Topic: Doping In Sport..

[Pheeny]

A General Thread for discussion of Doping in ALL sports. 

[Dread Breath]

Cheers man - been one of these springing off from previous TDF threads in years past. 

Won't be a contributor here though - been argued to death in previous threads. Thanks anyway. 

[jaybeezay]

Couldn't care less. Let them all get on with it. Don't see why substance x is legal but substance y isn't.

[gazzalfc]

Always a grey area and controversial subject.

It always depends on the sport and individual.

Certain sports do have their reputation (cycling and athletics) but rules are there.

If you are a professional sports player then you should either be professional to know them or professional enough to have someone there who does.

[gazzalfc]

Couldn't care less. Let them all get on with it. Don't see why substance x is legal but substance y isn't.

Try telling that to the relay players who have had their medals stripped because 1 guy was doping.

It is interesting that premiership footballers have only ever been charged with recreational drug use (we may never know what duckface would have tested positive for).

[TepidT2O]

Couldn't care less. Let them all get on with it. Don't see why substance x is legal but substance y isn't.

Substance x is natural and safe, substance y is a controlled medicine that could kill you?

Just a thought!

[Phil M]

Dope in sport....

[Brian Blessed]

[BFM]

Substance x is natural and safe, substance y is a controlled medicine that could kill you?

Just a thought!

Not really. Decisions to ban certain substances but not others have commercial as well as strategic/political motivations.

[INABITSKI]

Simon Clancy ‏@SiClancy
Bradley Wiggins rightly goes livid in the post race presser when asked if he's doping......
Wiggins: "I say they're just f*cking wankers. I cannot be doing with people like that...
"It justifies their own bone-idleness as they can't ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives..
It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that shit, rather than get off their arses.....
...and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something. And that's ultimately it. C*nts."

Simon Clancy ‏@SiClancy

I hope it wasn't @patrickchico who asked that question. Mark Cavendish already hates him.

 

[Djibriliant]

e=mc2

[rowan_d]

Simon Clancy ‏@SiClancy
Bradley Wiggins rightly goes livid in the post race presser when asked if he's doping......
Wiggins: "I say they're just f*cking wankers. I cannot be doing with people like that...
"It justifies their own bone-idleness as they can't ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives..
It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that shit, rather than get off their arses.....
...and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something. And that's ultimately it. C*nts."

Simon Clancy ‏@SiClancy

I hope it wasn't @patrickchico who asked that question. Mark Cavendish already hates him.

 

Ha. Instant legendary status for me

[INABITSKI]

Ha. Instant legendary status for me

Was for me years ago when he called out those clowns in Big Brother.

[jaybeezay]

Try telling that to the relay players who have had their medals stripped because 1 guy was doping.

It is interesting that premiership footballers have only ever been charged with recreational drug use (we may never know what duckface would have tested positive for).

Like I said, let them get on with it. If it wasn't illegal then the others wouldn't have been stripped. You have to assume there are people doing it that are undetected despite the best efforts of authorities so level the playing field.

[Prof]

Doping has to be banned.

If substances that artificially improve performance are allowed, in order to be competitive you would have to take them.  The amount to take to be the best would then increase, and it would run to a point where people would risk their lives.

Sports that require skill as the greatest determinant of success are less likely to suffer from doping than physiological sports like cycling and athletics. Although beta blockers and other similar drugs have been used by archers and other fine motor control sports.

Football has had its own fair share of performance drug use.  Particularly EPO in Italy.  It's possible more goes on as footballers are not as thoroughly tested as others like track and field athletes.

[Jimmy Conway]

Ive heard the argument to let sportspeople dope so that they are not always chasing the cheats. What a load of rubbish that is. If i was good enough to compete at a high level I wouldn't dope as I truly believe its wrong and dangerous, but I would never be able to compete and earn a crust.

[BIGdavalad]

Like I said, let them get on with it. If it wasn't illegal then the others wouldn't have been stripped. You have to assume there are people doing it that are undetected despite the best efforts of authorities so level the playing field.

Sport's supposed to be about how good/fast/skilled you are, not how good your chemist is.

[HighSix]

Im not a doctor  but I always have questioned how good Messi would have been if he had not received the growth hormone treatment he had as a kid. Its a difficult line between treatment giving a person a better or normal life but what about a possible unfair advantage?

*I am not calling Messi a drug cheat, superhuman or anything like that just a genuine pattern of thought I have had before... & use Messi as an example

[Pheeny]

Im not a doctor  but I always have questioned how good Messi would have been if he had not received the growth hormone treatment he had as a kid. Its a difficult line between treatment giving a person a better or normal life but what about a possible unfair advantage?

