Topic: Lucas Leiva - Up and Running

[liverpooll]

Lucas has been elevated to some kind of demi-god level DM over here.

He's good but he aint THAT good yet.
We have missed him but I hope people don't expect him to return from this injury and then miraculously start bossing the midfield single handedly.

He's a good player, but nowhere near the best in his class. Let's keep expectations real here - or be prepared to be disappointed when his performances dont match our too-high expectations.

You are speaking too much sense for RAWK.

He's been destroying the Chelsea midfield since the 10/11 season (easily), has the entire Man City midfield in his pocket, makes Scholes and Co shit their pants and is only really given the run around by Modric.  He had the best stats for a holding/defensive midfielder in the 10/11 season in all five of the top European leagues, and in the 11/12 season despite only playing for half of it, his stats put him in the top three of every holding/defensive midfielder category, and topping a few of them.

Really, maybe explain then why did we finish in mid-table in all those seasons? And why single out few matches and where it was the team who played well? And what about those away matches against those top 4 teams? Is there a trophy for the best tackling stats?

[Tsar Kastik]

If there was a trophy for 'stupid'......

[The 5th Benitle]

If there was a trophy for 'stupid'......

It would have to be shared by the two blokes above

[liverpooll]

It would have to be shared by the two blokes above

Unfortunately, seeing the last 3 seasons, it seems many at RAWK are in the wrong. But hey, if you do not want to believe in reality, then I can't do much. 

[Get]

You are speaking too much sense for RAWK.Really, maybe explain then why did we finish in mid-table in all those seasons? And why single out few matches and where it was the team who played well? And what about those away matches against those top 4 teams? Is there a trophy for the best tackling stats?

Yeah because Individual performances of a player reflect the teams over all performance. So if We end up mid table, that means Lucas ain't that good. nothing to do with strikers being shite

May lord have mercy on your soul

[The 5th Benitle]

Unfortunately, seeing the last 3 seasons, it seems many at RAWK are in the wrong. But hey, if you do not want to believe in reality, then I can't do much. 

If you think our league positions are down to Lucas Leiva, which is what you're implying, you are clinically insane.

[Sangria]

You are speaking too much sense for RAWK.Really, maybe explain then why did we finish in mid-table in all those seasons? And why single out few matches and where it was the team who played well? And what about those away matches against those top 4 teams? Is there a trophy for the best tackling stats?

Have you actually looked at our record against top teams with Lucas in the team? I thought the myth of Lucas not being up to it against top midfields had been well and truly debunked, but it seems some still believe in it.

Notable away results against "big teams" with Lucas in the team.

Inter 0 Liverpool 1 (CL)
Chelsea 4 Liverpool 4 (CL)
Man Utd 1 Liverpool 4 (PL)
Chelsea 0 Liverpool 1 (PL)
Arsenal 1 Liverpool 1 (PL)
Arsenal 0 Liverpool 2 (PL)
Chelsea 1 Liverpool 2 (PL)
Chelsea 0 Liverpool 2 (LC)

In at least 3 of these games Lucas was indisputably the best Liverpool player on the pitch.

[steveeastend]

It will take until january at least to have him back anywhere near the level he was before the injury. Unfortunately that´s pretty normal after recovering from such a bad injury he picked up because of having to play too many games in row for almost one and a half seasons without having a break.

I just hope the people in charge learned the lesson, two days recovery is NOT enough for a professional football as it was to be seen as well in the euro final. Two italians picked up injuries because of having to play after only two games rest.

[Il Capitano]

Really, maybe explain then why did we finish in mid-table in all those seasons? And why single out few matches and where it was the team who played well? And what about those away matches against those top 4 teams? Is there a trophy for the best tackling stats?

Where to even start..

You do know the difference between playing those big teams and playing the smaller teams in the league, right? It's all about expectations. When big teams play each other, they both expect to win the match. They play to win. As a result, the space opens up at either end of the pitch, and the game descends into a midfield battle. When you play a smaller team, they expect to lose and so grab onto any point they can take from the match: it becomes a battle of breaking through a defence with ten committed players behind the ball. As an example, the reason Rafa's 08/09 team did not win the title was the difference here: the midfield was capable of dominating in any big match we played whilst the team struggled to beat the smaller teams that put men behind the ball.

