Author Topic: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic  (Read 2090 times)

Offline litliper

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,747
  • Does anybody wanna buy a country?
http://genome.fieldofscience.com/2012/07/anti-vaccination-propagandists-help.html

Anti-vaccination propagandists help create the worst whooping cough epidemic in 70 years

By Steven Salzberg on 7/22/2012 07:00:00 AM

The great northwest of the U.S. is known for its natural beauty.  It's also a high-tech region with a highly educated public - not exactly the kind of place one would expect to fall for the anti-science rhetoric of the anti-vaccine movement.

But it has.  The anti-vaxxers have convinced a frighteningly high number of parents in Washington State to withhold vaccines from their children.  A story in The Seattle Times last year reported that 
"Washington [state] parents are choosing not to vaccinate their kindergartners at a rate higher than anywhere else in the country."  
This despite the fact that the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (formed by the founder of Microsoft, which is headquartered in Seattle) is one of the world's leading sponsors of vaccine research.  

When the vaccination rates drop, everyone becomes more vulnerable to infectious diseases.  When more than 90% of the population is vaccinated, we have "herd immunity" - this means the disease can't spread because there aren't enough susceptible people in the community.  So the high rate of vaccine refusal in Washington makes it easier for whooping cough (and other diseases) to spread.

The media has been complicit in spreading some of anti-vaccine misinformation.  Sometimes it comes straight from the media itself, such as the credulous, anti-science, anti-vax CBS reporter Sharyl Attkisson. Other times it comes from talk shows, magazines, or even airline advertisements that provide a platform for anti-vax celebrity doctors such as Jay Gordon (who gained fame as Jenny McCarthy's son's doctor) and "Dr. Bob" Sears, who has published his own "alternative" vaccine schedule in a book filled with anti-vaccine nonsense.  These characters continue to claim, at every chance they get, that vaccines cause autism (as Gordon has said, repeatedly), or that they cause other harms, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  They use their medical degrees and their faux concern "for the children" to frighten parents into keeping their kids unvaccinated.

And now we learn that the U.S. is in the midst of the worst whooping cough epidemic in 70 years.  One of the most hard-hit states is Washington, which the CDC just announced (on 20 July) has suffered 2,520 cases so far this year, a 1300% increase over last year.  This is the highest number of cases reported in Washington since 1942.  This plot of the number of cases this year compared to last year shows the dramatic rise in infections:

The figure above shows the number of confirmed and probable pertussis cases reported, by week of onset in Washington, during January 1, 2011-June 16, 2012.  Source: Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Making things worse, it seems, is an increase in cases among children aged 13-14.  Children get a booster shot at age 11-12, but the new outbreak indicates that the effectiveness of the booster may not last very long.  The dramatic increase in whooping cough this year also suggests that the bacterium that causes it, Bordetella pertussis, is mutating to make the vaccine less effective.  Nevertheless, the CDC emphasizes: 
"Vaccination continues to be the single most effective strategy to reduce morbidity and mortality caused by pertussis. Vaccination of pregnant women and contacts of infants is recommended to protect infants too young to be vaccinated."
This good advice is seriously undermined when misinformed doctors such as "Dr. Bob" Sears directly advise pregnant women not to get the whooping cough vaccine, as he did in the Huffington Post. (Hint: it's a good rule to be very skeptical of celebrity doctors who go by their first name.)

I should also point out that whooping cough is a national problem, not just Washington State's.  The U.S. has had over 17,000 cases this year, putting it on track for the worst year since 1959.  The highest rate of infection in the nation is in Wisconsin (which has also been hit hard by anti-vaccine effects), followed by Washington and Montana. 10 deaths have been reported, mostly in infants who were too young to be vaccinated.  For all this, we can thank the anti-vaccination movement.



Gotta love stupidity.
"My country is the world, and my religion to do good." (Thomas Paine)

Offline Immoral King Brian Blessed

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,438
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2012, 09:25:18 PM »
I agree they are loons peddaling bullshit in the face of facts, but that article doesn't help itself being so biased.