*I am not calling Messi a drug cheat, superhuman or anything like that just a genuine pattern of thought I have had before... & use Messi as an example

There is a difference between medicine prescribed by a Doctor to a child and doping given to a sportsman. 

[vicgill]

Sport's supposed to be about how good/fast/skilled you are, not how good your chemist is.

Exactly, I used to love watching all sports but I can't be bothered anymore, especially athletic and the tour de France, Just waiting for the first noable footballer to be found outl.

[HighSix]

There is a difference between medicine prescribed by a Doctor to a child and doping given to a sportsman.

Im not sure I really want to go into with any player as the example.... but say its 'player A' & their legal treatment if funded by a club (at any age) that they go on to play for is their not an issue there?

[TepidT2O]

There is a difference between medicine prescribed by a Doctor to a child and doping given to a sportsman. 

It's not messi's fault, growth hormone is given to kids in the US routinely if they think they could have a career in sport.

However, the fact it's prescribed by a doctor does not make it acceptable.
Personally I think it's the great uncovered scandal of sport, I also think its astounding that we are giving kids drugs like this.

Now, I can't speak about messi's situation directly, but I would be truely shocked if he would still have been given growth hormone and wasnt a candidate for a professional sporting career.

[Jimmy Conway]

It's not messi's fault, growth hormone is given to kids in the US routinely if they think they could have a career in sport.

However, the fact it's prescribed by a doctor does not make it acceptable.
Personally I think it's the great uncovered scandal of sport, I also think its astounding that we are giving kids drugs like this.

Now, I can't speak about messi's situation directly, but I would be truely shocked if he would still have been given growth hormone and wasnt a candidate for a professional sporting career.

My nephew is being given them, not because he wants to be a pro athlete. Its just so he aint small and that his organs wont be too big for his frame.

[TepidT2O]

My nephew is being given them, not because he wants to be a pro athlete. Its just so he aint small and that his organs wont be too big for his frame.

Quite... And it's a risk worth taking.

Doing it so you have a bigger frame that will better allow a kid to play professional sport isn't.

I have a relation(ish) who was given hormones purely for sporting reasons as a kid.... Of course he was classified as having growth problems, but he was fully aware that this wasn't true.

He suffered various problems as a result of having an oversized frame and this lead to him having a serious injury....

[dave 5516]

Couldn't care less. Let them all get on with it. Don't see why substance x is legal but substance y isn't.

How about Liverpool not winning the league for another 20 year's? Because that's what will happen with unrestricted financial doping.

Unless we are bought by one of the Bin-Saud's that's what will happen without ffp.

On sports people being allowed to dope the exact same thing applies,those with the best doctor's win,those who can't afford the same type of peds are also ran's.

Sport's supposed to be about how good/fast/skilled you are, not how good your chemist is.

No need to say anything else.

[dave 5516]

I've seen what allowing doping in a sport look's like.A fucking joke.

Yet the punishment's in that sport are severe and correct.Unlike in football,Kolo Toure's recent positive is an automatic 2 year ban.Not a cuddle and a slap on the wrist which is what he got.

A 6 month backdated ban for a diuretic is laughable.Water tablet's are used to mask steroid use there's no other reason for an athlete to use them.

Anyone who has ever worked out with weight's properly can tell you who has had a "jab" in the gym.I watched a game in the prem this year and was amazed at the obvious sign's of HGH use,long jaw's huge forehead's and yet football's clean.

And rugby's even worse.

These are just my opinion's based on year's working out,(cleanly) cycling and of watching sport.Just because they don't test positive doesn't mean their clean.Ask Marion Jones.

[dave 5516]

A General Thread for discussion of Doping in ALL sports. 

Ta.

[dave 5516]

Exactly, I used to love watching all sports but I can't be bothered anymore, especially athletic and the tour de France, Just waiting for the first noable footballer to be found outl.

How about Toure Vic?

[red annie]

Im not a doctor  but I always have questioned how good Messi would have been if he had not received the growth hormone treatment he had as a kid. Its a difficult line between treatment giving a person a better or normal life but what about a possible unfair advantage?

*



I am not calling Messi a drug cheat, superhuman or anything like that just a genuine pattern of thought I have had before... & use Messi as an example

From what I know, Messi was abnormally small as a kid. It is normal (now and then) to give kids as small as Messi was Growth Hormone.

If it is accepted normal practice to give a drug for a medical problem, then generally it is acceptable to do so; particularly if the athlete is out of competition.

It can be quite complicated because many normal drugs used routinely in modern medicine are banned, however there are different rules for what is allowed in or out of competition. Messi had GH as a kid, under medical supervision, with all the doping control people knowing what was happening. Just like many other kids of small stature.

