five, so we know it can happen. What chance would Brendan Rodgers have up against that kind of mentality? If he doesn't hit the ground running I shudder to think, frankly.

As for the owners, well i'm tired of the same circular arguments regarding them to be honest.

justsean · « **Reply #59 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:18:07 PM »

Quote from: walshys_mullet on July 31, 2012, 01:15:46 PM

I think something that really made me write that post was looking at Henry's twitter, amongst other things. The usual dirge was on there about why we arnt buying kaka etc, but there were quite a few from Sox fans, including some blog posts with concerns to how they are faring.

Whilst that does not mean the world will cave in, the mere fact that their prize asset is struggling also might make them take their eye off us completely for the forseeable future whilst they get that house in order. To have two big teams, with one being your main sport and them both struggling is going to put enormous stress on them.

This is just my opinion, but I think the "prize asset" for FSG is the one that will realise them the biggest profit, generate the biggest fanbase and increase their profile the most. In the long term by all accounts, on a worldwide basis - that would be us.

dotheoffski · « **Reply #60 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:18:48 PM »

The owners must have learnt alot over the past 21 months. They supported Kenny in the transfer market, so got no fault with them there. It looks like we will stay at Anfield and this redevelopment needs to be paid for, so they are trying to get rid of players who are underused but overpaid to create excess funds.

They have decided to give a young exciting manager a chance to create something, which at the end of the day is a gamble. But very few managers guarantee success. They could of gone for the easy option of Rafa (kinda wish they had) but decided not to.

The clubs mistake's have come over the past few years, selling to G&H, sacking Rafa and appointing Hodgson. Unfortunately FSG are still having to deal with the consequences of past fuck ups and it takes time to turn around.

I am not concerned. Next summer after nearly 3 years in charge will be the time to access, not now.

filopastry · « **Reply #61 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:18:55 PM »

I'm certainly concerned, to be honest while many understandably started shouting the minute Rodgers came out and said we were a few years away from competing for the CL, the worrying thing is he's probably right.

We've got a bloated wage bill which seems to largely reward those who have offered little, and also means they're basically unsellable.

People won't like it but it is essential that we get that under control to free up funds to invest in the squad either in terms of transfer fees or wages.

We can't carry on like this, we're paying a heavy price for years of poor work buying in the transfer market, and there are no short term fixes to those problems without a sugar daddy owner which we already know we don't have.

We might get lucky but I suspect the next season or 2 could almost be the definition of transitional seasons.

In the medium term things should improve by a culling of the crap and the underperforming, but that's going to take a while and I just hope the commercial revenues don't drop off dramatically given our likely lack of success in the meantime.

pooley · « **Reply #62 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:19:11 PM »

After what happened at this club with our previous American owners, can anybody seriously not understand people's concerns. There seems to be a clique of people on here who would find it acceptable if John Henry was to to tear down the recently restored 'This is Anfield' sign walk out into the middle of the pitch and shit on it in front of a full house.

Kochevnik · « **Reply #63 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:19:45 PM »

Like several, I'm going to wait until the end of the transfer window before I really let myself get too worried, and I suppose I won't panic until at least the end of the season, but I share your concerns.

Actually, you know what worries me most? That we'll slide so far down that I will actually welcome the Arab/Chinese/American conglomerate/businessman that buys us out to make us a corporate plaything, pledging to end the horror of the FSG era and restore us to prominence through the spending of untold billions on all the world's superstars. I honestly fear becoming the Liverpool equivalent of one of those auld arse Chelsea/City fans who have seen their clubs turned into a mockery by the actions of their owners, even as they took the team to unheard-of heights. I don't think I could live with myself if I actually wanted that to happen to our club.

walshys_mullet · « **Reply #64 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:24:19 PM »

Quote from: justsean on July 31, 2012, 01:18:07 PM

This is just my opinion, but I think the "prize asset" for FSG is the one that will realise them the biggest profit, generate the biggest fanbase and increase their profile the most. In the long term by all accounts, on a worldwide basis - that would be us.

