Topic: "Spain are boring"

[MOZ]

If Spain are boring, what the fuck are England? Even in the less exciting games Spain have played some lovely football; we have become spoilt by them and the whole debate has become stupid.

Roy Hodgson, England, the English media and the F.A. are boring, not Spain.

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

Spain aren't boring.

People just can't tell the difference between Spain having an off day and Spain being boring.

[Les Willis]

I think I voted for boring orginally, because I was slightly trolling. Spain had been below par for a number of the matches that I'd seen, they seemed to be playing with no striker for a lot of the time, which I thought was unduly negative. So, maybe they weren't boring, but they weren't exactly Holland 1974 or Brazil 1970 either.

Anyway, in the final, they seemed to find an extra couple of gears and really were pretty much perfection personified. They probably are the best International team since those two other sides mentioned (maybe Brazil 1982 deserve a mention too).

[MidwestWool]

They've been below par because there has been no-one to challenge them thoroughly. Played all matches but one in second gear, got a lucky escape against Portugal and Del Bosque asked them to step it up a notch. And we saw that today.

Think it also helped that Italy didn't sit back and attacked them, which gave them a chance to display their deadly counter-attacks, which were hard to cope with.

[Mr Dilkington]

I can see why people have come to the conclusion that Spain are boring, and I'm not gonna ridicule those hold that opinion. I mean, I disagree with it, but It's certainly not black and white.

Spain have been in second gear for much of this tournament. Against Italy they played well in spells but the Italians came up with a formation to stifle the Spaniards. Ireland, well it was Ireland and they got loads of space. Still a great performance like, but Ireland were so so limited in almost every sense. Against Croatia they seemed content with the draw, they kept loads of the ball and relied on a couple of World class saves from Iker Casillas. The quarters against France... well that was more a story about a lack of ambition and options from the French. Spain got their early goal and then they suffocated the game and saw it out fairly comfortably. The Portugal game was just a bore fest, plain and simple. Again Spain didn't really have the required tempo to their play. Pepe and Alves were fairly content defending deep and Coentrao played the game of his life. Penalties was the only thing that separated the two. Then there was the final... The first time that Spain actually came out of second gear bar the Ireland game was tonight. I thought they started well, and the early goal really did kill Italy's resolve. If you concede early doors against Spain then you're in massive trouble. I thought after the goal Spain tried to go back to their defending deep with possession, but Italy pushed higher up the field than any other team had against them the whole tournament and to be fair they carved out a couple of half chances. Then just before half time Spain kind of woke up and regained some sort of control. The goal before half time totally finished things for the Italians. It was just a brilliant piece of play from Alba, and also Xavi who played the pass at the right time (obviously). There was absolutely no sign of danger when Alba picked up the ball, but such was his confidence and desire he made something of it and he finished it like a winger (funny that!).

The second half was just a procession really. I think Spain just wanted to up their pass stats and make sure they finished the game with greater possession. The fact they took Torres and Mata off the bench kind of summed up why they're so successful.

I do think they could have been better though. As solid as Arbeloa is, and he is really, really solid, he isn't anywhere near as productive as Sergio Ramos is going forward. I think a fit Carles Puyol would have made Spain more fluent, or even Martinez dropping in beside Pique. Villa was obviously a massive miss, and whilst they had four very good strikers, they don't have another World class striker of the calibre of Villa.

Would have liked to have seen Adrian and/or Muniain in the squad in place of Soldado or someone.

That's another thing - Spain have such a great batch of young players who are winning things at under 21, 19, 17 level. That will get them in the habit, and I'm sure they want to be a part of this generation of players.

The likes of De Gea, Montoya, Romeu, Muniain, Thiago, Isco, Canales, Adrian, Alcacer, Grimaldo are all hugely talented too, amongst many more.

There's loads to debate about in regard to Spain, but I think it's important to appreciate them all the same. This is once in a lifetime stuff.

[CarraG238]

The question isn't whether Spain is boring or not.

The question is if there's any national side in the world that can stop them for winning the World Cup in Brazil. Maybe age will slow down the likes of Xavi and Iniesta, but the Spanish have a conveyor belt of talent coming through. Scary how good they'll be for the foreseeable future.

[Xxavi]

Yes, Spain are boring. That was my answer, and I stand by it.