When you talk about Lucas, you're talking about a player that has demonstrated in recent years his ability in dominating the midfield in big games with big performances. That is why he is a valued asset to our team. When you talk about the team's midtable finishes, you're talking about our inability to put the smaller teams away. There's a difference there that you aren't acknowledging: dominating the midfield is not important when playing a smaller team, as they often purposefully relinquish control of it in exchange for the safety net of defensive shape.

Putting together the harmony of a team that can both dominate the big matches as well as win the small ones ruthlessly is the key to success in the league. Lucas provides an excellent influence at the heart of the midfield, because he is capable of both dominating the midfield play of the big matches as well as working passing sequences against the smaller teams. When you can't put the smaller teams away due to the lack of attacking quality, you aren't talking about our Brazilian volante.

[Red Crown]

Really,

Yes, really.

[Drake31]

i hope like many around here we get decent  cover for lucas this trasfer window

[Fauxy]

Claims that we over rate Lucas are stupid.

At the start of last season and through the season before the last there was no defensive mid in the premier league like him and few around Europe that where around his level.

If anything i think he is still under rated. I bet most people around england would say the best defensive mid would be the media lovechild that is Scott parker.. who is a good player. Lucas is on another level to him though.

[Carra-ton]

If Lucas played for Chelsea, Spurs or God forbid manchooster yernited, he would have been Jesus Christ, the fact that the media recognize him, tells you what he has in him.
He definitely has taken his game to a new level. His tackling is superb, his passing is great, and though he doesn't have the legs of a Yaya Toure, his reading more than makes up for it. I can't believe people are still questioning this. Same shit, different year.

[lorenzo23]

Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard believes that Lucas Leiva’s  season-ending knee injury was one of the main reasons why the Reds endured a disappointing 2011-12 campaign.

The Brazil international hit top form just before rupturing the anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee against Chelsea last November, leaving manager Kenny Dalglish with very few midfield options for the remainder of the season.

The 25-year-old made his comeback for Liverpool against Toronta FC in a pre-season friendly last weekend, and again came off the bench against Tottenham Hotspur in Baltimore on Saturday.

''Lucas' injury was a big factor on our season, because when he got the injury he was probably our best player, form-wise,'' Gerrard told the club's official website.

''He was playing superbly well, and he plays that position in the team where he does the ugly work, the work you don't really like to do: breaking up the play, protecting the back four, and when we lose the ball and teams counter-attack, he stops a lot of goals.

''It's great to have him back. He's a great person; he's great for the squad."

That is from a man that use to avoid passing the ball to Lucas speaks volumes of what a player Lucas is, if that is overacting in your eyes fair enough.

[RJH]

Really, maybe explain then why did we finish in mid-table in all those seasons? And why single out few matches and where it was the team who played well? And what about those away matches against those top 4 teams? Is there a trophy for the best tackling stats?

Hold on a minute.

You dismiss the idea that Lucas did well because the team didn't. But you also dismiss specific examples of Lucas doing well because the team did well.
So in your world,
If the team does badly, Lucas playing well doesn't count.
If the team does well, Lucas playing well doesn't count.


Well, there's clearly no point in trying to discuss Lucas with you.

[The 5th Benitle]

Well, there's clearly no point in trying to discuss Lucas with you.

Or Henderson, if you dare to brave that topic.

[simsim]

Anyone else notice Lucas's understandable reluctance to use his left foot at the moment?  Prior to his injury has was able to ping passes with both his left and right foot, but so far i don't recall him using his left at all to pass.  Completely understandable, and may be by-instruction while his leg and knee strengthen?

LOL his leg is strong enough to run and twist and turn playing football but not strong enough to pass a ball? Think what you saying man.

[KirkVanHouten]

Or Henderson, if you dare to brave that topic.

