Author Topic: Time to roll the dice  (Read 5155 times)

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2012, 01:42:56 PM »
Technically it becomes clear after seeing a player, whether he has it in him or not. Add to that, the Liverpool pressure and a player with poor technique is easily singled out. Also, I am not sure about the 70s and 80s but since I have been watching it has been the trend. About Skrtel and Reina, the talent was there to see immediately, and mistakes a few were ironed out due to the mental fortitude shown, but I stand by the fact that get more technically gifted players in and you wont fall short. We made half-hazard decisions in the market last year without doubt, and reap as we sow.
Downing has good technique. Just too inhibited to use it consistently. Can he be coached at this stage of his career to utilise it better? It'a mentality issue with him deffo. Henderson too has good enough technique. Same issue with him I fear. Enrique? Not sure, unbalanced and brainless on occasion particularly going forward. Carroll has good technique for a big fellah, underrated in that department for me. I prefer to give them another season before passing judgement based on experience of seeing many players in the past take time to settle at the massive institution our football club is.
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Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2012, 01:56:31 PM »
I think people are over-complicating this. It isn't about risks, or lack of football vision. Each of Kenny, Rafa and now Rodgers know their football. It isn't like we didn't throw money around in last ten years, barring the last seasons of the cunty americans H&G.
For me, it is simple. You either buy bad players or you buy good players. By this I mean technically gifted players. In Rafa's time we bought on an average more players with excellent technique and skills, we profited. In the last season we spent crazy amounts on mediocre players.
I think more than risk, it is the fact where you know whether a player is technically good or not, and if the sum of those in the squad aren't technically good, especially in the forward areas which has been our problem (barring Suarez) we will suffer.
People don't have the guts to call a bad player bad, at times it backfires like it did with Lucas, but barring Lucas I have yet to see a Liverpool player who came in, showed bad technique and then went on to achieve great things and sudden improvement in technique levels.
So, for me it is simple, get the squad balance correct with more technically qualified players in and you will succeed. Also, worth noting is that by technique, I mean both in the mind and on the pitch.
I like to add that technically gifted don't just mean players who can dribble or perform 200 step-overs on average every 90minutes, rabonas, trivelas, Cruijff turns and the like. Any player that shows an excellent maturity in performing their particular skillset, whether it be a Ronaldo, a Carragher, De Lap, the John Terrys, Silvas etc.. of this world, are "technically gifted". Whether they're tough tacklers, hoof-n-hope, best-in-the-air, "mad skillz" type of players.

At football level, we need to get the basics right and the whole will be that much easier to direct and this comes as a result of a plan first and foremost... only afterward- at the precipice, do we take the big risks.

We already had a plan with Rafa and when we reached the precipice and it became time to gamble and take a risk- giving him a lump-sum to get us the title the next season and boost our coffers, we chose the wrong bet- "Asset-stripping".

Andy Carrol e.g- is a "technically gifted" player and for that reason, simply because there isn't anyone else like him around, he is worth holding onto. He's a pearl and you don't just throw your pearls before swine. We need to work out something with him, because he's not your average "failure". It's like sifting through the mud for all the gems and putting these few gems aside- one-by-one until we've assembled a team of highly skilled, technically excellent players. Some of the bests among their ranks. In the meantime, you get them to play as part of a team, according to a plan and discipline and allow them to utilise their skillsets, and during individual battles, they should be able to win most of the time.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 02:11:57 PM by the_red_pill »

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Offline Vidocq

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2012, 05:04:07 PM »
Carroll is a pearl?

you can find bunch of big, slow,amateurish ball control, no movement players out there

probably the price tag, and his name constanly being repeated, has affected into some people's subconscious mind to define him as "the next big thing"

thats the only logical explanation
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 05:06:11 PM by Vidocq »
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Offline Carlos: Very Kickable

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2012, 05:26:25 PM »
You're missing my point which is usual fayre with you. Your rather unbalanced op declared it was time to take risks. I've argued we've been doing it for years with fuck all to show for it. What we needed was stability. We had it twice with Rafa and Kenny but both times were fucked by those who did not have a clue the damage they were doing.You get me? And you can fuck off with your 5th, 6th, 7th, shizer. That was not the op.

I've read your posts again twice and it's you who is missing the point.