But boring here has a deep meaning. It's more entertaining than what England plays at, but considering the squad, their games at both World Cup and Euro Cup under Del Bosque have been quite boring. Except for the final game that is, and games here and there. In fact, I think criticism they got for the Euro games and the accusations they received forced them in a way to be more attacking in the final game. They have been asked 100s of questions about them being boring, they read Spanish media, which declared them boring as well. So I think they have been forced to be more attacking. And look what we have in hands, absolutely dismantled Italy. They are just that much better than Italy, and others.

Put it this way, not a single Italian player would get into Spanish 11. Not one. And why did first game finish 1-1? Not one single Croatian played get into Spanish team, why was it a cagey, cautious game with a 1-0 win at the end? Look back to World Cup, when Spain were similarly cautious vs the likes of Honduras, Chile and Paraguay.

It's all Del Bosque's cautious tactics. 2 defensive midfields is a must for him after that Swiss 1-0 win. He is more concerned about not conceding, and he is even ready to accept 50/50 penalties, like in Portugal game where he wouldn't change 4-6-0 formation up until penalties. That's what he is. There were loads of times when Navas etc. had brilliant opportunity for a fast counter or a cross into the box, but there was nobody there, so he had to pass back. Not only Del Bosque is playing 2 defensive midfielders, but he also is not encouraging going up forward into the penalty area. His idea is clear, strangle the opposition without the ball, and score 1 goal, and finish the game. He wouldn't mind more, but not at the expense of a risk. It does work, but it doesn't mean it cannot work otherwise.

Key here is the fact that Spain adopted Barca's possession football with Aragones. But Barca has some very important differences with Spain, especially since Del Bosque took over. Barca plays only one defensive midfielder, and are willing to take a risk against anyone, be it Real Madrid or Chelsea. Barca never pass around the ball after 1-0 for 70 minutes, they always go for 2nd, 3rd etc. When Barca attack, there are always 4-5 players in the box. Always. There may not be crosses, but penalty area is 99% of times crowded. The idea is to keep the ball to attack and score. But Del Bosque quite often wants Spain to keep the ball to waste time and defend.

So yes, Spain are boring. Much more boring than what they can show. I hate to see Spain doing absolutely nothing with the ball. But in a way, I can understand Del Bosque as well. He has won the world cup and euro cup with this attitude. When he tried to have a relaxed attacking Spain, Portugal and Argentina each scored 4 past Spain, and Italy won 2-1. Swiss won 1-0 as well. So he got his lessons for being too open and less controlling. I am sure he'd rather strangle teams 1-0 than try to get a 4-0 and get a 2-1 loss instead.

[Kovai Red]

That kind of slow passing also helps them to keep the squad fresh especially when they are in a tournament where they have to play a game almost every 3 days.

[GBF]

Fabregas: "Are we boring? People who think we are boring, I don't think they understand the game."

his old muppet boss thinks they play negative football.  Very strange that people these days call pass and move boring.  People are very strange these days

[Fat Scouser]

Fantastic football. Fantastic footballers. Knobhead Ingurlish pundits and media. Knobhead Ingurlish fans falling for it.

[Malaysian Kopite]

That kind of slow passing also helps them to keep the squad fresh especially when they are in a tournament where they have to play a game almost every 3 days.

Their passing isn't slow at all. They move the ball at a very high tempo.

[Alf]

They won the trophy if people want entertainment then go the circus. Football is a results business.

[Kovai Red]

Their passing isn't slow at all. They move the ball at a very high tempo.

But they do less running than other teams. What they do is pass-pass-pass, etc.. and their players always get into positions to receive the ball. Their team movement towards the goal is slow during most of the time (thats why they have more possession) especially when the opponent team sits back. The keep the ball in the midfield until the attacking players move into the better positions. Until then they pass between themselves. The ball is fed to the wide forwards who then look to their CF/False9 or whoever for thier movements. If they are able to find a way to pass it to him, they pass or they pass it back to midfield and run into other spaces. Their attacking players just wait for right moment to move into the spaces and when they go into the space with a sudden burst of space, their passmasters make those killer passes. They up their tempo only when they find space in their attacking third. This is just like a Tiger waiting for its prey. Compare this to the German tactics. They too pass the ball but they are fast in their team movement towards the goal and there are more chances of misplacing passes because of this. Yes they were successful, but Spanish movement much more foolproof than the Germans. When the Spanish team presses for the goal, their game is different and similar to the German attack and because the Spanish has more superior talent, their game looks more beautiful when they attack and score. This kind of strategy helps them in preserving their energy. Wait-Attack-Wait-Attack and that waiting period makes it look like boring.

