Topic: A clumsy post - This Brendan bloke and Kenny.

[CHOPPER]

Year zero, not a Pot to piss in, no come here Rouge reds, issues with the left wing, Americans dabbling?

Fucking shitting it whats gonna happen next comrades.

[Fat Scouser]

I know exactly where you are coming from, the 'After Year Zero' may as well be the 'New Liverpool Way' to some on here.

I read everything you said.
I just don't think the club, and what it stands for, have changed nearly as much as you seem to believe.
The principles of football and how a club is run has obviously changed over time, that's just life, things change. But I retain that the owners and any commercialization of Anfield doesn't effect the soul of the club or it doesn't impede "The Liverpool Way".

[Fat Scouser]

Year zero, not a Pot to piss in, no come here Rouge reds, issues with the left wing, Americans dabbling?

Fucking shitting it whats gonna happen next comrades.

Don't know. But after it has happened, I'm sure you'll tell us all about it in your famous stacato Steely Dan sort of Jethro Tull way

[DyingAtheist]

Missing the link there.
My entire point is that nothing's changed, at a very basic level, at the "soul" or "heart" or whatever the hell you want to call it, nothing's changed.
I have no interest in a "New Liverpool Way", and simply because some of us accept that football and therefore Liverpool has to change and adapt, has to worry about money more and the commercial aspect of the club (you know, in order to actually stay alive as a club), that doesn't mean we have any interest in a "New Liverpool Way".

Since when did the owners matter in how our club is defined to us? Since when did the owners matter in terms of what makes this club so great?

[RojoLeón]

This post totally sums up today's RAWK for me.

Our Greek god here, wanted Rafa sacked and thought Kenny deserved to go for poor league position. He will demand Brendy's head before long too. But right now, before a ball is kicked, he is in a state of blissful positivity and doesn't want fs's satire, interfering with that. 

[Fat Scouser]

Missing the link there.

Lad, the club was formed after an argument over beer money. Money has been the main object since 1892, but if you can't see the difference between then and now, well, there's no point in pulling me into discussion.

If you did actually read what I've said, you'd see I've never slagged FSG over any other corporation. They're all the same. But as for this thread, I answered the OP. You and a few others took me to task. We'll let the Omnipotent Ones decide who was right.

[DyingAtheist]

Lad, the club was formed after an argument over beer money. Money has been the main object since 1892, but if you can't see the difference between then and now, well, there's no point in pulling me into discussion.

If you did actually read what I've said, you'd see I've never slagged FSG over any other corporation. They're all the same. But as for this thread, I answered the OP. You and a few others took me to task. We'll let the Omnipotent Ones decide who was right.

Of course there's a difference, not at all trying to suggest there isn't.
Everything has changed, it's been quite a long time, you know? We have to expect things to change. I think we simply disagree on how things have changed, and you, for example, are one of the reasons things haven't changed the way you say they have. As long as there's people like you, and every other supporter who truly loves the club (and yes, would prefer not to see it descend into the murky depths of big business) then how does "The Liverpool Way" ever die? Surely it's up to us as fans to maintain it.

Not trying to take you to ask at all, simply trying to understand.

[Fat Scouser]

Everything has changed, it's been quite a long time, you know?

Has it?
Well, I suppose that's relative. It only seems like yesterday I was on me way home from Istanbul thinking we were still a football club that wasn't like the rest. Even after Athens it didn't really sink in. But like I said, I accept it. We are now part of the football family, whisper it, marketing machine. Funny thing is, for all the bollockings I get, I think I've got more of a grip on that fact than the bollockers.

[jason67]

Our Greek god here, wanted Rafa sacked and thought Kenny deserved to go for poor league position. He will demand Brendy's head before long too. But right now, before a ball is kicked, he is in a state of blissful positivity and doesn't want fs's satire, interfering with that.

Got it in one mate, well said.

[Fat Scouser]

Well, Matron is calling. It's time for us old folk to have our sponge bath, sponge cake and settle down for the evening. So, night night, but hopefully a real rain will come, wash away all the.....

[DyingAtheist]

Has it?
Well, I suppose that's relative. It only seems like yesterday I was on me way home from Istanbul thinking we were still a football club that wasn't like the rest. Even after Athens it didn't really sink in. But like I said, I accept it. We are now part of the football family, whisper it, marketing machine. Funny thing is, for all the bollockings I get, I think I've got more of a grip on that fact than the bollockers.

The problem is that the marketing machine is necessary for there to ever be any more nights like Istanbul.

[And CouldHe Play!]

The problem is that the marketing machine is necessary for there to ever be any more nights like Istanbul.