Im sorry you found my reply to your post such a chore and you obviously have a problem with me  - not sure why as even reading through some of your previous posts I don't know you from Adam - do feel free to put me on your ignore list - I will do my best to struggle on without your valuable, sage and well thought out contributions  :wave
I know you struggle with reading comprehension Carlitos, but do try to pay attention

Offline Carra-ton

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2012, 05:29:37 PM »
Carroll is a pearl?

you can find bunch of big, slow,amateurish ball control, no movement players out there

probably the price tag, and his name constanly being repeated, has affected into some people's subconscious mind to define him as "the next big thing"

thats the only logical explanation
I would say Carroll is a decent striker, and I would say he would be a handy Premier League Striker, but he is no where near what we need. He can attack the ball, and has a mean left foot when given space to strike, but he can't create his own space, nor his hold up play is as good as it should be for the role he plays. He also, falls on his arse for no apparent reason a lot. But, he is certainly premier league level, just not top 4 material.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 05:32:33 PM by Carra-ton »
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Offline Carra-ton

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2012, 05:30:58 PM »
Downing has good technique. Just too inhibited to use it consistently. Can he be coached at this stage of his career to utilise it better? It'a mentality issue with him deffo. Henderson too has good enough technique. Same issue with him I fear. Enrique? Not sure, unbalanced and brainless on occasion particularly going forward. Carroll has good technique for a big fellah, underrated in that department for me. I prefer to give them another season before passing judgement based on experience of seeing many players in the past take time to settle at the massive institution our football club is.
Downing is the one example they should use in coaching classes to show how a player with good touch, good pace and good strike can still turn out to be useless if he doesn't have a football brain with vision.
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Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2012, 05:39:23 PM »
I've read your posts again twice and it's you who is missing the point.

Im sorry you found my reply to your post such a chore and you obviously have a problem with me  - not sure why as even reading through some of your previous posts I don't know you from Adam - do feel free to put me on your ignore list - I will do my best to struggle on without your valuable, sage and well thought out contributions  :wave

Why would I ignore you? Can't take a bit of constuctive criticsm? Word to the wise. Want to get the RAWK 'scribe' monika you crave? Justify better. Weigh both sides before coming to a conclusion. Elaborate, don't pontificate. In short, A+ for word count. B- for content.

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Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2012, 05:45:03 PM »
Downing is the one example they should use in coaching classes to show how a player with good touch, good pace and good strike can still turn out to be useless if he doesn't have a football brain with vision.

Contradicts what you were saying before but I agree with this sentiment. My question is, it to late for him to be schooled by a young, innovative , coach who can see potential in him because he has the attributes he requires for his 'model?'
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Offline Carlos: Very Kickable

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2012, 06:04:08 PM »
Why would I ignore you? Can't take a bit of constuctive criticsm? Word to the wise. Want to get the RAWK 'scribe' monika you crave? Justify better. Weigh both sides before coming to a conclusion. Elaborate, don't pontificate. In short, A+ for word count. B- for content.

“I'm sorry I wrote you such a long letter; I didn't have time to write a short one.” ― Blaise Pascal



This is my last reply to you about this but thankyou for the advice - reading through your past post history guess how I would grade them?

What makes you think I havent weighed both sides? If you hadn't noticed it's a footballing discussion forum where we present our opinions - the weight of replies and quality of writing provide balance as required.

A word to the condescending, you should think more before you write - I know it's tempting to tap tap away on the keyboard but it would help distill your arguments into a more cogent form, it might actually give you something original to say and it would definitely prevent you looking such an ass in public.  ;)
I know you struggle with reading comprehension Carlitos, but do try to pay attention

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2012, 06:06:40 PM »

This is my last reply to you about this but thankyou for the advice - reading through your past post history guess how I would grade them?

What makes you think I havent weighed both sides? If you hadn't noticed it's a footballing discussion forum where we present our opinions - the weight of replies and quality of writing provide balance as required.