[helmboy_nige]

Ironically, Spain have been boring this whole tournament... right up until it mattered yesterday.  Awesome against Italy and thoroughly deserved.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

The key difference is that when faced with a disciplined defensive unit and a team that is determined to keep its defensive shape which, Ireland excepted, Spain have been in pretty much every game they have played in this tournament most sides would keep delivering the ball into the box for runners or the big centre forward. They would then play the percentages that one on or two of these occasions they would get the better of their marker and create something.

Spain are content to retain possession move the other side around and wait until they are able to create an opening.  Only when they think there is a proper opportunity to hit their own man and retain the ball will they make that final pass.  If they are not quite on song, or as in the case of Portugal there opponents show incredible defensive discipline and organisation then this can lead to them playing few balls into the box and creating few chances and half chances. Pinning opponents in their own half and retaining possession with clever intricate passing is never boring though. If it is then I hope that Brenno builds a team that bores the pants of some of you.

[-Q-]

If it is then I hope that Brenno builds a team that bores the pants of some of you.

Exactly, I hope we are half as boring as Spain.

I think you've identified potential difficulty against the likes of Stoke at home though, I can see us having problems breaking these sides down.  I'm not sure many teams went to the Liberty to park the bus.

[vicgill]

Fantastic football. Fantastic footballers. Knobhead Ingurlish pundits and media. Knobhead Ingurlish fans falling for it.

so very well said.

[vicgill]

Their passing isn't slow at all. They move the ball at a very high tempo.

I think it´s too difficult for him to understand

[Johnny Foreigner]

Spain of today is looking like another red machine - the Soviet ice hockey team of the 80's..

Technical and tactical supremacy; but slowly killing the interest until the other teams rises to the challenge..

[Smudgester]

English pundits are just jealous cos there is no way in hell England are ever going to play anywhere near as good - certainly with their current manager.

Anybody claiming Spain are boring is clearly a muppet. A team that that wins a tournament quite easily whilst playing a '4-6-0 formation' for the vast majority of the time can hardly be described as boring.

[SMASHerano]

Yes, Spain are boring. That was my answer, and I stand by it.

But boring here has a deep meaning. It's more entertaining than what England plays at, but considering the squad, their games at both World Cup and Euro Cup under Del Bosque have been quite boring. Except for the final game that is, and games here and there. In fact, I think criticism they got for the Euro games and the accusations they received forced them in a way to be more attacking in the final game. They have been asked 100s of questions about them being boring, they read Spanish media, which declared them boring as well. So I think they have been forced to be more attacking. And look what we have in hands, absolutely dismantled Italy. They are just that much better than Italy, and others.

Put it this way, not a single Italian player would get into Spanish 11. Not one. And why did first game finish 1-1? Not one single Croatian played get into Spanish team, why was it a cagey, cautious game with a 1-0 win at the end? Look back to World Cup, when Spain were similarly cautious vs the likes of Honduras, Chile and Paraguay.

It's all Del Bosque's cautious tactics. 2 defensive midfields is a must for him after that Swiss 1-0 win. He is more concerned about not conceding, and he is even ready to accept 50/50 penalties, like in Portugal game where he wouldn't change 4-6-0 formation up until penalties. That's what he is. There were loads of times when Navas etc. had brilliant opportunity for a fast counter or a cross into the box, but there was nobody there, so he had to pass back. Not only Del Bosque is playing 2 defensive midfielders, but he also is not encouraging going up forward into the penalty area. His idea is clear, strangle the opposition without the ball, and score 1 goal, and finish the game. He wouldn't mind more, but not at the expense of a risk. It does work, but it doesn't mean it cannot work otherwise.

Key here is the fact that Spain adopted Barca's possession football with Aragones. But Barca has some very important differences with Spain, especially since Del Bosque took over. Barca plays only one defensive midfielder, and are willing to take a risk against anyone, be it Real Madrid or Chelsea. Barca never pass around the ball after 1-0 for 70 minutes, they always go for 2nd, 3rd etc. When Barca attack, there are always 4-5 players in the box. Always. There may not be crosses, but penalty area is 99% of times crowded. The idea is to keep the ball to attack and score. But Del Bosque quite often wants Spain to keep the ball to waste time and defend.