And this is scaremongering:

"When more than 90% of the population is vaccinated, we have "herd immunity" - this means the disease can't spread because there aren't enough susceptible people in the community. "

That's fine, but it doesn't say how many are now not immunised. It says 17,000 cases year to date, so I assume on track for about 34,000 for the year. Obviously, with a population of 300,000,000, it's not even close to 10% unimmunised, obviously.

And no, I don't really have a point. But the anti-vaccine people are a bunch of Jonh Terrys.

Offline RedRabbit

  • Rampant but without the batteries.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,943
  • این نیز بگذرد
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2012, 09:29:00 PM »
Well done Oprah. Well done.

Online Tepid water

  • Folically-challenged monkey-rubber.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,277
  • Humongous D. Back of the net.
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2012, 09:41:12 PM »
We are having measles epidemics in this country.....

This disease could have been obliterated, but for utter cretins that chose to put their childrens lives at risk unnecessarily.
I TOLD YOU WE WEREN'T SIGNING HUNTELAAR.

Offline Zep

  • Main Stander
  • **
  • Posts: 218
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2012, 09:59:58 PM »
I agree they are loons peddaling bullshit in the face of facts, but that article doesn't help itself being so biased.


And this is scaremongering:

"When more than 90% of the population is vaccinated, we have "herd immunity" - this means the disease can't spread because there aren't enough susceptible people in the community. "

That's fine, but it doesn't say how many are now not immunised. It says 17,000 cases year to date, so I assume on track for about 34,000 for the year. Obviously, with a population of 300,000,000, it's not even close to 10% unimmunised, obviously.


It's not scare-mongering, you misinterpreted what that sentence meant.  It was meant to say that when a high enough proportion of the population is immunized a disease has trouble finding new hosts to infect before the carrier's immune system fights back and kills the disease.

Offline SP

  • The Equusfluminis Of RAWK. Straight in at the deep end. Needs to get a half-life. Needs a damned good de-frag.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,241
  • .
    • .
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 10:04:33 PM »
I agree they are loons peddaling bullshit in the face of facts, but that article doesn't help itself being so biased.


And this is scaremongering:

"When more than 90% of the population is vaccinated, we have "herd immunity" - this means the disease can't spread because there aren't enough susceptible people in the community. "

That's fine, but it doesn't say how many are now not immunised. It says 17,000 cases year to date, so I assume on track for about 34,000 for the year. Obviously, with a population of 300,000,000, it's not even close to 10% unimmunised, obviously.

And no, I don't really have a point. But the anti-vaccine people are a bunch of Jonh Terrys.

Unimmunised and contracting whooping cough are not the same thing. The first makes the latter more likely not certain.
Norman Bettison is laughing at you.

http://tinyurl.com/bettison

Offline Golden_Child

  • I...I...I...Iwanttheknife......oh, serious mode? Okay. Ommmm. Give me the kniiiiiife. Ommmm. Pleeeaaaase!
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,694
  • Lucas is boss
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 10:09:17 PM »
More nutters doing their best to ruin America even further. They show absolutely no remorse about putting their kids and their kids classmates at risk. They should be fined for not immunising them, at least.

Online Tepid water

  • Folically-challenged monkey-rubber.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,277
  • Humongous D. Back of the net.
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2012, 10:15:21 PM »
Unimmunised and contracting whooping cough are not the same thing. The first makes the latter more likely not certain.
Actually, you're right....

I've had whopping cough and I was immunised ... Works both ways I guess.
I TOLD YOU WE WEREN'T SIGNING HUNTELAAR.

Offline kesey

  • Hippy - Scally - Taoist. Trichotomist.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,164
  • I really want to see you.
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012, 10:32:03 PM »
Anybody that thinks that all vaccines are safe needs to do some serious research.

More nutters doing their best to ruin America even further.