A word to the condescending, you should think more before you write - I know it's tempting to tap tap away on the keyboard but it would help distill your arguments into a more cogent form, it might actually give you something original to say and it would definitely prevent you looking such an ass in public.  ;)

Good advice. Taken on board.
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2012, 06:10:01 PM »
My gambling analogy was in response to the op's claim that we had been playing safe and now was the time for risk taking. Houllier was a risk. Hodgson was an enormous risk, surely? Rafa was a risk that paid off yet we blew the winnings. I concur that replacing Kenny, who had steadied the ship but was not allowed enough time to set a new course, is a huge gamble especially replacing him with an unproven manager albeit with decent form in handicaps. He is now in training for a classic.
I think the point is more in how we think. Hodgson was a totally 'safe' appointment, in the sense that it absolutely chimed with the 'received wisdom' of football. The general football establishment was more or less unanimous that it was a great idea, ditto buying Joe Cole, ditto sacking Rafa, ditto playing Gerrard in CM, ditto giving Carra a new contract. With the fans it's also similar. I don't remember many fans thinking of Dalglish as a risk, he was seen by many as a 'safe' appointment. At the time we hired him maybe we didn't have many choices, but it certainly wasn't a particularly creative solution, it was the completely obvious one.

I think what the OP is referring to is more stuff like, for example, Houllier daring to sell Fowler for a pretty damn big fee. Rafa with the rotation system, Rafa's change in formation, making Gerrard a forward, taking on Heighway at the academy.

It's trying ideas that others don't think of, daring to take a new approach that should work but hasn't been tried yet - think Arrigo Sacchi at Milan, for example. That's certainly something I agree with. We have less money, a worse squad, and we're a distance behind our theoretical rivals for the top. We sure as hell aren't going to beat them at their own game because they will, to take just one example, beat us to the best players for their systems every single time. On the other hand if we play a different system, if we take an approach that others don't dare to try, we don't need to compete for 'their' players, we need players that fit our system. Think about, say, Fernando Torres - now I know he wasn't exactly 'blue sky' thinking, to use an awful phrase, but would he have been the lethal player he was for any other team in any other system? Ditto with Pepe Reina. Other teams didn't really need a sweeper-keeper but for us he was the best in the world at what he did.

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Offline Carra-ton

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2012, 06:12:08 PM »
Contradicts what you were saying before but I agree with this sentiment. My question is, it to late for him to be schooled by a young, innovative , coach who can see potential in him because he has the attributes he requires for his 'model?'
Not really a contradiction, I said that technique is as much in the mind as in the feet. If you can't see things there is no point even if you are a sprinter. That is where Alonso was 100 miles ahead of everyone else, his brain was like a computer that could analyse everything that will happen in the next few seconds.
I think at 27, he isn't going to suddenly turn in to a player who can do things that a Ronaldo or Messi does or have vision like Xavi or Xabi. It is more getting him to believe in himself and hope for the best.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 06:14:56 PM by Carra-ton »
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2012, 06:12:39 PM »
Mein Keimpf is well written...
I seriously, hugely, profoundly doubt that.
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Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2012, 06:41:02 PM »
I think the point is more in how we think. Hodgson was a totally 'safe' appointment, in the sense that it absolutely chimed with the 'received wisdom' of football. The general football establishment was more or less unanimous that it was a great idea, ditto buying Joe Cole, ditto sacking Rafa, ditto playing Gerrard in CM, ditto giving Carra a new contract. With the fans it's also similar. I don't remember many fans thinking of Dalglish as a risk, he was seen by many as a 'safe' appointment. At the time we hired him maybe we didn't have many choices, but it certainly wasn't a particularly creative solution, it was the completely obvious one.

I think what the OP is referring to is more stuff like, for example, Houllier daring to sell Fowler for a pretty damn big fee. Rafa with the rotation system, Rafa's change in formation, making Gerrard a forward, taking on Heighway at the academy.

It's trying ideas that others don't think of, daring to take a new approach that should work but hasn't been tried yet - think Arrigo Sacchi at Milan, for example. That's certainly something I agree with. We have less money, a worse squad, and we're a distance behind our theoretical rivals for the top. We sure as hell aren't going to beat them at their own game because they will, to take just one example, beat us to the best players for their systems every single time. On the other hand if we play a different system, if we take an approach that others don't dare to try, we don't need to compete for 'their' players, we need players that fit our system. Think about, say, Fernando Torres - now I know he wasn't exactly 'blue sky' thinking, to use an awful phrase, but would he have been the lethal player he was for any other team in any other system? Ditto with Pepe Reina. Other teams didn't really need a sweeper-keeper but for us he was the best in the world at what he did.