So yes, Spain are boring. Much more boring than what they can show. I hate to see Spain doing absolutely nothing with the ball. But in a way, I can understand Del Bosque as well. He has won the world cup and euro cup with this attitude. When he tried to have a relaxed attacking Spain, Portugal and Argentina each scored 4 past Spain, and Italy won 2-1. Swiss won 1-0 as well. So he got his lessons for being too open and less controlling. I am sure he'd rather strangle teams 1-0 than try to get a 4-0 and get a 2-1 loss instead.

This is an Excellent post.

[stevensr123]

Spain are not boring, howeve a lot of times thy make the matches they play in boring, because most of the time they are the ones in possession and control, so for large periods of their matches, the opposition don't have the ball, and when they have the ball, they can't do fuck All with it.


So I would say, Spain play beautiful football, but that beautiful football often makes matches look stale, boring an slow, with not a lot happening unless Spain start scoring 3-4 goals like they usually do.

It's not often you get a 3-2 thrilla or end to end football in matches Spain are in. And that's often what people want in a match ( as a neutral), end to end exciting stuff from both teams.

[exiledinyorkshire]

so there we go then. When played poorly by a team not in a particularly "good moment" against sides with limited intent, "ticky tacker" as played by spain is at worst functional and a little dull but at best, totally effective grinding, winning football. The kind of football that the average premier league follower would class as boring. however when played by a team with a point to prove to the world, against a side who genuinely( and italy were very good this tournament) think they have a chance to actually outplay Spain, it is FUCKING AWSOME.

Blame not Spain for the nature of the game. If sides came to the party and tried to bravely play as Italy did, then we would see more football matches like last night. They are so good now that they would and could do that to anybody who fancied their chances. When playing even sides like portugal, who were rightly lauded for their performance, its interesting to note that even then they had the best chances and portugal created next to nothing.

It's Spains preponderance of "top notch" players that allows them to shift gear like they did last night and wipe the floor with a Superb Italy side. Spain were top of every measure of stats for the tournament. Most goals, most clean sheets, most passes and most tackles. They won this tournament convincingly even if at times they didnt play that well.

My only caution here is that Liverpool perhaps doesnt have the top notch players to play this way at the very highest level................... we can maybe expected a fair bit of the boring this coming season. Still i'd rather try for the exquisite and come up boring than go straight for the purely functional. Cant wait to see this unfold.

[vicgill]

so there we go then. When played poorly by a team not in a particularly "good moment" against sides with limited intent, "ticky tacker" as played by spain is at worst functional and a little dull but at best, totally effective grinding, winning football. The kind of football that the average premier league follower would class as boring. however when played by a team with a point to prove to the world, against a side who genuinely( and italy were very good this tournament) think they have a chance to actually outplay Spain, it is FUCKING AWSOME.

Blame not Spain for the nature of the game. If sides came to the party and tried to bravely play as Italy did, then we would see more football matches like last night. They are so good now that they would and could do that to anybody who fancied their chances. When playing even sides like portugal, who were rightly lauded for their performance, its interesting to note that even then they had the best chances and portugal created next to nothing.

It's Spains preponderance of "top notch" players that allows them to shift gear like they did last night and wipe the floor with a Superb Italy side. Spain were top of every measure of stats for the tournament. Most goals, most clean sheets, most passes and most tackles. They won this tournament convincingly even if at times they didnt play that well.

My only caution here is that Liverpool perhaps doesnt have the top notch players to play this way at the very highest level................... we can maybe expected a fair bit of the boring this coming season. Still i'd rather try for the exquisite and come up boring than go straight for the purely functional. Cant wait to see this unfold.

Totally agree with you mate, except about needing top notch players, a good coach can make average players play like that, it is basicly pass and move

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Totally agree with you mate, except about needing top notch players, a good coach can make average players play like that, it is basicly pass and move

It would be tricky to get any average player to play at the level of the freakily talented midfield, however Brendan Rodgers showed at Anfield that with the right coaching a group of players can become good enough to dominate possession against players who are theoretically far better than they are.

[Phil M]

It would be tricky to get any average player to play at the level of the freakily talented midfield, however Brendan Rodgers showed at Anfield that with the right coaching a group of players can become good enough to dominate possession against players who are theoretically far better than they are.

I hope so mate. 

[Samee]

Yes, Spain are boring. That was my answer, and I stand by it.