All our players are crap. To suggest otherwise is crazy RAWK hyperbole.

[Rohit]

What a load of shite posted in here over the past page or 2. Yup all of players must be crap as we finished 8th, doesn't matter that we've had only one competent central midfielder all season, but he must be overrated even though he's positionally exceptional, best first touch in the squad probably and great intelligent passing.

[sgt bilbo]

He is the player raffa always knew he was going to be, in his position there isn't many better in Europe, the stats prove it, he has turned into a great DM.

[mtred1984]

LOL his leg is strong enough to run and twist and turn playing football but not strong enough to pass a ball? Think what you saying man.

I can half understand what the poster was getting at, ie could be hesitant to put all his weight on the knee which suffered. Certainly happened to me after I done my cruciate.

[Believe]

You are speaking too much sense for RAWK.Really, maybe explain then why did we finish in mid-table in all those seasons? And why single out few matches and where it was the team who played well? And what about those away matches against those top 4 teams? Is there a trophy for the best tackling stats?

[steveeastend]

LOL his leg is strong enough to run and twist and turn playing football but not strong enough to pass a ball? Think what you saying man.

You obviously have no clue on playing football do you? But this has sort of a long tradition in this thread..

Lucas is a top player and it will take him for sure until january to get him anywhere near the level he was before. Patient required..

[The Flying Pig]

Someone put some stats on here recently,with Lucas playing we averaged 1.83 points per league game last season.

Without him it was 1.15 points.

[GrkStav]

Someone put some stats on here recently,with Lucas playing we averaged 1.83 points per league game last season.

Without him it was 1.15 points.

In all honesty, those descriptive statistics do not prove anything at all. I am a huge Lucas fans, know for a fact that he always adds to our side whenever he's on the pitch, and that we missed him terribly after his injury, etc. but I can't let this misuse of statistics go. :-)

[LiverpoolKopKings]

After that horrific injury he had, we must stop scaring him like this otherwise he might have a heart attack 

[gandalf50]

You are speaking too much sense for RAWK.Really, maybe explain then why did we finish in mid-table in all those seasons? And why single out few matches and where it was the team who played well? And what about those away matches against those top 4 teams? Is there a trophy for the best tackling stats?

Why did Forest get relegated with Roy Keane in the team, yet the mancs won everything while he was in their midfield. No matter how good you are, you need the right team around you. Only Maradona proved that theory wrong at Napoli. No one else has single handedly carried an entire team.

[Hazell]

Lucas buoyed by Rodgers chat

Lucas Leiva has explained how the encouragement he's received from new manager Brendan Rodgers has helped spur him on in his quest to regain full fitness.

The Brazil midfielder made his long-awaited return from a seven-month injury absence during Liverpool's North America tour, figuring in the friendly clashes with Toronto, Roma and Tottenham.

While stateside, Rodgers spoke in glowing terms about Lucas, insisting the 25-year-old will be a 'brilliant player' for him during his time at the Anfield helm.

Lucas claims such words have provided him with a confidence he can return to the fold stronger than ever in 2012-13.

"On my first day back in Liverpool, he (Rodgers) spoke with me and said I was in his plans," the Reds No.21 told Liverpoolfc.com.

"Those words helped me to relax a little bit more because he was a new manager coming in and everyone wants to impress. I was coming back from an injury and knew I wouldn't be at the same level as the other players.

"It gave me the confidence to progress slowly and I am really happy to have his support from the beginning."

Lucas continued: "When a manager says great things about you, it always gives you extra confidence and motivation - but I was already motivated enough. I am at a big club and very happy to play for this club.

"It's just a question of time and being patient. He has been very important from the first day."

Lucas's return to action was one of the main plusses of Liverpool's trip across the pond.

His substitute appearance against Toronto FC was the first time he had taken to the field since sustaining a knee injury in a Carling Cup tie at Chelsea in November of last year.

Lucas admits it's been a long and testing road to recovery, but is steadfast in his belief he can comeback a better player.