If we pandered to the 'general football establishment' as fans then we would have appointed Harry. That would not have been a risk. To consider Hodgson a  'safe' bet purely on those lines is ill conceived. Back his appointment, yes, for that is what we do but puff out your cheeks and go, 'are you sure'? It was a huge risk.

This misconception that we have not thought 'outside of the box'  before was dispelled by Rafa's appointment. It did and it didn't work. It brought us CL success but no PL, however close we got. Just as we had settled down with a safe pair of hands, looking to kick on we were thwarted by outside forces as was Kenny. And this is my point. You need stability first and foremost. Give a manager one season then fire him if he doesn't deliver? That's not risk that's ridiculous.

Now, we have taken a calculated risk with BR. I agree with you we need innovation a la Sacchi. But this takes time. He needs to be allowed to fail and learn from his mistakes. That's not risk, that's common sense. Building from scratch is not risk until those in control get wafty and demand success quicker than planned. Then you move to gambling, taking a punt. That's not risk that's fucking madness.
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Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2012, 06:48:38 PM »
I seriously, hugely, profoundly doubt that.

Fucking hell, mate...context of the post I was replying to...what am I, a nazi?
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Offline SirCliveWolfe

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2012, 07:10:13 PM »
There is risk in any move

btw. I'm talking hyphoetically here, but all these courses of action would have carried some risk;

1- Rafa stays and is given 5 years to win the league [this is a risk because if he doesn't its 2015 and were still nowhere]

2- Giving Kenny a 3 year contract at the end of 2010-11 season [this is a risk because if you sack him next year it costs a fortune and you've 'wasted' a year]

3- Sacking Kenny at the end of the 2011-2012 season [this is a risk as the manager you bring in may not be up to the task]

4- Signing Fernando Torres [This is quite a big risk because even though my mom knew he was good, he may have broken his leg in training on day 1 and never played again] 

So everything decision taken is a risk, I think the OP positioned his argument incorrectly, he was saying 'take a big risk' by say giving BR 5 years not matter the results, but to some extent giving BR those 5 seasons may be just as big a risk.

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2012, 07:36:06 PM »
Fucking hell, mate...context of the post I was replying to...what am I, a nazi?
Of course not. I got the point of the post, but I still seriously doubt it. I'm a massive pedant - a better joke (at least for my taste) might have been 'Martin Amis books are well written', for example! ;)
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2012, 07:48:45 PM »
If we pandered to the 'general football establishment' as fans then we would have appointed Harry. That would not have been a risk. To consider Hodgson a  'safe' bet purely on those lines is ill conceived. Back his appointment, yes, for that is what we do but puff out your cheeks and go, 'are you sure'? It was a huge risk.
Wasn't Harry at Spurs by then?

