Topic: Man gets 162 years in prison for robbery

[Immoral King Brian Blessed]

Yeah, but he didn't kill anyone. He's been convicted of armed robbery, not murder. If he had killed someone we wouldn't be having this argument becuase I'd accept the sentence.

But he did try, at least.

"According to the trial transcript, one of Davis's accomplices testified that he fired his weapon on two occasions - at the dog who chased him and 11 days later outside a Wendy's restaurant they had just robbed. He said Davis traded gunshots with a customer at the restaurant as he and three others sped away in their getaway car."

[gregor]

Yeah I know that. It's not the fact that he feels he's been hard done by that I've got issue with. It's the fact that I don't agree with the sentence in the first place.

[gregor]

But he did try, at least.

Why wasn't he done for attempted murder then?

[blurred]

His parents should be imprisoned for giving him that first name alone.

The reason it's such a long (and seemingly strange and arbitrary figure) is that you get 7 years for your first violent offence while possessing a firearm, and life (25 year) terms for each subsequent conviction. He was convicted of 7 armed robberies, which is how they arrived at the figure. This has been the case in federal cases since the 1980s, so such 'mandatory minimums' are hardly something new.

There seems to be some suspicious handling of the case in terms of his gang being offered plea-bargains (they all got between 9 and 22 years for the same offences) while he claims he was never offered the chance, and the fact that it's their testimony alone which seems to have convicted him, but I don't think he's really deserving of much sympathy for carrying out 7 armed robberies and supposedly discharging his gun during two of them.

[Immoral King Brian Blessed]

Why wasn't he done for attempted murder then?

How would I know?


I don't have a particular problem with the sentence, but I do think there should be a possibility of parole.

[El Campeador]

Were we allowed to go on armed robberies over there? Gutted I didn't know really, I'd have come home with a lot more than some Saddam money, knock off DVDs and 200,000 fags.

A US marine accused over the killing of 24 Iraqi civilians in the city of Haditha was demoted to the rank of private but will serve no time behind bars, a military spokesman has said.
 
Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich was sentenced to 90 days confinement but he will not serve it for procedural reasons, the spokesman said

BAGHDAD — Iraqis were outraged Tuesday to learn that the Marine considered the ringleader of a 2005 massacre that left 24 of their countrymen dead in 2005 was sentenced on Tuesday to a reduction in rank but avoided any jail time after pleading guilty the day before to a reduced charge.

“This is not new, and it’s not new for the American courts that already did little about Abu Ghraib and other crimes in Iraq,” said Khalid Salman, 45, whose cousin was killed by the Marines in the massacre, which occurred in the town of Haditha in November 2005.

For the past nine years, Iraqis have looked to the American legal system to provide justice for what they believe were war crimes committed by Americans, and most of the time, many say, they have been disappointed. This time was no exception.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/25/world/middleeast/anger-in-iraq-after-plea-bargain-over-haditha-killings.html?_r=1

[Giovanni]

I dont necessarily disagree with the sentence.

The problem is that these harsh sentences aren't working.

But that's because you can buy a gun in target.

[BIGdavalad]

We definitely weren't allowed to do that.

[El Campeador]

We definitely weren't allowed to do that.

You never know till you try

Soldier Gets Seven-Month Sentence In Iraq Murder Case

VILSECK, Germany — A U.S. soldier pleaded guilty to conspiracy to murder and was sentenced to seven months in prison Thursday in the deaths of four Iraqis, saying he stood guard from a machine-gun turret while the bound men were shot.

The relatively lenient sentence for Spc. Belmor Ramos was part of a deal that will see him testify against others alleged to have been involved in the killings last year.

The four unidentified Iraqi men were bound, blindfolded, shot in the head and dumped in a Baghdad canal between 10 March and 16 April 2007 _ killings prosecutors said were in retribution for casualties in Ramos' unit at the time.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/18/soldier-gets-seven-month_n_127499.html

[BIGdavalad]

In both cases the people convicted don't appear to have actually killed anyone themselves and the second one appears to have been a plea bargain because he testified against the others.

I won't be able to try, thankfully I've got no reason to ever have to see that dump again.

[El Campeador]

In both cases the people convicted don't appear to have actually killed anyone themselves and the second one appears to have been a plea bargain because he testified against the others.

I won't be able to try, thankfully I've got no reason to ever have to see that dump again.

It is worthwhile to note that noone got 160+ years for the murders of 24 Iraqis, but that the "ringleader" stood accused of 152 years for manslaugher until he rolled over on his direct reports. Noone served anywhere near a century and a half for 24 dead civilians.

It is also worthwhile to note that everyone rolled over on the "armed" robber to get lighter sentences. Noone else has corroborated the accusation that he carried and/or discharged a weapon besides the guys that cut plea deals.