 

[Greg]

Our Greek god here, wanted Rafa sacked and thought Kenny deserved to go for poor league position. He will demand Brendy's head before long too. But right now, before a ball is kicked, he is in a state of blissful positivity and doesn't want fs's satire, interfering with that. 

I've never heard of this zeus lad before. Just can't believe that someone can put FS on ignore. One of the best posters on here. Never met him, but he's probably boss.

[DyingAtheist]

Okay.
Istanbul happened because;
A) We had a great man as a manager.
B) We had players capable of making it that far.
C) We had the money necessary in the first place in order to make it that far.
D) Because we're Liverpool.

A) and D) are still possible, well D) certainly is and we'll know eventually whether A) is true or not.
However, at this point in time, B) is probably not quite true. Maybe on our day with a bit of luck we could do it (And god knows we rode our luck a bit on the way to Istanbul) but the fact is as time goes by we haven't strengthened in terms of our squad, yet.
In order to strengthen, we need money, we need C). We don't get C) (Or enough of it at least) without integrating the marketing machine that all the other big clubs have. It's all well and good to lament the fact that we've fallen behind the likes of United, City, Arsenal et al. but you then can't complain about bringing marketing and therefore more revenue to Anfield. It's a necessary evil.

[geoffstrong]

The problem is that the marketing machine is necessary for there to ever be any more nights like Istanbul.

yeah keep telling yourself that one!

[J_Kopite]

yeah keep telling yourself that one!

It's either that or a sugar daddy lets be honest here...

[DyingAtheist]

yeah keep telling yourself that one!

Please, how am I wrong?

[rola]

The corporate side of football has just become more explicit in how it goes about making money. Every owner in the clubs history has looked to extract every last farthing, penny & £ from the supporters. We're now dealing in $$$s. Same story, different author. They're brasher, more direct and more efficient in how they go about generating their profit.

It's harder to take when someone tells you they are going to take your money, then tells you they are taking your money and then tells you they have taken your money. Then ask you to smile and say thank you.

The open commercialisation & commodification of football is like strip mining or fracking. It's a greed is good mentality where everything has a price and nothing has value.

The appropriation of the traditional liverbird crest for the new home jersey wasn't about a return to traditional values, it was a rebranding exercise designed to sell more gear under the pretence.

The photographs of Rodgers alongside Shankly pictures were another attempt to hijack history and promote a new manager as a ready made icon by association.

The reason they do it is because it works. People want to have their hopes and dreams and memories sold back to them. People buy into all that crap. We all do in some way. It's how advertising works. It's how political spin now operates to sell ideology packaged as policy. It's how the press creates the news instead of reporting it.

You can sell anything if you first of all create the demand for it. We're experiencing the process of our club being repackaged and sold back to us piece by piece. At an inflated price of course.

Buy into if you want. Your decision. I won't be. Don't need it. Lfc to me is the sum total of my experiences good and bad supporting this great club. I'll continue to support it - but it will increasingly be an idealised version I'll hold onto for as long as I can. I'll open my eyes one day and won't recognise it I'm sure.

[Fat Scouser]

Please, how am I wrong?

You're not. That's the way it is. It's always been this way. And the earth has always spun around the Sun, but we're getting closer to burn out. Silly, soppy aul bollocks, but true. 

[steveeastend]

The problem is that the marketing machine is necessary for there to ever be any more nights like Istanbul.

I don´t think it really is, honestly. I am all for being realistic but I do think there is a way to work around this and still having enough money around for a great squad. With american owners you will get the circus though, just look at the shirts and a couple of other things..

There can be a balance with putting the majority of emphasis on football, a little bit like Bayern and Dortmund, as well as some italian clubs and I think the owners have to be careful to draw the line before the tradition is turned into some sort of monkey business.

Probably it all started with selling the club, but for sure when kicking out Rafa. He just needed one or two major signings in order to start something even bigger than Istanbul. It is possible but the sad thing is though that people at the club played a major role in all this shite. Just have to think of whoever figured and/or supported the idea of bringing in Cecil, Hodgson..

[DyingAtheist]

You're not. That's the way it is. It's always been this way. And the earth has always spun around the Sun, but we're getting closer to burn out. Silly, soppy aul bollocks, but true.

Perhaps.
And perhaps in ten years time there'll be nothing left of the club we love, just a soulless, plastic, shell.
But we're not there yet, and we may never get there. Despite all the marketing and American-ising and branding and such things, there's always something there underneath it all, as long as we as fans keep looking for it and supporting it.