I think the true nutters are running the country but thats for another debate.
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

He who expects freedom of speech should allow others to speak .  Me - Now.

Offline RedRabbit

  • Rampant but without the batteries.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,943
  • این نیز بگذرد
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 10:35:28 PM »
I think you might be mistaken there. The people who make the vaccines do serious research.

The ones who think they aren't safe do storytelling.

Offline SP

  • The Equusfluminis Of RAWK. Straight in at the deep end. Needs to get a half-life. Needs a damned good de-frag.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,241
  • .
    • .
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2012, 10:39:40 PM »
Anybody that thinks that all vaccines are safe needs to do some serious research.
I think the true nutters are running the country but thats for another debate.


I do have a history for ranting against the Daily Mail, so I will keep this brief. The actions of the Mail during the MMR scandal are as pernicious and evil as anything the tabloids have done.

Vaccination is not completely safe, no one really claims that it is, and it carries a risk. But there is a reason why the vaccines are developed in the first place. The diseases that vaccines offer protection against are terrible diseases that kill and maim if left unchecked.
Norman Bettison is laughing at you.

http://tinyurl.com/bettison

Online Tepid water

  • Folically-challenged monkey-rubber.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,277
  • Humongous D. Back of the net.
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2012, 10:40:30 PM »
I think you might be mistaken there. The people who make the vaccines do serious research.

The ones who think they aren't safe do storytelling.
There is an inherent risk with any vaccine.

Usually it's an anaphalactic Reaction to the vaccine.

Rates are terribly terribly low though, far far far lower than the risk of the disease itself.

It's massively safer to get vaccinated than not.
I TOLD YOU WE WEREN'T SIGNING HUNTELAAR.

Offline RedRabbit

  • Rampant but without the batteries.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,943
  • این نیز بگذرد
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2012, 10:43:30 PM »
There is an inherent risk with any vaccine.

Usually it's an anaphalactic Reaction to the vaccine.

Rates are terribly terribly low though, far far far lower than the risk of the disease itself.

It's massively safer to get vaccinated than not.

No doubt. But I have a sneaking suspicion that that wasn't what Kesey was reffering to.

If I'm wrong I apologise. But...I'm not wrong.  :P

Even still the people who can't take the vaccine are protected by the people that can, so it's not all doom.

Online Tepid water

  • Folically-challenged monkey-rubber.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,277
  • Humongous D. Back of the net.
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2012, 10:48:30 PM »
No doubt. But I have a sneaking suspicion that that wasn't what Kesey was reffering to.

If I'm wrong I apologise. But...I'm not wrong.  :P

Even still the people who can't take the vaccine are protected by the people that can, so it's not all doom.
Indeed.

An example.

For the vaccine for swine flu, squalene was used as an adjutant (ie. to boost the effect of the vaccine on the immune system.

Loads of anti vax loonies came out and stated as a fact that squalene was in the vaccines given in the first gulf war and had been identified as a likely cause of gulf war syndrome.

Now, such is the power of "shit" on the Internet, this became an Internet "fact".  You couldn't talk an anti vax loony out of squalene being dangerous.

There was one small flaw in their argument though....

Squalene was never in any vaccine given to troops in the Gulf war..... Just a small point, but rather an import at one..... Alll anti vax arguments are built on similar house of cards lies
I TOLD YOU WE WEREN'T SIGNING HUNTELAAR.

Online Tepid water

  • Folically-challenged monkey-rubber.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,277
  • Humongous D. Back of the net.
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 10:52:21 PM »
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=63

Have a look on here, it's fucking comedy gold.

Seriously, it's just genius....
I TOLD YOU WE WEREN'T SIGNING HUNTELAAR.

Offline RedRabbit

  • Rampant but without the batteries.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,943
  • این نیز بگذرد
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 10:59:02 PM »
I've heard that one before. Symptomatic of the movement unfortunately.