Aye fair enough but Henry LOVES Baseball, its his passion.

incidentally, this made me laugh, a blog entry from some footy fanatic

"John W Henry loves baseball

Liverpool are playing Everton today in the FA Cup semi-final. Nobody cares about the FA Cup anymore, especially the Liverpool owner John W Henry who has gone back to America to watch baseball rather than see his club in action today.

Henry, who looks like a blockbuster-bad-guy, decided to fly back to American and watch the Boston Red Sox play instead. I don't even like Liverpool and this has pissed me off, not because he is clearly saying he cares more about the Red Sox more than he does about Liverpool but because he likes baseball more than football.

Baseball is terrible. I can understand why Americans would go to watch the games, they last about a day which allows them to eat numerous hot-dogs, nuts and drink copious amounts of beer. However as a sport, it really is terrible. Skinny person throws ball, fat person on steroids hits ball, skinny person catches ball, fat person on steroids tries to run, repeat. The only other countries that play baseball seriously are Cuba, Mexico and Japan and that's only because they hate America and want to punch them in the face.

Liverpool fans will be delighted to know that Henry being there inspired the Red Sox to a thrilling victory. They had 12 Rs 16Hs and 0Es - sounds like a classic. I have absolutely no idea what that means. "

mb1111 · « **Reply #65 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:28:04 PM »

Quite content at the moment, dont buy the "they're shit owners unless they splash Man City money out" which is basically what 99% of the criticism is. Was always likely to be some shitter times until things got better, our finances are a mess, loads on here seem to think we are a money making machine and there should be masses of cash available but it's clearly not the case. Might be a bit of a rough summer with some high earners going etc but hopefully it gives us a better base to build from in the future so we can actually start making the most of the good amount of money we do bring in. They seem to be getting stick for trying to undo past mistakes. If we are in a similar position in 2 years then I'll defo be worried.

Stadium obviously a big issue and the lack of progress is a bit worrying, hopefully something happens on that before the end of the year.

Personally, I'm more concerned about how we are managed at the moment. The whinging about spending isnt valid when you see last summer Spurs making a big profit in their spending yet in their league performance they gained 7 points on the season before, yet according to lots on here you can only improve if you lash 10s and 10s and 10s of millions at something. Speaking of which, we spent about £35m net and yet managed to go backwards!!

justsean · « **Reply #66 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:31:45 PM »

Quote from: walshys_mullet on July 31, 2012, 01:24:19 PM

Aye fair enough but Henry LOVES Baseball, its his passion.

incidentally, this made me laugh, a blog entry from some footy fanatic

"John W Henry loves baseball

Liverpool are playing Everton today in the FA Cup semi-final. Nobody cares about the FA Cup anymore, especially the Liverpool owner John W Henry who has gone back to America to watch baseball rather than see his club in action today.

Henry, who looks like a blockbuster-bad-guy, decided to fly back to American and watch the Boston Red Sox play instead. I don't even like Liverpool and this has pissed me off, not because he is clearly saying he cares more about the Red Sox more than he does about Liverpool but because he likes baseball more than football.

Baseball is terrible. I can understand why Americans would go to watch the games, they last about a day which allows them to eat numerous hot-dogs, nuts and drink copious amounts of beer. However as a sport, it really is terrible. Skinny person throws ball, fat person on steroids hits ball, skinny person catches ball, fat person on steroids tries to run, repeat. The only other countries that play baseball seriously are Cuba, Mexico and Japan and that's only because they hate America and want to punch them in the face.

Liverpool fans will be delighted to know that Henry being there inspired the Red Sox to a thrilling victory. They had 12 Rs 16Hs and 0Es - sounds like a classic. I have absolutely no idea what that means. "

Definitely a funny blog

- I get that Baseball is his passion but I think he's a money man at the end of the day. I remember him tweeting about how the CL Final had twice as many viewers as a Superbowl and he couldn't believe it.