Also of course it was a huge risk, that's the whole point I think you might be missing. I can't speak for the OP but I certainly wasn't talking about risk (though I don't think he was, not in the sense you mean anyway). Pretty much any big decision carries massive risk. Point was that appointing Roy wasn't imaginative. It was a completely, if you like, 'mainstream' idea to have. It was not in any way creative. It wasn't the kind of idea no-one else would have thought of. Playing Gerrard as a forward though - who the hell ever thought of that before Rafa went and actually did it? That's what I'm talking about. Rafa saw in him a set of attributes that no-one else had seen in those terms, took the risk - the INFORMED risk - of moving him further up the pitch, a decision plenty of our fans and most of the rest of the football world saw as batshit crazy. We all know the results. That's the kind of decision I'm talking about, and I suspect the OP was too. Again, it's exactly the kind of decisision that Hodgson and Kenny didn't make, very different managers but both were totally about 'established' thinking. Neither managed in an original way, one way or another they were trying to play the same old game with inferior resources. The best we ever could have hoped for from either of them was to be a crappier version of the teams above us, unless we got some massive cash injection from somewhere. Between them, they did a pretty good job of undoing almost all of the truly cutting-edge stuff that Rafa had us doing, replacing it with variations of the same sort of stuff every other British team does.
Quote
This misconception that we have not thought 'outside of the box'  before was dispelled by Rafa's appointment. It did and it didn't work. It brought us CL success but no PL, however close we got. Just as we had settled down with a safe pair of hands, looking to kick on we were thwarted by outside forces as was Kenny. And this is my point. You need stability first and foremost. Give a manager one season then fire him if he doesn't deliver? That's not risk that's ridiculous.
The two aren't mutually exclusive - once you find the right talent, you give them time. That's where we failed with Rafa. Also, it did work, absolutely emphatically. Not winning the prem shouldn't constitute failure for us to anyone who doesn't have ludicrously unrealistic and over-inflated expectations. We succeeded massively under Rafa and there is no better proof of that then how Rafa's (at the time) 'crazy' ideas are now pretty much footballing orthodoxy among a great many top international and club sides.
Quote
Now, we have taken a calculated risk with BR. I agree with you we need innovation a la Sacchi. But this takes time. He needs to be allowed to fail and learn from his mistakes. That's not risk, that's common sense. Building from scratch is not risk until those in control get wafty and demand success quicker than planned. Then you move to gambling, taking a punt. That's not risk that's fucking madness.
This last part I do agree with, for sure, but it's the innovation that's really important, and that's where we, as a club, have utterly and completely failed since Dalglish left the first time, barring only Rafa's time in charge. Even then, his innovations were staunchly resisted by the club's heirarchy, the entire football media and general establishment, and by a depressingly massive number of our fans. That last point is exactly what the OP is getting at too - if BR really is an innovator, just watch how many toys fly out of prams the first time he actually does something innovative. By comparison, it's interesting that most of Dalglish's approaches and decisions, barring the odd team selection, met with general approval - at least so it seemed to me. In any walk of life, un-creative decisions are generally pretty warmly welcomed by the majority. The key bit is distinguishing the innovative from the idiotic, and that is, or course, where research comes in, so you can make informed decisions about stuff - another area we utterly failed in hiring Hodgson.
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Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2012, 07:54:26 PM »
Of course not. I got the point of the post, but I still seriously doubt it. I'm a massive pedant - a better joke (at least for my taste) might have been 'Martin Amis books are well written', for example! ;)

I know that, mate. Fucking Hell, I could have said Iain Banks, or even Enid fucking Blyton.  Can't believe I'm trying to justify this...Yes, you are a pedant.
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Offline Carlos: Very Kickable

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2012, 07:56:35 PM »
I know you struggle with reading comprehension Carlitos, but do try to pay attention

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2012, 08:36:48 PM »
Wasn't Harry at Spurs by then?

Wasn't Hodgson at Fulham? Your point?

[/quote]Also of course it was a huge risk, that's the whole point I think you might be missing. I can't speak for the OP but I certainly wasn't talking about risk (though I don't think he was, not in the sense you mean anyway). Pretty much any big decision carries massive risk. Point was that appointing Roy wasn't imaginative. It was a completely, if you like, 'mainstream' idea to have. It was not in any way creative. It wasn't the kind of idea no-one else would have thought of.[/quote]

The op was about taking risks and how we, as a club, should embrace that mantra as if it was something alien to us over the years. It was not rocket science to point out we had already been down that road and now was the time for stability not risk. You may be mising my point therefore but I won't hold it against you as I get what you are saying. Again, I would countenance that Roy was not 'safe' unless you buy into the mainstream ideal. Fucking mainstream Liverpool fans went, 'hang on a minute, that's a fucking lot to swallow' at the time. Didn't you?

The two aren't mutually exclusive - once you find the right talent, you give them time. That's where we failed with Rafa. Also, it did work, absolutely emphatically. Not winning the prem shouldn't constitute failure for us to anyone who doesn't have ludicrously unrealistic and over-inflated expectations. We succeeded massively under Rafa and there is no better proof of that then how Rafa's (at the time) 'crazy' ideas are now pretty much footballing orthodoxy among a great many top international and club sides.

If we are now, as FSG decree, just in the business of top 4 then CL is our benchmark. You believe winning not the PL does not constitute failure. I disagree, vehemently. Is it impossible to win the PL without a shed load of cash? Who knows, has aanyone tried to build a squad over time that can stay together long enough to mount a challenge? No. Can we? Yes, given said time.