It's kind of similar that the preservative used in MMR, (thinerosal?), was the cause of autism, so they took it out and no change in autism rates was detected. They change there minds? Did they fuck!

Anti-vaxers are true believers and very hard to shake free from their sacred cow..

The irony is that they won't accept the scientific studies done and then ask for a scientific study comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated children. Who do they think should run that experiment? Mengele?

Offline RedRabbit

  • Rampant but without the batteries.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,943
  • این نیز بگذرد
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2012, 11:06:50 PM »
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=63

Have a look on here, it's fucking comedy gold.

Seriously, it's just genius....

They're brilliant.

I spent some time on the JREF forum today and they have this "Fucking stupid things CTers say thread/polls" [paraphrased]. An awful lot of them come from Icke's playground.

It's fluoride Tepid!!! The world is full of fluoride!!!!

Offline kesey

  • Hippy - Scally - Taoist. Trichotomist.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,164
  • I really want to see you.
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2012, 11:36:15 PM »
I think you might be mistaken there. The people who make the vaccines do serious research.

The ones who think they aren't safe do storytelling.


Do you do serious research or just take somebdoys word for it?

By the way. Iam not with or against the anti vaxis or whatever they are called. Iam just saying that it astonishes me the way most people think " ah , they say its good for us so it must be "

Hope that clears a few things up.
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

He who expects freedom of speech should allow others to speak .  Me - Now.

Offline The Gulleysucker

  • RAWK's very own spinached up Popeye. Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,949
  • An Indolent Sybarite
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2012, 12:09:03 AM »
....It's fluoride Tepid!!! The world is full of fluoride!!!!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OcHNYenN7OY&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/OcHNYenN7OY&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1</a>
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  - Sagan
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Law of Logical Argument   Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
Believer in the Light Demons of Chunder-Upon-Tits - Corkboy

Offline Golden_Child

  • I...I...I...Iwanttheknife......oh, serious mode? Okay. Ommmm. Give me the kniiiiiife. Ommmm. Pleeeaaaase!
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,694
  • Lucas is boss
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2012, 12:51:11 AM »
Anybody that thinks that all vaccines are safe needs to do some serious research.
I think the true nutters are running the country but thats for another debate.

Possibly 5 years ago, they are in much safer hands with the democrats but that is for another thread  ;)

As for "they say it's good for us", why would they say that if it wasn't true? The vaccines will have been through rigorous peer reviews which are there for the sole purpose of disproving their findings. Unless you think the entire scientific community (or big pharma) is corrupt I fail to see what you are getting at.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 12:56:51 AM by Golden_Child »

Offline RedRabbit

  • Rampant but without the batteries.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,943
  • این نیز بگذرد
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2012, 01:06:37 AM »

Do you do serious research or just take somebdoys word for it?

By the way. Iam not with or against the anti vaxis or whatever they are called. Iam just saying that it astonishes me the way most people think " ah , they say its good for us so it must be "

Hope that clears a few things up.

I've read the research from both sides.

One had scientific papers outlining what tests they did and the other side is based on 'Mommy knowledge' while sitting on Oprah's couch.

If anything came up that could persuade me otherwise I'd change my mind. But there's nothing out there to read. And how exactly could I perform a scientific test that would show the outcome in anti-vaxs favour? I'd need a control group.

Offline kesey

  • Hippy - Scally - Taoist. Trichotomist.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,164
  • I really want to see you.
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2012, 03:44:10 PM »
There is an inherent risk with any vaccine.

Usually it's an anaphalactic Reaction to the vaccine.

Rates are terribly terribly low though, far far far lower than the risk of the disease itself.

It's massively safer to get vaccinated than not.

Maybe. There is nothing wrong with the throwing caution to the wind approach but try telling that to the victims of the gung ho approach. Especially when they have been promised it is safe. Another thing. Surely the answer is a complete risk free vaccine.


It's fluoride Tepid!!! The world is full of fluoride!!!!