I don't envy Henry (in some ways - obviously I'd be okay with having all his millions and his Linda)having to balance the two clubs. Whenever he's over here the red sox fans complain and whenever he picks them over us we complain.

I hope this thread isn't locked but starred or something instead because there's a lot of very interesting reading in it and as long as people have reasoned and respectful debate, I think it's a good and important conversation that needs to be had.

They have made a lot of mistakes since they have come in, but they seem like a group of people who are eager to learn and succeed with the club. I just can't get my head around some of the transfer window blunders.

richiedouglas · « **Reply #67 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:34:58 PM »

I'm terrified of becoming Villa-esque. Last year was probably our big chance to rebuild and we monumentally fluffed it. Will we see that again? Not this year I wouldn't have thought. Rodgers will have to prove himself for a season before he gets the big bucks. It makes sense to the money men, but when we're 5-7th again they'll only have themselves to blame.

Severely · « **Reply #68 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:35:29 PM »

I'm a little concerned with the lack of positive movement on the transfer front, but at the same time, I think it's too early to press the panic buttons. Until the reports are proven true, and we end up losing key players with no-one brought in by the end of the transfer window, I won't be too worried. We have to remember that Rodgers did say that he wants to bring in 3 or 4 players, and I doubt a man at such a crucial stage of his career would have signed a contract with us unless he believed that FSG would fully back him in the implementation of his ideas, and in the transfer market. Until this is proven wrong, I'm going to stay positive. There isn't much we can do as fans right now, and I'm not sure there's much that we should be doing right now. We just have to have a little bit of faith in the club, and give everyone there our support while the future is still unclear. If things still look unclear, or worse, when the season starts, that's when opening the floodgates might be justified, but right now? Just give it time.

No666 · « **Reply #69 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:36:02 PM »

Quote from: mb1111 on July 31, 2012, 01:28:04 PM

Quite content at the moment, dont buy the "they're shit owners unless they splash Man City money out" which is basically what 99% of the criticism is. ... If we are in a similar position in 2 years then I'll defo be worried.

Nobody has said that. Not one solitary poster.
And if we're in a similar position in two years time you'd be right to be worried, because FFP will guarantee we'll be in a spiralling decline.

edeyj · « **Reply #70 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:36:04 PM »

Many concerns about FSG and how they have gone about their business so far. However, I'm not about to jump off any buildings just yet.

I am actually looking forward to the start of the season because I think Brendan's approach could just deliver the goods. Trimming some of the fat isn't a bad idea either to be honest. I know a lot on here thought Aquilani had a lot to offer - I didn't. Having seen Andy Carroll in his "unplayable" phase I'm not too fussed for him either.The only player who has left so far who I wish was still here is Dirk (however I admire the guy for moving for first team football).

I think we will see a couple more signings before the window shuts and I don't think we will see Skrtel or Agger move on just yet. A good batch of younger players breaking through too.

Time to give Brendan a chance but hold FSG to their promises.

filopastry · « **Reply #71 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:38:06 PM »

Quote from: richiedouglas on July 31, 2012, 01:34:58 PM

I'm terrified of becoming Villa-esque. Last year was probably our big chance to rebuild and we monumentally fluffed it. Will we see that again? Not this year I wouldn't have thought. Rodgers will have to prove himself for a season before he gets the big bucks. It makes sense to the money men, but when we're 5-7th again they'll only have themselves to blame.

Last year was the big opportunity, even then that was driven by sales with a decent but not spectacular net spend on top, the problem now is we don't have another Fernando Torres who we can offload for a huge profit in spite of him underperforming, things are going to be tight as a result

kcbworth · « **Reply #72 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:38:16 PM »

I'm less optimistic than I was before... have always felt "at least with have player x, y, z here, and with them, we can still do well". Also, until the last week or so, hadnt seen Rodgers put a foot wrong. Fingers crossed we can hang onto our best, we sign some even better, and Rodgers has the chance to put his plan into action.