[TepidT2O]

From what I know, Messi was abnormally small as a kid. It is normal (now and then) to give kids as small as Messi was Growth Hormone.

If it is accepted normal practice to give a drug for a medical problem, then generally it is acceptable to do so; particularly if the athlete is out of competition.

It can be quite complicated because many normal drugs used routinely in modern medicine are banned, however there are different rules for what is allowed in or out of competition. Messi had GH as a kid, under medical supervision, with all the doping control people knowing what was happening. Just like many other kids of small stature.

But I was abnormally small as a kid....

Because I had short parents.... I was never going to be tall, and I suspect messi was the same as me....

That's just a guess of course, but did he have a genuine reason to take growth hormones?  I would suspect not.

Mind you, he's innocent, not his fault, but I would be very interested to see how many other players Barça have done this with.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Doping has to be banned.

If substances that artificially improve performance are allowed, in order to be competitive you would have to take them.  The amount to take to be the best would then increase, and it would run to a point where people would risk their lives.

Sports that require skill as the greatest determinant of success are less likely to suffer from doping than physiological sports like cycling and athletics. Although beta blockers and other similar drugs have been used by archers and other fine motor control sports.

Football has had its own fair share of performance drug use.  Particularly EPO in Italy.  It's possible more goes on as footballers are not as thoroughly tested as others like track and field athletes.

Think most people agree with that - the real difficult area is financial doping.

Is it fair that one athlete can afford to train at altitude for example - which has similar effects to EPO - and another can't?

[J_Kopite]

But I was abnormally small as a kid....

Because I had short parents.... I was never going to be tall, and I suspect messi was the same as me....

That's just a guess of course, but did he have a genuine reason to take growth hormones?  I would suspect not.

Mind you, he's innocent, not his fault, but I would be very interested to see how many other players Barça have done this with.

At the age of 11, he was diagnosed with a growth hormone deficiency. (wiki)

[dave 5516]

Wasn't Messi a talented kid before he went to Barcelona for the treatment?

If so wouldn't it have been in his and the club's interest to give him this treatment,as opposed to just treating a small untalented kid?

Barcelona aren't acting altruistically then are they?

[red annie]

But I was abnormally small as a kid....

Because I had short parents.... I was never going to be tall, and I suspect messi was the same as me....

That's just a guess of course, but did he have a genuine reason to take growth hormones?  I would suspect not.

Mind you, he's innocent, not his fault, but I would be very interested to see how many other players Barça have done this with.

By all accounts he had documented growth hormone deficiency, rare but not unheard of. Diagnosed aged 11. He came from a very poor background and his family couldn't afford the medical bills, GH is mega expensive. Barcelona offered to pick up the tab.

If he had come from a nice middle class family he would have received the normal treatment and no one would have thought twice.

Lets be sensible about this, he is not exactly Mr Universe now, height is 5'7". GH has just ensured that he has a normal if small stature; this would have been impossible without.

[redtel]

Couldn't care less. Let them all get on with it. Don't see why substance x is legal but substance y isn't.

Jay: Your text reads: Keeping it real while playing it safe

Nothing real or safe about drugs mate.

 It's a make believe world and far from safe.

[kaz1983]

For all Australian RAWKites there is a really good documentary called 'The Race' on Tuesday 8:30pm.

It's on SBS.

It's about the 1988 Seoul Olympic's 100m final. The most doped up 100m final in history.

Looks really good.

[Something Awful]

This Lance Armstrong stuff fascinates me. Such a shame that he felt he had to cheat to win, I wonder how he would have done without it.

[TepidT2O]

This Lance Armstrong stuff fascinates me. Such a shame that he felt he had to cheat to win, I wonder how he would have done without it.

But so many have cheated in cycling that you wonder if there was a way of winning without it.

It's all very well with people getting angry if people ask if they're clean, but when virtually every top person in your sport has been caught at it, it's not really surprising that people assume guilt.

That's what devalues sport, it devalues the achievements o those who do it the hardest way.

[pewithree3]

cyclists,
athletes,
weight lifters,
skiers,
snooker players,
rugby players,
american footballers

all the above came to mind without too much thought,
some think that doping is a new problem.
About a 100 years ago an Italian running in the olympic marathon
collapsed just before the finishing line, he was found to have taken
strychnine which was a regular thing at that time.

Not so long ago the English rugby union sent out a memo to all clubs
with 5 groups of banned substances.
Many years ago when I was involved with cycle racing there were over
400 substances on the banned list.

[Coolie High]

Snooker Players?

There problem is more to do with recreational drugs isn't it?