The thing with mass medication is that it removes personal choice.


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=63

Have a look on here, it's fucking comedy gold.

Seriously, it's just genius....


I hope you are not not trying to make a connection with me and Icke.
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

He who expects freedom of speech should allow others to speak .  Me - Now.

Offline SP

  • The Equusfluminis Of RAWK. Straight in at the deep end. Needs to get a half-life. Needs a damned good de-frag.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,241
  • .
    • .
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2012, 03:51:46 PM »
Surely the answer is a complete risk free vaccine.

Nothing is risk free in life. There is no risk free vaccine. An injection carries risks, so no matter what you inject, there are risks.
Norman Bettison is laughing at you.

http://tinyurl.com/bettison

Offline RedRabbit

  • Rampant but without the batteries.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,943
  • این نیز بگذرد
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2012, 03:55:05 PM »
The thing with mass medication is that it removes personal choice.

I understand that, but it's not really a good argument in relation to vaccinations. If enough people choose to not take the vaccinations they're putting people who have choosen to take them at risk and they're putting the people who can't take them at risk, as well as themselves, to diseases that we can, if not erradicate, at least hold down.

Sometimes personal choice must be stopped in order to help the whole group. If there were serious objections that showed a specific vaccine was dangerous then it might have some credence but there isn't really.

Offline kesey

  • Hippy - Scally - Taoist. Trichotomist.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,164
  • I really want to see you.
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2012, 04:12:46 PM »
Nothing is risk free in life.

That depends on your perception young glasshopper. Another thread I believe so I will swerve it.


. There is no risk free vaccine. An injection carries risks, so no matter what you inject, there are risks.



Forgive my ignorance but has a natural remedy been sought?

 

I understand that, but it's not really a good argument in relation to vaccinations. If enough people choose to not take the vaccinations they're putting people who have choosen to take them at risk and they're putting the people who can't take them at risk, as well as themselves, to diseases that we can, if not erradicate, at least hold down.

Sometimes personal choice must be stopped in order to help the whole group. If there were serious objections that showed a specific vaccine was dangerous then it might have some credence but there isn't really.

I dont agree . If personal choice is removed from life then Babylon can fuck right off.

The rest of your post kind of makes sense but still dont agree. When I travel to Asia i dont get any injections. In some countries its compulsory to have certain injections before you enter but the likes of India and Thailand it aint. I have been with people in India and Thailand who have had anti maleria injections and still got maleria. The tablets they give you and even the spray makes your hair fall out . I swerve all this and dont get anything really that bad apart from the shits and once a mild  bout of dysentery but my body healed itself from the latter.

Saying this. Iam currently on the road again and last weekI caught a tick burrowing itself into my shin. I reckon I got it out within the recomended five hours and so far so good. If I start to get the symptoms of lyme disease then maybe I will have to change my happy go lucky outlook a little.
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

He who expects freedom of speech should allow others to speak .  Me - Now.

Offline RedRabbit

  • Rampant but without the batteries.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,943
  • این نیز بگذرد
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2012, 04:20:24 PM »
Fair enough Kesey. As long as you understand that by taking that stand you, and others like you, put the whole group at risk. Putting myself at a (perceived) risk is better than putting the whole group in an actual risk, imo.

No malaria vaccine has been proven to be effective as of yet.

Offline kesey

  • Hippy - Scally - Taoist. Trichotomist.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,164
  • I really want to see you.
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2012, 04:38:50 PM »
Fair enough Kesey. As long as you understand that by taking that stand you, and others like you, put the whole group at risk. Putting myself at a (perceived) risk is better than putting the whole group in an actual risk, imo.

No malaria vaccine has been proven to be effective as of yet.

Can we agree to leave it here then?   How I see life is we have to learn to disagree and not hold any grudges with those who do not agree with us. The more I feel this the more I realise Iam setting myself free and therefore others free. That maybe a bit radical ( if I could pigeon hole it  ;) ) for you but there ya go. I have been challenged many a time on here and dare I say it taunted about not staying around for the whole debate but honestly mate I dont see the point in us all baging our heads against a wall. I have used the term before about this being a waste of energy for and I still stand by that.