But of course, who cares, the guy's black, and this is America. Lock him up and throw away the key.

[BIGdavalad]

But of course, who cares, the guy's black, and this is America. Lock him up and throw away the key.

He's a black armed robber who has been convicted of a series of robberies and firing his weapon at least twice...

[Mumm-Ra]

It's a ridiculous sentence, he should do some serious time, minimally 10 years, but to throw away the key like that is just crazy.

[BIGdavalad]

It's a ridiculous sentence, he should do some serious time, minimally 10 years, but to throw away the key like that is just crazy.

They're not going to throw the key away silly. They'll be able to reuse that cell in 163 years. If they throw the key away they'd have to pay to get a locksmith out.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Yeah, but he didn't kill anyone. He's been convicted of armed robbery, not murder. If he had killed someone we wouldn't be having this argument becuase I'd accept the sentence.

He discharged his weapon at a dog. And missed. Perhaps that shot would could have hit a kid or a passer by. It mentioned that he went tooled up and was happy to use his weapon.

If he'd done it once or even twice then maybe you have a point. But he did it again and again and again and again and again and again and again. If he'd got a short sentence then obviously he was going to do it again.

Perhaps the length of his sentence will deter others from being twats. 

EDIT: Just read he had a shootout with someone at a restaurant as well. He's a very naughty boy and has been treated as such. Case closed. Dude.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Yeah I know that. It's not the fact that he feels he's been hard done by that I've got issue with. It's the fact that I don't agree with the sentence in the first place.

What sentence do you think is appropriate for a career criminal that commits countless armed robberies and is happy to shoot at society when the mood takes him?

What price would you put on a life? Say they gave him five years and he came out, robbed a shop and murdered a few people.

I take it you couldn't give a shit about these stupid dead people because your idea of justice has been served?

[dimitri]

What sentence have the bankers got for getting us in this mess??

[El Campeador]

Sheriffs’ delight

While local officials cash in, convicts lose out

http://www.economist.com/node/21556929

EVEN in a country with the world’s highest incarceration rate, Louisiana is extreme. The state imprisons 26% more people, on a per-capita basis, than the next-strictest state, Mississippi. Louisiana’s incarceration rate is almost six times Maine’s and seven times China’s.
 
This is no accident. A confluence of political and economic factors has made Louisiana what it is, as the Times-Picayune, New Orleans’s daily newspaper, showed in painstaking detail in a recent eight-day series called “Louisiana Incarcerated”.

Some of those factors are obvious. Louisiana is poor, and has a high crime rate. Violent crime is particularly common. Its citizens, meanwhile, are politically conservative and tend to favour harsh punishment for wrongdoers. Sentencing laws have become steadily more ferocious.
 
But that is true of several states. What really makes Louisiana stand out is that it has built a system that pays local sheriffs to lock people up, making reform almost impossible. Louisiana’s experience should be closely studied in California, as that state embarks on its new plan to farm imprisonment out to local officials.
 
As in California last year, federal judges ruled in the 1970s that Louisiana’s prisons were so overcrowded that they violated the federal constitution. The state sought to cure the problem by encouraging local sheriffs to build more cells, in part by promising that a certain portion of them would be filled. That set off a building boom. Today—to a degree unprecedented in America—the system relies heavily on those sheriffs to house and feed convicts.
 
In most states, the vast majority of people convicted of crimes are sent to state-run prisons. In Louisiana 52% of prisoners while away their time in local jails, typically run by rural sheriffs. That is ten times the national average.
 
This matters because the state pays the local jailers, as well as a handful of private prison operators, just $24.39 a day for each inmate in their care. That is less than half what Louisiana spends on inmates in state-run prisons, and it is barely a third of what even relatively poor states like West Virginia spend.
 
And even that paltry amount of money is not all spent on prisoner care. The only way Louisiana’s local sheriffs and private-prison operators can make a profit on the per-diem payment is to skimp on costs. This means bad food, limited supervision and no vocational programmes. For a sheriff, that money is more usefully spent on more deputies, higher salaries and better equipment. Tiny Richland Parish, in the north of the state, had 60 sheriff’s deputies before the prison gold rush. Today there are 160, not to mention new shotguns, cars and bulletproof gear.
 
Prisoners have not fared well. One of the cruellest ironies of Louisiana’s prison system is that the state jails—which tend to house people serving lengthy sentences—do much more to prepare inmates for life outside. But a man serving a ten-year stretch is apt to cool his heels in a local jail, with nothing offered in the way of rehabilitation. He will get out with $10, a bus ticket, and not much else. The chances are that he will resume his life of crime. And somewhere in Louisiana, a sheriff will smile.

[El Campeador]

What sentence do you think is appropriate for a career criminal that commits countless armed robberies and is happy to shoot at society when the mood takes him?