But boring here has a deep meaning. It's more entertaining than what England plays at, but considering the squad, their games at both World Cup and Euro Cup under Del Bosque have been quite boring. Except for the final game that is, and games here and there. In fact, I think criticism they got for the Euro games and the accusations they received forced them in a way to be more attacking in the final game. They have been asked 100s of questions about them being boring, they read Spanish media, which declared them boring as well. So I think they have been forced to be more attacking. And look what we have in hands, absolutely dismantled Italy. They are just that much better than Italy, and others.

Put it this way, not a single Italian player would get into Spanish 11. Not one. And why did first game finish 1-1? Not one single Croatian played get into Spanish team, why was it a cagey, cautious game with a 1-0 win at the end? Look back to World Cup, when Spain were similarly cautious vs the likes of Honduras, Chile and Paraguay.

It's all Del Bosque's cautious tactics. 2 defensive midfields is a must for him after that Swiss 1-0 win. He is more concerned about not conceding, and he is even ready to accept 50/50 penalties, like in Portugal game where he wouldn't change 4-6-0 formation up until penalties. That's what he is. There were loads of times when Navas etc. had brilliant opportunity for a fast counter or a cross into the box, but there was nobody there, so he had to pass back. Not only Del Bosque is playing 2 defensive midfielders, but he also is not encouraging going up forward into the penalty area. His idea is clear, strangle the opposition without the ball, and score 1 goal, and finish the game. He wouldn't mind more, but not at the expense of a risk. It does work, but it doesn't mean it cannot work otherwise.

Key here is the fact that Spain adopted Barca's possession football with Aragones. But Barca has some very important differences with Spain, especially since Del Bosque took over. Barca plays only one defensive midfielder, and are willing to take a risk against anyone, be it Real Madrid or Chelsea. Barca never pass around the ball after 1-0 for 70 minutes, they always go for 2nd, 3rd etc. When Barca attack, there are always 4-5 players in the box. Always. There may not be crosses, but penalty area is 99% of times crowded. The idea is to keep the ball to attack and score. But Del Bosque quite often wants Spain to keep the ball to waste time and defend.

So yes, Spain are boring. Much more boring than what they can show. I hate to see Spain doing absolutely nothing with the ball. But in a way, I can understand Del Bosque as well. He has won the world cup and euro cup with this attitude. When he tried to have a relaxed attacking Spain, Portugal and Argentina each scored 4 past Spain, and Italy won 2-1. Swiss won 1-0 as well. So he got his lessons for being too open and less controlling. I am sure he'd rather strangle teams 1-0 than try to get a 4-0 and get a 2-1 loss instead.

This man, he gets it.

[Redallover11]

This man, he gets it.

For me it is not about the neutral.(you, me, the press) It's about winning one of the two hardest trophies in the world to win again and again.

If I am a neutral I can  watch the pick of games any Saturday or of the tournament. Chances are I will be watching my choice because it is going to be exciting and fun if that is what I am looking for(as a neutral) Also If I like a certain brand of football, example hitting long balls  into the box and watching a mad scramble with lots of goal mouth action and then a team galloping back  towards the other end,  that sounds exciting and fun and it usually is. As a matter of fact I can see that most of the time with a lot of my U8's.


But this is about playing within yourself and resting during a tournament and still being able to play to a level that only other sides can dream of. And  WIN. Xxavi does indeed get it, that they could be more cavalier. But then they would have to answer to critics and fans as to why did the manager  play into the hands of the opposition if results don't go their way as Xxavi points out against Argentina and Portugal .

If you have been lucky enough to play in a team that enjoys holding the ball and being patient, and frustrating the opposition it becomes so intoxicating. As opposed to players working very hard getting into position only to see the ball being given away to the oppo without any thought. It can be very frustrating.

An example of frustration for Spain would be Torres. Some of his early runs and movement rarely get rewarded and that can be very frustrating for him. However if the ball is played early the rest of the team is not in position to capitalize on his movement so it is usually not played.

The Spanish team is there to win a tournament it enters, not entertain the neutral, I am sure a Liverpool supporter would understand this. European away nights etc. It is important how the game is played but at that level it is about results and if you can win three tournaments in a row that other countries only dream of winning that amount in their entire countries history then go ahead and call it boring but it's not if you can understand what is at stake as the footballer out there and if you are a spanish fan. then to top it off the argument that what you are watching is boring because it is so technically brilliant and world class peers cannot even think about stripping you of possession and leaving themselves open to pure embarassment is out there also.