I just hopę I wont bč stŕrting a "  Fuck me . Iam a tit Ive got lyme disease thread " in a few weeks.           :wave

* Pours locally produced Pyrenian wine and goes to hammock *       :wave
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

He who expects freedom of speech should allow others to speak .  Me - Now.

Offline kopitecrash

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,443
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2012, 05:25:04 PM »
That depends on your perception young glasshopper. Another thread I believe so I will swerve it.

Perception? No, nothing is risk free. Every action carries a consequence, and odds (however tiny or minor) of that action having bad consequences. Even the air we breathe has consequences for us. But this is a little off topic so back to vaccines.
I know what you mean. I really wish the Madrid born former Real Vallodolid, Osasuna, Tenerife, Extremadura, Valencia and Inter Milan manager stayed loyal and faithful to a foreign club that sacked him by never managing another club again. Burn him.

Offline corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,945
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2012, 05:28:38 PM »
These things even affect Cork now. That's when you know shit has got serious.

Measles outbreak affects 25 children in Cork

DR MUIRIS HOUSTON

THE LATEST outbreak of measles in the Republic has occurred in west Cork, the Health Service Executive said yesterday.

Twenty-five children, mainly teenagers aged 12-18, have been diagnosed with the viral illness in the last four weeks.

None of those infected had been immunised with the MMR vaccine, which protects against mumps, measles and rubella, public health doctors confirmed.

MMR immunisation rates here have still not recovered following discredited research in 1998 linking the vaccine with bowel disease and autism.

Dr Fiona Ryan, specialist in public health medicine at HSE South, said, “This outbreak is affecting children who are not vaccinated. Siblings of children with measles, if not vaccinated, are also recommended to stay out of school or childcare during the incubation period (usually about 14 days but may be up to 21 days), to ensure that they do not transmit infection to other children who may be too young for vaccination or be at increased risk due to other conditions.”

Source (clicking on this may cause autism)

Offline Immoral King Brian Blessed

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,438
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2012, 05:31:29 PM »
Time to stick a ten foot wall up around Cork. No doors.

Offline RedRabbit

  • Rampant but without the batteries.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,943
  • این نیز بگذرد
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2012, 06:01:07 PM »
Time to stick a ten foot wall up around Cork. No doors.

I've been campaigning for that for years!

Israel and China built walls to keep the undesirables out. I don't see why we can't do the same.

Offline corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,945
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2012, 08:39:31 PM »
I've been campaigning for that for years!

Israel and China built walls to keep the undesirables out. I don't see why we can't do the same.

Because we are love. Cork is the essence of all Good Things.

Offline gazzalfc

  • Jail Broken for your pleasure
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,619
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2012, 09:12:33 PM »
Highest measles rate in Merseyside for decades as well

People are fucking stupid. 

And yes I am saying that any parent who knowingly chooses to not fully vaccinate their child is fucking stupid.

I caught mumps from my MMR vaccine but I do not for one second blame my parents for that and am thankful for having full protection against preventative illnesses that could still kill me.

Yes that is an argument from experience. But I am also a scientist who looks at research and makes a decision based on EVIDENCE and not what the Daily Mail tells me.

I would not have a second thought giving any child I have MMR, Whooping cough, TB vaccinations etc etc

The guy who peddled his Autism theory has been struck off and his research ripped apart.

People who peddle Autism, mercury poisoning, government mind control drugs, the alignment of the planets and moons are fucking morons and needs to have their health decisions taken out of their hands. Either that or place them somewhere where they can't infect people before they get chance to get themselves vaccinated. Then lets see what happens.