Not sure what I'm even saying now, maybe I'm not cynical enough yet, I just don't see the club we love dying, or becoming so unrecognizable. Yeah it'll change along the way, but as long as fans keep on passing on the same messages and ideals that the club has always stood for then it won't go anywhere. 

[royhendo]

*Puts FS on ignore*

If you're going to put someone on ignore, just put them on ignore. Please don't be a tart's handbag about it.

Anyway, I back the manager, and I'm naturally wary of the owners. Hope that's OK with yous.

[Wingman]

..... your talking shite.

No, you're talking shite.

Quality posting on here this evening, fair play to you both

[Fat Scouser]

If you're going to put someone on ignore, just put them on ignore. Please don't be a tart's handbag about it.

Anyway, I back the manager, and I'm naturally wary of the owners. Hope that's OK with yous.

I'm a white, single female. I like Pina Colada and walks in the rain. Or I'm off me fucking head fighting these aul man's sciatica blues....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGKs7dhPgWo

[Greg]

If you're going to put someone on ignore, just put them on ignore. Please don't be a tart's handbag about it.

Anyway, I back the manager, and I'm naturally wary of the owners. Hope that's OK with yous.

Ah, but what's Stevie G's best position?

[Fat Scouser]

The corporate side of football has just become more explicit in how it goes about making money. Every owner in the clubs history has looked to extract every last farthing, penny & £ from the supporters. We're now dealing in $$$s. Same story, different author. They're brasher, more direct and more efficient in his they go about generating their profit.

It's harder to take when someone tells you they are going to take your money, the tells you they are taking your money and then tells you they have taken your money. Then ask you to smile and say thank you.

The open commercialisation & commodification of football is like strip mining or fracking. It's a greed is good mentality where everything has a price and nothing has value.

The appropriation of the traditional liverbird crest for the new home jersey wasn't about a return to traditional values, it was a rebranding exercise designed to sell more gear under the pretence.

The photographs of Rodgers alongside Shankly pictures were another attempt to hijack history and attempt to sell a new manager as a ready made icon by association.

The reason they do it is because it works. People want to have their hopes and dreams and memories sold back to them. People buy into all that crap. We all do in some way. It's how advertising works. It's his political spin now operates to sell ideology packaged as policy. It's how the press creates the news instead of reporting it.

You can sell anything if you first of all create the demand for it. We're experiencing the process of our club being repackaged and sold back to us piece by piece. At an inflated price of course.

Buy into if you want. Your decision. I won't be. Don't need it. Lfc to me is the sum total of my experiences good and bad supporting this great club. I'll continue to support it - but it will increasingly be an idealised version I'll hold onto for as long as I can. I'll open my eyes one day and won't recognise it I'm sure.

The lad nailed it. It's just the way it is. Come the start of the season, I'll still be watching it. I'll still be throwing wobblers over it. Bloody snooker loopy that fella

[tony new mexico]

The problem is that the marketing machine is necessary for there to ever be any more nights like Istanbul.

Come on mate, For fucks sake.

[geoffstrong]

Anyway, I back the manager, and I'm naturally wary of the owners. Hope that's OK with yous.

Succinct and spot on Roy exactly where I am right now!

[DyingAtheist]

Come on mate, For fucks sake.

Again, please do explain how that's not true?

[geoffstrong]

Please, how am I wrong?

Different league but did PSG win the French league, did bayern Munich win the   Bundersliga, not just marketing and money required is it. It is not all about the money otherwise we can all fuck off we know the champions before a ball is kicked!

[steveeastend]

Again, please do explain how that's not true?

Football is more than marketing. It sounds simply but it´s pretty important to remember.

There is a difference in putting the emphasis on football first or looking at the club as a big merchandising machine being located in sports/football with success/winning being ONE possibility in order to make money.

There is a difference between people from the club talking about the football or the importance of an america trip.

You know what I mean? It already has started and Rodgers has a massive job in front of him as it shows how much of "footbal" they have in mind when thinking of the club. It´s not to their credit that he probably will suprise many people and hopefully even more..

[tony new mexico]

Again, please do explain how that's not true?

Im not that smart and besides that, i would'nt know where to begin.

[Greg]

The problem is that the marketing machine is necessary for there to ever be any more nights like Istanbul.

I agree with you mate. We need to take whatever we can get. £25m a year off Warrior? I remember we used to say "that's one Fernando Torres every year". Doesn't always work like that of course. But the marketing is all about making money. The more money that we make, the more successful we can be. Anyway, I'd rather have it than not have it.

That's not to say I love all this. Of course I don't. But footy is like this today.

Edit: We still don't know how much of these revenues goes in FSG's pockets, and how much goes in the transfer budget. But I'd rather they did it than not doing it. Man U did it in the early 90s and left everyone behind.