Ask a Spanish fan would they in the next world cup prefer if they won every game 3:2 but lost the final 0:4. I wonder what the poll would be there.

Also one last point that Xxavi mentions : I hate to see Spain doing absolutely nothing with the ball. I totally disagree, doing absolutely nothing with the ball is running , kicking the ball over to the opposition and trying to chase it/defend it again.

I wish and hope we can possess the ball  a fraction of like what I see the Spanish team do this year and build and build on it towards technical brilliance at LFC. And win and keep on winning with technical boring brilliance And let others match us rather than cutting down the tall poppy.

[Xxavi]

English pundits are just jealous cos there is no way in hell England are ever going to play anywhere near as good - certainly with their current manager.

Anybody claiming Spain are boring is clearly a muppet. A team that that wins a tournament quite easily whilst playing a '4-6-0 formation' for the vast majority of the time can hardly be described as boring.

It's not only the English media who declared them boring though. It's literally almost all countries, including Spain itself.

There's not much sugar coating to do here. Yes, they were always in control. They were rarely uncomfortable. But they could have played with more attacking style with such an array of talent. There's no doubt about it. Aragones' side did it, and current Spanish squad is not worse. Why not attack?

What baffles me most is that Spain can be cautious even against much worse sides, too. Paraguay? Honduras? Croatia?

[Y2J]

Yes, Spain are boring. That was my answer, and I stand by it.

But boring here has a deep meaning. It's more entertaining than what England plays at, but considering the squad, their games at both World Cup and Euro Cup under Del Bosque have been quite boring. Except for the final game that is, and games here and there. In fact, I think criticism they got for the Euro games and the accusations they received forced them in a way to be more attacking in the final game. They have been asked 100s of questions about them being boring, they read Spanish media, which declared them boring as well. So I think they have been forced to be more attacking. And look what we have in hands, absolutely dismantled Italy. They are just that much better than Italy, and others.

Put it this way, not a single Italian player would get into Spanish 11. Not one. And why did first game finish 1-1? Not one single Croatian played get into Spanish team, why was it a cagey, cautious game with a 1-0 win at the end? Look back to World Cup, when Spain were similarly cautious vs the likes of Honduras, Chile and Paraguay.

It's all Del Bosque's cautious tactics. 2 defensive midfields is a must for him after that Swiss 1-0 win. He is more concerned about not conceding, and he is even ready to accept 50/50 penalties, like in Portugal game where he wouldn't change 4-6-0 formation up until penalties. That's what he is. There were loads of times when Navas etc. had brilliant opportunity for a fast counter or a cross into the box, but there was nobody there, so he had to pass back. Not only Del Bosque is playing 2 defensive midfielders, but he also is not encouraging going up forward into the penalty area. His idea is clear, strangle the opposition without the ball, and score 1 goal, and finish the game. He wouldn't mind more, but not at the expense of a risk. It does work, but it doesn't mean it cannot work otherwise.

Key here is the fact that Spain adopted Barca's possession football with Aragones. But Barca has some very important differences with Spain, especially since Del Bosque took over. Barca plays only one defensive midfielder, and are willing to take a risk against anyone, be it Real Madrid or Chelsea. Barca never pass around the ball after 1-0 for 70 minutes, they always go for 2nd, 3rd etc. When Barca attack, there are always 4-5 players in the box. Always. There may not be crosses, but penalty area is 99% of times crowded. The idea is to keep the ball to attack and score. But Del Bosque quite often wants Spain to keep the ball to waste time and defend.

So yes, Spain are boring. Much more boring than what they can show. I hate to see Spain doing absolutely nothing with the ball. But in a way, I can understand Del Bosque as well. He has won the world cup and euro cup with this attitude. When he tried to have a relaxed attacking Spain, Portugal and Argentina each scored 4 past Spain, and Italy won 2-1. Swiss won 1-0 as well. So he got his lessons for being too open and less controlling. I am sure he'd rather strangle teams 1-0 than try to get a 4-0 and get a 2-1 loss instead.

I agree with most of this post aside from the part where you say no Italian player would get into the Spanish 11 or indeed Croatian, you're downgrading & hatred of Italian football is really becoming hilarious while I believe Modric would replace Alonso in the Spanish starting 11 with no problems.

[rowan_d]

I agree with most of this post aside from the part where you say no Italian player would get into the Spanish 11 or indeed Croatian, you're downgrading & hatred of Italian football is really becoming hilarious while I believe Modric would replace Alonso in the Spanish starting 11 with no problems.