He was 18 when he was convicted, so I don't think the word "career" applies - except if you want to talk about the fact that he will not ever have one.

He was also convicted based solely on the testimony of his co-conspirators, who all got vastly reduced sentences for saving their own skin.

What price would you put on a life? Say they gave him five years and he came out, robbed a shop and murdered a few people.

Say they gave him 20, and concentrated on providing more money towards rehabilitation and parole so that I wouldn't have to pay for some fat fucking sherriff's pimped out ride in the taxes it "costs" to lock up teenagers for the rest of their lives.

[Andy @ Allerton]

He will get out with $10, a bus ticket, and not much else. The chances are that he will resume his life of crime. And somewhere in Louisiana, a sheriff will smile.

So is that arguing that longer terms are better in the long run?

[Andy @ Allerton]

He was 18 when he was convicted, so I don't think the word "career" applies - except if you want to talk about the fact that he will not ever have one.

He was also convicted based solely on the testimony of his co-conspirators, who all got vastly reduced sentences for saving their own skin.

Say they gave him 20, and concentrated on providing more money towards rehabilitation and parole so that I wouldn't have to pay for some fat fucking sherriff's pimped out ride in the taxes it "costs" to lock up teenagers for the rest of their lives.

How else would you describe someone that has performed many armed robberies?

It sounds more luck than anything that he hadn't killed anyone when he finally got nicked.

[Anywhichwayucan]

Far bigger issue, than just one lad getting sentenced to 162 years.

A lot of things need to change in the States, and elsewhere, otherwise we'll continue going around in circles.

[Immoral King Brian Blessed]

How else would you describe someone that has performed many armed robberies?

It sounds more luck than anything that he hadn't killed anyone when he finally got nicked.

A serial armed robber. He's a career convict.

[Andy @ Allerton]

A serial armed robber. He's a career convict.

[RojoLeón]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings

The Mahmudiyah killings and gang-rape of a 14-year-old girl by U.S. troops occurred on March 12, 2006, in a house to the southwest of Yusufiyah, a village to the west of the town of Al-Mahmudiyah, Iraq. Five United States Army soldiers of the 502nd Infantry Regiment were charged with the crimes: (i) Sgt. Paul E. Cortez, (ii) Spc. James P. Barker, (iii) Pfc. Jesse V. Spielman, (iv) Pfc. Brian L. Howard and (v) Pfc. Steven D. Green (whom the army discharged before the crime's discovery). Abeer Qasim Hamza, 14, was raped and murdered, after her family was murdered: her mother, Fakhriyah Taha Muhsin, 34; father, Qasim Hamza Raheem, 45; and six-year-old sister Hadeel Qasim Hamza.[1] Spielman and Green have been convicted and three others have pleaded guilty.[2]

Five soldiers of the six-man unit responsible for the checkpoint left their posts for the Qasim farmhouse.[11] (The sixth, Sergeant Anthony W. Yribe, was charged with failing to report the attack but did not otherwise participate). Of the five, four of the soldiers were alleged to have directly perpetrated the attack, while Howard acted as lookout. In broad daylight, they walked to the house (not wearing their uniforms)[12] and separated Abeer and her family into two different rooms. Green then murdered her parents and younger sister, while two other soldiers raped Abeer. Green then emerged from the room saying "I just killed them, all are dead".[13] He then raped Abeer and shot her in the head. After the rape the lower part of Abeer’s body, from her stomach down to her feet, was set on fire.

On May 7, 2009, Green was found guilty by the federal court in Kentucky of rape and multiple counts of murder.[2] While prosecutors sought the death penalty in this case, jurors failed to agree unanimously on that outcome.[29] On September 4, 2009, Green was formally sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole.[30] He is being held in the United States Penitentiary in Tucson, Arizona.

James P. Barker

On November 15, 2006, Specialist Barker pleaded guilty to rape and murder as part of a plea agreement requiring him to give evidence against the other soldiers to avoid the death penalty. He was sentenced to 90 years in prison, and must serve 20 years before being considered for parole. He wept during closing statements, and accepted responsibility for the rape and killings, saying the violence he had encountered in Iraq left him "angry and mean" toward Iraqis.[47] Despite this show of emotion during closing arguments, Barker showed no such emotion afterward. Journalists reported "he smoked a cigarette outside as a bailiff watched over him. He grinned but said nothing as reporters passed by."[48]

He is currently held in the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.[49]
Paul E. Cortez

On January 22, 2007, Cortez pleaded guilty in a court martial to rape, conspiracy to rape, and four counts of murder as part of a plea deal to avoid the death penalty, and was sentenced to 100 years in prison.[50] He will be eligible for parole in 10 years. Cortez, 24, also was given a dishonorable discharge. He wept as he apologized for the crimes, saying he could not explain why he took part.[51]