In america you could just about get away with the cost argument because their health service is fucked. But its FREE here. Zero evidence that there is a link between the MMR and autism. And even if there was then get the 3 separate vaccinations instead. Let natural selection run its course and send them back to the dark ages

Like I said fucking idiots and have zero time for them
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 07:42:49 AM by gazzalfc »

Offline kesey

  • Hippy - Scally - Taoist. Trichotomist.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,164
  • I really want to see you.
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2012, 10:08:28 PM »
Perception? No, nothing is risk free. Every action carries a consequence, and odds (however tiny or minor) of that action having bad consequences. Even the air we breathe has consequences for us. But this is a little off topic so back to vaccines.

What about actions having good consequences?

* New topic alert *








He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

He who expects freedom of speech should allow others to speak .  Me - Now.

Offline MichaelA

  • MasterBaker. 'concerned neighbour'. Beyond The Pale. Vermin on the ridiculous. Would love to leave Ashley Cole gasping for air. Dupe Snoop Extraordinaire. RAWK MARTYR #1. The proud owner of a new lower case a.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,735
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2012, 09:10:41 AM »

I do have a history for ranting against the Daily Mail, so I will keep this brief. The actions of the Mail during the MMR scandal are as pernicious and evil as anything the tabloids have done.

Vaccination is not completely safe, no one really claims that it is, and it carries a risk. But there is a reason why the vaccines are developed in the first place. The diseases that vaccines offer protection against are terrible diseases that kill and maim if left unchecked.


My views exactly. I've had experience of the anti-vaccine argument and it's truly frightening. It reminds me of the Stewart Lee sketch about 'proving anything with facts'.

 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4n-UGQcG3Jw" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/4n-UGQcG3Jw</a>
Strip Bettison of his knighthood - http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770

Offline litliper

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,747
  • Does anybody wanna buy a country?
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2012, 12:00:33 PM »
If you don't vaccinate your children then you probably shouldn't take them with you in a car. Surely by the same risk logic, transportation in a car presents a far higher risk to the health of your child given the chance of getting into an accident then the risk of vaccination.
"My country is the world, and my religion to do good." (Thomas Paine)

Offline apocalypse

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2012, 01:18:31 PM »
There are no risk free vaccine. Do a 5 minutes research and you'll realise why.
If the child of one of these "anti vaccers" were to die surely the parent could be charged with something?

Offline Immoral King Brian Blessed

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,438
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2012, 01:50:27 PM »
There are no risk free vaccine. Do a 5 minutes research and you'll realise why.
If the child of one of these "anti vaccers" were to die surely the parent could be charged with something?
Probably not, even if it's deserved. It's like the JWs who refuse blood transplants and such. They can all fuck themselves.

Offline gazzalfc

  • Jail Broken for your pleasure
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,619
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2012, 01:51:50 PM »
The risks are either complications during the immunisation process (air in needle etc)

allergic reaction

Or you might catch a mild form of the disease from the process (that's how vaccines work)

All are very low risk considering the risk of not having the vaccination. If they are given by a trained professional and recognise the symptoms then there is zero risk

There is ZERO risk of developing autism directly from the MMR vaccine. That has been proven. And if you are still scared by the daily mail then there are single vaccinations that allow you to split them up.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 01:55:43 PM by gazzalfc »

Offline gazzalfc

  • Jail Broken for your pleasure
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,619
Re: Anti-vaccination propagandists help create whooping cough epidemic
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2012, 01:59:56 PM »
Probably not, even if it's deserved. It's like the JWs who refuse blood transplants and such. They can all fuck themselves.

JW's at least have their religion to blame (think thats a whole other topic for a whole other thread)

3 things really wind me up

Anti vac's
Animal rights activists (I actually hope that each of them develops a deadly disease so i can watch them go to a hospital and beg for treatments that have been tested on animals so I can bathe in the irony. See how many of them would dig up a dead womans body then.)
Homeopathy (ITS FUCKING SUGAR PILLS YOU STUPID IDIOTS!!!)