Author Topic: John Terry Cleared of Racially Aggravated Public Order Offence (Read 22425 times)

bleedsred1978 · « **Reply #400 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:20:25 PM »

So the guy with the black grandfather, who uses a word commonly used in his own country in an non racist context, who spoke said word in his own native Spanish tongue and whom there was zero evidence against bar the word of the accuser is racist, yet the English bloke who is seen by millions around the world uttering the phrase black c*nt and who actually admitted using the phrase isnt?

Gotta love that..

SP · « **Reply #401 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:20:46 PM »

Quote from: Hazell on July 13, 2012, 03:17:22 PM

Given the level of abuse, not necessarily racist, that's come out in this episode, the FA surely have to investigate.

There is sworn testimony about abuse from both parties. The only defence that Terry would have to a charge of abusive behaviour would be that he had committed perjury. I would like to see him try that.

HighSix · « **Reply #402 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:21:18 PM »

Quote from: Hazell on July 13, 2012, 03:17:22 PM

Given the level of abuse, not necessarily racist, that's come out in this episode, the FA surely have to investigate.

I think its more likely they will have a player-to-player respect campaign out for the start of the season, they would have known detail & language that would be public for a while now.

AnyGivenSunday · « **Reply #403 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:21:42 PM »

When the allegation is of a serious nature - which any accusation of racism undoubtedly is - it is only right that an appropriate standard of proof is applied (beyond reasonable doubt). When it comes to verbal assaults, it is not just the mere utterance of a word(s), but the context in which it is said. From what's been reported, and as is obviously implied by the not guilty verdict, there was doubt as to whether Terry directed the words as an insult. The correct decision was made.

As a matter of principle, I don't think the FA should investigate any allegation of racist abuse using their much lower standard of proof (the balance of probabilities), but as we know only too well, they have set a precedent with the Suarez/Evra case and I think it would be unacceptable for them to not now carry out their own investigation.

Crosby Nick · « **Reply #404 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:22:41 PM »

From the initial FA statement:

'It is alleged that Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules.

'It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra.'

Now ignoring the racist element for a moment: based on that first charge, and then the evidence heard in the Terry case it would seem that if the FA were being consistent they'd have to charge several players a game.

I know they won't, and I'm being facetious for the sake of it but just another example of the double standards. I can feel my heckles are rising (whatever/wherever they are) so I'll leave this thread alone now I think.

Renato · « **Reply #405 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:23:09 PM »

Waiting for the FA to call a press conference to announce that Terry has been re-awarded the England captaincy and given the Victoria Cross for bravery

SMD · « **Reply #406 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:23:38 PM »

DavidAllenGreen: Not far off. RT @MalcBoughen: @DavidAllenGreen Isn't the #Terry judgement very like a "not proven" verdict in Scottish law?

emitime · « **Reply #407 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:23:49 PM »

Very good law blogger David Allen Green:

David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen
"No reason, on basis of #Terry judgment, that FA cannot make adverse finding on lower standard of balance of probabilities.

It would appear to me from detailed #Terry judgment that judge would have convicted on balance of probabilities but not reasonable doubt."

Kovai Red · « **Reply #408 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:24:21 PM »

I am disgusted

U13 · « **Reply #409 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:28:29 PM »

Quote from: LFC_4_life on July 13, 2012, 03:13:23 PM

I think he said it as well in the heat of the moment and I don't think he is a racist. Many people feel the same about Suarez as well. The reality is that on the "balance of probablilities" both man can be legitamately found guilty. Beyond reasonable doubt however, both man are not guilty due to lack of evidence.

This is basically the same as the Suarez case except, Suarez was found guilty in a kangaroo court and Terry was found not guilty in a real court.

It isn't the same as the Suarez case.

In the Suarez case we had a Frenchman who speaks a bit of Spanish initiating a conversation with a native Spanish speaker in Spanish who took the meaning of a Spanish word for the meaning of an offensive word in Italian whilst in England.

That was the most obvious difference and the most significant in my opinion.

Black c*nt is offensive in any language.

Red Genius · « **Reply #410 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:32:14 PM »

Quote from: U13 on July 13, 2012, 03:28:29 PM

It isn't the same as the Suarez case.

In the Suarez case we had a Frenchman who speaks a bit of Spanish initiating a conversation with a native Spanish speaker in Spanish who took the meaning of a Spanish word for the meaning of an offensive word in Italian whilst in England.

That was the most obvious difference and the most significant in my opinion.

Black c*nt is offensive in any language.

The context was rightly explored in the magistrates, if i were to kill a man who was threatening me with a knife, is that murder? no - it's not because of the context. Terry's defence provided reasonable doubt by the placement of the context they put it in, whether the events actually took place like that is irrelevant because it could not be proven other wise, hence reasonable doubt.

timmyonions · « **Reply #411 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:33:05 PM »

Sky sports news reporters can hardly breath with the excitement of the John Terry acquittal.

"The Drama in that courtroom was like nothing we've seen before.All the cup finals,title deciders but none compare the tension in that courtroom."