Regarding player movements, it's inevitable that a strong minded manager won't be shy tearing an underperforming team apart, and sometimes it is best to take away big name players who dont fit your style or are on the decline. Seen some great examples of this brining instant success. Not sure about losing your players who are close to the top of their game and seemingly perfect fits for your style though, not sure that has gone anywhere in the past.

T.Mills · « **Reply #73 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:38:47 PM »

Really well put OP and one im in total agreement with.

We are close to becoming a spent force in the transfer market, our name isn't attarcting the top players like it used to (bar Suarez), we are in a huge transition period at the moment and one that we need to get right, now is definately not the time to start cost cutting.

In all honesty im harbouring little hope for the next few seasons, I feel that our last line of defence is the youth set up, I'm hoping for a 'golden generation' (ala United) to come through in the next few seasons to kick start us back into life.

apocalypse · « **Reply #74 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:41:39 PM »

The only thing that has me somewhat concerned is the staff positions and even that there are rumours (might be official by now) that we've brought in people.
For the rest I've already taken my chill pill; a strong dose to last till end of transfer window. Suggest others do the same.

El Denzel Pepito · « **Reply #75 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:42:28 PM »

Quote from: Trada on July 31, 2012, 12:46:11 PM

I share your worries.

Becoming more and more disillusioned with football right now.

Just want the season to start and the transfer window to close so we can see where we stand then.

Tepid water · « **Reply #76 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:42:39 PM »

Someone's got cold feet eh?

Look, it's not an easy time for the club and really this is where FSG would want to have been when they took over, a fresh slate, a young manager a clean slate.

If that had happened then, I don't think too many people would have been worried (better certainly than hodgson we would have said).

What we have now is a total unknown.

Unknown system, unknown manager (in many ways) and unknown squad members (who will go, who will stay?).

It's not unusual to be concerned, but you can also look at it as a new start, a total fresh slate.

We've been thought the worst time (on the pitch) since Souness and we need to steady the ship.

Rodgers has a hell of a task to do that I have no idea of he can do it or not, we've been here before in some ways with Rafa and Houliier, but they had a longer and more prolific track record to reassure us. But, in many ways the squad is similar to the one rafa inherited... Short on quality and scrabbling around with little money to get success.

So, as a club we've got a long term project to back a manager to turn the club around. He's young, inexperienced but has fresh and creative ideas which he believes in completely. We need to be strong, firm and confident and prepared to see the project through (unlike Chelsea).

Patience and belief in the system... Give it a try

KirkVanHouten · « **Reply #77 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:43:28 PM »

I would give my left bollock to have Rafa back as our manager, if anyone could get us back into the Champions League it's that man. It's a testament to him that we're still ranked 11th in Europe after being out of the Champions League for 3 seasons and the Europa for 1.

mart356 · « **Reply #78 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:43:52 PM »

Quote from: BCCC on July 31, 2012, 01:14:45 PM

Vision and Goal was: Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies

Strategy was: Produce a squad and style of play to achieve the vision

Vision and Goal is: Liverpool Football Club exists to increase it's market value

Strategy is: Agressively market the club as a global brand

But what youre forgetting is that in order to 'Produce a squad and style of play to achieve the vision' you also need to 'Agressively market the club as a global brand', so that money can be spent in competing with other clubs in offering the best wages and transfer values.

This is modern football, for the past decade fans have been moaning about us falling behind in terms of commercial revenue, and the moment someone actually tries to make our club good in this area, people complain. Personally, i dont see FSG have done a lot wrong, of course there has been some mistakes, but overall they have been good for the club.

Supporters wll just pick apart everything in order to moan and create drama.

alfonso · « **Reply #79 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:44:59 PM »

This Aquilani business has angered me. Ayre's agents releasing their pieces in the press with nonsense about 125K/week to try and make the fans pissed off and push for his sale (when he's on 1/3 less).
They want him out for monetary reasons before football reasons even though he is head and shoulders better than some of the others.

We're a tin pot club. The owners are bullshitters.