"I am very happy to be back and be able to play football again," he said. "I am enjoying every single minute of the (training) sessions and the games too.

"I am looking forward to having a great season. It was a long rehab and six or seven months out, so I was very excited to play again.

"Of course, there is still a lot of work to be done, but I am looking forward to getting my confidence back and being 100 per cent as soon as possible.

"To be honest, I've always respected - and tried to give everything for - my career in my sessions in terms of work. But of course, an injury like I had just makes you stronger and maybe makes you change the way you think about a few things.

"As I said, it was a long rehab, but I think it will be worth it in my career. I am really happy to be back."

Having notched up 183 appearances for the club, Lucas was one of the more experienced players in the squad that travelled to North America as Rodgers handed a clutch of Liverpool youngsters a chance to shine.

One man who made the most of his opportunity was Jonjo Shelvey - and Lucas was among those impressed by the performance levels of the 20-year-old.

"Jonjo is a young player, but he's been with us for two or three season so we have seen every day he has a lot of quality and I think he will be a very good player for this club," he said.

"He has been very impressive in pre-season and I am looking forward to helping him when he wants me to. Hopefully he will be a great addition this season.

"My advice to him would be just to keep working hard and when he gets a chance, to try and take it.

"He has a little bit of experience already and played a few games last season, so I think he won't have a problem when he has his chance - and I will try to help him on the pitch."

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/lucas-buoyed-by-rodgers-chat

[bleedsred1978]

Lucas really is fucking Boss isnt he...

Top lad.

[koolkamal]

"He has been very impressive in pre-season and I am looking forward to helping him when he wants me to. Hopefully he will be a great addition this season.

"My advice to him would be just to keep working hard and when he gets a chance, to try and take it.

"He has a little bit of experience already and played a few games last season, so I think he won't have a problem when he has his chance - and I will try to help him on the pitch."

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/lucas-buoyed-by-rodgers-chat

The bit in bold just epitomises Lucas.

[scatman]

yep, its why the youngsters love him too probably

[The Jackal]

Lucas is just too fucking boss for words.

If Jonjo wants to succeed as a top-level midfielder, then there's no better examples for him to follow than Lucas and Gerrard.

[Salty Dog]

You guys have way too much patience for dealing with fools like macmanamanaman and liverpooll. I'd probably do something like tell them to do us all a favor and off themselves and get myself banned. So, I don't respond and let you all show them up for the fools they are. I really do admire you for trying to educate the ignorant.

[Reds and Revs]

After that horrific injury he had, we must stop scaring him like this otherwise he might have a heart attack 

Hey, you try "The Borini".....its a little scary the first time you try it....

[Paul-LFC]

Unfortunately, seeing the last 3 seasons, it seems many at RAWK are in the wrong. But hey, if you do not want to believe in reality, then I can't do much. 

Plenty "believe in reality" as you put it, it's just that the reality is nowhere near what you think it is. Here's some actual reality for you:





Courtesy of Anfield Index, dealing in facts and reality.

[hide5seek]

Allen would be a brilliant foil for Lucas. Can partner him and take his place if Lucas needs a rest.

[Sangria]

Plenty "believe in reality" as you put it, it's just that the reality is nowhere near what you think it is. Here's some actual reality for you:





Courtesy of Anfield Index, dealing in facts and reality.

You're just picking out stats from Lucas's best period, and ignoring his overall performance. Oh hang on, that article was written before the superman period just before his injury, so it actually misses out his best performances. So if the article was written a week and a bit afterwards, after the League Cup game against Chelsea, it would be even more flattering to Lucas, as it would include him dominating the likes of Torres (again), Yaya Toure, Silva and co.

[Hazell]

Plenty "believe in reality" as you put it, it's just that the reality is nowhere near what you think it is. Here's some actual reality for you:

I just don't think that's the type of reality that liverpooll wants.

[carling]

dealing in facts and reality.

There are plenty of reasons Lucas was a great performer for us before his injury.  But none of them can be shown on a pie chart.

[spider-neil]

What does the second chart mean?