What a bunch

Bob Loblaw · « **Reply #412 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:33:35 PM »

Only thing that would be surprising in all of this would be if the FA took any action at all.

LFC_4_life · « **Reply #413 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:33:41 PM »

Quote from: U13 on July 13, 2012, 03:28:29 PM

It isn't the same as the Suarez case.

In the Suarez case we had a Frenchman who speaks a bit of Spanish initiating a conversation with a native Spanish speaker in Spanish who took the meaning of a Spanish word for the meaning of an offensive word in Italian whilst in England.

That was the most obvious difference and the most significant in my opinion.

Black c*nt is offensive in any language.

You completely fail to understand both cases. Both Terry and Suarez admit to using words which in a certain context can be considered racist. Both Terry and Suarez claim that the context in which those words were used were not racist. Both have a fair point and without any witnesses who can verify the context in which those words were used by both men, they would both be found not guilty in a court of law.

On the balance of probabilities, in a heated arguement/slanging match, you can find both men guilty.

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #414 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:37:30 PM »

He said what he said. I don't really care how it came about. He admitted it too. If he isn't banned for using such language then its another sign that the FA are completely incompetent once again.

Ickle Girl · « **Reply #415 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:40:12 PM »

Quote from: Upinsmoke on July 13, 2012, 03:37:30 PM

He said what he said. I don't really care how it came about. He admitted it too. If he isn't banned for using such language then its another sign that the FA are completely incompetent once again.

Exactly my thoughts.

Bangin Them In · « **Reply #416 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:41:19 PM »

Reflection of our society that this blert is even in the news.

Just be a disregarded redneck elsewhere.

Ryan M · « **Reply #417 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:46:55 PM »

Has anyone seen Paul Elliot's interview on SSN?

He's getting told what to say in one ear whilst hearing questions from Jim White in his other!

ABJ · « **Reply #418 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:47:40 PM »

Complete and utter joke, the evidence is clear as day

HighSix · « **Reply #419 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:48:07 PM »

Quote from: Bangin Them In on July 13, 2012, 03:41:19 PM

Reflection of our society that this blert is even in the news.

Just be a disregarded redneck elsewhere.

not really, public figure in court has been newsworthy since the middle ages.

U13 · « **Reply #420 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:48:24 PM »

Quote from: LFC_4_life on July 13, 2012, 03:33:41 PM

You completely fail to understand both cases. Both Terry and Suarez admit to using words which in a certain context can be considered racist. Both Terry and Suarez claim that the context in which those words were used were not racist. Both have a fair point and without any witnesses who can verify the context in which those words were used by both men, they would both be found not guilty in a court of law.

On the balance of probabilities, in a heated arguement/slanging match, you can find both men guilty.

I haven't failed to misunderstand either case but I think you're missing my point, yes they both admitted to using words that could be deemed offensive but only one of them used words that is indefinitely offensive.

The context is important but let's look at the context of what Terry said, he said he was responding to being accused by Ferdinand of calling him a 'black c*nt' which doesn't make sense seen as Ferdinand said he didn't even hear Terry say it so determining whether or not Terry was being truthful about saying he heard the accusation to me is the key point of his defence.

Red Genius · « **Reply #421 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:52:15 PM »

Quote from: U13 on July 13, 2012, 03:48:24 PM

I haven't failed to misunderstand either case but I think you're missing my point, yes they both admitted to using words that could be deemed offensive but only one of them used words that is indefinitely offensive.

The context is important but let's look at the context of what Terry said, he said he was responding to being accused by Ferdinand of calling him a 'black c*nt' which doesn't make sense seen as Ferdinand said he didn't even hear Terry say it so determining whether or not Terry was being truthful about saying he heard the accusation to me is the key point of his defence.

Which you cannot allow yourself to make a subjective decision upon, and the only way to allow yourself to come to an objective decision is through the evidence, and there wasn't enough - hence reasonable doubt.

That's the legal system, we don't encourage convictions based on how you feel about the situation, but the facts.

Il Capitano · « **Reply #422 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:52:39 PM »

The FA won't charge him because there is no public outcry. They couldn't give less of a toss about racism.

capt_methane · « **Reply #423 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:59:12 PM »

They'll probably Knight him now. Joke of a decision

sinnermichael · « **Reply #424 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:59:49 PM »

talkshite now asking if he should be reinstated as england captain

ABJ · « **Reply #425 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:00:16 PM »

Quote from: bleedsblue1978 on July 13, 2012, 03:20:25 PM

So the guy with the black grandfather, who uses a word commonly used in his own country in an non racist context, who spoke said word in his own native Spanish tongue and whom there was zero evidence against bar the word of the accuser is racist, yet the English bloke who is seen by millions around the world uttering the phrase black c*nt and who actually admitted using the phrase isnt?

Gotta love that..