He is currently held in the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.[49]
Jesse V. Spielman
Pfc. Jesse V. Spielman

On August 3, 2007, Private First Class Jesse V. Spielman, 23, was sentenced by a court martial to 110 years in prison, with the possibility of parole after 10 years. He was convicted of rape, conspiracy to commit rape, housebreaking with intent to rape and four counts of felony murder. He had earlier pleaded guilty to lesser charges of conspiracy to obstructing justice, arson, wrongfully touching a corpse and drinking.[52]

Spielman is currently held in the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.[49]
Bryan L. Howard

Private First Class Bryan L. Howard was sentenced by a court martial under a plea agreement to dishonorable discharge and 27 months' imprisonment for obstruction of justice and being an accessory after the fact. The court found that his involvement included hearing the others discussing the crime and lying to protect them, but not commission of the actual rape or murders.[53][54]

Howard was given a dishonorable discharge, received a 27-month sentence, and is currently on parole.[49]
Anthony W. Yribe

Initially Sergeant Anthony W. Yribe was charged with obstructing the investigation, specifically, dereliction of duty and making a false statement. He negotiated an "other than honorable discharge" and the dropping of the charges against him in return for his testimony against the other men.[49][55][56]

Compared with

Davis would occupy no place at all in the annals of crime if not for his sentence. Now 20 years old, he was sentenced to 1,941 months - almost 162 years - in prison without the possibility of parole.

[Barney_Rubble]

Apples

compared to

Oranges

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

Stupidly harsh sentence to be honest. Give the bloke some time by all means but thats just a piss take.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

compared to

How exactly?

[corkboy]

I am finding it hard to believe you are all still talking about one (bizarre) bit of sentencing when the rest of the OP is genuinely shocking. The world's richest, chock-full-o-freedom country also has the highest proportion of people in jail, and they are largely black or Hispanic. Add to that the fact that the prisons turn huge profits while inmates are used for slave labour and you realise the story here isn't some fucking idiot knocking off shops with a gun he probably couldn't use. America has turned jailing into a profitable and racist business. And the oil in the machine is the War on Drugs.

I hate to sound like one of these "wake up, people" guys but it is truly astonishing what is going on in plain sight in the Greatest Country on Earth.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

Would the fact be that they are mostly black or Hispanics in jail because mostly Black or Hispanics have been caught doing dodgy shit? Is it really racism?

[El Campeador]

I was wondering what kept you.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

I was wondering what kept you.

Was this for me?

[corkboy]

Would the fact be that they are mostly black or Hispanics in jail because mostly Black or Hispanics have been caught doing dodgy shit? Is it really racism?

Well, as an example, up until quite recently, there were completely different tariffs for crack and powder cocaine, as in ten times the jail term, sort of thing, despite the fact that they are basically the same thing. As you can imagine, hitting the crack market would tend to turn out more blacks and Hispanics.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

I know nothing about drugs to be honest mate so i cant comment but why would crack be more likely to be used by blacks etc as opposed to powder?

[Sammy5IsAlive]

I know nothing about drugs to be honest mate so i cant comment but why would crack be more likely to be used by blacks etc as opposed to powder?

cheaper mate.

[Circa1892]

So he'll be out at the back end of the 24th century, by which time he'll have been transferred to a prison cell on a distant planet.

[Conocinico]

I take it you couldn't give a shit about these stupid dead people because your idea of justice has been served?

What stupid dead people, the ones in your head? No, why would anybody care about them?

[RojoLeón]

What stupid dead people, the ones in your head? No, why would anybody care about them?

To be fair to Andy, he has special gifts: what goes on in reality, and what goes on in his head are interchangeable and often one and the same, from his perspective.

[El Campeador]

Was this for me?

No - for corkboy, and he happens to be right. The incarceration statistics here are shocking.

America has 5% of the world’s population but almost 25% of global prisoners, with the world’s largest number of inmates and highest per capita rate of incarceration. Florida's prisons budget is over $2 billion a year, and California spends more than 5 times that amount. The prisons are overcrowded, sometimes hosting triple their designed capacity. The inmates are overwhelmingly black and Latino, who come from poor communities where education dollars have already been spent on prisons in next years' budget. Little or no funds are set aside for rehabilitation or future job training, which usually means a revolving prison door.

It's also an extremely biased and hypocritical system - those (usually white) folks who can afford fancy lawyers and nice looking suits usually have a better chance at a reduced sentence than the poor black kids who can't read and are stuck with public defenders who just don't give a shit.

Throwing harsh sentences and incarcerating everyone around clearly hasn't worked - otherwise, America would be the safest place on earth, and we'd have no more need for prisons.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

Thats some serious money but it dont seem to be working so why keep throwing money at a failing system? What other options are there over there?