Modric would occupy the position taken by Xavi, and doesn't have the defensive positional nous and consistent long passing ability as Xabi. Modric would not get into the Spanish first 11 imo

[Y2J]

Modric would occupy the position taken by Xavi, and doesn't have the defensive positional nous and consistent long passing ability as Xabi. Modric would not get into the Spanish first 11 imo

I believe Xabi's defensive positional nous is better, but Modric is a quicker player and can quickly cover himself by his speed. He won't take his place right now, but he'd offer a very fierce competitiveness for Xabi's place in the NT.

[Xxavi]

I believe Xabi's defensive positional nous is better, but Modric is a quicker player and can quickly cover himself by his speed. He won't take his place right now, but he'd offer a very fierce competitiveness for Xabi's place in the NT.

Rowan is correct. Xabi Alonso is a defensive midfielder in Spanish team, so Modric is either competing with Iniesta or Xavi in the center. I don't think he is close.

About Italian players, the same is true. The two arguments that could be made in this case is Buffon replacing Casillas and Pirlo replacing Xavi, Busquets, Alonso or Iniesta. The former, Buffon vs Casillas may be the closest argument, though I don't think Spain would want that change. Spain didn't concede in about 1000 minutes in knock out stages, Casillas saved 3-4 crucial penalties in penalty shootouts etc. Just no need, and it's still not clear who is the better.

As for the Pirlo vs Spanish midfield debate, I feel Pirlo has been overrated during this tourney. Well beyond what would be the usual hype. Busquets and Alonso are better defensive midfielders for me, and Pirlo isn't close to Xavi or Iniesta as a playmaker or attacking midfielder. One masterclass vs England made the hype around Pirlo ridiculous. He would be a bench player for Spain. This is the way I see it anyway. He may not have made the bench either, Del Bosque might have left him out like he did Raul. He doesn't call Raul even when Spain needs strikers.

But let's now hear you. Which Italian players would be starting for Spain? Why?

[MagicB8all]

Hope Spain continue to play well and win the world cup. I'd also love it if the next generation of Spanish stars could emulate this generstion.

[scatman]

I agree with most of this post aside from the part where you say no Italian player would get into the Spanish 11 or indeed Croatian, you're downgrading & hatred of Italian football is really becoming hilarious while I believe Modric would replace Alonso in the Spanish starting 11 with no problems.

he's right, no one would.

Busquets, Alonso, Iniesta and Xavi are the best players in the world in their positions. Pirlo is great and Modric is brilliant too, but neither would replace Busquets and Alonso.
I'd go as far as saying Busquets is better than Alonso at present.

[Phil M]

he's right, no one would.

Busquets, Alonso, Iniesta and Xavi are the best players in the world in their positions. Pirlo is great and Modric is brilliant too, but neither would replace Busquets and Alonso.
I'd go as far as saying Busquets is better than Alonso at present.

Alonso had a better tournament imo.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Well you're all disagreeing with our new manager.  In fact according to him you are being disrespectful.  This site could be fun to moderate for the next few seasons I think...

[Spanish Fan]

What baffles me most is that Spain can be cautious even against much worse sides, too. Paraguay? Honduras? Croatia?

Del Bosque played cagey football against Rexach's Barcelona with his Galacticos side in the 2002 Champions League, a Barcelona team by then so inferior to Real Madrid. So nothing to be baffled about. He is cautiousness personified.

When he coached the Galacticos he had a wonderful chance to do what Barca under Pep did , to thrill the world with outstanding attacking play in most games, but he chose not. Instead, the outstanding play of the galacticos at times came from their technical excellent, rather than from a system built to maximise their attacking play.

[scatman]

Alonso had a better tournament imo.

i think they both had a great tournament, but most of what Sergio and Alonso (apart from those sweeping long passes) isnt really noticed. Busquets seems to have all the attributes for even playing further up the pitch, but why would he when he's so brilliant where he is

[Phil M]

i think they both had a great tournament, but most of what Sergio and Alonso (apart from those sweeping long passes) isnt really noticed. Busquets seems to have all the attributes for even playing further up the pitch, but why would he when he's so brilliant where he is

In your opinion he's better than Alonso, I disagree but concur he's a fantastic player, it's quite subjective.
He (SB) rarely scores goals and isn't given set piece responsibility, Xabi is for example.