Nail on the fucking head.

andyrol · « **Reply #426 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:02:53 PM »

the FA have been seen to be making a stand against racism by banning luis ( much like they were seen to be making a stand against abusing refs when mascherano was banned) they will now forget about it ( racism) and let all other cases blow over until the next media lead 'injustice' arrives. my guess, homophobia. ( and it'll probably be liverpool again when danny agger tells torres to " get up you puff" after cracking him with his forearm again!!

kcbworth · « **Reply #427 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:03:16 PM »

Ah well not much can be done. Terry isn't the issue here. The issue is the completely unjust and slanderous treatment of Suarez by the FA, something I still don't understand why hasn't been taken to CAS, or Suarez hasn't sued the FA.

Forget about Terry.

Mouth · « **Reply #428 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:04:10 PM »

Will Anton be shaking his hand when they next meet?

Hazell · « **Reply #429 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:06:04 PM »

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/NewsAndFeatures/2012/john-terry-130712.aspx

Further to today's court verdict in relation to John Terry, The FA made the following statement:

"The FA notes the decision in the John Terry case and will now seek to conclude its own enquiries. The FA will make no further comment at this time."

Bob Loblaw · « **Reply #430 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:06:47 PM »

Quote from: Mouth on July 13, 2012, 04:04:10 PM

Will Anton be shaking his hand when they next meet?

robgomm · « **Reply #431 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:17:15 PM »

Quote from: emitime on July 13, 2012, 03:23:49 PM

Very good law blogger David Allen Green:

David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen
"No reason, on basis of #Terry judgment, that FA cannot make adverse finding on lower standard of balance of probabilities.

It would appear to me from detailed #Terry judgment that judge would have convicted on balance of probabilities but not reasonable doubt."

^this.

Full judgement here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/interactive/2012/jul/13/john-terry-trial-full-judgment

Worth a scan through, underlines the extent to which this could have gone the other way. I'd say he's probably guilty but that wasn't enough here.

Dubit10 · « **Reply #432 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:21:43 PM »

Am i surprised? No

Am i disgusted? Yes

Most of us called it from day one. Suarez would be hung out to dry and the Terry case would be made seem like a misunderstanding.

Wonder will that parcel Paul Mc Grath come out and complain about Cole defending Terry, will fcuk he will.

Redrider · « **Reply #433 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:33:44 PM »

On the basis of this trial result, there is absoulutely no doubt that had Suarez had a proper trial in open court with proper legal representation then he too would have been proved not guilty.

The FA have been shown up for the phoney 'politically influenced' organisation that they are!

Alex Raisbeck · « **Reply #434 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:51:19 PM »

Quote from: andyrol on July 13, 2012, 04:02:53 PM

the FA have been seen to be making a stand against racism by banning luis ( much like they were seen to be making a stand against abusing refs when mascherano was banned) they will now forget about it ( racism) and let all other cases blow over until the next media lead 'injustice' arrives. my guess, homophobia. ( and it'll probably be liverpool again when danny agger tells torres to " get up you puff" after cracking him with his forearm again!!

Nah,homophobia has been done already-Fowler (Liverpool again!!) and Le Saux (poor old Chelsea),I reckon it's UEFAs turn to have another crack at us-this time a 'xenophobia' charge instigated by Platini.

jamie_c · « **Reply #435 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:55:50 PM »

Quote from: Redrider on July 13, 2012, 04:33:44 PM

On the basis of this trial result, there is absoulutely no doubt that had Suarez had a proper trial in open court with proper legal representation then he too would have been proved not guilty.

The FA have been shown up for the phoney 'politically influenced' organisation that they are!

Lots of bullshit on this thread but you are 100% correct. It's a shame that a Utd fan did'nt complain to the police at the time.

rhylred · « **Reply #436 on:** July 13, 2012, 04:59:34 PM »

Can't believe rent a quote Clark Carlisle not been mentioned in thread or been on sky yet,or is he waiting for his major moment on bbc 3 next week!!!

something awful · « **Reply #437 on:** July 13, 2012, 05:03:08 PM »

You know one day all the terrible things John Terry had done throughout his life will come back and get him.

Strange decision, looked like an open and shut case to me. The legal industry strikes again.

Andy @ Allerton · « **Reply #438 on:** July 13, 2012, 05:03:23 PM »

I believe the FA will issue a statement like "This was done in a court of law and that's good enough for us"

They don't want racism to be seen as evident in English football. They've had their field day and their scapegoat. Nothing else will be done by them ever in this posters opinion. They've stuck their fingers up at Blatter and shown themselves to be righteous and wonderful.

Makes you sick. But not a massive surprise.

Alex Raisbeck · « **Reply #439 on:** July 13, 2012, 05:04:53 PM »

Quote from: rhylred on July 13, 2012, 04:59:34 PM

Can't believe rent a quote Clark Carlisle not been mentioned in thread or been on sky yet,or is he waiting for his major moment on bbc 3 next week!!!

Didn't he say today that if Terry was found guilty then Chelsea should sack him? I'm sure Carlisle will sleep sound tonight safe in the knowledge that John Terry is only sarcastically racist. Pair of c*nts.