[Reds4Life]

The corporate side of football has just become more explicit in how it goes about making money....

You can sell anything if you first of all create the demand for it. We're experiencing the process of our club being repackaged and sold back to us piece by piece. At an inflated price of course.

Buy into if you want. Your decision. I won't be. Don't need it. Lfc to me is the sum total of my experiences good and bad supporting this great club. I'll continue to support it - but it will increasingly be an idealised version I'll hold onto for as long as I can. I'll open my eyes one day and won't recognise it I'm sure.

Fantastic post rola lad.

Very succinct and insightful.

Just have a few quick things to say.

We are Liverpool Football Club supporters. Nothing more.

We have been raised generation through generation to eat, breath, sleep, talk, walk anything and everything about Liverpool Football Club.

We have followed Liverpool Football Club all around the world, doing everything we could to just taste the experience of presence at one of these mythical and magical nights bestowed and passed down to us from our proud history.

Little idiosyncratic rituals certain families have honoured on their way to Anfield for the last 35 years still being followed religiously to this day.

Irrespective of who the owners are, my love for watching Liverpool Football Club play in any game will never be dimmed.

If we were relegated, I wouldn't walk away.

If we were relegated again, I would keep the faith.

An owner?

You see, for all the marketing hyperbole in the world, the fact remains that there is a blood red shirt we follow and which we expect the players who represent us appreciate, respect and honour.

What is an absolute is that I will be following Liverpool Football Club for 38 premier league games guaranteed just as my family has for the last 120 years.

[DyingAtheist]

I'm not trying to suggest that money is all that matters, however, we're in a league with the likes of City and Chelsea, and it's very naive to think we're about to claim the title again without some decent cash in our pocket.
In order to try (at least a little bit) to keep up with the aforementioned teams, we need the marketing machine and all the crap that comes with it. That's how football is.

Without it, we slip down the table, we don't get another shot at a night like Istanbul and all the footballing spirit and heart in the world won't get us there.
I'm not saying I like it, or money is all you need (Just need to see City getting ruined in the Champs League to see that) but it soon won't be possible to hit dizzying heights without said money.

[DyingAtheist]

Fantastic post rola lad.

Very succinct and insightful.

Just have a few quick things to say.

We are Liverpool Football Club supporters. Nothing more.

We have been raised generation through generation to eat, breath, sleep, talk, walk anything and everything about Liverpool Football Club.

We have followed Liverpool Football Club all around the world, doing everything we could to just taste the experience of presence at one of these mythical and magical nights bestowed and passed down to us from our proud history.

Little idiosyncratic rituals certain families have honoured on their way to Anfield for the last 35 years still being followed religiously to this day.

Irrespective of who the owners are, my love for watching Liverpool Football Club play in any game will never be dimmed.

If we were relegated, I wouldn't walk away.

If we were relegated again, I would keep the faith.

An owner?

You see, for all the marketing hyperbole in the world, the fact remains that there is a blood red shirt we follow and which we expect the players who represent us appreciate, respect and honour.

What is an absolute is that I will be following Liverpool Football Club for 38 premier league games guaranteed just as my family has for the last 120 years.

This is exactly the point I've been trying to make (Earlier), just, well, done far more succintly.

[Reds4Life]

Without it, we slip down the table, we don't get another shot at a night like Istanbul and all the footballing spirit and heart in the world won't get us there.

You completely contradicted yourself all in the same sentence there.

How exactly did we get to Istanbul that season?

[Reds4Life]

This is exactly the point I've been trying to make (Earlier), just, well, done far more succintly.

Funny because I was actually writing it to refute what you were saying.

[DyingAtheist]

You completely contradicted yourself all in the same sentence there.

How exactly did we get to Istanbul that season?

Didn't contradict myself at all.
Heart is all well and good, and it served us well in Istanbul. But Istanbul is a long time ago now, and the footballing landscape has changed entirely. In order to hit such heights again we need the money that comes in from marketing, without it we simply won't get there again, not sure how that's complicated.
As for your other post; my point from the start has been that despite the marketing of the club, the plastification of it if you will, that the same red heartbeat is still there underneath it all and that will never go away. Marketing and all the other stuff is a necessary evil but it still doesn't change the foundation of the club we love.

[SWRC]

If the game all boils down to money and marketing it just won't be the beautiful game no longer in my eyes. The beauty lies in its unpredictably on pitch and off the pitch. As an avid Rangers fan, i like many am looking forward to a fresh start in the 3rd division. Fuck the money and all the moneymen who run the club before, we live on.