Risk and gambling and throwing the dice, see where they land is foolhardy and like putting on the euromillions...one day, one day. Let's hope we play the safe option of allowing a coach to nurture a squad, young, old and indifferent, instill in them a philosophy, a belief in themselves and those around them. Most importantly, let's hope the manager is given time to implement and is given the safety net of making mistakes without rancour or abuse. Do you believe that is posible at our club?.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 09:28:23 PM by vivabobbygraham »
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Offline Asam

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2012, 10:55:19 PM »

Risk is an emotive word, perhaps using something more acceptable like innovation would be better? the concept is the same, we have to do something different, if all the teams play the same way, with the same tactics/systems the club with the most resources usually wins, and right now that's not us, so we have to find a way to shift the paradigm-

Wenger did it when he introduced the 2 big beast holding midfielders, that changed football for a while
United have constantly re-invented themselves to great success
Swansea showed under BR that it was possible for a small team to win matches against the top teams and dominate possession with what appeared to be largely journeymen

So, we are in good hands but could do with some wedge to make it easier

Offline keyo

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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2012, 02:10:43 AM »
Wasn't Harry at Spurs by then?

Also of course it was a huge risk, that's the whole point I think you might be missing. I can't speak for the OP but I certainly wasn't talking about risk (though I don't think he was, not in the sense you mean anyway). Pretty much any big decision carries massive risk. Point was that appointing Roy wasn't imaginative. It was a completely, if you like, 'mainstream' idea to have. It was not in any way creative. It wasn't the kind of idea no-one else would have thought of. Playing Gerrard as a forward though - who the hell ever thought of that before Rafa went and actually did it? That's what I'm talking about. Rafa saw in him a set of attributes that no-one else had seen in those terms, took the risk - the INFORMED risk - of moving him further up the pitch, a decision plenty of our fans and most of the rest of the football world saw as batshit crazy. We all know the results. That's the kind of decision I'm talking about, and I suspect the OP was too. Again, it's exactly the kind of decisision that Hodgson and Kenny didn't make, very different managers but both were totally about 'established' thinking. Neither managed in an original way, one way or another they were trying to play the same old game with inferior resources. The best we ever could have hoped for from either of them was to be a crappier version of the teams above us, unless we got some massive cash injection from somewhere. Between them, they did a pretty good job of undoing almost all of the truly cutting-edge stuff that Rafa had us doing, replacing it with variations of the same sort of stuff every other British team does.The two aren't mutually exclusive - once you find the right talent, you give them time. That's where we failed with Rafa. Also, it did work, absolutely emphatically. Not winning the prem shouldn't constitute failure for us to anyone who doesn't have ludicrously unrealistic and over-inflated expectations. We succeeded massively under Rafa and there is no better proof of that then how Rafa's (at the time) 'crazy' ideas are now pretty much footballing orthodoxy among a great many top international and club sides.This last part I do agree with, for sure, but it's the innovation that's really important, and that's where we, as a club, have utterly and completely failed since Dalglish left the first time, barring only Rafa's time in charge. Even then, his innovations were staunchly resisted by the club's heirarchy, the entire football media and general establishment, and by a depressingly massive number of our fans. That last point is exactly what the OP is getting at too - if BR really is an innovator, just watch how many toys fly out of prams the first time he actually does something innovative. By comparison, it's interesting that most of Dalglish's approaches and decisions, barring the odd team selection, met with general approval - at least so it seemed to me. In any walk of life, un-creative decisions are generally pretty warmly welcomed by the majority. The key bit is distinguishing the innovative from the idiotic, and that is, or course, where research comes in, so you can make informed decisions about stuff - another area we utterly failed in hiring Hodgson.

I don't disagree with the thrust, but I don't see how your assertions equate to the risk and the op. innovation, like change, carries some element of risk....as do all decisions.....thinking outside the box, doing the new or unheard of, taking the less trodden route...whatever you call it, it is not necessarily gambling

Plan, informed decision making, this can be innovative as your examples show, this is what we need....not gambling, not innovation for innovations sake...but planned progression based on informed decisions

Planning is what mitigates risk, not what plunges you into it.....jumping into the unknown without being informed or exploring options, that is gambling in decision making....and it is not progressive or what we need....
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Re: Time to roll the dice
« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2012, 02:44:01 AM »
Alouette, gentille alouette, Alouette, scousers alouette  .....I've had more in depth conversations, gutted-ness and joy in one look than this roll a dice bollocks of a paragraph-a-monologue, that you so well chat the groove with......




« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 02:48:02 AM by CHOPPER »
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